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Don't give out cancer drugs if it's just to extend life: Treatment costs can't be justified,
Daily Mail ^ | 9/26/11 | Sophie Borland

Posted on 09/26/2011 7:50:20 PM PDT by Nachum

Patients with terminal cancer should not be given life-extending drugs, doctors said yesterday. The treatments give false hope and are too costly for the public purse, they warned. The group of 37 cancer experts, including British specialist Karol Sikora, claimed a 'culture of excess' had led doctors to 'overtreat, overdiagnose and overpromise'. Campaigners dismissed the report, saying it was wrong to write off cancer victims. 'I would hardly call this type of treatment futile,' said Rose Woodward, of the James Whale Fund for Kidney Cancer.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: cancer; deathpanels; drugs; healthcare; justified; medicine; obamacare; rationing; socialisthealthcare; treatment
Full title: Don't give out cancer drugs if it's just to extend life: Treatment costs can't be justified, say experts

Why would anyone ever trust one of these doctors ever again?

1 posted on 09/26/2011 7:50:24 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: Nachum

Comrade, you must embrace socialism in all its glory.

No useless feeders. Unless they are muslims with 5 wives and 50 children. Then, they all get houses.

It’s a matter of priorities.


2 posted on 09/26/2011 7:52:25 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Nachum

British doctors laboring valiantly to do what they can within the cruel confines of socialized medicine.

Even Mitt Romney is promising to abolish Obamacare. That should tell us something.


3 posted on 09/26/2011 7:53:05 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: Nachum

Don’t give food if it’s just to extend life. The federal government is not made of money.


4 posted on 09/26/2011 7:54:24 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Palin is coming, and the Tea Party is coming with her.)
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To: Nachum
Here's a secret:

We are all going to die eventually.

My conclusion: all medical spending is a waste on money, throwing resources at a problem that cannot ever be fixed.

Of course, plenty of people nevertheless think it is money well spent. It is only the government bureaucrats who want to pick and choose which patients are just "useless eaters".

5 posted on 09/26/2011 7:54:29 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The USSR spent itself into bankruptcy and collapsed -- and aren't we on the same path now?)
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To: Nachum

EVERYTHING we do, we do to extend life, including eating meals.


6 posted on 09/26/2011 7:54:44 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Overproduction, one of the top five worries of the American Farmer each and every year..)
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To: Travis McGee

Not even giving the patient or his/her family the choice to say what kind of life is worth making longer? And especially the patient if still competent? Not quite as cruel as Dr. Mengele, but getting up there.


7 posted on 09/26/2011 7:54:44 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Sometimes treatments are expensive enough that serious economic questions arise. Basic food isn’t that way, which is why many conservatives tolerate food stamps. And if this is attempting to put a lid on what a patient can actually purchase with his or her own funds, then it is wholly out of line.


8 posted on 09/26/2011 7:57:22 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: HiTech RedNeck

This certainly makes Cains’s point.

With his predicted chances, he would have been denied under this proposal.


9 posted on 09/26/2011 7:59:14 PM PDT by old curmudgeon
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To: Nachum

The UK is leading the West to its death and destruction. Time to nuke it from orbit. It’s the only way.


10 posted on 09/26/2011 7:59:27 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Nachum
And then again, if we were immortal we would not need medicine.
11 posted on 09/26/2011 8:00:09 PM PDT by oldbrowser (Obama is a one trick phony (wealth distribution).)
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To: Nachum
No medications to "extend life?" What the hell is the point of any medication if not to "extend life?"
12 posted on 09/26/2011 8:00:29 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: old curmudgeon

Cain certainly dodged a cannonball, let alone a bullet.


13 posted on 09/26/2011 8:02:41 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: HiTech RedNeck
The whole Ubamacare thing is about killing off old white people ASAP. Gotta shift those demographics.

And they'll use every possible means to accomplish their goal.

14 posted on 09/26/2011 8:02:58 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Palin is coming, and the Tea Party is coming with her.)
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To: hinckley buzzard

Sometimes, to make it less unpleasant. But still.


15 posted on 09/26/2011 8:04:45 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (There's gonna be a Redneck Revolution! (See my freep page) [rednecks come in many colors])
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To: Nachum

Somewhere in the deepest pits of hell... Joe Stalin and Adolf Hitler are yelling “hell yea” !


16 posted on 09/26/2011 8:05:08 PM PDT by se_ohio_young_conservative
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To: ClearCase_guy
All medical spending is a waste on money, throwing resources at a problem that cannot ever be fixed. Of course, plenty of people nevertheless think it is money well spent.

And that's exactly why socialized medicine is doomed to deliver these results. As people are getting older the cost of keeping them alive increases exponentially with every passing day. If you are paying your own money you are free to choose if you want to buy yourself an extra year of life or you'd rather give your grandchildren all the tuition money they ever need. Life is deadly, and no amount of money will let you live forever. You have your money and you make your decision. However if your medical investments are separated from your control then someone else will decide for you what you deserve. Note that the choice of keeping the money in the family is not an option here.

