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Bombshell: DOJ Considering Elimination of ATF (ATF? WTF?)
Townhall ^ | 09/30/2011 | Katie Palich

Posted on 09/30/2011 2:59:57 PM PDT by PhilosopherStone1000

Multiple sources, including sources from ATF, DOJ and Congressional offices have said there is a white paper circulating within the Department of Justice, outlining the essential elimination of ATF. According to sources, the paper outlines the firing of at least 450 ATF agents in an effort to conduct damage control as Operation Fast and Furious gets uglier and as election day 2012 gets closer.

/snip

“It’s a serious white paper being circulated, how far they’d get with it I don’t know,” a confidential source said.

After a town hall meeting about Operation Fast and Furious in Tucson, Ariz. on Monday, ATF Whistleblower Vince Cefalu, who has been key in exposing details about Operation Fast and Furious, confirmed the elimination of ATF has been circulating as a serious idea for sometime now and that a white paper outlining the plan does exist.

Sounds great right? Eliminating ATF? But there is more to this story. Remember, low level ATF field agents, like ATF whistleblower John Dodson, were uncomfortable conducting Operation Fast and Furious from the beginning, but were told by high level officials within ATF that if they had a problem with the operation, they could find a job elsewhere.

“Allowing loads of weapons that we knew to be destined for criminals, this was the plan. It was so mandated,” ATF Whistleblower John Dodson said in testimony on Capitol Hill on June 15, 2011.

In fact, not only were the ATF agents forced to carry out the operation, they were told to go against what they had been taught in training.

/more on page 2

(Excerpt) Read more at townhall.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; fastandfurious; gunrunner; gunwalker
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Holder and Dumb0 running scared.
1 posted on 09/30/2011 3:00:02 PM PDT by PhilosopherStone1000
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

Dry manure is spreading in the wind.


2 posted on 09/30/2011 3:03:45 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Allowing Islam into America is akin to injecting yourself with AIDS to prove how tolerant you are..)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

Maybe. But it would be spun as O and H taking decisive action against a corrupt government entity.


3 posted on 09/30/2011 3:03:52 PM PDT by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
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To: vette6387; MetaThought; 60Gunner; XHogPilot; FreedomPoster; Josephat; Prince of Space; ...
OH BOY PING!!!

FOR REFERENCE:

DAVID CODREA'S PROJECT GUNWALKER

A Journalist's guide to 'Project Gunwalker'-Part One

A Journalist's Guide to 'Project Gunwalker'-Part Two

A Journalist's Guide to 'Project Gunwalker'-Part Three

A Journalist's Guide to 'Project Gunwalker'-Part Four

A Journalist's Guide to 'Project Gunwalker'-Part Five

A Journalist's Guide to 'Project Gunwalker'-Part Six

FOX VIDEOS

CNN VIDEOS

CBS VIDEOS

DRUDGEWATCH
(updated daily)

Input needed. Have now started a new ping list called BORDER WARS since so many of these stories are starting to intersect and overlap. I would like to keep the Gunwalker threads separate. Let me know if you want on the Border Wars list. It will NOT be the same as Gunwalker, though they might overlap occasionally. Please ping me to any articles you think fit in this catagory. Thank you.

4 posted on 09/30/2011 3:04:34 PM PDT by MestaMachine (Wanna confuse obama? Ask him his REAL name.)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000
It might be a serious Black Paper.


5 posted on 09/30/2011 3:04:50 PM PDT by hflynn
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

I’ll believe it when I see it. The ATF should have been shut down long ago.


6 posted on 09/30/2011 3:04:50 PM PDT by 50cal Smokepole (Effective gun control involves effective recoil management)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000
It might be a serious Black Paper.


7 posted on 09/30/2011 3:04:51 PM PDT by hflynn
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

ATF has always been against terrorists.

Obama and Holder and the DOJ (now), not so much.


8 posted on 09/30/2011 3:05:51 PM PDT by Diogenesis ("Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. " Pres. Ronald Reagan)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000
An entire bureau going under the bus? I think they're going to need to put on the big tires for this job.
9 posted on 09/30/2011 3:06:01 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (Compare "Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson // "Pass this bill now!" - Barack Obama)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

ATF to be consolidated under executive privilege.


