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A Tea Party Conservative's Defense of Ron Paul...and His Supporters
American Thinker ^ | 9/24/11 | Russ Paladino

Posted on 09/24/2011 11:42:06 AM PDT by Bokababe

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To: trisham
His position is debatable, but most of his supporters are in favor of the pro-choice-by-state policy. They seem to think it worked out so well the last time America decided to let each state decide which persons were legally considered persons.
51 posted on 09/24/2011 4:36:42 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
I did find this:

Day-after pill allows individual moral choice

The abortion problem is more of a social and moral issue than it is a legal one. If we are ever to have fewer abortions, society must change. The law will not accomplish that. However, that does not mean that the states shouldn't be allowed to deal with abortion. Very early pregnancies and victims of rape can be treated with the day after pill, which is nothing more than using birth control pills in a special manner. Such circumstances would be dealt with by each individual making his or her moral choice.

Source: Liberty Defined, by Rep. Ron Paul, p. 5 Apr 19, 2011


And this:

Get the federal government out of abortion decision

Q: If abortion becomes illegal and a woman obtains an abortion anyway, what should she be charged with? What about the doctor who performs the abortion?

RP A: The first thing we have to do is get the federal government out of it.

We don’t need a federal abortion police. That’s the last thing that we need. There has to be a criminal penalty for the person that’s committing that crime. And I think that is the abortionist. As for the punishment, I don’t think that should be up to the president to decide.

Source: 2007 GOP YouTube debate in St. Petersburg, Florida Nov 28, 2007

52 posted on 09/24/2011 4:51:24 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Bokababe
worrying about our own country and its needs.

That is correct at the present time since we are drowning in debt. Until the fiscal mess is solved, we are stupid to spend money on world policeman with borrowed money from China whom we already owe Trillions and we can't pay a single cent back since there are no budget surpluses. But we will be paying interest for ever.

However if USA should retain it's previous status of the 50's & early 60's when we had 50% of world GDP, we can not stand on the sidelines and become isolationist. To keep growing our economy we need secure access to world markets and trade. And that can not happen if world is run by dictators, despots, Caliphs, communists, etc. We then will have to make sure the world is free, just and abides by international law.

But we are not there yet, so yes at this time mind our own business.
53 posted on 09/24/2011 4:59:19 PM PDT by federal__reserve (Peace through strength has worked better than peace via appeasement in history.)
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To: trisham
In other words, he is just fine leaving up to the states.

The majority of abortions are performed in a handful of very liberal states like New York and California, these states will NEVER ban abortion if given the choice. Nearly every person in America lives within a day's drive of a state that will keep abortion legal at any cost, there is no reason to believe that the state-by-state approach will save even a single life.

54 posted on 09/24/2011 5:02:09 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Bokababe
My assumption that conservatives are more thoughtful and logical than my emotion-driven liberal friends has taken a bit of a hit..

Welcome to FR, oh, wait. :)

55 posted on 09/24/2011 5:05:18 PM PDT by Paradox (Democrats on Obama, They can't deny him, He is them.)
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To: rabscuttle385

Well written.


56 posted on 09/24/2011 5:19:12 PM PDT by Gondring (Gone d'Anconia)
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To: trisham

You, sir or madam, are a moron. I support Dr. Paul, absent anyone else who puts the Constitution above everything else, and I am RETIRED from the military (USMC). I don’t use recreational drugs, even alcohol or nicotine but I want the war on some drugs ended, as the serious affront to our Constitution that it is. I want the BATFags disbanded and jailed, THEIR unconstitutional war on gun owners ended, and I want such other affronts to liberty as the EPA disbanded, their people jailed, their lands and buildings torn down and sown with salt.

All that idiots like you do is alienate those you NEED in order to rid us of the Obomination, because you have nothing CONSTRUCTIVE to offer. If you have issues with parts of Dr. Paul’s stances, why not write him and,using reason and logic, point out your disagreements and WHY. Instead you offer nothing but phony derision and name-calling. You are a major part of the problem, NOT the solution.


