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Tapper vs. Carney: Was Awlaki Death Constitutional? (Video)
ABC News ^ | 9/30/11 | Jake Tapper

Posted on 09/30/2011 7:15:12 PM PDT by Bokababe

Tapper to Carney: "Do you not see at all... does the Administration not see at all how a president asserting that he has the right to kill an American citizen without due process and that he's not going to even explain why he thinks that he has that right, is troublesome to some people?"...

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=14642685

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: alawlaki; deadanchorbaby; jaketapper; wot
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Jake is acting like a real journalist here.
1 posted on 09/30/2011 7:15:15 PM PDT by Bokababe
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To: Bokababe

I agree that the traitor should have been killed. But Obama should have the guts to come out and tell why it was done and why it was the right thing to do.

We know he won’t because his crazy base would go bats**t.


2 posted on 09/30/2011 7:26:57 PM PDT by Patrick1 ("The problem with Internet quotations is that many are not genuine." - Abraham Lincoln)
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To: Patrick1

Ot was the right thing to do because it would be wrong to capture him and water board him and actually get info out of him.


3 posted on 09/30/2011 7:36:21 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Bokababe

Tough to pick a headline... 1. Kenyan Prince snuffs Yemeni Imam. 2. Muzzie greases Muzzie. 3. Half President orders hit on Half Citizen.


4 posted on 09/30/2011 7:36:51 PM PDT by PA-RIVER
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To: Patrick1
I think al Awlaki was in all likelihood a total scumbag who deserved no better than what he got.

But when a president plays judge, jury and executioner of an American citizen without due process of law -- and in fact actually denied Awlaki his right to even be represented by an attorney so that he could challenge the reasons for being put on this hit list -- that president better prepared to make his case to the American people to let them know why they are safe and why they aren't also in danger of being next on his list.

5 posted on 09/30/2011 7:37:56 PM PDT by Bokababe (Save Christian Kosovo! http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Sacajaweau

U r too smart.


6 posted on 09/30/2011 7:38:09 PM PDT by TwoSwords (Has anyone seen my suspension of disbelief pills?)
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To: Bokababe

I would agree, but for the fact that we are at war, which changes that completely.


7 posted on 09/30/2011 7:40:56 PM PDT by Patrick1 ("The problem with Internet quotations is that many are not genuine." - Abraham Lincoln)
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To: Bokababe

Isn’t there a law somewhere that says you renounce your United States citizenship when you take up arms against the United States? I’m pretty sure this guy was no longer a citizen - by his own choice.


8 posted on 09/30/2011 7:43:03 PM PDT by Personal Responsibility (Cain 2012!)
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To: Patrick1

Please be careful when you use the term “bats**t. I am very sensitive to being associated to his “crazy base”.

Col Bat Guano


9 posted on 09/30/2011 7:44:36 PM PDT by BatGuano (You don't think I'd go into combat with loose change in my pocket, do ya?)
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To: Bokababe

How is this killing any different than the killing of Bin Laden?


10 posted on 09/30/2011 7:45:54 PM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: Patrick1
I would agree, but for the fact that we are at war, which changes that completely.

Forgive me if I sometimes wonder whether or not that's the objective -- to continually keep us at war in order to excuse everything they do, and to keep wars going long enough so that a whole generation forgets what real freedom and a country at peace looks like.

11 posted on 09/30/2011 7:49:09 PM PDT by Bokababe (Save Christian Kosovo! http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: PA-RIVER

4. Foreign born Mooslim, Obama, hits a “home grown” Mooslim.


12 posted on 09/30/2011 7:50:02 PM PDT by BatGuano (You don't think I'd go into combat with loose change in my pocket, do ya?)
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To: Bokababe

when Anwar al-Awlaki came to study in the US, he came on a foreign student visa. You see, even though al-Awlaki was born in Las Cruces, New Mexico, his parents were not American citizens. In fact, after his father completed his studies here, the family returned to Yemen. Anwar would not even be considered a 14th Amendment citizen, which states "All person born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." Anwar's parents were never US citizens, nor did they intend to become citizens; neither did his parents have "a permanent domicile and residence in the United States,"  which is the standard according to the Supreme court decision in United States vs Wong Kim Ark.

