Mormon teaching is that the wife will not be head of her own kingdom. Only the husband. Not sure what happens to unmarried women. Would the left wing media approve of this obvious bias against women?
Of course, now that mormonism has been injected into the debate, it’ll never be mentioned again. Perry was either in on it or he’s a useful idiot.
This argument has always annoyed me. Article VI is a prohibition against the GOVERNMENT using a religious test, not a prohibition against a citizen using it to determine his or her vote.
Mormons devote and commit to their religion; their CHURCH.
Christians are Christians because they live their lives following Jesus Christ.
It’s the difference between saying, “I’m a ball player” and I play ball for the New York Yankees..”
Does it really matter whether anyone knows or believe thay are or aren’t? Why not just let God take care of that and quit worrying about others?
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I’m getting sick and tired of FOX and Laura Ingraham, Chris Christie-Rove types telling me that I’m a bigot because I don’t believe Mormons are Christians.
They are not!
Some are; some aren't.
Are Catholics Christian?
Some are; some aren't.
Are Methodists Christian?
Some are; some aren't.
Are Mormons Christian?
Some are; some aren't.
Now please don't misunderstand. I am not arguing that Mormonism is simply another denomination of the Christian faith. I don't believe that. I believe that theologically, Mormon-ism is way, way outside of the mainstream. The list of doctrines that are extra-biblical is extremely long—starting with the idea that the writings of Joseph Smith are scripture. And his writings (I include the Book of Mormon among them) are the source of most of the rest of the difference between Mormonism and the Christian faith.
But... I count a number of Mormons among my best friends. And in nearly every case, I would consider them to be Christians, even as I consider the theology of their church to be non-Christian. They have, as I have, accepted Jesus Christ as the one who has died on a cross to provide for their individual salvation and the only one through whom salvation is even possible.
Do Mormons mean something different by that than I do? Some do and some don't. But you have to ask yourself whether a Baptist means exactly the same thing soteriologically and Christologically as a Catholic, or a Methodist, or a Lutheran, or a Presbyterian. Examine each of their doctrines and practices and you will find a lot of dis-similarity.
Unless my friends in all these denominations are completely lying about it, in most cases (though not all) after considerable questioning and discussion, I think we share the same bottom line. Does that necessarily apply to each and every member of their respective theological groups? No.
Does that mean that I believe the Romney's or Huntsman's Mormonism is a non-issue. Of course not. When I vote for a presidential candidate I want to know everything I can about them. (Something we have been completely denied regarding the current occupant of the office.) I want to know what makes them tick and that includes their faith, their beliefs about the Constitution, the role of government, what they believe about how economies work, and what they believe about national defense. I want to know all that and more.
Would I vote for Romney? I would prefer not to but his Mormonism is pretty far down the list of reasons why not. Still, if it comes down to Romney or Obama, I would stand with Luther who said, "I would rather be ruled by a competent Turk, than an incompetent Christian."
(Ironically, it might be the case that in our current scenario, Obama might be an incompetent Turk and Romney might be a less than competent Christian, but I digress.)
So who is more competent? Obama or Romney? Relatively speaking, I don't think that is a difficult question to answer. But I pray that is not the choice we have to make.
Any citizen who paid any attention to the Values voter Summit— Or to the Fundamental changes of this present Administration ought be able to see the results of the divorce between America and our founding Religion. From the changes in our Military training Repeal of DADT and plans to Repeal DOMA as but two examples. Mr.Fischer made more sense at the summit than any other person I have heard on what a President ought look like. A series of Legal opinion 1878-1890 on bigamy, polygamy, and “marriage “in a Christian nation suggest once upon a time in America the church invented by Joseph Smith in the mid 1800’s was considered non-Christian—or at best near Christian.
No, they aren’t Christians. Been there, done that.
Mormons are as “christian” as the Roman Catholic Church is..
Mormon teachings are no stranger than RCC teachings are..
Its true Scientology is a bit stranger as Jehovah Witness doctrine is as well..
There are cultish aspects within all mainstream denominations..
Sheep Pen theology is mostly about the pen than the sheep..
(John ch 10)....
Is the Mormon Church Christian? No, not even close. It teaches an entirely different (and far inferior) God the Father, God the Son and Holy Spirit, along with many other damnable heresies.
Are some Mormons Christians despite the doctrines of their church? Probably, though most will eventually see the light and come out of the LDS.
Is Mormonism a cult? Theologically? absolutely. Socialogically (which is how the average person defines “cult”)? Debatable. It certainly has some cultic aspects, but the line between legitimate, religious peer pressure and manipulation and mind control is sometimes blurry.
Is it OK for a Mormon to be POTUS? I think we should wait until such time as a Mormon who would otherwise be an at least somewhat, acceptable candidate for POTUS emerges. Romney and Hunstman are utterly unacceptable based upon their Liberal politics and records, so the “Should we elect a Mormon POTUS?” discussion is moot, at this point in time.
