Skip to comments.Perry on in-state tuition for illegals: How else were they supposed to pay for it?
Posted on 10/01/2011 10:43:51 PM PDT by American Dream 246
Matt Lewis says hes improving on this issue. I guess, but thats mainly because after youve tried to win over voters by calling them heartless, theres really nowhere to go but up. A scene from New Hampshire this morning:
We have, for decades, had a federal government that has absolutely failed in its constitutional duty to defend our border, Perry said.
Im a governor. I dont have the pleasure of standing on the stage and criticizing. I have to deal with these issues, he later added.
Perry continued, In 2001, we had this choice: Are we going to kick these children over to the curb and say you cannot have access to college? Because the fact of the matter is theres no way they could pay the out-of-state tuition. And are we going to have them on the government dole over here because theyre not educated? Or are we going to have them in our institutions of higher learning, paying in state tuition, pursuing citizenship?
David Connors, the man who asked Perry the in-state tuition question, said he was satisfied with the governors answer.
Really? There are no jobs for illegals anywhere in Texas to earn tuition money? I was under the impression that there are quite a lot of jobs available to them, especially since Perry opposes e-Verify. This is the same sleight of hand he tried to use in the debate answer that got him in trouble, equating illegals opportunity to go to school in Texas with some sort of moral imperative among taxpayers to subsidize their education. (His wife, campaigning for him in Iowa, framed the choice as between tuition subsidies or welfare.) Somehow, the impoverished U.S. citizen from Mississippi is expected to pay his own way in Austin but the illegal whos lived in Texas for three years gets a stipend from the locals. And not just in terms of lower tuition rates; apparently they qualify for financial aid too. It must be awfully confusing for Perry, as a Texas Gaullist and vocal champion of state sovereignty, to find that prioritizing state residency over national citizenship doesnt play well with grassroots conservatives outside of Texas itself, but hed better find clarity soon.
Heres Romneys new ad bludgeoning Perry with praise he once received from former Mexican President Vicente Fox. After you watch, read this amusing scolding (which notes some of Mitts own immigration heresies) from former Bush speechwriter Michael Gerson, who seems genuinely surprised that Romney would pander so shamelessly on a divisive issue simply to destroy an opponent. That was the old, soulless Romney. The new, soulful Romney should be above that sort of thing. Right?
You are just heartless, that is all I can say, L ‘ Perry thinks you stink, now pay up.
The balance, of course, is paid by honest, legal taxpayers. Where else does Perry think the money comes from? This guy is really beginning to scare me.
One thousand percent correct. I say if your business model can’t pay market wages hen you have no model at all.
I am sure these children of illegal parents (that is parents that crossed the U.S. border illegally with their children) do pay for their college education with their own money. I hope you are not confused about what it means to pay in-state tuition rates. In my state your tuition costs are much lower than what an out-of-state student will pay. For students in our state it is a double-edged sword. Yes, our students pay reduced rate tuitions. However, the colleges limit the number of our students in favor of the increased money they can get from out-of-state students. Only exceptional in-state residency students get admitted. I am sure this happens in other states. So, in-state students of whatever race must be exceptional students if they get admitted to college. So why penalize these exceptional students because they happened to be children of parents who did the wrong thing? There is no situation in our culture where we punish children because their parents did the wrong thing. In fact, if the parents are bad enough, we take the children away from them and put them in foster homes. We are a people who believe in fairness.
So there are some scholarships available. As for loans, the Citibank Loan link on that page is broken. The Sallie Mae link works, but I don't know whether or not Sallie Mae provides student loans to illegals.
Especially when they parade and give the finger to the camera's and grab their crotch...They are not illegals they are an invasion and its not just mexicans that come across the southern border, its also terrorist, narc-terrorists and gang bangers....Some people in this country are just plain nutz....One of the biggest is the governor of Texas along with the idiot democrat female governor from a state I forgot that wants to suspect the next election cause democrats might lose congress....