57 posted on 09/24/2011 5:47:53 PM PDT by dcwusmc (A FREE People have no sovereign save Almighty GOD!!! III OK We are EVERYWHERE)
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To: Marty62; Bokababe; lormand; Allegra; fieldmarshaldj; Dr. Sivana; NObama
BOKABABE:

Ron Paul continues to be a sick joke as a POTUS candidate and will continue to be a sick joke as a long as he continues as a POTUS candidate, whatever this small businessman from Long Island would like to think. To respect Ron Paul is to diminish the meaning of the concept of respect. He has some useful economic views in spite of his love affair with earmarked truckloads of pork for Galveston. Her poses for holy pictures as a pro-lifer while ignoring the 14th Amendment right to life and hiding behind his imagined applicability of the 10th Amendment (trumped by the later enacted 14th) to hide his refusal to ACT in favor of the unborn and his willingness to (Too bad, so sad but, but the 10th....) tolerate the ongoing holocaust, Ditto on all counts except the 14th as to marriage between one man and one woman (no twelvesomes, no marriages among sex perverts of the same sex, no space aliens of indeterminate gender, no Chaz Bono, etc.). One can easily imagine Paul spending a few months as philosopher king wannabe debating himself over closing light houses as "unconstitutional," or having a SCOTUS appointment litmus test over whether prospective nominees would abolish the Interstate Highway System because Eisenhower called them "National Defense Highways" and we all know how paleoPaulie feels about anything labeled National Defense. He would probably demand a formal Declaration of War by Congress to supply the military with ketchup and peelable spuds much less national highways. Perhaps you should confess that your real reason for supporting El Run is that you are still carrying a torch in opposition to the deposing of communist satrap Slobodan Milosevic of Serbia by the American military which cannot be gelded without a sorry specimen like paleoPaulie in "command" of surrender strategies for the USA (perhaps abetted by potential Secretary of Surrender Dennis Cuckoocinich). See Ron and Dennis on their knees, whimpering, weeping with Islamofascist AK-47s in each ear, signing the US over to Sharia Law and making DC the capitol of the new World Caliphate. Weepy Walter Jones and Jimmy Duncan would be there on their knees too!

MARTY62:

Romney? Romney???? Did Romney run Taxachusetts as a "fiscal conservative???" Did Romney do anything whatsoever to defend actual marriage (you know: between one man and one woman) from the People's Glorious Republic of Taxachusetts run amok in favor of requiring public officials to treat institutionalized perversion as "marriage???" Other than vow in debates with Ted Kennedy to protect the continued wholesale slaughter of innocent babies and maybe a little lying lip service to the contrary thereafter, just what has the Mittster ACTUALLY DONE to save babies from being sliced, diced and hamburgerized??? Ahhhh, but you admitted that he was a social issue "moderate!!!" Some "moderation" as Katie Couric, Brian Williams, Planned Barrenhood and Wolf Blitzer use the term!!!

Ahhh, but he is a fiscal conservative!!! By da*n, that ought to be more than enough for those ignorant barbarian trailer park Biblebeaters who cling to their guns and... (whoops! that's Obozo's line too!). After all, don't they understand that the health of your stock portfolio and more tax cuts for your bracket and sending more of those wogs' jobs to Bangladesh as Romney likes to do to improve that bottom line Almighty is absolutely ALL that matters! At least El Run and the Paulistinians make a pretense of being motivated by constitutional restoration. At least, most candidates not named Ron Paul make a pretense of dedication to destroying this nation's enemies. Romney is, no doubt, willing to pose on that one too so long as someone shows him how. If the Mittster is the most libertarian leaning candidate, maybe he should free himself from those Republican chains, take the Libertarian nomination with NM ex-Governor Johnson as his running mate, run as the peace, dope, love (any sort anybody wants) and keep on killing the babies candidates no longer having to pose as square Republican pegs in a round civilized hole. Then they can run as the unabashed money-obsessive Wall Street servants that Mittens has always been.