Jesus Christ, miraculously (through the power of the Holy Spirit) born of the Virgin Mary, is my Savior and author of my Salvation. His atonement and redemption in the Garden and on the Cross have saved me, and it is that alone that has saved me. This is the same Christ, written of in the Holy Bible, which I accept as God's word and His scripture, who was born in Bethlehem, raised by the caprenter, Joseph in Nazareth. He taught in the Temple when young, he grew up and taught His gospel, performed great miralces, healing the sick, feeding the multitudes, raising the dead. He chose His disciples. He hismelf said He was the Christ and the Son of Almighty God. He was unjustly tried by the Jews and the Romans,and was crucified according to Biblical prophesy for the sins of mankind and rose the third day. He will return to this Earth and reign in honor and glory through a glorious Millennium. I look forward to the day of His return.
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. What many call a Mormon. We do have different beliefs about the Godhead. We believe in three, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. We believe they are seperate and distinct individuals and turn to the Bible itself of that interpretation. Christ indicated indeed that He and the Father are one, but in the great intercessory prayer, he explained exactly what that meant when he prayed to the Father and asked that His discplies might be one, even as He and the Father were one. He prayed to the Father...not to himself. He said He came to do the will of His Father, not His own will. His Father's voice was heard at His baptism and on the mount...seperate from His own. The martyr Steven saw Christ sitting individually next to the Father.
We also believe that we are saved through faith and grace. Our own actions are not sufficient to save us...but we do believe that Christ indicated, very clearly in the Bible that there were certain things that we, as His disciples should do...necessary as a part of our salvation. He said if we love Him, we will keep His commandments...and His apostles taught (notably John) that if we did not keep His commandments, His love was not in us. He sent His disciples forth to baptise and indicated that they who believed aand were baptised would be saved, and they who did not would not. These are all things that various denominations interpret differently and have differences over...and that is fine.
We believe, as Paul taught, that the Church of Christ is made up of Apostles, and Prohets, evangelists, bishops, etc. We believe that His Church was restored to the earth...not for "Mormons" but for all mankind and we go about teaching people of it. We believe that all mankind, whenever and wherever they have lived throughout history will be brought to a knowledge of Christ in this life, or before the judgement in the spirit world, so they can either accept or deny His salvation. We believe Christ himself set up this great work on the other side after He was cruicified and before he was resurrected when he "taught the spirits in prison," according to Biblical verse. We do not worship Jospeh Smith or set him up equal in any instance to Jesus Christ. We believe Christ used Him to perform a mission and that mission was the restoration of Christ's full church, also as prophesied in the Bible, with Prophets and Aposles and all that Paul spoke of. Do others believe the time for that is past? Yes. And that is fine as a part of their faith. We also have the Book of Mormon, which itself clearly states that it is a second witness of Christ and goes along with the Holy Bible (which we also believe in as Holy Scripture) to witness of Him. It does not repace the Bible...it is not "another Bible," we believe it is a witness of Christ from ancient America. Do thers believe we do not need this witness? Yes...and that too is fine according to the dictates of their faith. Joseph Smith ultimately sealed his mission, despite whatever faults he had...and he had them for he was a human and imperfect...with his own blood.
We believe that when Christ said, in Matthew to "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect," that he meant it and that our ultimate purpose, through His salvation is to do so. But that would be in the far hereafter. We believe what Paul said, in Romans when he said, "We are the Children of God, and if children, then heirs, and joint heirs with Christ if so be that we suffer with Him, that we might also be glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that shall be revealed in us."
I witness, in all humilty, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind. He is my personal Savior and the only one to whom I look for salvation. That is a true and sincere statement. It is He who will judge me. By most all Chrsitian standards, that statement of acceptance of Jesus Christ means to most that I am saved. The Bible teaches that it is only through the power of the Holy Ghost that I can make such a witness...and I so witness now.
The other differences notwithstanding...they ar miniscule when compared to the saving grace of Jesus Christ which I freely accept and teach.
It is what my church teaches. It is what I teach my children and grandchildren. In the end...Jesus Christ is the Chief and principle cornerstone of it all. Without Him and His atonement all else is meaningless.
Are there those in the church who lean more heavily one doctrine or another? Yes. There are in all Chrsitian denominations. Are there bad apples amongst us? Yes...as there are in any large organization. Any Christian church is really a hospital for sinners...all of us. So yes, mistakes are made and sometimers emphasis is misplaced. But the grounding teachings of Jesus Christ and Him crucified are the basis for it all and that is the crucial doctrine.
A Christian is a follower of Christ and His gospel, who accepts Him as their Savior and who believes in His Father, and in the Holy GHost, and who believes He will return in a glorious second coming. I believe all of these things...though my interpretation of them may be different than yours. Nonetheless, I believe them with all my heart and follow them and try and teach them to others.
I beleive in Christ, I teach of Christ, I look forward to His coming, and I thank God in Heaven for Him and His salvation and for the witness of the Holy Ghost which has born it into my heart and soul.