If these people thought they could get away with it, conservatives would be in gulags and I am damn serious about that....
Not only do they get in-state tuition, they can qualify for state aid.
In-state tuition is just a lower tuition rate that a student pays if they are a resident of the state the college is located. Now, there are channels by which a student can get help in their tuition. All students can apply for scholarships, grants, student loans, and other methods to make the cost of education less of a burden. Most of the time such aid is given based upon the student's scholarship in high school. A 4.0 high school student will have many doors open to them. Colleges compete for such exceptional students and it should not matter what race they are.
You might ask, why should our students who are citizens lose the opportunity for a college grant to a non citizen? The answer is that if an education serves no purpose, then there is no reason to educate the child in the first place.
Finally, this nastiness about educating children of illegal parents is showing an unfairness that I have never seen in our culture. Never have we penalized the children for the bad actions of the parents. If anything, we have taken children away from parents who were bad enough. What this does is paint a bad picture of conservatives. There is a better way to handle this and the American people are looking at conservatives as not for the children.
Secure the border and deport the illegals. Texas has been trying to achieve this since long before we passed the law to prevent the children of illegals from attending our schools in the first place. It would be much better to keep them out.
Unfortunately, we don't have, and never have had, a Federal government willing to do this. Governor Perry knows what it's like to fight and fight and then to be refused help and reimbursement that was promised:
The State Criminal Alien Assistance Program (SCAAP) is a case study in the refusal of the federal government to do its job at our borders. SCAAP was created in 1994 to reimburse states for part of the cost of incarcerating illegal immigrants who commit crimes.
Naturally, however, SCAAP is more window dressing than real policy, as it is woefully underfunded. A study commission by the United States/Mexico Border Counties Coalition found that in 2006, border counties in California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas on the Mexican border received a total of only $4.7 million in SCAAP reimbursements, representing 9 percent of the costs of handling illegal immigrants who committed state crimes. Among just those border counties in Texas, the reimbursement rate was a mere 3 percent. The reimbursement rate is so low that some counties do not even apply for funding because it is not worth the cost of paperwork.
This is a joke. Arizona governor Jan Brewer has calculated that her state alone is owed &700 million in SCAAP funds since2003. Former Arizona governor Janet Napolitano wrote in 2008 that as governor, I must enforce the law and pay to incarcerate these individuals. The federal government just shrugs its shoulders and walks away from its statutory obligation Now serving as President Obamas Secretary of Homeland Security, she has not persuaded the federal government to step up to the plate. The bottom line is that while our federal officials jealously claim exclusive authority over immigration and border policy, they avoid actually securing the border. While they mandate that state taxpayers provide services, they rarely confront any of the associated costs. In so doing, the federal Government refuses to fulfill its most basic constitutional responsibilities. (pp. 121-122)
A grand, bipartisan compromise on immigration similar to the failed 1986 law was attempted in both 2006 and 2007. In the end, the bill died, largely because the American people had been to this rodeo before. According to an ABC News poll taken in the heat of the debate in 2007, two-thirds of Americans did not believe Congress was serious about controlling illegal immigration.
Now, the current administration willfully refuses to enforce the laws on the books. While President Bush didnt do as much as I had hoped, his administration did step up workplace enforcement, reducing the enticement for illegal immigration. President Obama on the other hand, has reversed course. He also has intentionally undermined one of the few successful measures the federal government has implemented. Section 287 (g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act allows the deputization of local law enforcement after training from federal authorities so that they may process illegal immigrants detained in the course of law enforcement activities for removal. This program simply allows local officials to aid Immigration and Customs Enforcement in the application of our laws.
Bowing to pressure from interest groups in favor of unchecked illegal immigration , the Obama administration has instead issued new requirements intended to curtail the program by making it more expensive, among other things. So the Federal government is now manipulating successful programs to stop willing local jurisdictions from doing the federal governments job themselves. (pp. 122-123)
(footnotes on this part refer to the explanation about Section 287 (g) at http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2010/03/time-to-stop-the-rush-for-amnesty-immigration-reform Perry, Rick (2010-11-15). Fed Up!: Our Fight to Save America from Washington . Little, Brown and Company. Kindle Edition.