When the Demonrat Destructocrat political machine makes a national laughing stock out of Romney by attacking his religion and some of its curious practices, he will be defended by Salt Lake City religious leaders (of a religion of verrrrry good folks) but the only motivation for social conservatives to support your quisling Romney will be to defend all those fine folks and actual conservatives (not Mitt) who deserve defense for being pro-life and pro-family and pro-American and pro-gun and anti-tax and anti-regulation and opposed to the globaloney which is Mittster's first love.

If we want a businessman, we can nominate Herman Cain who is a real businessman having made and sold pizzas and not a phony who makes deals with the elitist self-imagined "masters of the universe" to carve the rest of us up. I will NEVER vote for Paul or for Romney or for Huntsman. I haven't decided among the others yet but I don't have to until March, 2012.

EVERYONE ELSE PINGED: Enjoy!

58 posted on 09/24/2011 5:58:28 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club: Burn 'em Bright!!!)
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To: giotto

Cool.


59 posted on 09/24/2011 5:59:45 PM PDT by noblejones (Obama rules!)
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To: BlackElk

Funny uber-rant ping

LOL


60 posted on 09/24/2011 6:01:49 PM PDT by Danae (Anailnathrach ortha bhais beatha do cheal deanaimha)
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To: Marty62

I must have misjudged you. Some degree of apology for #58 is being composed.


61 posted on 09/24/2011 6:13:48 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club: Burn 'em Bright!!!)
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To: Bokababe
I love it when you post an article and ten seconds later people try to prove how smart they are by posting comments and never reading it.

That's because we get such a kick out of watching Paul's acolytes get so predictably indignant. LOL

Hey, how 'bout that Florida straw poll today, eh? :-D

62 posted on 09/24/2011 6:26:28 PM PDT by Allegra (Hey! Stop looking at my tagline like that.)
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To: wagglebee
In other words, he is just fine leaving up to the states. The majority of abortions are performed in a handful of very liberal states like New York and California, these states will NEVER ban abortion if given the choice. Nearly every person in America lives within a day's drive of a state that will keep abortion legal at any cost, there is no reason to believe that the state-by-state approach will save even a single life.

***************************************

Yes. Agreed. Completely.

63 posted on 09/24/2011 6:28:12 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: dcwusmc

I have no interest in corresponding with Paul. Imho, he’s an old crackpot.


64 posted on 09/24/2011 6:29:28 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: wagglebee

I have to go. Good night! :)


65 posted on 09/24/2011 6:30:43 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Bokababe

No Ron Paul is the biggest NUTTER out there. He gets a few things right but the rest of his beliefs suck.


66 posted on 09/24/2011 6:31:41 PM PDT by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: Danae; BlackElk
Funny uber-rant ping

I love Black Elk's Paulrants. They're masterpieces! LOL

67 posted on 09/24/2011 6:37:30 PM PDT by Allegra (Hey! Stop looking at my tagline like that.)
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To: Marty62; lormand; Allegra; Dr. Sivana; NObama; fieldmarshaldj
Marty62:

How DID I soooo misread your #5??? Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! I am not yet sure of Rick Perry but I am definitely open to his candidacy. Other possibles would include Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman, Rick Santorum and Herman Cain. Our primary is in March of next year so I have plenty of time to choose.

In any event, I have certainly done you an injustice and a disservice and for that I apologize and will go off to do my deserved medieval personal penance.

EVERYONE ELSE: My apology to Marty62 is certainly necessary. It also should be circulated as widely as the remarks towards him for which I am apologizing. Whatever I said about Romney persists but Marty62 did not deserve my treatment of Marty62.

68 posted on 09/24/2011 6:52:36 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club: Burn 'em Bright!!!)
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To: Allegra

Awww, shucks, thank you ma’am!!!


69 posted on 09/24/2011 6:54:13 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club: Burn 'em Bright!!!)
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To: upsdriver
My contention would be that many of them won’t vote Republican.

That is the point of the article. If we just angrily shout that they are not welcome in the GOP, they will conclude that they are not welcome. Alternatively, we can engage them at the same level of rational and professional discourse that we expect of everyone else and win a lot of them over. The author isn't asking us to compromise our principles; simply not to drive away people who agree with us 90% of the time.

