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Hey Professors, Pay Up [$10,000 for medical records proving the Bachmann HPV anecdote is true]
American Thinker ^ | 9/20/11 | Randall Hoven

Posted on 09/22/2011 10:13:51 AM PDT by ZGuy

As you might know, Michele Bachmann claimed that a woman came up to her, crying, saying that her child suffered mental retardation after being vaccinated for HPV. A couple of professors question her claim. The story is reported by Chris Moody.

Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann's story about a woman who claimed that her daughter suffered 'mental retardation' after receiving a vaccine against HPV could fetch the woman's family thousands of dollars. But the family can only collect if Bachmann or the unnamed woman can prove the story is true.

Two bioethics professors have offered to pay more than $10,000 for medical records that prove the anecdote Bachmann told after Monday night's Republican presidential debate is true[.]

I'd like to collect that $10,000 now, professors.

I ask the professors to look up a case in the CDC's VAERS database. Specifically, VAERS number 380440. The case was reported in Oregon on February 15, 2010. The patient was 12 years old. The symptoms in that case were reported in the VAERS database as follows. . .

The professors might also look up VAERS case number 396852. That case was reported in New York on August 8, 2010. The patient was 20 years old.

The professors might also look up VAERS case number 339718. That case was reported in Indiana on February 17, 2009. The patient was 13 years old.

Do I get my $10,000 yet?

As of June 22, 2011, approximately 35 million doses of Gardasil® were distributed in the U.S. and VAERS received a total of 18,727 reports of adverse events following Gardasil® vaccination. 8% were considered serious*...

*"Serious" means "hospitalization, permanent disability, life-threatening illness, congenital anomaly or death."

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Front Page News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bachmann; captaingardasil; elections; gardasil; hpv; perry; perrycare; protectingpatients
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1 posted on 09/22/2011 10:13:57 AM PDT by ZGuy
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To: SeekAndFind; indianrightwinger

Follow up to your earlier postings “Professors offer more than $10,000 for proof that Bachmann’s story about HPV is true”


2 posted on 09/22/2011 10:16:16 AM PDT by ZGuy
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To: ZGuy

Liberals NEVER pay up! They just claim that the contest was unfair.


3 posted on 09/22/2011 10:18:27 AM PDT by Mr. Jazzy (For God and country - Geronimo, Geronimo, Geronimo!)
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To: ZGuy
Guide to Interpreting VAERS Case Report Information

When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. Reports of all possible associations between vaccines and adverse events (possible side effects) are filed in VAERS. Therefore, VAERS collects data on any adverse event following vaccination, be it coincidental or truly caused by a vaccine. The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event.

http://vaers.hhs.gov/data/index

---------------------------------------------------

Randall Hoven should resign from the American Thinker, because he clearly wasn't thinking when he wrote that article.

4 posted on 09/22/2011 10:19:27 AM PDT by Carling (As of 9/12/11, FreeRepublic Is Now an Anti-Vaccine Community.)
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To: ZGuy

None of the cases cited in this article are Mental Retardation. They could be considered Brain Damage which is a far different thing. Mental retardation is a development problem, not a degenerative issue. Bachmann either had no idea what Mental Retardation was defined as in a clinical sense or she was going way over board. Both cases do not look good for her.


5 posted on 09/22/2011 10:24:21 AM PDT by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: ZGuy

correlation does not equal causation. Congratulations for flunking Basic Science 101

Now can we get a real medical expert to defend Michele?


6 posted on 09/22/2011 10:27:26 AM PDT by ari-freedom (Thank you, Bob!)
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To: ZGuy

Bachman’s only claim was that a woman came up to her and told her that story.

How could even think they could prove that wasn’t true?

Obama made dozens of wild claims about stories told to him by his ‘flock’ of adoring supporters, and no one in the media or academic profession even questioned it.


7 posted on 09/22/2011 10:27:48 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: ZGuy
I seem to recall a lot of so called FReepers attacking Mrs. Bachmann over this HPV stuff. Where are they now? I think the media rule of “Never let the facts get in the way of an attack on a consecutive” is still in effect.

I thought in this country that if someone makes a charge that it was up to them not their target to provide the proof. Now someone has actually gone looking for the truth and guess what......... (chirp ,,, chirp ... chirp)

8 posted on 09/22/2011 10:28:19 AM PDT by fella ("As it was before Noah, so shall it be again.")
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To: Carling

Also the VAERS system is a collection of the claims, not an evaluation of them. The evaluation is done by others.