Most people realize life isn't "fair" by the time they graduate high school, the rest vote democrat.
Here is the reality of the situation.
Funds are limited.
That means only so many students are able to get into schools at the in state rate.
THATS NOT FAIR.
Children of illegals get to claim minority status over those who aren't. So ALL ELSE being equal, minority status isn't.
THATS NOT FAIR
Illegals are more likely to work lower paying jobs, meaning THEY CAN'T PAY for Jrs. education. So now, because they are low income AND a minority, they qualify for grants and loans that don't have to be paid back.
THATS NOT FAIR.
Oh yeah, that grant that the illegals child got, that was partially funded by the taxes of parents of the citizen who can't go to school because the illegal took his spot.
THATS NOT FAIR
While senor and senorita illegal work in this country, maybe for cash, and don't pay taxes, they'll also go to the ER when ever they get sick, and get free healthcare. Joe citizen works hard, pays his taxes (which go for government schools and grants) and then buys his own health insurance with the money left over, and pays a deductible out of his pocket when his family gets sick.
THATS NOT FAIR.
At every turn Joe citizen does whats right and whats required. He pays his taxes and pays his bills and pays the way of his family. AND IS PENALIZED.
THATS NOT FAIR.
Jose Illegal comes into this country illegally, thumbing his nose at our laws, pays little or no taxes. And yet sponges off our welfare system. And then is rewarded with free education for his child.
THATS NOT FAIR.
Like I said earlier, there is limited funds. Whether for in state tuitions or grants or loans. That means some get in and some don't. Because of this, those who are citizens of this country, who are in state residents, who do pay into the system, THEY ARE THE ONES who should get ALL the available spots FIRST.
THEN, IF there is anything left over, THEN the child of the illegal can have access.
THAT IS ONLY "FAIR"
I never said they were grads or school kids, they were illegals, adults and mostly male and arrogant enough to make demands on this country...Since your post was so long and my attention span is rather short at 5 am I didn’t read past your first paragraph. So thats all I will answer....But you made an assumption on what I wrote that I didn’t write....try reading what is written and not what you think is written...GG
1000? and 15,000 illegals in tech and community colleges?
Did you think that’s low? That’s maybe 1% of the number of illegal children? Add the parents and the 10X more singles and you’ve got yourself a real problem.
Perry really should just stop talking about illegals and talk about other conservative things he’s done. He’s losing the conservatives that aren’t Texans.
Bull! It’s their parent’s fault. No one forced them to come here, they came illegally of their own free will and had children of their own free will. I’m sick to death of people not taking responsibility for themselves. American children born of American citizens have parents who commit crime and go to jail. That has a terribly adverse affect on these children. But it’s not the fault of the state whose laws were violated. This is no different. Either we enforce our laws or quit pretending we have them.
What about children whose parent committed a crime (well any crime except immigration laws which it seems exist merely to be ignored) the state throws daddy or mommy’s ass in jail which also “punishes” the child. That’s not the kids fault any more than mommy & daddy coming here illegally. Shouldn’t we find a way to appease & coddle these children as well? Life is never fair, but it’s good. There are children who lose a parent, have cancer, liver disease, abuse, molestation, or some other thing children shouldn’t ever have to face.
Parents that choose to break the law choose to put their children at risk, not the state.
To take a step back and view the big picture: Of 1.3 million college students in Texas in 2010, 1.2 percent (16,476) were illegal immigrants receiving tuition breaks through the affidavit route. (The even bigger picture: Texas 1.65 million illegal immigrants made up 6.7 percent of the states total population in 2010, according to the Pew Hispanic Center.)
Stated another way, only 1 percent of Texas illegal immigrants got the in-state rates in 2010. And of those, 73 percent got an average reduction of $2,600 or less; the remaining 27 percent average closer to $10,000 per year.