70 posted on 09/24/2011 7:09:05 PM PDT by lgwdnbdgr
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To: Marty62

You have got to be kidding me!


71 posted on 09/24/2011 7:13:19 PM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: rabscuttle385

APPLAUSE!


72 posted on 09/24/2011 7:14:15 PM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: federal__reserve; Bokababe; dcwusmc; bamahead
And that can not happen if world is run by dictators, despots, Caliphs, communists, etc. We then will have to make sure the world is free, just and abides by international law.

Fine. Then pay for it - unfortunately that means taxes will have to go sky-high, or the US electorate will have to collectively mortgage the lives of its children and grandchildren (i.e., sell its children and grandchildren into slavery)...wait, we're already doing that!

Running an empire - official or unofficial - is a very expensive proposition.

Plus, while your government is in the business of figuring out how to control the lives of people beyond its borders, it might get interested in controlling the lives of people within their borders (like you) and forcing them to submit to its definition of "freedom" and "justice."

No, making the world safe for "freedom" and "justice" - what you have advocated, which is nothing less than what a well-known progressive named Woodrow Wilson advocated one hundred years ago, i.e., using the US military and other governmental machinery to "make the world safe for democracy" - doesn't actually make the world free or just. It, much like every other failed left-wing progressive initiative (see eugenics, the income tax, central banking, the EPA, the UN, Homeland Security, and student loans as good examples) in fact achieves the exact opposite of its stated objectives. But...it does feel nice at time, doesn't it?

73 posted on 09/24/2011 7:14:33 PM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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To: traviskicks; Bokababe; bamahead; dcwusmc; stephenjohnbanker; roamer_1; BufordP
Originally, I was going to put this in a FReepmail but I have decided to just post it publicly.

This entire thread is a display of exactly why I - as one of those "stupid wet-behind-the-ears twenty-somethings" - have given up (mostly) on the Republican Party. (In actuality, I am unaffiliated with any political party - I think that the Founders were on to something when they warned their fellow Americans against the dangers of political factions.)

Too many Republicans whine and bitch about how government fails when it comes to things like student loans, environmental regulations, health care, retirement annuities, airport security, etc.

And, for the most part, they are correct.

The problem is that those same Republicans make a wide U-turn and argue that government must act when it comes to marriage, abortion, education, overseas terrorism, drugs, etc.

To be honest, it took me a lot of introspection, thought, and soul-searching to say what I'm about to say:

It's not the Federal government that's the problem here (for the most part).

It's Americans themselves.

The national cluster f- (pardon my language) that the US is in today is squarely the fault of...well, us, as a nation.

There's a saying that "the government you get is the government you vote for." Or that the government directly reflects the electorate.

Well, it's true.

The vast majority of Americans, irrespective of political stripes, have collectively agreed on one thing for over one hundred years, maybe longer: if there's a problem, government should do something to solve it.

It's taken me a while to realize that that one belief in particular *IS* the problem with the US today.

And it's a problem that government can't solve. It's a problem that Americans must solve for themselves, preferably before this country falls by its own sword - a sword named "democracy."

Ronald Reagan once said, "The most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" And he was right. Too bad most Americans don't sincerely believe those words.

74 posted on 09/24/2011 7:40:40 PM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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To: rabscuttle385

If you read my post in its entirety, you would realize I am NOT pushing for us to play world police UNTIL we get our financial house in order. We can’t play world police with borrowed money from foreigners.

If, and when, our economy is again prosperous, and our GDP approaches 50% of world GDP, that is when we will be again
in a position to play role of super power. Which means we are
decades away from playing that role.


75 posted on 09/24/2011 7:45:31 PM PDT by federal__reserve (Peace through strength has worked better than peace via appeasement in history.)
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To: BlackElk

No apology necessary.

I was just trying to point out that Romney is NOT a true Conservative. He will say or do anything to get a vote. Just like Zero did and continues to do.