17 posted on 09/26/2011 8:07:51 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: Nachum

“Life Unworthy of Life”

The good doctors...the good lawyers....the good judges...

Action T4.


18 posted on 09/26/2011 8:08:21 PM PDT by Crim (Palin / West '12)
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To: Nachum

Before government care you didn’t ask anyone to “give out” anything. Via insurance or whatever means you PAID for your care and no one could hold it back.


19 posted on 09/26/2011 8:09:54 PM PDT by Williams (Honey Badger Don't Care)
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To: Nachum

I never have......They have been trained and conditioned in immoral atheist factories for longer than most people. I have always trusted them least since they no longer abide by the Hippocratic Oath-—since abortion. They can allow abortion-—they are immoral and can’t be trusted unless they are vocally on the line and in the streets for pro-life.


20 posted on 09/26/2011 8:11:06 PM PDT by savagesusie
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To: Nachum
Patients with terminal cancer should not be given life-extending drugs, doctors said yesterday.

How about 'Sort of-Terminal'?
Oh, never mind - life is terminal - not even sort of...straight terminal

So when will we all be given warranties - like cars? If we run out of the Warranty we either buy a new body or take the bus....

21 posted on 09/26/2011 8:12:56 PM PDT by libertarian27 (Agenda21: Dept. of Life, Dept. of Liberty and the Dept. of Happiness)
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To: Nachum
So then why should drug companies bother trying to develope new cancer drugs? Lets just spend the money on treating preventable diseases like AIDS,addictions,pregnancies and sex change operations.
22 posted on 09/26/2011 8:17:53 PM PDT by willk
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To: libertarian27

When you lose God, you have nothing left.

When a society loses God, human life is no more important than a pig on a Bob Evans Farm.


23 posted on 09/26/2011 8:18:03 PM PDT by se_ohio_young_conservative
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To: willk

That’s the ticket! LOL :>)

We are indeed living in strange times...unbelievable, isn’t it....


24 posted on 09/26/2011 8:22:57 PM PDT by libertarian27 (Agenda21: Dept. of Life, Dept. of Liberty and the Dept. of Happiness)
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To: Nachum

It used to be, life extension drugs for fatally ill patients were to keep the patient alive long enough, months, years, etc to hopefully find a better treatment, get them along long enough to get surgery or, hopefully, a cure.

It used to be, keeping patients alive and otherwise healthy, brought hope.

There is now the pit of despair and the stark reality that medicine just cannot provide what it used to. There is no hope. Hope and faith have left the building.

No longer is it up to the individual and his family. You will conform.

Unless, of course, you have lots of money and contribute generously to proper people.


25 posted on 09/26/2011 8:41:02 PM PDT by SolidRedState (I used to think bizarro world was a fiction.)
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To: Nachum

If the Da*n Treatment COSTS can’t be justified, then Neither can the Govt. THEFT of making people pay Into the system their whole life.

It’s one or the other. Either PAY OUT on what was Collected/Stolen, or STOP STEALING it in the First Place.

“Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.”
P.J. O’Rourke


26 posted on 09/26/2011 8:41:17 PM PDT by To-Whose-Benefit? (It is Error alone which needs the support of Government. The Truth can stand by itself.)
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To: Nachum

Isn’t it the purpose of cancer drugs to fight the cancer and extend the life? No one gets out of here alive but they should at least let us live as long as we can.


27 posted on 09/26/2011 8:45:10 PM PDT by Domestic Church (AMDG...)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
When a society loses God, human life is no more important than a pig on a Bob Evans Farm.

This is the central point. Without the inherent dignity of human life which follows from belief in God as Creator, there is nothing to stop the killing of (i.e., refusing medical treatment to) the weak and elderly. As Dostoyevsky so aptly put it: "If there is no God, then everything is permitted."

Without an absolute basis for ethics, which can only be rooted in the Divine, there is frankly nothing to stand in the way of mass murder. It was atheistic Communism under Stalin and Mao which was responsible for the slaughter of untold tens of millions in the last century, while a deranged, occultic Hitler who at times gave lip service to but despised the Church, was responsible for many millions of additional victims. To that list we can add Pol Pot and other atheistic despots.

Many injustices through the centuries have been committed in the name of Christianity, but the sum total is but a pittance compared to the sheer violence and murder which continues to this very minute by those who spit upon Divine Law.

To those who naively suppose that belief in God is not necessary to create a just society, I submit that what is now happening in England and Europe is exactly the sort of "justice" one can expect from a society which has rejected its religious heritage.