So lets return to Romneys statement: "Four years of college, almost $100,000 discount if you are an illegal alien (and) go to the University of Texas."
For the 612 affidavit students at the University of Texas last year, Romneys figure of $22,000 per year is approximately correct, even a bit low; but quadrupling the real average adds up to $90,800 over four years, not $100,000.
Not only is that UT tuition break the very highest that Romney could have cited among Texas public universities, it went to only 4 percent of the illegal immigrants who received in-state tuition rates last year.
The vast majority of affidavit students in Texas last year got an average in-state tuition reduction of $1,600 to $2,600. If they got that rate for four years, the total "discount" would be $6,400 to $10,400. And that group of 12,028 community college affidavit students made up less than 1 percent of the 1,364,911 college students enrolled in Texas last year.
Romneys $100,000 figure is only $9,200 off the mark for the University of Texas, but with 73 percent of affidavit students receiving $10,400 or less over four years, his choice to use UT as an example gives a skewed representation of the reality of illegal immigrants seeking college education in Texas
Since Hispanics get preferences in admission to Texas colleges, illegals get preferences for scholarship funds over legal nonminority Texans.
And that IMO is absolutely indefensible.
Whadda a load of crap! Have you become ‘heartless’ or lost your mind?
Seems that every significant issue Perry talks about — be it amnesty or e-verify — comes in 31 Baskin Robbins flavors. So by alluding to a particular flavor he can say he is either for it or against it.
Your post is spot on about the negligence of the federal government in their constitutional duty to secure our borders. We would not have the impact of the illegal population in our cities if the federal government did not do their job. Governor Perry has said that Texas has spent $400 million in border security as a desperate effort to prevent a catastrophe. That is money the state of Texas could use for better things.
Because the border is not secure, the illegals come in, creating problems for themselves, society and their children. We are experiencing what our forefathers experienced when Micks, Squareheads, Japs, Wops and etc (I used the derogatory nicknames to show how bad the reactions) disrupted American society when they poured off the boats. There must be a logical process to deal with the situation and the first step in that process is to seal our borders. We can deport them until the cows come home if we don’t stop them at the border. And how we react to the situation can give us a bad image as conservatives.
I went to greatschools dot org and this is the page for Houston
Then I went to Houston Elementary School, it is rated a 5 out of 10
94 percent Hispanic, 48 percent state average Hispanic
91 percent economically disadvantaged
$7,535 per year cost of each student
91 percent economically disadvantaged? Is this the governor we want for a president?
Ill check out another school, looks like they are all named Houston Elementary School.
Rated 4 out of 10
95 percent Hispanic
88 percent economically disadvantaged
Ill check out Houston High School
Rated 3 out of 10
39 percent Hispanic, 3 percent white
91 percent economically disadvantaged
Dang, doesnt look like Houston is doing so good with the economically disadvantaged.
I want this guy as my president Not!
Quoting Perry on giving in-state tuition to illegals:*** Is this guy brain-dead? *** YES. This proves it.
How else were they supposed to pay for it?
That is, undoubtedly, the MOST STOO-PID™ answer I have ever, EVER, heard on illegals and college tuition freebies.
Really. Even the RATS who control my 'wunnerful Ill-ear-noise' didn't say something that DUMB when they shoved in state tuitionfor illegals down our throats. And if an IL river-RAT politician couldn't think of something that ASININE to say, you know it's really, really, fricken dumb!
Honestly, this guy should just go away. He's an embarrassment to himself, republicans, and .. the human race.
(I think my 4 y.o. Yellow Lab has a higher IQ than Perry, and I'm series. Perry makes Biden look like Einstein)
You left out the welfare paid to these foreign nationals that get a reduced in-state tuition fee.
I found that site by accident a few years ago, and IMO it is fantastic. You can tell more about a city, state, or even a Rep's District, from the info on that website than from all the BS shoveled by any/all politicians combined.