76 posted on 09/24/2011 7:48:14 PM PDT by Marty62 (Marty60)
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To: upsdriver

“Many of Ron Paul’s supporters are anti-war, blame America first, stupid wet behind the ears twenty-somethings. They have a lot of growing up to do yet.”

In other words, they are Liberals. lol


77 posted on 09/24/2011 7:50:27 PM PDT by rbmillerjr (Beware of PaulBots tearing down good conservatives - they are deceptive weasels.)
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To: federal__reserve

“If, and when, our economy is again prosperous, and our GDP approaches 50% of world GDP, that is when we will be again
in a position to play role of super power. Which means we are decades away from playing that role.”

boy is that true.
People better start figuring out that it’s no more Mr/Ms nice guy for America. We are broke. If people want to go back to being Thy Brother Keeper, then they better get rid of Democrats FIRST.


78 posted on 09/24/2011 7:51:31 PM PDT by Marty62 (Marty60)
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To: wagglebee
these states will NEVER ban abortion if given the choice

You seem to have very little faith in the ability of the pro-life movement to make its case.

Do you think there are enough states to ratify a constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to life??

79 posted on 09/24/2011 7:51:42 PM PDT by Notary Sojac (Nothing will cure the economy but debt deleveraging, deregulation, and time.)
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To: Bokababe
7 posted on Saturday, September 24, 2011 2:59:10 PM by Bokababe (Save Christian Kosovo! http://www.savekosovo.org)

I find it funny reading your passionate defense of Neo Isolationist Ron Paul in light of your tag line.

Paul would say to you "screw the Christan in Kosovo, they aren't our problem. It their own fault for living in the Muslim's land."

80 posted on 09/24/2011 7:54:16 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: Bokababe

This thread proves the article, doesn’t it.


81 posted on 09/24/2011 8:03:08 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: rabscuttle385
rabscuttle385,

I agree with a lot of what you wrote. At this point, especially considering the way they are being waged, I do not think the current wars in which we are embroiled are in our national interest. I think they are currently being used to stretch our resources beyond the point of the breaking strain. The politicians have spent us into a hole we cannot dig ourselves out of given the current state of things.

They've lined their own pockets well, and seem to think they'll somehow be safe in the coming maelstrom they've set the stage for, or will simply die before it hits. I think they are wrong.

You and I, my friend are doomed to live in interesting times. The writing is on the wall. I've seen it coming since the early 80s. I pray that we'll be able to take the real fight to those who put us here.

If you haven't done so, I strongly recommend you read Mark Steyn's latest "After America". It is guaranteed to piss you off, but it's worth it, and as always, Mr. Steyn is a genious wordsmith. It's an excellent follow-on to "America Alone", which I think I should have re-read before delving in to his newest book.

82 posted on 09/24/2011 8:10:19 PM PDT by zeugma (Those of us who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: rabscuttle385; Jim Robinson; All

” Ronald Reagan once said, “The most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” And he was right. Too bad most Americans don’t sincerely believe those words. “

I worked for RR in his Century City offices on 2 elections as his local Precinct Captain, and moreover as a fundraiser. I personally raised 10 million for Reagan. I will raise 5 dollars for Mitt & Perry. I was at the funeral in Simi Valley.

Capishe?


83 posted on 09/24/2011 8:15:29 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: trisham
Paul is for abortion?

No. He's an MD, who has delivered quite a few babies with his own hands. He also signed the SBA anti-abortion pledge.

84 posted on 09/24/2011 8:37:16 PM PDT by zeugma (Those of us who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: Marty62
Wow, I thought, maybe there's something to this notion and Romney that I missed. You had me thinking about it, so I checked out the site:

"Click to subscribe to Libertarians for Mitt and receive notifications of new posts by email...Join 1 other follower."

Two supporters? Wow, this could steamroll! /sarc

What a joke! ROFLMAO!

85 posted on 09/24/2011 8:44:47 PM PDT by LibertarianInExile (Rick Perry sweep the polls? Naw, the illegals he's coddled in Texas do all his sweeping.)
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To: LibertarianInExile

I didn’t do that. THAT is funny. Wonder who started that site?