According to the State Department, there are different rules, and, since al-Awlaki came to the US on a scholarship from Yemen, we can assume that he renounced his US citizenship, because Yemen does not recognize dual citizenship. Furthermore, his father was the Agriculture Minister in Yemen. Otherwise, why would al-Awlaki have come on a foreign student visa to study in Colorado in 1991?

13 posted on 09/30/2011 7:52:20 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Chode

That is some good stuff! Thanks for posting this info. FR kicks butt!


14 posted on 09/30/2011 8:00:12 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (If you always tell the truth, you won't have to remember what you said.)
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To: Bokababe

If I were in a war and an American traitor was shooting at me or ordering others to shoot at me I would kill that SOB and not think twice.

This turkey was responsible for American deaths , he was supporting those who would kill Americans, he was in a combat zone. He is dead, and good riddance to bad rubbish.

This man was perhaps American by birth, but he was no American in my mind.


15 posted on 09/30/2011 8:00:56 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: Bokababe
Just remember that:

1. Obama (and Holder) wanted to read Miranda rights to combatants.

2. Obama wanted to close down Gitmo.

3, Obama wanted to give terrorists civil trials and not military trials.

4. The Left was screaming about wire tapping terrorists.

And now he just blew up an American citizen

16 posted on 09/30/2011 8:05:22 PM PDT by cruise_missile
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To: FlingWingFlyer
welcome, i'm tired of this crap...
17 posted on 09/30/2011 8:08:44 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Bokababe
BS ~ AlAwlaki had a choice ~ he knew he was wanted. He could have arranged to surrender at any time.

He didn't.

Wasn't OUR FAULT that he evaded delivery of a warrant.

That's the nature of war. It usually happens outside of court.

18 posted on 09/30/2011 8:09:58 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Bokababe

I’ve noticed that the only good things Obama does are the George W. Bush things he promised he would never do once he got elected.


19 posted on 09/30/2011 8:10:09 PM PDT by TruthShallSetYouFree ("Nanny Care State" is not a Division 3 football powerhouse.)
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To: Bokababe

“THEY” started this war against us. We will complete. We will complete.


20 posted on 09/30/2011 8:12:06 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: cruise_missile
Just remember that: 1. Obama (and Holder) wanted to read Miranda rights to combatants. 2. Obama wanted to close down Gitmo. 3, Obama wanted to give terrorists civil trials and not military trials. 4. The Left was screaming about wire tapping terrorists. And now he just blew up an American citizen

Bingo!!!!!

Present company excluded, why don't most conservatives understand how and where to really attack Obama where he lives and breathes with his voters?

21 posted on 09/30/2011 8:16:09 PM PDT by Bokababe (Save Christian Kosovo! http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

Bin Laden wasn’t a US citizen.

While I agree that this scumbag needed to die, when the President starts targeting American Citizens, for whatever reason, justification can be found for targeting ANY American Citizen. It always starts with the most obviously deserving and works its way down from there to just about anyone.

As it is, conservatives are already terrorists in the eyes of the government. How long will it be before Hellfire missiles start landing on the houses of Tea Party activists?


22 posted on 09/30/2011 8:17:33 PM PDT by Larry - Moe and Curly (Loose lips sink ships.)
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To: Bokababe

I’m about as conservative as they come. I have a little angst about the administration’s attitude.

If an individual did the same (shoot a fleeing felon) they’d be arrested for murder!


23 posted on 09/30/2011 8:19:15 PM PDT by cpa4you (CPA4YOU)
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To: muawiyah
BS ~ AlAwlaki had a choice ~ he knew he was wanted. He could have arranged to surrender at any time. He didn't. Wasn't OUR FAULT that he evaded delivery of a warrant. That's the nature of war. It usually happens outside of court.

I really don't give a damn about al Awlaki per se. He probably got what he deserved. But it is the principle of the thing -- and it is these professed and undelivered principles on which Obama is vulnerable. And it is these principles which protect us all from Obama or any other president who decides he wants to push the envelope even further without ever even answering to the American people why.

24 posted on 09/30/2011 8:26:06 PM PDT by Bokababe (Save Christian Kosovo! http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe

Just imagine the public reaction of then Senator 0bama if President Bush had done such a thing.