I usually run to it when the race hustlers start the nonsense about 'inner city schools' not getting enough money compared to the suburbs. And natch, they're always lying.
Your rant is not too far off the mark, although it is all over the map. However, the States can’t deport any one. We can’t refuse to educate kids from Kindergarten through 12th grade, we can’t refuse emergency room care.
And the Feds are not deporting many. They actually bring illegals to Texas and send them over the border from our small towns, like Presidio and Del Rio. They have set up 11 Immigration and Customs detention centers in Texas for criminals they import from other states. They practice “catch and release,” letting the illegals go when they’ve been caught, and tell them to come back for a *hearing.* But over the last year or so, the DOJ dumped over 300,000 of those cases, dismissing the hearing and the not even trying to deport the illegals.
Now, if we can’t get the criminals who are actually in the system deported, what do you think the Feds will do about the 17 or 18 year old who gets into college?
I paid for mine by working 2-3 part time jobs, living in slum housing and eating a lot of pasta. That might still work if one is motivated.
This is how I KNOW Perry is a phony/fake. No conservative would refer to 18 year olds as children. We are talking about adult foreign nationals on our soil who could apply to state universities like any other foreign national.
One, Perry is saying that those who are GED or high school educated are a drain, here, "on the government dole over here because they're not educated?" Not educated? He is talking about, and insulting, people who have a high school diploma or equivalent.
Two, he again claims the illegals are or must be "pursuing citizenship." This is misleading, at best. I find it to be totally false, and essentially a bald-faced lie.
A state cant deport anyone, but they can discourage foreigners with E-Verify. If there are no jobs, they wont come.
Rick Perry will not even mandate E-Verify for state jobs, much less the entire state. There can only be one answer to this, he is a one-worlder and doesnt recognize the border.
As far as I know, every state distinguishes between "residence" (which can be shorter than an overnight stay in a hotel) and "domicile." "Domicile" is "home." "Residence" is where you are.
Dork, 18 year olds are not children the last time I checked. Get a real argument.
Signed: Heartless in Virginia
They shouldnt be here in the first place. Is he really that stupid or is he putting us on?
The more I hear from this jerk, the more I dont like him.
However, the terms "postsecondary education benefit" and "residence" are not defined in the federal law. In addition, no Texas or federal court has construed these terms or considered the substantive application of the federal law to a statute similar to the Texas statutes. Thus, while a federal or state court in Texas, following the reasoning of an intermediate California state appellate court decision, could find that 8 U.S.C. 1623 preempts Education Code sections 54.052(a)(3) and 54.053(3) to the extent of the conflict with the federal law, given the paucity of judicial precedent, this office cannot predict with certainty that a court would so find.
My parents were divorced.
My dad was "disabled" from a job, and didn't pay any child support.
I worked full time at a hot dog stand, to pay may own way through Jr college, including books and gas back and forth.
Not only did I work full time, but was also a full time student. It wasn't uncommon for me to work 50-60 even upwords of 70 hours a week during winter and spring breaks. 40-50 hrs a week during the summers.
I did that for 3 years. Got an associates in auto mechanics and a certificate of completion in welding.
Got offered a job and hired by one of my welding instructors, before I finished my last courses.
Today I'm a pipefitter/ certified welder. I'm certified in multiple welding processes and have welded in oil refineries, steel mills, nuke plants and other places.
50-60 hour weeks are still typical + driving 2-1/2 hours a day round trip.
Just started going back to school (after 26 years) to become a certified welding inspector, 3 hrs a week plus 2 hrs round trip travel, on top of working 60 hrs a week.
Like you said "That might still work if one is motivated. "
You have a way with name-calling. Should I report you to the Moderator? Your comment is a straw-man argument. Get some sleep.
Are 18 year olds children, yes or no?
Let them get educated on their own dime in their own country, Perry.
Yeah, I get that a lot. So many thoughts, trying to compress them into a small area or small time frame. And my typing is pretty much one maybe two fingers each hand.
