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Ohio Division of Wildlife considers opening deer hunting to certain center-fire rifles
Buckeye Firearms Association ^ | 12 October, 2011 | cbaus

Posted on 10/13/2011 5:23:33 AM PDT by marktwain

Outdoor writer Jeffrey L. Frischkorn recently publicized discussions at the Ohio Division of Wildlife to open deer hunting to firearms other than certain handguns, shotguns and muzzle-loading rifles.

From the article:

As for the future of deer management in Ohio, that is a subject under review, said [Mike Tonkovich, the Ohio Division of Wildlife's deer management administrator].

The biologist is in the process of sending out a random survey of all licensed Ohio hunters. One of the questions being asked is whether hunters would support an antlerless-only muzzle-loading season in October.

Also being explored is whether to liberalize the regulations more by allowing certain types of rifles for use in deer hunting during the firearms hunting season.

A potential problem with such a change would be a hunter would simply switch from using a shotgun to a rifle, rather than drawing in new hunting recruits.

"There are good arguments on both sides of this issue, and I'm happy we are discussing this topic," Tonkovich said. "We have an obligation to go to the table. That's progress, frankly."

Buckeye Firearms Association leaders Larry Moore, Aaron Kirkingburg, and "Buckeye" Dan Allen have been participating in discussions on this issue with the Division of Wildlife for some time now. Following is the proposal submitted by BFA:

Rifle Hunting Proposal for Ohio

* Any cartridge currently legal to hunt with in a handgun, would be legal in a rifle.

No complex or confusing regulations or list of “rifle only” cartridges. The parameters for handgun cartridges would be kept exactly as they are, so there will be no additional “layer” of regulation specific to rifles. * Black powder cartridge rifles would be legal during regular gun season.

Not to be confused with muzzle loaders, and no inclusion in any of the primitive weapon seasons. Caliber requirements remain the same as pistols in that anything .357 or larger in a black powder cartridge would be legal. * Compliance for 3 shot rule using dummy rounds, or similar "simple" fix.

Find a system of compliance for the three shot rule that does not require costly permanent, or semi permanent modifications to the firearm. * Sunset provision giving DNR an "out" in 4-6 years if unforeseen problems result.

Include a time frame for the "trial period" in which a field assessment of the new regulations can take place. Thus giving the Division of Wildlife, and the Wildlife Council an intact system for returning things to the way they were. Include parameters for allowing the regulation to sunset vs. become law. * Make these changes effective state wide if possible.

At least the pistol caliber cartridges should be state wide. If any "zoning" is to occur, limit the black powder cartridges to "foothill" counties. Leaving Glaciated Ohio, or "the flatland" counties closed to the use of black powder cartridges.

Buckeye Firearms Association will continue to provide updates to this effort as new information becomes available.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: banglist; hunt; oh; rifle
I find all the local hunting regulations interesting.
1 posted on 10/13/2011 5:23:40 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

I think the ban on using rifles in Ohio is supposed to be due to the flatness of our land.

Buckshot and pumpkin balls don’t travel as far.

Next door in hilly PA, rifles are ok.


2 posted on 10/13/2011 5:28:57 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: Pessimist

i wish michigan would let us use rifle throughout the state.


3 posted on 10/13/2011 5:35:28 AM PDT by absolootezer0 (2x divorced tattooed pierced harley hatin meghan mccain luvin' REAL beer drinkin' smoker ..what?)
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To: Pessimist

Here in Michigan the rifle regulations are due to population. You can’t use them for deer hunting here in the far south but north of Lansing they’re OK.


4 posted on 10/13/2011 5:37:33 AM PDT by cripplecreek (ALCS/NLCS playoff thread http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2789907/posts)
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To: absolootezer0

Yeah it just takes a little common sense.


5 posted on 10/13/2011 5:39:19 AM PDT by cripplecreek (ALCS/NLCS playoff thread http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2789907/posts)
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To: marktwain

Indiana did this several years ago. The lever action carbine in 44 mag is perfect for 100+/- yards. I hope Illinois considers it soon.


6 posted on 10/13/2011 5:43:29 AM PDT by BobinIL
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To: cripplecreek

yup. it doesn’t make sense that it’s ok for me to target shoot and hunt small game with a rifle, but i can’t use them on the same property for deer.