10 posted on 09/30/2011 3:06:22 PM PDT by Razzz42
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

Another government agency will just be given more power then the ATF had had in the first place.


11 posted on 09/30/2011 3:06:53 PM PDT by Husker24
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

Holder and Dunham think they can blame their own criminal activity on the people they ordered to perpetrate it.


12 posted on 09/30/2011 3:07:18 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." --Ronald Reagan)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

If it was the EPA, NEA, DHS, DOE or HHS I’d probably be impressed.


13 posted on 09/30/2011 3:07:38 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (If you always tell the truth, you won't have to remember what you said.)
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To: 50cal Smokepole

Yes, but let’s keep our eye on the ball here.

Knowingly selling guns to foreign drug cartels who use those guns to kill Americans (not to mention more than 200 Mexicans) solely for the political purpose of strenghening US gun control laws is an impeachable offense.

Heck, Nixon got forced out for covering up a simple breaking and entering. What’s covering up murder worth?


14 posted on 09/30/2011 3:08:36 PM PDT by PhilosopherStone1000
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

good.

but the probably is this guy wants his own domestic army.


15 posted on 09/30/2011 3:08:49 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000
It'll go away like ACORN went away. In other words, they'll change their letterhead.

WTF does alcohol, tobacco and firearms have to do with each other anyway?

Why don't we have a department of carrots, moonbeams, and electrolytes?

16 posted on 09/30/2011 3:09:28 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

An obvious attempt to take the heat off of Holder and Obama, as well as a string of others.

Smoke and mirrors.....Does anybody really believe that ACORN no longer exists?


17 posted on 09/30/2011 3:09:34 PM PDT by Gator113 (Palin 2012, period.....)
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To: 50cal Smokepole

I’m with you. ATF and homeland security both should go. Stick with the basic FBI and police forces...back to the basics...that should be plenty good!


18 posted on 09/30/2011 3:09:38 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

Be careful, if they shut down the ATF then they will need a new agency to control gun sales. This means new rules and regulations. Until they get the new agency up to speed no gun sales. Think BP and the oil spill. How’s that drilling for oil in the Gulf going? Never let a crisis go to waste is this administration’s theme!


19 posted on 09/30/2011 3:10:08 PM PDT by Lockbox (`)
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To: dead

“Why don’t we have a department of carrots, moonbeams, and electrolytes?”

You obviously don’t live in California...


20 posted on 09/30/2011 3:11:05 PM PDT by PhilosopherStone1000
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

That would only be a start on eliminating rogue agencies. The White House and the DOJ set the tone for Fast and Furious.


21 posted on 09/30/2011 3:11:42 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: Diogenesis
ATF has always been against terrorists.

There. Fixed it for you...

22 posted on 09/30/2011 3:12:06 PM PDT by Ol' Dan Tucker (People should not be afraid of the government. Governement should be afraid of the people)
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To: Diogenesis

Agreed. Several of the Law Enforcement agencies could be combined.....save money on overlap


23 posted on 09/30/2011 3:16:03 PM PDT by jakerobins
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

WTF?


24 posted on 09/30/2011 3:16:22 PM PDT by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid! (Rock you like a hermancain!)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

I think “elimination” means “replacement”.


25 posted on 09/30/2011 3:16:44 PM PDT by cripplecreek (A vote for Amnesty is a vote for a permanent Democrat majority. ..Choose well.)
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To: Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!

WTF = “Win the Future”.


26 posted on 09/30/2011 3:19:20 PM PDT by PhilosopherStone1000
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

Smoke and mirrors. They will retire as many as possible and send the rest to another alphabet agency which will simply start a new division under a new name and continue the same ol’ bullshit.


27 posted on 09/30/2011 3:19:23 PM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000
Roll the ATF and its operations under DHS, rename the new agency: Reichssicherheitshauptamt
28 posted on 09/30/2011 3:19:53 PM PDT by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

Mrkd


29 posted on 09/30/2011 3:19:56 PM PDT by KarenMarie (NEVER believe anything coming out of DC until it's been denied.)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

Elimination of ATF1 I’ve been waiting to read that for over thirty years since Rex Davis’ crap.