25 posted on 09/30/2011 8:27:54 PM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: Bokababe

I thought of Saul Alinsky when I posted this. “Make them keep their rules. Point out their hypocrisy.”

The guy was obviously a bad guy. If this had been Bush the Left would be talking impeachment for blowing up an American citizen. For denying him his due process.

Bet we don’t hear a peep out of the ACLU.

This is the first time I think we (U.S. Government) have openly killed an American citizen on purpose. And bragged about it.


26 posted on 09/30/2011 8:30:21 PM PDT by cruise_missile
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To: Bokababe
There are no principles at stake in this case EXCEPT ONE ~ it is Obama's job to protect us from enemies.

This guy declared himself an enemy and made war on us.

I am glad Obama finally figured out what the job is about.

Now you? I don't know what we can do about your problem. You want Obama to answer to the American people "why"? I think you are confounding two talking points. First off American Presidents answer to the American people on election day, or if they get impeached by Congress.

Secondly, "why"? Every swinging d**k in this country knows why. Someone who doesn't realize we were attacked by this puke and his cronies ~ that they made war on us ~ that they tried to kill us ~ .............. well, anyway, you should see a doctor.

27 posted on 09/30/2011 8:33:32 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: cpa4you
In many states the Castle Doctrine says you can use deadly force against an assailant or robbery.

Yes, you can shoot a fleeing felon in enough places to keep you happy!

28 posted on 09/30/2011 8:36:13 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: cruise_missile
They just added another 280,000 to the count of Confederate war dead.

Now who is it you think killed all those people?

Maybe US Government bullets?

29 posted on 09/30/2011 8:37:15 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Bokababe

Two U.S.-Born Terrorists Killed in CIA-Led Drone Strike

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/30/us-born-terror-boss-anwar-al-awlaki-killed/#ixzz1ZUunmMrr


30 posted on 09/30/2011 8:39:39 PM PDT by cruise_missile
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To: Patrick1

IF we would have declared war, I would agree. Targeting people for assassination, whether it be OBL...or Al Walaki is very dangerous ground....tit for tat comes into play. We do not want these crazies targeting our elected officials or judges.


31 posted on 09/30/2011 8:42:23 PM PDT by runninglips (Republicans = 99 lb weaklings of politics.)
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To: Bokababe

BING BING BING...you echo my thoughts very closely


32 posted on 09/30/2011 8:43:16 PM PDT by runninglips (Republicans = 99 lb weaklings of politics.)
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To: runninglips

Just our citizens?


33 posted on 09/30/2011 8:44:10 PM PDT by Patrick1 ("The problem with Internet quotations is that many are not genuine." - Abraham Lincoln)
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To: Patrick1

No, killing a guy in the process of a raid, or a sweep when he resists is no problem. The US govt has prosecuted outstanding Marines, for very similar things though. It seems that if you are a soldier, and in fear of imminent reprisals, you must wait to be fired upon. If you are in the political class, you just identify who must die, and kill them. THAT is a hypocrisy that should not exist. We are either at war, with the intent to kill all bad guys until they yell “uncle” or we are not.


34 posted on 09/30/2011 8:48:05 PM PDT by runninglips (Republicans = 99 lb weaklings of politics.)
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To: Bokababe

Obama wanted to call this a man made disaster. Not a war.

Now Obama and company are calling it a war.
Where it is legal to blow up Americans.

Things are a changin’.

Remember when Gitmo was a bad bad bad thing.


35 posted on 09/30/2011 8:48:46 PM PDT by cruise_missile
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To: Bokababe

Bonnie and Clyde, Dillinger.
Awlaki.

Rooseveltian due process.


36 posted on 09/30/2011 8:49:32 PM PDT by MrBambaLaMamba (This Message Contains Privileged Attorney-Client Communications)
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To: muawiyah
Obama made the call he was supposed to make. The idea that some clown can sit overseas, intentionally and permanently removing himself from the jurisdiction of our legal system, and organize/launch attacks against Americans with impunity because he's a U.S. citizen, is nuts. We didn't put Superman capes on German-Americans who fought for Germany in WWII, and we shouldn't put one on this guy for fighting for AQ.

Those who say we should push this to make him look like a hypocrite should realize that it makes us look like hypocrites at the same time.