7 posted on 10/13/2011 5:52:45 AM PDT by absolootezer0 (2x divorced tattooed pierced harley hatin meghan mccain luvin' REAL beer drinkin' smoker ..what?)
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To: Pessimist

What about rifled shotgun barrels with sabboted ballistic slugs?


8 posted on 10/13/2011 6:05:30 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: marktwain

I don care if they use a Howitzer as long as they kill them down enough so I can drive the road without ducking them.

Damn things are everywhere. In the evenings they are all over the roads.


9 posted on 10/13/2011 6:07:43 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: Pessimist

Iowa deer hunters are limited to shotgun slugs. I think there was an attempt to add pistols but don’t know if this passed the legislature.


10 posted on 10/13/2011 6:08:33 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: marktwain
Today's 12 ga rifles are a far cry from grandpa's 12 ga single shot full choke shotgun that shot a 1 oz lead slug.

Plagiarized from Chuckhawks.com

From the web site: http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_slugs.htm

Sabot slugs

These days most of the major shotshell manufacturers also offer sabot slug loads for 12 and 20 gauge shotguns. These are for use only in fully rifled barrels. How a long arm with a fully rifled barrel can be termed a "shotgun," I fail to understand, but that is beside the point. These loads are essentially equivalent to the kind of loads used in modern, high performance muzzleloading rifles.

Since the Remington catalog is still open in front of me, I will use their sabot slugs as representative of the type. Bear in mind that, as with sabot bullets for muzzleloaders, they're plenty of variations available.

Remington offers 12 and 20 gauge Premier sabot loads with both JHP bonded lead core bullets and solid copper hollow point bullets. The former are called "Premier Core-Lokt Ultra," and latter are "Premier Copper Solid."

The 12 gauge Core-Lokt Ultra sabot bullet is a .50 caliber, 385 grain HP semi-spitzer. The catalog MV is 1900 fps and the 100 yard velocity is 1648 fps. The ME is given as 3086 ft. lbs. and the remaining energy at 100 yards is 2325 ft. lbs. The trajectory of that load looks like this: +1.8" at 50 yards, +2.4" at 100 yards, and +/- 0" at 150 yards.

The 20 gauge sabot bullet weighs 260 grains. It also has a MV of 1900 fps, and its velocity at 100 yards is given as 1615 fps. The ME is 2084 ft. lbs., and the remaining energy at 100 yards is 1506 ft. lbs. The trajectory of that load looks like this: +2.0" at 50 yards, +2.7" at 100 yards, and +/- 0" at 150 yards.

As I wrote at the outset, this are similar to the ballistics obtainable with high performance, .50 caliber, inline muzzleloading rifles. Accuracy is apparently not quite as good as the best muzzleloaders, as Remington claims consistent 2 1/2" 5-shot groups at 100 yards. But that is impressive accuracy from any kind of shotgun--even if it is really a rifle!

Clearly, the use of these sabot bullet loads completely negates the rationale behind the "shotgun only" deer hunts. Not only are these shotguns with rifled barrels technically rifles, they shoot like rifles. In fact, they equal traditional big game rifle cartridges such as the .45-70 and .38-55.

11 posted on 10/13/2011 6:15:03 AM PDT by TYVets (Pure-Gas.org ..... ethanol free gasoline by state and city)
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To: Venturer
I don care if they use a Howitzer as long as they kill them down enough so I can drive the road without ducking them.

Damn things are everywhere. In the evenings they are all over the roads.AA

A few years ago the State of Iowa in conjunction with automobile insurance companies came with a short phrase:

Don't Veer For Deer!

It sounds a bit corny, but with people killed because the driver went off the road and hit a tree or had a head on crash with another vehicle it could be good advice.

12 posted on 10/13/2011 6:27:08 AM PDT by TYVets (Pure-Gas.org ..... ethanol free gasoline by state and city)
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To: Pessimist

It’s an anachronism from the agrarian days.

Yes Ohio still has loads of farms but there certainly aren’t armies of workers in the fields, only mechanized equipment now.


13 posted on 10/13/2011 6:37:58 AM PDT by relictele (Pax Quaeritur Bello)
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To: TYVets

What is a 12 gauge rifle ?


14 posted on 10/13/2011 6:38:12 AM PDT by wordsofearnest (Proper aim of giving is to put the recipient in a state where he no longer needs it. C.S. Lewis)
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To: marktwain

Can you use a T/C Encore?

As a pistol, it is chambered in nearly every rifle cartridge imaginable.