30 posted on 09/30/2011 3:24:20 PM PDT by meatloaf (It's time to push back against out of control government.)
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To: Husker24
Another government agency will just be given more power then the ATF had had in the first place.

Probably the EPA.

31 posted on 09/30/2011 3:24:37 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

They lie about everything.


32 posted on 09/30/2011 3:25:32 PM PDT by muddler (Diligentia, Vis and Celeritas)
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To: Husker24; All

—righto—if we thought the ATF was bad, wait til the FBI gets to take this over——


33 posted on 09/30/2011 3:26:44 PM PDT by rellimpank (--don't believe anything the media or government says about firearms or explosives--)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

Clearing being done to cover up Operation End the 2nd Amendment.

On the upside however, BATFE may go bye-bye. Doubt it but it makes me smile a little.


34 posted on 09/30/2011 3:29:17 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: 50cal Smokepole
They'll just create another bureaucracy to replace it.
35 posted on 09/30/2011 3:30:06 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Scotsman will be Free; Lockbox
I agree with Lockbox:

Be careful, if they shut down the ATF then they will need a new agency to control gun sales. This means new rules and regulations. Until they get the new agency up to speed no gun sales. Think BP and the oil spill. How’s that drilling for oil in the Gulf going? Never let a crisis go to waste is this administration’s theme!

That's the Obama Administration I know.

36 posted on 09/30/2011 3:32:02 PM PDT by tsowellfan (Perry/Cain haters may not be RINOs but I cant think of anything a RINO would have done differently)
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To: dead

WTF does alcohol, tobacco and firearms have to do with each other anyway?


They are subject to federal excise taxes.

The sole justification for the agency is to serve as tax collectors. A PO Box would be sufficient.


37 posted on 09/30/2011 3:33:11 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Author of BullionBible.com - Makes You a Precious Metal Expert, Guaranteed.)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000; 50cal Smokepole
Knowingly selling guns to foreign drug cartels who use those guns to kill Americans (not to mention more than 200 Mexicans) solely for the political purpose of strenghening US gun control laws is an impeachable offense.

Heck, Nixon got forced out for covering up a simple breaking and entering. What’s covering up murder worth?

An impeachable offense is whatever the House of Representatives determines it to be.

Remember that Andrew Johnson was impeached for firing cabinet officers in violation of a law passed by congress over his veto. The law is considered unconstitutional by pretty much everyone. The Republicans in control of congress simply hated his guts.

As for Nixon he was hated as well by the Dims that control both houses. The Republicans were a party in exile so beaten down by decades as a minority party that they simply paid lip service to their party platform and were Democrat light in reality.

The current Republicans are recovering Republicrats so don’t expect them to go to the mat on principles that they only loosely hold. I would imagine that they will be a bit gun shy on the whole impeachment idea after getting spanked at the polls after the impeachment of Clinton.

38 posted on 09/30/2011 3:33:40 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: dead
“WTF does alcohol, tobacco and firearms have to do with each other anyway?”

After you come back from hunting you have yourself 3 fingers of Kentucky’s finest and a good cigar.

39 posted on 09/30/2011 3:33:44 PM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

An attempt to divert. This will be nothing but a name change (think ACORN) and a few desks and portfolios shuffled around. The same criminal, totalitarian thugs will still play the same games until the bad actors start doing hard prison time.


40 posted on 09/30/2011 3:34:12 PM PDT by Paine in the Neck (Where's he getting these ideas? He's not smart enough to be that stupid all by himself.)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

SOUNDS GOOD, HUH..? ObaMugabe dislikes ATF not because it’s dishonest, but cuz it WAS NOT DISHONEST **ENOUGH**.

Any idiot here has known since Waco that the ATF should have been shut down, sure. Even before that, “SHALL not be infringed” —the framers spelled it out explicitly hundreds of years ago.

So the ObaMugabe guys aren’t saying anything new.

They’re cynically throwing the comparatively honest guys under the bus and it means that they genuinely fear this investigation while it’s Solyndra that’s winning all the headlines.

F&F IS HIS WATERGATE.