37 posted on 09/30/2011 8:52:57 PM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin
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To: Personal Responsibility
What law trumps the Constitution?

"No person shall... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law..." 5th amendment, Bill of Rights

I don't agree the President has the authority to declare, without due process of law, that someone is an enemy of the state and can be exectuted.

What do you do when the President declares you an enemy of the state?

"Rightwing extremism in the United States can be broadly divided into those groups, movements, and adherents that are primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups), and those that are mainly antigovernment, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely. It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration." - “Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment”, Department of Homeland Security, April 7, 2009

**********

William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!

Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!

Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!

38 posted on 09/30/2011 8:53:12 PM PDT by Gunslingr3
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To: runninglips

Couldn’t agree more. I took your comment to mean if we kill one of theirs with a drone they will do the same to us. I don’t agree that is something we should fear.

Rules of engagement should be clear. As Patton said, you never win a war by dying for your country, you win it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.

We have certainly lawyered up the war against Islamo Fascism.


39 posted on 09/30/2011 8:56:05 PM PDT by Patrick1 ("The problem with Internet quotations is that many are not genuine." - Abraham Lincoln)
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If Obama had any balls, he'd actually come forward and say, "This POS had actively waged war against the USA, and was directly responsible for a number of deaths of American citizens. He was not a criminal. He was an illegal enemy combatant, who is in no way covered by any of the covenants, accords, or agreements regarding warring parties. He was behind the slaughter of non-combatants, while hiding behind other non-combatants, placing them in direct danger. Had he been captured alive, the US military would have been within their rights to shoot him on sight."

Mark

40 posted on 09/30/2011 9:02:36 PM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: Bokababe
We fought to free ourselves from a capricious king over two centuries ago. When we have a president acting like a medieval monarch, we have a problem. “Off with their heads,” is not the way our founders envisioned the powers of the presidency.

Terrorist Awlaki needed to go, no doubt. We need to think, however, about the fact that Jay Carney et. al. weren't prepared for the question Tapper posed here. To assassinate someone who was considered an American citizen and feel like you wouldn't have to give an answer to the American public is the pinnacle of arrogance.

41 posted on 09/30/2011 9:10:39 PM PDT by IdratherbeatPemberley
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To: Bokababe; muawiyah
I think al Awlaki was in all likelihood a total scumbag who deserved no better than what he got.

But when a president plays judge, jury and executioner of an American citizen without due process of law -- and in fact actually denied Awlaki his right to even be represented by an attorney so that he could challenge the reasons for being put on this hit list -- that president better prepared to make his case to the American people to let them know why they are safe and why they aren't also in danger of being next on his list.

Thank you for posting this article and for articulating a principled position which very much needed to find a place here on Free Republic. Someone once said that first you give the accused a fair trial and then you hang him and it is kinda important to do it in that order. I read a lot of reactions on this thread confiding to us that al Awlaki has somehow forfeited his citizenship, or his rights as a citizen, or, and this has not been expressly articulated, his right to equal protection of laws.

The framers quite consciously created a divided government of checks and balances precisely to prevent the coalescence of legislative, executive, prosecutorial, and warmaking powers in one individual or even in one branch. If we have come to a place where the president of the United States can order the assassination of American citizens by merely invoking a label, "war" we are on the verge of abandoning the Constitution.

At the very least, as you point out, Obama owes the country some sort of explanation, an articulation of an Obama "doctrine" if you will, about the power of the Executive to kill Americans.

I applaud your courage in taking what you must have known would be an unpopular stand. I looked up your about page and read some of your posts in the forum. I would like to say that you're to be complemented for your clarity of expression, which only comes as the product of clear thinking, and for your resolute determination to eschew the ad hominem.

I share much of your opinion about Ron Paul even though I have published many replies dismissing him as a potential candidate on the basis of electability but not, certainly, because he lacks constitutional principle. Even as I dismiss him, I have always been careful to point out that it is the Republican Party and now the Tea Party which is coming to Ron Paul and not the other way around. This is especially true concerning the wars in Afghanistan and in Iraq. I fully agree with your observations that these wars are not making us safer. You are absolutely correct that our ability to project power abroad will be severely reduced by economic realities at home and, further, that will be strong abroad only as much as we are economically healthy at home. These are not necessarily my desires but my reading of reality.