86 posted on 09/24/2011 8:53:53 PM PDT by Marty62 (Marty60)
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To: rabscuttle385
Great post!

Judging by the hate some of these posters exhibit here I'm starting to think this country deserves 4 more years of Zero.

I disagree with Ron Paul on many issues, but Rick Perry and Mitt Romney, seriously. I guarantee there will be countless apologetic posts for either of them once one of them has locked up the primaries.
87 posted on 09/24/2011 8:55:58 PM PDT by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: trisham

Then that makes YOU the biggest part of the problem, doesn’t it? YOU are largely why we get squishy moderates or leftists to vote for. Until we’re almost totally out of constitution and republic. You should be ashamed, but “people” like you have no shame in your makeup.


88 posted on 09/24/2011 8:56:02 PM PDT by dcwusmc (A FREE People have no sovereign save Almighty GOD!!! III OK We are EVERYWHERE)
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To: John D

“Sure they will. They will vote for anybody who has anything close to Cynthia McKinney’s policies. The Cynthia McKinney who the surrender monkey endorsed in 2008.”

Paul didn’t “endorse McKinney in 2008.” Even the Wall Street Journal, no pal of Paul’s, didn’t have the cojones to put out that kind of slanted b.s. interpretation of his statement: http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/09/10/ron-paul-endorses-the-third-party-field/

But you know that, and you didn’t care. You just wanted to smear him and his supporters as liberals—they are NOT. But to your point, I wouldn’t vote for McKinney for any public position. Unless, of course, she was running against a slimy smear merchant like you.


89 posted on 09/24/2011 9:09:35 PM PDT by LibertarianInExile (Rick Perry sweep the polls? Naw, the illegals he's coddled in Texas do all his sweeping.)
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To: federal__reserve
I am NOT pushing for us to play world police UNTIL we get our financial house in order...If, and when, our economy is again prosperous, and our GDP approaches 50% of world GDP, that is when we will be again in a position to play role of super power.

Big Government™ that is not enumerated in the Constitution - and that includes abusing the U.S. armed services in the pursuit of being the world's policeman - is NOT conservative.

Irrespective of the state of the U.S. economy, the U.S. should NOT be a global policeman. To do so is to show disrespect for the lives of the men and women in our armed services as well as for the taxpayers who must - at gunpoint - pay for foreign interventions through taxes. To do is to agree with left-wing establishment statists like Wilson and both Roosevelts.

The purpose of the armed services is to provide for a common defense of the United States against enemies foreign and domestic. Not other random people around the world who neither have ties nor bear allegiance to the United States. Got it?

90 posted on 09/24/2011 10:02:12 PM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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To: upsdriver
They’re more likely to vote for the anti-defense liberal in the race and they’ll be quite smug as they do so. It’ll take life’s experiences to turn them around.

Actually, from the ones I have talked with, no. They see readily the way liberalism has closed doors and reduced their options for the future. They see how hard it is to get a job when the employer can be hung out to dry for thousands of reasons, even though many of them would make a good employee. They hear us old farts talk about 'back when' and the things we did and have a fairly clear picture of not only how the world has changed, but who did what to make a mess of it.

Without the partisan blinders of being card-carrying Republicans, they see how one party opens the door to their loss of freedom, and the other party rushes in to loot their liberty.

Two prime examples are the EPA, the War on Drugs, both of which have virtually destroyed property rights, and the right to be secure from search and siezure of ones person, property, and effects.

They may be young (unseasoned by experience), but they are not dumb. They are still trying to make sense of it all, when it doesn't make sense--to them, or even, oftentimes, to us.

You want to turn them off, anyone, just call them names and don't have the decency to calmly explain how they are wrong--if you can.

I'm as anti-drug as it gets, I will not bother to summarize how my retirement has been squandered by the actions of others on drugs, but it has. But I don't think kicking down doors in the burbs is going to do diddley squat in the long run except get innocent people killed when the entry team gets the address wrong--because the d@mned border is still wide open and the stuff is coming in by the ton.