Of course, when I get into discussions at work, I have the same problem.
I think if I was growing up today, instead of the 70's and 80's, I think I'd be labled ADHD.
AT work, I have to really lock into what I'm doing, or I get bored real easy and real fast, and get distracted. But when I'm locked in, look out. Its lead, follow or get out of the way. Preferably GET OUT OF THE WAY.
In property law, that's called "adverse possession."
There are also legal doctrines that inhibit taking a legal action, because one "sat on it" for too long. "Statute of limitations" is one, pretty well known, another is "the equitable doctrine of laches."
All roughly "you snooze, you lose" principles.
I can well see a US federal court asserting some flavor of this in favor of people in the country illegally, captured and released. The feds could have deported, but chose not to; therefore, they cannot deport.
Trust in the federal government to "do the right thing" when it comes to immigration (and a few other subjects) is misplaced.
Naturally, as opposed to "rule of law."
Not that I have any respect for the law, mind you.
It is a great website, I managed to get my kid into a school rated 10 out of 10 and I urge other parents to do the same. It makes a world of difference. This is your kid, this is their life.
My daughter was being teased by the Mexicans for being smart in her old school. Why? She would come home crying all the time, she is very emotional. Now, every day, she comes home with a smile and stories to be told.
Her old school was not that bad, only 50 percent Mexican. Her new school is more evenly mixed with every ethnicity.
In her old school, the kids all had skeletons and skulls on their clothes, even infant ware. When I visited the new school, I pointed out to my wife that there were no skulls and skeletons on their clothes.
Pay attention parents. If you can get your kid into a non-union school, your kids will be way ahead. In her new school, the parents take an active part in their kids education. Id expand on the differences, but that is off topic.
Then, why educate these children in our high schools? The high school education has no purpose.
What it comes down to is you are trying to punish the children for the actions of the parent. In that way you are trying to punish the parent through their children. Our society should never stoop to such tactics. We are too civil of a society and have never acted in such a low handed way before. As conservatives, we get a bad name when we call for such action.
So if a child of an illegal parent graduates from a high school with a 4.0 gradepoint, shouldn’t that achievement be rewarded with the same opportunity the rest of the students who have similar achievement?
The minority status treatment I agree is unfair. All of it. I don’t understand it and some day, this progressive smut on our society will be cleaned up by good people who know true fairness.
The true unfairness is we have not sealed our border so that good citizens have their society disrupted by the negligent control of the population. That illegal parents expose their children to the risk of consequence is a recklessness I find objectionable. They would not have acted with such a risk if the border was not so easy to cross and the society they found was not so civil.
The bottom line is that in order to have a civil society, we have to make some trade-offs that challenge us.
The Perrywinkles continue to talk out of both sides of their mouth. They say the feds are supposed to control immigration - it's not Texas' responsibility. Then they go on to yammer at us endlessly about how illegals paying in state tuition is a state's rights issue.
Perry has these people convinced that they can do whatever they want whenever they want because they are Texas and only federal laws that benefit them are the ones they want.
Whats not a straw man is that there are ONLY so many slots for in state tuitions and so many grants available. That means somebody HAS to be rejected. In order to accept illegals or their children, a citizen MUST BE REJECTED.
Is THAT "fair"???
Our nation is $14.6 TRILLION in debt. We Are adding $1.6 TRILLION every year.
Wanting to help people is admirable, BUT there is this thing called reality. That reality says that there are only so many openings in schools and there is only so much money to pay for things. Not everybody is qualified and not everyone can afford it.
THOSE are just the cold hard facts of life.
I didn't grow up with the same advantages as most of my friends. Was that "FAIR"???
Should my friends have been penalized in order to make things more "FAIR" to me???
That's an interesting slant. I'm not poor, but most of the crew I associate with would be hard-pressed to find it in their budget to pay ytthe in-state rates. Adding $100K to it would price them right out of the picture. But I suppose them illegals have a higher earning potential than the average Joe.