200 Mexicans dead (so far), a casino burned to the ground, a Mexican helicopter shot-down.

It is going to get worse, since only 1/3 of the guns have been recovered.

The stats that went into the 200 dead number —those were only the guys dead when the guns were used FOR THE LAST TIME. Does anyone think the killers jettisoned their guns only after ONE KILL?

The number so far is probably three or four times higher, and since only 1/3 of the guns have been recovered, if they’re all ever recovered the number of dead will surpass officially surpass 600.

Will another 6 US lawmen die...?

Name me another time when (thousands of) US weapons were illegally and KNOWINGLY passed to professional criminals known to be hostile to the USA...?

Come on —just ONE time. Name it.

Note —there were 3 guns recovered, not 2, at the Border Patrolman’s murder site. Ballistics tests RULED OUT that the murder weapon was the first two reported.

It is possible or even LIKELY that the weapon of an FBI informant was used to kill a badged US officer.

SOME AMERICAN IS AN ACCESSORY TO A LEO MURDER.


41 posted on 09/30/2011 3:35:36 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

If Democrats are actually starting to talk about eliminating an agency of ATF’s visibility, you know that there’s blood in the water . . .

This thing goes all the way to the top, I’d wager.

All the way to the very, very top.


42 posted on 09/30/2011 3:38:04 PM PDT by filbert (More filbert at http://www.medary.com--GAME ON!!!)
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To: dead
WTF does alcohol, tobacco and firearms have to do with each other anyway?


43 posted on 09/30/2011 3:40:05 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

ATF has been the dumping ground for failed agents of other agencies for a LONG time.

It’s the last stop before “Separation”, and requires less paperwork, fewer internal memo’s and hearings, etc.

If ATF goes they will be “replaced” by another alphabet with the same stated duties, same thousands of pages of regulations, same anti-RKBA agenda, etc.

Since so few WANT to work there, the same cycle of dumping deadwood will repeat, and the same sort of horrific activities will occur.

No doubt DOJ/Obummer would also take what passes for “reorganization” as an opportunity to also put more repugnant “regulations” in place per the HCI/Bloomberg agenda.

Fire ATF workers?
OK, work from the top down, eliminate all political appointments, eliminate political agenda’s.

A necessary step is to eliminate the “Sporting Purposes” clause from all Fed. regulations, and cease allowing ANY Fed. “Regulatory agencies” to create law by “Interpretation”.

All new laws to be created ONLY by congress, per our U.S. Constitution.
A sunset clause for all laws which diminish our freedom is needed too.


44 posted on 09/30/2011 3:41:03 PM PDT by Loyal Sedition
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To: dead

” WTF does alcohol, tobacco and firearms have to do with each other anyway? “

All subjects of Prohibition movements??

(One accomplished, but unsuccessful - two pending..)


45 posted on 09/30/2011 3:41:40 PM PDT by Uncle Ike (Rope is cheap, and there are lots of trees...)
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To: filbert
you know that there’s blood in the water . . . I typed that without thinking. That was a REALLY unfortunate choice of words and I apologize . . .
46 posted on 09/30/2011 3:43:08 PM PDT by filbert (More filbert at http://www.medary.com--GAME ON!!!)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

Zero getting it right for a change...abet for the wrong reasons but I’ll cut him some slack.....


47 posted on 09/30/2011 3:44:27 PM PDT by rightwingextremist1776
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To: PhilosopherStone1000

Zero getting it right for a change...abet for the wrong reasons but I’ll cut him some slack.....


48 posted on 09/30/2011 3:44:27 PM PDT by rightwingextremist1776
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To: dead

“WTF does alcohol, tobacco and firearms have to do with each other anyway?”

All three are things that the liberal democrats would like to control, but it is unconstitutional to do so?


49 posted on 09/30/2011 3:46:22 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: PhilosopherStone1000
"Under the bus with YOU"

LOL

Why not eliminate the DOE for the Solyndra sham, and the NEA for the failed eductaion system? How about the EPA, for the drastic economic and private property Rights elimination?

50 posted on 09/30/2011 3:52:20 PM PDT by traditional1 ("Don't gotsta worry 'bout no mo'gage, don't gotsta worry 'bout no gas; Obama gonna take care o' me!)
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