Summary of HPV Adverse Event Reports Published in JAMA
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccines/HPV/jama.html

A CDC-FDA report analyzing adverse events following human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine administration from June 2006 through December 2008 is now published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) August 19, 2009 issue.

Of the 12,424 reports of adverse events, 772 (6% of all reports) described serious adverse events, including 32 reports of deaths.

The 32 death reports were reviewed and there was no common pattern to the deaths that would suggest they were caused by the vaccine. In cases where there was an autopsy, death certificate, or medical records, the cause of death could be explained by factors other than the vaccine. Some causes of death determined to date include diabetes, viral illness, illicit drug use, and heart failure.


9 posted on 09/22/2011 10:29:33 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Lazlo in PA

I think that the mixing of the terms Mental Retardation and Brain Damage are not that unusual for a layman.

For example, is Obama mentally retarded or brain damaged?


10 posted on 09/22/2011 10:30:28 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: ZGuy

(oops, currently undergoing minor brain damage)

How could ANYONE even think they could prove that wasn’t true?


11 posted on 09/22/2011 10:32:12 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: UCANSEE2
For example, is Obama mentally retarded or brain damaged?

Obviously Mentally Retarded. I can't see anywhere in his past or present where Obummers IQ was anywhere north of 70.

12 posted on 09/22/2011 10:40:06 AM PDT by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: ZGuy
Let me see, 19,000 out of 35,000,000 - that's .05%. Oh wait, only 8% were serious - that's a .004% occurrence.

I wonder what proportion of the general population had a “serious” event over the same time period...

13 posted on 09/22/2011 10:41:17 AM PDT by green iguana
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To: Lazlo in PA

For example, is Obama mentally retarded or brain damaged?

Obviously Mentally Retarded. I can’t see anywhere in his past or present where Obummers IQ was anywhere north of 70.


nah,he’s not retarded..he just need infrastuctual repairs to his cranium.


14 posted on 09/22/2011 10:45:04 AM PDT by Leep
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To: fella

If mandating HPV is so wrong...then we should eliminate the requirement for the measles, whooping cough and mumps vaccine? Why is HPV any different? All have the rare complication but all save lives so that kids can live to a normal life expectancy.

Was requiring the small pox vaccination so wrong? Geeze, I just don’t get the uproar. Small pox threat was finally eliminated...but without the vaccine it wouldn’t have happened.

Is the uproar because it is a sexually transmitted disease? I am puzzled.


15 posted on 09/22/2011 10:46:17 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: ZGuy
What is the woman who spoke with Bachmann in Tampa Florida's name?

Where is the medical report of her daughter's medical condition?

Brain damage doesn't equal mental retardation - neither case file shows any vaccination did cause or can cause mental retardation.

16 posted on 09/22/2011 10:48:48 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: Dudoight

“Is the uproar because it is a sexually transmitted disease? I am puzzled.”

Yup. Apparently any girl who made a mistake in her life should die a slow death from cancer for her sins.


17 posted on 09/22/2011 10:52:51 AM PDT by ari-freedom (Thank you, Bob!)
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To: Dudoight

Measles, mumps, pertussis immunizations protect children against diseases that can be transmitted at school, so the schools, and the state through public schools, have an interest in mandating those immunizations.

There is no way on earth that HPV should be transmitted at school.


18 posted on 09/22/2011 10:53:21 AM PDT by heartwood
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To: Dudoight

It’s different, because mumps, measles, and whooping cough were common illnesses. The HPV vaccine hasn’t been tested enough.


19 posted on 09/22/2011 10:54:51 AM PDT by Politics4US
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To: ZGuy

The unanswered question, to me, is whether or not Bachmann made an effort to verify the woman’s story before going public with it. It sounds for all the world as though she just accepted the story as gospel and rolled it out the next day. Such carelessness, if that was the case, could be used to damage a candidate’s credibility by setting her up with a phony claim.


20 posted on 09/22/2011 11:03:31 AM PDT by DPMD (~)
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To: heartwood

“There is no way on earth that HPV should be transmitted at school.”

You haven’t been paying attention. Even teachers are boffing their student’s at school. And todays 12-13 year old girls are not the same as those we knew growing up. This segment of the population no longer has a prevalence of virgins....and it happens at school as well as anywhere else.


21 posted on 09/22/2011 11:05:13 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: heartwood

Unless it’s a school run by a celebrity pay-to-play supporter of Obama’s who gropes girls and doesn’t get stopped before he does even worse, because Obama illegally fires and libels the inspector general who was investigating the situation...