28 posted on 09/26/2011 9:09:20 PM PDT by tjd1454
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To: Nachum
I can understand where the docs are coming from but this is the and starts to make "choices"....

this is why this attitude will be made into the norm....not treating the disabled or the elderly or the frail or the developmentally delayed....

this is why ultimately, we will go back to using the death penalty more and more...as people see their kids not getting into college or not afforded good jobs, they'll grow to demand the murderers not be coddled...

ultimately....those who are fat, or who smoke, or drink, or don't wear seat belts etc will not be given health care...

29 posted on 09/26/2011 9:11:11 PM PDT by cherry
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To: Nachum

Main reason I dropped out of HMO type insurance was because the “primary” doctor determines your next treatment. It is not as bad as a bureaucrat making your medical decisions but I hated the HMO arrangement. The HMO doctor just gave me pills for my pain problem. When I was able to sign up for a PPO plan, the doctor of my choice quickly determined I had gall stones causing my problem via an ultrasound test.

I would just dread getting cancer and be under socialized health care. Herman Cain is lucky Obamacare was not in place when he had bi-lateral cancer.


30 posted on 09/26/2011 9:12:10 PM PDT by federal__reserve (Peace through strength has worked better than peace via appeasement in history.)
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To: To-Whose-Benefit?

and isn’t it funny that the same govts who don’t want to pay to extend your life also are the ones that will arrest you or your family for home remedies.....


31 posted on 09/26/2011 9:13:23 PM PDT by cherry
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To: Nachum
It's not doctors who will be making these decisions. It is politicians. You didn't really think they wanted to ‘invest’ 1/6 of the American economy in your health care did you?
32 posted on 09/26/2011 9:50:17 PM PDT by originalbuckeye
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To: Nachum

This is why China and Russia are going ot lead the way in curing diseases, thus getting all the glory and getting all the Nobel Prizes. They don’t want to kill their patients and they want the glory of having one of their citizens winning prestigious awards in medicine and science. Each time a Chinese or Russian scientist ends up curing a disease or discovering a cutting edge treatment, that is less prestige for our country.


33 posted on 09/27/2011 12:38:33 AM PDT by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Calm down. This wont happen.

This is a recommendation from a small group of cancer doctors, not a policy change. As the article shows, there has been an immediate response from cancer charities. One of the experts is the expert who diagnosed Megrahi, which wont help the report’s credibility.


34 posted on 09/27/2011 3:20:39 AM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: the scotsman

It’s been happening more than you even begin to realize. Where do you think Keynesian economics, followed by most Western nations, originated? Find out where John Maynard Keynes had his citizenship.

The UK has the plague of collectivism in a very bad way and they’ve been spreading it around to the detriment of every nation where it is exported to. If we don’t break with them we are going to dragged down with them into complete and utter destruction.


35 posted on 09/27/2011 5:20:52 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Nachum

This will be the grandchildren’s payback for the debt we’ve placed upon them.


36 posted on 09/27/2011 5:23:10 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (So much stress was put on Bush's Fault that it finally let go, magnitude 6)
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To: Nachum
I'm not going to argue with this logic. Some of these cancer drugs are outrageously expensive and besides, just because it MAY extend life, what they do to the quality of life is another matter.

If someone wants it, they can pay for it themselves and besides, I have a friend with what started out as ovarian cancer she has been treating with natural means and has been alive many years now and she is in no pain. Try that with chemo.

There may be better alternatives that are much less expensive.

37 posted on 09/27/2011 5:27:46 AM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: Nachum

Instead of stopping treatment, make the drugs more affordable. My wife is presently taking Tarceva for her lung cancer at a cost of $5000 per month. That is what is ridiculous. Rein in the drug companies,lawyers, $10,000 PET scans and such.


38 posted on 09/27/2011 5:54:38 AM PDT by New Jersey Realist (Congress doesn't care a damn about "we the people")
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To: New Jersey Realist

Careful, on here, thats communist talk. And probably antiamerican.


39 posted on 09/27/2011 8:06:30 AM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: Nachum

In cancer, the time between “not going to be cured” and dead is sometimes kind of long, and it’s important, because a lot can happen that is helpful to the patient and everyone else. It’s not futile to extend life without a cure, it’s a gift that allows people to get ready for check out time and do some important living.

Steve Job’s pancreatic cancer was not cured. He persisted for seven years, though, during which time he was working and being a husband and father.

Someone else I know went for every cancer treatment available and spent tons of money on it, instead of just laying down to die when she was terminal. Of course, she did die, but not until after she had seen her daughter graduate from high school. The extra time and money allowed her to reach that goal.

It may be hard to quantify monetarily the benefits of extra time, but perhaps it can save on probate costs if people do pre-death planning, mental health services for family members who had more time to prepare, generate extra productivity in the workplace by those patients who could work longer or prepare for their departure from the office.

Looking at cancer care that extends life merely as a medical expense with no benefit is way too narrow.


40 posted on 10/07/2011 7:04:39 AM PDT by married21 (As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.)
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