15 posted on 10/13/2011 6:46:44 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (Cain for President - Because I like the content of his character)
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To: TYVets

Great advice until one comes through the windshield and lands in your lap.

The car’s front end has to be high enough to hit the deer in the side and not hit under the belly.


16 posted on 10/13/2011 6:48:16 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: marktwain

Do all those words mean that my Yugo M24/47 will rack up its first kill?


17 posted on 10/13/2011 6:50:44 AM PDT by Rannug ("God has given it to me, let him who touches it beware.")
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To: Erik Latranyi

The Ohio DNR web site lists this as the handgun requirement:

“handgun with 5-inch minimum length barrel, using straight-walled cartridges .357 caliber or larger”

So any necked rifle cartridge would not be acceptable.


18 posted on 10/13/2011 6:54:43 AM PDT by gtk
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To: wordsofearnest
What is a 12 gauge rifle ?

A 12 gauge bolt action shotgun with a rifled barrel, sorry I left off the words bolt action.

I think Browning makes one using their A Bolt action and Savage makes one using their 110 bolt action. There maybe others.

Remington has rifled barrels for pumps and semi-autos.

Hastings makes rifled barrels for shotguns as well.

If they can kill a deer at 200 yds with a modern sabot load they sure sound like a rifle to me.

19 posted on 10/13/2011 6:58:25 AM PDT by TYVets (Pure-Gas.org ..... ethanol free gasoline by state and city)
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To: marktwain
Oh no! People will then own and become proficient in shooting HIGH POWERED SNIPER RIFLES. Can't have that. /sarcasm

In my state in the deep, deep South, we use rifles. Most people also hunt out of some sort of raised stand when still hunting so the bullet ends up in the deer or the ground. And yes, we still hunt with dogs, although becoming less common over the years. No problem with rifles either way.

20 posted on 10/13/2011 7:04:27 AM PDT by A. Patriot (Have we lost our Republic? Do the majority of Americans care?)
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To: BobinIL

You and me both. Actually this was brought up in session and passed the house. it is now in the Senate. Looks like it will become the law next year.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=1163&GAID=11&DocTypeID=HB&SessionID=84&GA=97


21 posted on 10/13/2011 7:14:08 AM PDT by lakeman (Semper Fi)
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To: IMR 4350
Great advice until one comes through the windshield and lands in your lap.

Agreed

Perhaps to plant an idea in the minds of drivers before a deer popped out on the road in front of then.

Just my guess that the idea was to hit your brakes rather than jerk the wheel on two lane roads.

I think Kansas tried a program similar to Iowa. Insurance companies and the state of Pennsylvania have studied how to cut down on injuries to people in deer-automble crashes.

On a two lane road not far from me one driver veered to miss a dog. He had a head on crash with another car, both drivers died at the scene.

22 posted on 10/13/2011 7:21:33 AM PDT by TYVets (Pure-Gas.org ..... ethanol free gasoline by state and city)
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To: Pessimist

SE TX is as flat as you can get...much flatter than most parts of Ohio I would wager. We use rifles. For our dog-sized deer, most use a .243 or 30-30...but 7 mags are common as are 30-06. The bullet just has to stay on your land.


23 posted on 10/13/2011 7:26:43 AM PDT by NELSON111
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To: Paladin2

“What about rifled shotgun barrels with sabboted ballistic slugs?”

I think those are allowed here.

I gather though that they don’t have the range of a hi powered rifle bullet.


24 posted on 10/13/2011 7:33:56 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: lakeman

The link you provided states black powder cartridges not pistol cartridges. I guess I could break out the old 45-70 sharps.


25 posted on 10/13/2011 7:38:51 AM PDT by BobinIL
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To: TYVets

“I think Kansas tried a program similar to Iowa. Insurance companies and the state of Pennsylvania have studied how to cut down on injuries to people in deer-automble crashes.”

The deer population here in Ohio is very high. Open season would do a lot to help thin the population and reduce deer-automobile crashes.


26 posted on 10/13/2011 7:39:39 AM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a tea party descendant - steeped in the Constitutional legacy handed down by the Founders)
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To: TYVets

Unless you are riding a motorcycle.


27 posted on 10/13/2011 7:44:37 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: BobinIL

Yes you are correct but that is an improvement.


28 posted on 10/13/2011 7:59:42 AM PDT by lakeman (Semper Fi)
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To: marktwain
I find all the local hunting regulations interesting.