In that kind of case you might have HPV being transmitted at school. But in such a case there are much bigger problems to be dealt with than HPV, and forcing every girl to be immunized is an admission that the school is overrun by perverts and the government refuses to protect these girls from a danger much greater than HPV.


22 posted on 09/22/2011 11:07:32 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: Politics4US

Neither has the meningitis vaccine been tested enough yet this is mandated in Texas for all college students. What is ‘tested enough’? (no one has protested this ‘mandate’).

That is a weak argument.


23 posted on 09/22/2011 11:08:23 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: Dudoight

Why should my daughters be punished because their peers are not virgins?


24 posted on 09/22/2011 11:09:17 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: fella
Now someone has actually gone looking for the truth

I don't doubt in the least that there is a mother somewhere in the US whose child suffered a serious mental side-effect from Gardasil.

I also find it quite plausible that that mother could have at some time communicated that to Michele Bachmann.

Notwithstanding the possible truth of both those events, my criticism of Bachmann is that she elevated that isolated event to a campaign issue without making any reference to checking the science.

25 posted on 09/22/2011 11:20:10 AM PDT by Notary Sojac (Nothing will cure the economy but debt deleveraging, deregulation, and time.)
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To: Dudoight

HPV is not an air-borne disease. There is specific behavior that is involved in the transmission of HPV. To mandate ANY insufficiently-tested injection is just plain wrong, but when it crosses over to injections to prevent disease that is caused by a specific behavior, that is the straw that breaks the camel’s back.

If there was an untested vaccine to prevent damage from cocaine use, should the government mandate that every 14-year-old be vaccinated? Would that be just a little more controversial than requiring vaccinations for tuburculosis? Why or why not? What might a 14-year-old girl think her government was telling her if it required her to be vaccinated against cocaine damage? What would it tell her about the limits of what her government can do to her?

In Nebraska we had a case where a woman allowed a con artist to do a gynecological exam on herself and her young daughters because the “salesman” told her that the government required an exam before he could sell his wares (can’t remember what he was selling). This mom believed that her government would require that of her, had no qualms with complying, and both she and her daughters stripped for the guy.

What does that tell you about the people’s view of their government? What does it tell you about our confidence that the Fourth Amendment actually means anything? What CAN’T the government do to us, for heaven’s sake? If the government orders us to the “showers” in large groups like cattle, would the people of America ever question whether that was beyond the government’s legitimate function?


26 posted on 09/22/2011 11:23:39 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: UCANSEE2
I think they wanted to hear from the woman who talked to MB. I do, too. And while the story (that a woman spoke to her) is probably true, it set off my BS meter anyway. It just had that "Perry killed the baby seals" sound to it, and it also sounded a lot like something a personal injury trial lawyer would say in front of a jury.

I don't think this offering fills the challenge.

27 posted on 09/22/2011 11:25:13 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: green iguana; ZGuy
Cervical Cancer Statistics - 2007

4,021 women in the United States died from cervical cancer

152,962,259 Female population in 2007

Dividing 4,021 by 159,962,259 and it is 0.00002% of the female population dying of cervical cancer.

Looks like deaths are lower than adverse reactions.

28 posted on 09/22/2011 11:25:30 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: butterdezillion

“Why should my daughters be punished because their peers are not virgins?”

1. There was an opt-out, so “punishment” would have taken place had you, the parent, opted out.

2. Perry stated they should have done it “opt-in”, not “opt-out”, so he acknowledged it being a mistake.

3. As demonstrated in post 13 in this thread, the serious occurrence rate was .004%. If you looked at all people who drink Sprite, for example, their serious occurrence rate would be very close to that. In other words, just by virtue of being alive there’s a .004% chance of something bad happening to you.


29 posted on 09/22/2011 11:27:45 AM PDT by jwb0581 (Borders, Language, Culture)
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To: DJ MacWoW

But that’s just for 2007. The vaccine covers you for more than just 1 year.


30 posted on 09/22/2011 11:28:51 AM PDT by jwb0581 (Borders, Language, Culture)
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To: ZGuy

Was the anecdote not that someone had come up to her after the debate and told her the story about her daughter becoming “mentally retarded” after receiving the vaccine?

This does nothing to corroborate that particular story.

(Though it wouldn’t surprise me if a possible side effect was some sort of brain damage.)


31 posted on 09/22/2011 11:30:47 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: DJ MacWoW

I’m pretty sure that 0 of the serious reactions observed after having the vaccine were for cervical cancer.