Open the door to wiretapping "terrorists" wholesale, and still not have the collective b@lls to profile at the airport, and all that happens is someone like Napolitano gets in and redefines terrorists as Bible-believing Christians who refuse to relinquish their Second Amendment Rights.

While tha d@mned border remains wide open.

We need to recall the person who spoke up in The Emperor's New Clothes was not a learned man, nor an irate woman, but a child.

Like it or not, Paul's supporters are energized, they may not have the historical perspective some of us do, but they are there, and they will be supporting someone.

A sufficiently Conservative Republican who walks the walk, not just talks the talk, has a good shot at taking these people into the fold, as long as we are not foolish enough to just alienate them out of hand.

91 posted on 09/24/2011 10:59:26 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: giotto
Please do find a recording of Ron Paul "mouthing his truther beliefs."

It's on the shelf right next to the one of Sarah Palin asying she can see Russia from her back porch. (oops, that was someone else...)

92 posted on 09/24/2011 11:14:01 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: wagglebee
They seem to think it worked out so well the last time America decided to let each state decide which persons were legally considered persons.

Considering what we have now, that's definitely a step in the right direction. Some states will put a stop to it.

93 posted on 09/24/2011 11:24:51 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: LibertarianInExile

Bravo. Well said!


94 posted on 09/24/2011 11:54:27 PM PDT by dcwusmc (A FREE People have no sovereign save Almighty GOD!!! III OK We are EVERYWHERE)
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To: Smokin' Joe
next to the one of Sarah Palin saying she can see Russia from her back porch

Right. It's bad enough when the MSM and Democrats make up stuff and spread lies about Republicans. At least we can expect that. But when Freepers spread lies about solidly conservative candidates like Paul, that's counterproductive.

95 posted on 09/25/2011 12:02:25 AM PDT by giotto
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To: giotto
If we must judge someone, let us do so on a basis of whom they follow, not who follows them.

Otherwise, what would we think of that fellow from Galilee who hung out at the wharves among mere fishermen, who counted among his inner circle one who had persecuted Jews and another who would yet betray him, and who freed a condemned criminal from their just and lawful punishment? He wandered the region speaking of a kingdom elsewhere, and of His Father, and people of all walks of life followed him--and still do, sinners all.

96 posted on 09/25/2011 3:08:22 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Bokababe

Bump.


97 posted on 09/25/2011 3:53:09 AM PDT by NoCurrentFreeperByThatName
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To: rabscuttle385
The problem is that those same Republicans make a wide U-turn and argue that government must act when it comes to marriage, abortion, education, overseas terrorism, drugs, etc.

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/

God established 'marriage', and it was between a man and a woman. NOT between perverts whose whole existence is about their preferred sexual lusts... Now it may well become 'acceptable' to the majority of Americans to pervert the meaning of the word marriage, but that is NOT going to be ignored by the ONE (and I am not talking about America's latest god bambamkennedy) WHO bestows the Blessings of LIFE, LIBERTY, and the Pursuit of Happiness... (I have yet to meet a 'happy' queer.)

All the government reductions RonPaul advocates IS not going to cure our ills. Not only do we have a 'credit' problem we have a 'moral' problem. And the 'interest' on our 'moral' debt is NOT because our 'government' is too large.

98 posted on 09/25/2011 4:42:01 AM PDT by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: rabscuttle385

America has been an Empire since 1803.

Having been an Empire, you don’t want to see what it would be like no longer being an Empire.

It is what Rome looked like in 476.


99 posted on 09/25/2011 4:59:09 AM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (REPEAL WASHINGTON! -- Islam Delenda Est! -- I Want Constantinople Back. -- Rumble thee forth.)
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To: LibertarianInExile
Paul didn’t “endorse McKinney in 2008.”

He sure did. He endorsed McKinney, Baldwin and Nader. All at once.
The surrender monkey wants anybody who he thinks will destroy our ability to defend ourselves.
100 posted on 09/25/2011 5:17:15 AM PDT by John D
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