These are all good things and we should all rejoice in anyone who comes to this knowledge. I do...even if they come to that knowledge outside of the LDS church...I know that their heartfelt testimony and acceptance of Christ will bear them up. Of course, in our faith, I believe they will utlimately also learn about the truths we teach...but that is for the future and for God himself to decide. In the end, if we are true followers of Christ, when He comes and enfolds us in His arms, if we love Him, we will do as he bids...even if it is not altogether what we thought in life. I know I will...I pray all of us will.
Others may seek to discount this, my testimony. But they cannot destroy it because it is between my and my Savior and it He who will judge me. I testify that my witness is sincere, humble and true, irrespective of what others may say about me and my church. I plead with people to get to know members of the Church, ask them what they believe, observe their lives and who they commit themselves to in life and then judge for themselves. The Savior taught that by their fruits ye shall know them,. Get to know them and see their fruit.
I have placed this in this thread with one object...to provide a witness and testimony contrary to much of what has been said here...and to do so honestly and humbly. I am not seeking arguement, not trying to "prove" anyone wrong...just giving my own witness and letting people know some of what we believe and why. I will not follow this up with a public bash and arguement of theological princple. The key and core element on which all else hingeds...for any of us IMHO...is the core witness and believe and acceptance of Jesus Christ, born in Bethlehem of the Virgin Mary and crucified on Calvary as our Redeemer and Savior.
Anyone who believe in Jesus Christ and Him crucified...and who knows that His gospel and the fundamental moral principles He taught are the bedrock foundation of our republic and our Liberty is my ally...even if they naysay my faith,. I will not naysay their faith in Jesus Christ because that collective faith is what is important if we are to restore this Republic. We are and should be allies in this fight, and I do all I can to reach out and work with others accordingly. Anyone who knows my history on these boards and my involvement in numerous activities on behalf of liberty knows this is true.
Again, I thank all who have prayed for and joined their faith with my own and that of my family in my recent health crisis with cancer. The prayers of the faithful...a large portion of which are not members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, were effecive and instrumentaal in my life and I humbly thank all who exerted their prayers and faith on my behalf. We are brothers and sisters and I plead with all to join together and not let the adversary or a spiirit of dissention split us apart as we fight for our nation.
God's blessings and speed to you all.
BTW, for those interested...at this point, since Sarah Palin indicated she is not running, I am a proud supporter of Herman Cain. We simply must defeat Obama and replace him and his cohorts with individuals in the House, Senate, and White House with individuals of strong moral character dedicated to fundamental conservative princples.
Agains, sorry for the length of this post.
Or, the ¨Son of God¨ was so written of by others. ¨Our Father¨, by which Jesus is said to have taught the masses to pray, doesn´t contain a hint of ¨Christianity¨.
Here are the words to the Mormon song “Praise to the Man,” an ode to Joseph Smith that reflects Mormon theology. There are several recordings of the tune on Youtube.
1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.
[Chorus]
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.
2. Praise to his memory, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Plead unto heav’n while the earth lauds his fame.
3. Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.
4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know “Brother Joseph” again.
Well said!
Mormons have spent over 150 years honing the "we poor mormons are SO persecuted" message. Romney can't possibly win on his record, so he's counting on the left (who sees him as easy for Obama to defeat) to deliver the nomination to him.
FReepers should not make the chore easy for Romney and his liberal enablers by buying in to the "persecution" crap.
...and if anyone comes preaching a different Gospel,even if an angel from Heaven.....let them be eternally condemned...(Galatians)
Mormonism is a CULT! The FOUNDATIONAL doctrines of Mormonism are those of a non-biblical CULT. Mormons are NOT Christians, never have been, never will be, no matter what they say about themselves or what they call themselves.
Mormons have spent their entire history DENYING that Mormons were "Christians" or had anything to do with Christianity which they believe is ENTIRELY APOSTATE. Now, all of a sudden, after over a hundred years, Mormons are calling themselves and their CULT "Christian". Why? Because the CULT believes the populace is so theologically uninformed and stupid regarding the basic doctrines of BIBLICAL Christianity that the CULT can now get away with calling itself "Christian".
Sadly, based upon the responses of so-called "Christians" and "the man on the street" posting here on FR, on blogs, on line and in answer to this questions asked by interviewers... it looks like Mormonism deceptive assumption is true.
After YEARS of soundly refuting Mormons claim that it is "Christian", we still have people raising the ridiculous question: "Are Mormons Christian?"
NO
mormonISM is not Christianity.
The answer rests on how generous one wants to be in regarding heresies as defective versions of Christianity and still allowing them to bear the name.
As an Orthodox Christian, I am inclined to give some latitude in the use of the name “Christian” without further adjectives, and even more latitude if an adjective distinguishing the heretics from Orthodox Christians is appended (for example, I have no objection to the use of the word “Christian” in the sentence “The Vandals were Arian Christians,” despite the fact that Arianism was precisely the heresy against which the Nicene Creed was set forth.)
Mormon triadology and soteriology are both so defective that I think a qualifying adjective to remind us of their heresy is needed before I would not object to Mormons being characterized as “Christians”. And certainly Mormon “baptism” is completely invalid: Mormons must be received into the Church by baptism and chrismation, rather than through economia by chrismation only as is normal for those baptized in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit by most Christian confessions.