32 posted on 09/22/2011 11:30:55 AM PDT by green iguana
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To: Dudoight

Issue with HPV vaccine:

#1 - Do we really want to take the freedom for a person to choose what is best for their own medical care and place it in the hands of the State. If that is the case, what is to prevent the State from deciding what medicines you must or must not take? To classify vitamins as medicine or even food?

#2 - The HPV vaccine does not have the same volume of history that other vaccines have undergone. In fact, there are NO long term effects studies.

#3 - We do not yet know side interactions. I did not receive a small pox vaccine in the 60’s when I was a child due to possible interaction with a skin condition I had. We do not yet know these type of interactions with the HPV vaccine.

#4 - The HPV vaccine is not NECESSARY as the condition that it is reported to prevent is preventable by abstinence.


33 posted on 09/22/2011 11:32:03 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: jwb0581

Why should the government intervene in this issue with a mandate? The vaccination is available to anybody who wants it. Why should the government make any mandates at all - with or without opt-ins or opt-outs? Why not just allow parents to choose what market products they will use?


34 posted on 09/22/2011 11:32:17 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: Dudoight

But what if it’s your kid who has the adverse reaction? Are you going to grab a lawyer and sue whoever has the most money?


35 posted on 09/22/2011 11:32:28 AM PDT by fella ("As it was before Noah, so shall it be again.")
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To: Dudoight

People are going to die right away with meningitis if they don’t get a something.


36 posted on 09/22/2011 11:33:01 AM PDT by Politics4US
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To: ZGuy

(summary)

According to the CDC’s Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), the Gardasil vaccine causes some 12 serious adverse (life threatening) events per 100,000 vaccinated patients. (92% adverse reactions were considered to be non-serious, and 8% were considered serious, including permanent institutionalization, severe brain damage and death.)

The annual death rate for cervical cancer is 2 per 100,000 for white women, and 4 per 100,000 for black women, between the ages of 35-55. Mitigated by some 30% of cases not attributable to either strain of HPV.

Since mandatory vaccination with Gardasil would happen to a different group of girls annually, Gardasil is a greater threat for severe injury and death than is cervical cancer.


37 posted on 09/22/2011 11:34:39 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: ZGuy

bump


38 posted on 09/22/2011 11:35:14 AM PDT by lowbridge (Rep. Dingell: "Its taken a long time.....to control the people.")
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To: green iguana
if it is you that is affected then it is 100%. I notice many people presume that anything that does not affect them personally is not important at all.

And that boys and girls is how a Republic becomes an Marxist state.

39 posted on 09/22/2011 11:35:45 AM PDT by itsahoot (The MSM will not pick my candidate--I will still vote for Sarah Palin, even if she doesn't run.--)
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To: jwb0581
That is the deaths from cervical cancer for the year 2007. Do you think that it jumped in 2008?

My point is that the death rate is low to begin with. But adverse reactions to Gardasil are higher than the death rate.

40 posted on 09/22/2011 11:36:03 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: green iguana
That doesn't change the numbers. The death rate in 2007 was incredibly low. The reaction rate of Gardasil is higher.

Deaths are usually from women who did NOT get pap smears. That stat is on the CDC's site.

41 posted on 09/22/2011 11:38:09 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: Carling

“Randall Hoven should resign from the American Thinker, because he clearly wasn’t thinking when he wrote that article”

He is most likely, among those of the younger generations who have been “educated” (no matter their own political convictions), in many subjects, with teachers from whom the maxim “correlation is not causation” has been intentionally ignored, so as to promote “the severity of the charge” over the “accuracy and veracity of the evidence”.

The lack of heeding the warning of that maxim is epidemic in every area of American life, even in the “Conservative” media, even here on FreeRep.

To the AmericanThinker author just the association (correlation) of the HPV vaccine with specific entries in a database of POSSIBLE warnings, was conviction enough. I expect that type of thinking from Liberals without question; I always hope for better from Conservatives.

However, that still does NOT mean that Bachman was wrong, only that the author in the AmericanThinker did not lift up good evidence that she was right.


42 posted on 09/22/2011 11:43:50 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: butterdezillion

Dream on.


43 posted on 09/22/2011 11:44:18 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: fella

I got shredded for giving her the benefit of the doubt. I remember that thread.


44 posted on 09/22/2011 11:45:05 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: ari-freedom; Dudoight

“Is the uproar because it is a sexually transmitted disease? I am puzzled.”