If you get tired of lugging that old heavy rifle around in the deer woods come to Missouri.

A 25 ACP is legal for deer.

29 posted on 10/13/2011 8:05:09 AM PDT by TYVets (Pure-Gas.org ..... ethanol free gasoline by state and city)
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To: TYVets
Back in the 70’s a friend of mine hit cow one night coming home from a party.

He didn't know the cow was in his back seat until the next morning.

30 posted on 10/13/2011 8:13:16 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: gtk
“handgun with 5-inch minimum length barrel, using straight-walled cartridges .357 caliber or larger”

I see. So .45-70, .458 Win Mag is OK!

31 posted on 10/13/2011 8:18:27 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (Cain for President - Because I like the content of his character)
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To: Pessimist
I think the ban on using rifles in Ohio is supposed to be due to the flatness of our land.

That and probably the population density too......The entire southern half of Michigan is restricted to shotguns and black powder for deer hunting and I think it's a good idea.

Last fall I read an article about a home owner who lived in a semi-rural area about 45 miles north of me who had a rifle slug come thru the side of her house.

A few years ago I was rabbit hunting with a buddy in a small wooded area when some jackass started target shooting from his back yard with a semi-auto and his target was on a post he had set up in the field behind his house. We were in the woods beyond the field...

The rounds were whizzing thru the trees around us like bees......We got the hell out of there fast then took a drive over to the guy's house and my buddy had words with him about the foolishness of what he was doing without a proper backstop or berm behind his target.......

32 posted on 10/13/2011 8:39:57 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (ui)
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To: Hot Tabasco

I’m a shooter myself and all for the 2nd Ammendment. But i have to admit it is scary what some of these clowns will do!


33 posted on 10/13/2011 8:57:56 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: IMR 4350
The car’s front end has to be high enough to hit the deer in the side and not hit under the belly.

That's not a guarantee either since many deer are bounding across the roads when they are hit.....That happened two years ago to my niece's husband's SUV. The deer came flying up out of a ditch at night when the husband, doing about 60 mph, nailed it. Totalled his front end but fortunately the deer was thrown up and over the front hood high enough that it just missed the windshield.

I live in a highly densely populated area north of Detroit that has small pockets of wooded areas in and outside of subdivisions where these damn deer live and thrive. Unfortunately, they can't be hunted due to the close proximity to back yards and houses. So, it's not surprising to see a dead deer beside the road while driving to the local gas station or supermarket......

34 posted on 10/13/2011 8:58:36 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (ui)
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To: Erik Latranyi

Here is the code:

http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/1501%3A31-15

Look under 1501:31-15-11 Deer regulations
C 2 a (iii).

Looks like you could use a .500 Nitro express if you wrist can handle it.


35 posted on 10/13/2011 9:43:16 AM PDT by gtk
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To: Paladin2; Pessimist
What about rifled shotgun barrels with sabboted ballistic slugs?

I also think they're OK in Ohio. Hunting regs don't specifically say. When I'm there (my parents have a farm in Muskingum County), I use an H&R "Ultra Slug" 12 ga. slug gun (with a scope), which has the rifled barrel. And I use Lightfield brand sabot slugs for ammo. Always been a pretty good combination for me - haven't missed a clean shot on a deer yet. At 100 yards, where the crosshair is that's where the slug hits. But at 150 yards it starts to drop pretty fast.

36 posted on 10/13/2011 10:07:54 AM PDT by DE50AE
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To: Erik Latranyi; gtk
I see. So .45-70, .458 Win Mag is OK!

You're overthinking this.



37 posted on 10/13/2011 11:13:48 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: Yo-Yo
>.500 S&W vs .700 Nitro Express

You can never have too much gun! :)

38 posted on 10/13/2011 11:57:15 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (Cain for President - Because I like the content of his character)
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To: marktwain

Huh??? Rifles are currently illegal to hunt deer with in OH? That’s weird. In most states I think they’re kind of the firearm of choice.


39 posted on 10/13/2011 5:41:27 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Pessimist
"I think the ban on using rifles in Ohio is supposed to be due to the flatness of our land."

Makes no sense when you consider that there are states flatter than Ohio that allow rifle hunting ... like my Louisiana. Not sure how we make it every year :)

40 posted on 10/13/2011 5:47:29 PM PDT by JustaDumbBlonde (Don't wish doom on your enemies. Plan it.)
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