Further, I hope Paul stays in the race as long as possible because his very presence shapes the debate in a very healthy direction.

If, as your name suggests, you are from Boca Raton, you are very brave indeed.


42 posted on 09/30/2011 9:11:54 PM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: Bokababe

Whatever!

I’m just glad that they offed this A-Hole!

As a CIA operation, I wonder if Petreaous will get the credit for taking out these ragheads, or will Zer0 push him off the stage????


43 posted on 09/30/2011 9:12:31 PM PDT by Noob1999 (Loose Lips, Sink Ships)
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To: Bokababe

The President did not kill anyone. The US military who is at war killed an enemy in that war.
Get over it and move on...


44 posted on 09/30/2011 9:18:26 PM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I sign up for the New American Revolution and the Crusades 2012?)
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To: runninglips

Let’s just assassinate Nidal Hussan. Why be troubled with these trials? Get the shoe bomber and the under wear guy out here and lets blow them up. Why are we not doing that to save the taxpayers money? This guy did internet stuff. Did he kill people? Is there evidence of that? Tapper is bulls eye on.


45 posted on 09/30/2011 9:28:23 PM PDT by PETENICK1
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To: Bokababe
Whether or not this creature is or was an American citizen, and whether his killing was justified by the threat he posed, there's another question that I believe needs to be asked.

Did the United States declare war on Yemen and it wasn't reported in the media?

Yeah, I know, President George W. Bush declared a "world-wide war on terror" and that got a lot of attention at the time. But what are the implications as far as national sovereignty, international law, and America's liability for collateral damage resulting from occasional mistargeting? (You all remember the accidental bombing of a Chinese embassy during one of Clinton's wag-the-dog wars, don't you?)

Let's reverse the scenario just to get a different perspective. Say the Russians have been seeking a terrorist implicated in the Beslan school massacre. He has been located to a place within the United States by the KGB's successor agency. Let's say he's holed up in Dearborn, Michigan. Yeah, Dearborn, not Detroit.

Now, the Russians dearly want this cretin dead for what he did a little over seven years ago. However, knowing the U.S. is going a little soft on aiding the Kremlin in their reprisals against Chechnyan rebels, and knowing 0bama is not very trustworthy, the Russians launch a clandestine hit on Dearborn to remove the terrorist from the face of the earth. It could be a bomb, a missile or a CD agent, it doesn't matter.

Now, is this attack justified? Should the United States retaliate or let it go? Russian never gave warning, never declared war. They just took action where they wanted to take out a terrorist.

This may not be hugh, but it could be series. Nuke series.

46 posted on 09/30/2011 9:35:56 PM PDT by logician2u
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To: Bokababe
Being he was wanted dead or alive after the indictment I don't see anything wrong with this killing.

Oops, there was no indictment.

Even Bin Laden was indicted and he wasn't even an American Citizen.

47 posted on 09/30/2011 9:44:39 PM PDT by tobyhill (A Democrat that doesn't lie would be a lie)
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To: nathanbedford
I think Obama is desperate to be re-elected he is willing to kill Americans. Just to prove he is tuff enough.

A few years ago this would have been outrageous. Especially if Bush had have done this.

I would like the Left to explain why it is OK now.

48 posted on 09/30/2011 9:46:40 PM PDT by cruise_missile
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To: Bokababe

I’m glad the guy is dead but in all actuality, he should have been extradited from where he was, charged with whatever crimes he’s suspected of, put on trial, and executed if found guilty. He was an American citizen, not a foreigner. We are a nation of laws with a justice system for our citizens, and the government doesn’t have the right to kill someone just because they don’t like them.


49 posted on 09/30/2011 9:53:20 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: Patrick1
I agree that the traitor should have been killed. But Obama should have the guts to come out and tell why it was done and why it was the right thing to do.

I also agree that he should have been killed, but I want to see a judicial process in place that precludes the executive branch from operating independently and capriciously. We've already seen Janet Napoletano deeming conservative "extremists" as "potential terrorists," and in writing. The existing process is a line that is just too thin.

No person shall ....be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;

All citizens either have a Fifth Amendment, or we don't. This is an awful precedent, especially in the hands of a Marxist.

50 posted on 09/30/2011 10:27:31 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
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