Yup. Apparently any girl who made a mistake in her life should die a slow death from cancer for her sins.

***

Yes. Apparently, some tart who goes around being a ho, should get the HPV vaccine and live, and the nice girl who does her homework should die of a “rare complication”.


45 posted on 09/22/2011 11:48:03 AM PDT by ROTB (Christian sin breeds enemies for the USA. If you're a Christian, stop sinning, and spread the Word..)
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To: DJ MacWoW

No - the numbers I listed are not a reaction to Gardasil. They are the recorded numbers of women who had some form of non-accidental, serious health event after receiving the Gardasil vaccine. There is no causation implied in those numbers. However, it does give us a base percentage to compare versus the general population of women who did not have the vaccine, but who also had a non-accidental, serious health event over the same time peroid.

I don’t know what that percentage is, but the one for those receiving the vaccine is so low that I doubt there’s much difference.


46 posted on 09/22/2011 11:48:36 AM PDT by green iguana
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To: taxcontrol

Tell that to the over 1000 women who died of cervical cancer in Texas in 2009.

18,000 were diagnosed with early stages, had to go through surgery.

Out of 111,000 tested.

CDC recommends the vaccine.

THERE WAS AN OPT OUT FOR PARENTS WHO PREFERRED THEIR DAUGHTERS NOT GET IT.

State mandated cost for the girls $10.00. Otherwise, $100.00.


47 posted on 09/22/2011 11:51:34 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: ZGuy
So Michelle Bachmann isn't retarded like some Perry supporters joked about? Maybe they are the retarded ones.
48 posted on 09/22/2011 11:52:47 AM PDT by McGruff (Vetting - The process of examination and evaluation of a candidate's record.)
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To: DJ MacWoW

But, those who didn’t die but had cervical cancer had to have surgery to survive.

What is that number?


49 posted on 09/22/2011 11:53:08 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: taxcontrol

Issue #1 deserves extra scrutiny because we’ve got the FDA wanting to regulate water and food. In the Terri Schiavo case, her parents couldn’t even put a washcloth to her lips to soothe them while she was being dehydrated to death because it was ruled that water was a medication, and unless the person could physically go to the sink and get the water for him/herself it could not be administered except at the direction of a doctor. People need to fully absorb that.

The “showers” at Auschwitz were just government-mandated “medication”. And all the steps that it takes to allow even low-level bureaucrats the same power to force chemicals/medications on us are in process right now in this country.

Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Obama’s administration is filled with people who believe that it is perfectly fine for government to put sterilizing chemicals and abortifacients in the drinking water without telling anybody they are doing it. These people occupy regulatory positions for which there are NO CHECKS AND BALANCES. They can do what they darn well please, and by the time anybody knows they did it, the damage can’t be undone even if they get a court to side with them.

Like I said, the steps that would allow an Auschwitz to happen here are already well underway. We might think it could never happen here, but right now there is NOTHING to keep it from happening. And that should scare the heck out of all of us.

Another thing we can be sure of: Anything run by Kathleen Sibelius is vulnerable to any kind of manipulation Obama wants to be done. WAnt to get rid of diabetics? Just slip a little bit of bad stuff into the insulin supply. It would be so easy. Want to start a swine flu epidemic? Just contaminate the mandated HPV vaccine.

When you’re dealing with ethical people, these things would be unthinkable. But we’re dealing with a man in the White House whose colleagues planned how to exterminate 15 million people who they anticipated would refuse to be “re-educated” after the Marxist takeover. Nothing is unthinkable to them.

And they’ve actually said that “over-population” would COMPEL them to take measures that most people would consider evil. Remember that Adolf Hitler wanted to HELP society by getting rid of the “undesireables”, just as Margaret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood) wanted to “help” society by getting rid of “undesireables” - and the people in control of every regulatory agency in the federal government are adherents of Sanger’s philosophy, agenda, and heritage.

Sanger said that she would win the eugenics war in a way that her colleagues in Germany wouldn’t be able to do, because she was more subtle and recruited charismatic preachers to convince people that it was a gift to them if they were allowed to exterminate their own children/race. She figured if they were stupid enough to buy that argument, then they were stupid enough that it was a favor to society for them to be exterminated.

We really, really need to look our opponents in the eyeballs and see what they truly are and what they truly stand for. If we’re too stupid to do that then maybe we do deserve to be exterminated.


50 posted on 09/22/2011 11:53:40 AM PDT by butterdezillion
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