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What Could Cainís 9-9-9 Plan Mean For You?
ABC News ^ | 10/13/11 | Ben Forer

Posted on 10/13/2011 9:59:12 AM PDT by SaraJohnson

If you have a family of four with an income of just under $50,000, they could end up paying more under the Cain plan. Currently, they are taxed around $3,850 in income tax. Under Cain’s plan, they would be taxed at 9 percent or pay $4,500. That’s $650 more. Although the family would save almost $4,000 in Social Security taxes, it would have to give up the child tax credit worth the same amount. Furthermore, it would pay an additional national sales tax of 9 percent on everything purchased, including groceries and clothes, which totals about $2,000. That means under the Cain plan that family could end up paying $2,725 more.

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Front Page News; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 999; cain; dncmedia; enemedia; liberalmedia; mediabias; obamedia; sorosmedia
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This is not going to sell in an election against Obama during a period when the middle class is under attack by the Federal government.

Since Cain has offered no tax caculator site to refute this kind of analyses of his tax plan, the media gets to define and caculate it for him.

Although simplifying the tax code is an important part of ending government corruption via buying loopholes, it will be protrayed as a tax increase on the middle class at a time when the middle class is suffering under the weight of this economy. It also is slammed for introducing a new consumption tax that we all know would not stay stagnant at 9%.

The 999 plan is a very weak campaign centerpiece when it comes to the general election.

1 posted on 10/13/2011 9:59:13 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: SaraJohnson

Read Cain’s Lips: ALL NEW TAXES!


2 posted on 10/13/2011 10:00:27 AM PDT by Huck (9-9-9 is a SALES tax AND a VAT -- read about it at Nat'l Review: http://tinyurl.com/3w9ak3a)
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To: SaraJohnson

It would be a better plan if it exempted tax on food.


3 posted on 10/13/2011 10:02:21 AM PDT by bgill (There, happy now?)
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To: SaraJohnson

I already see the flaw in that scenario - they do not account for the payroll taxes being eliminated.


4 posted on 10/13/2011 10:03:45 AM PDT by justsaynomore (Cain 2012 - http://teamcain.hermancain.com)
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To: SaraJohnson

A family of 4 making under $50,000 is likely getting a bunch of free government stuff.....this article does NOT analyze all this very well.


5 posted on 10/13/2011 10:04:43 AM PDT by goodnesswins (My Kid/Grandkids are NOT your ATM, liberals! (Sarah Palin))
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To: SaraJohnson
Yeah totally. You know what's so much better?

Sure, I got a plan, but I'll show it to y'all later!

6 posted on 10/13/2011 10:04:59 AM PDT by perfect_rovian_storm (Perry's idea of border control: Use both hands to welcome the illegals right in)
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To: SaraJohnson

999 has no chance of passing. 999 won’t even get out of committee.

It has problems because Herman Cain probably thought it up while he was on the treadmill.

But it’s a starting point. You want a Flat Tax? A Fair Tax? Electing Herman Cain is the best chance you’re ever going to get to throw out the current tax code and implement a more sensible system.


7 posted on 10/13/2011 10:05:04 AM PDT by exist
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To: SaraJohnson
oh good grief, I had forgotten about the child tax credit.
I have 4 kids I can’t afford to lose that credit!

home mortgage interest deduction gone
child tax credit gone
business expense deductions gone

and I don't even pay payroll taxes because I am self employed, I would be totally screwed under 999.

8 posted on 10/13/2011 10:05:33 AM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama = Epic Fail)
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To: SaraJohnson

As a small time retailer, I would like to know what it would mean to me and my biz. Would I have to start charging my customers 16% tax on everything? (state + new fed.) Does the state tax go away or what?


9 posted on 10/13/2011 10:06:24 AM PDT by ozark hilljilly
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To: SaraJohnson

I too am concerned about this 999 stuff which to the average Joe, is interpreted as a tax increase. A delivery truck guy told me yesterday that he doesn’t want to pay an additional 9% tax on his purchases.
Love Cain..see my tagline. But he really doesn’t need to ID himself so closely with this plan and keep repeating how much he believes in it. He can sell himself on who he is without it.


10 posted on 10/13/2011 10:06:57 AM PDT by Mountain Mary (I'll have a Godfather's pizza with the works!)
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To: All

How about an analysis from a conservative instead?
http://www.redstate.com/apocomilitiaman/2011/10/12/rough-math-of-the-999-plan/

The left is TWISTING the numbers in Cain’s plan to try and make it look bad. Many FReepers are falling into this trap. Please learn about the plan yourself and stop blindly following the leftist talking points. They are going to do this to everyone but Romney.


11 posted on 10/13/2011 10:07:27 AM PDT by justsaynomore (Cain 2012 - http://teamcain.hermancain.com)
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To: SaraJohnson

agreed- if he’s just going to sit back and take it rather than fight back with real numbers he’s just another GOPer that fights like a little girl...and he does not seem anything like that at all...


12 posted on 10/13/2011 10:09:04 AM PDT by God luvs America (63.5million pay no federal income tax then vote demoKrat)
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To: SaraJohnson

my MIL is on SS, she is old, she cannot afford half of her meds, and can only buy enough food for two meals a day.

She has no car, no luxuries like eating a chocolate bar, she cries her eyes out when she can’t give her grandkids a present at Christmas and birthdays.

Now she will have a 9% tax on her.

Aye that is not going to go well in the election and the left are going to crucify him for this and what is to stop the left raising this 999 to 30, 30 , 30 in the future.

Cain is better than Romney by far but he better get this tax plan sorted out than just saying 9,9,9
That plan will not go to well with people down here in FL and the older poorer folks in the south

We know how the left will swing this

the rich see their taxes go down by over half while those living on SS and have no money left over and have no nothing to enjoy but live like hermits now see an increase in their food, medication, clothing bill.


13 posted on 10/13/2011 10:09:24 AM PDT by manc (Beware pro OWS trolls who promote the protests on here,then send freep mail. Marriage= 1man+1 woman)
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To: exist

I want a flat tax, personally, but I don’t think it is wise to run on that as a central economic plan to fix the economy. I am against introducting a new pot of money for Washington - a consumption tax.

Debates on reforming the tax system is better done once in office because it won’t win an election.


14 posted on 10/13/2011 10:09:35 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: justsaynomore

Reread the article. I think they do account for payroll tax savings.


15 posted on 10/13/2011 10:11:00 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: goodnesswins

What kind of government stuff can I get?


16 posted on 10/13/2011 10:11:25 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: SaraJohnson; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; calcowgirl; Gilbo_3; ...
RE :”This is not going to sell in an election against Obama during a period when the middle class is under attack by the Federal government.....
.....The 999 plan is a very weak campaign centerpiece when it comes to the general election.

The purpose is to stimulate economic growth and make us more competitive wrt to jobs by shifting to consumption taxes, not more Bush/Obama popular give-a-ways. Those were how we ended up with half the country paying no Federal taxes (except entitlement ones) and more and more of them losing their jobs and supporting more handouts.

Heck, the specifics of Obama’s Christmas gift ‘Jobs bill’ all poll well. But they wont make the voters happy when they lose their jobs anymore than they were happy with Bush in 2008.

17 posted on 10/13/2011 10:11:32 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Cain :"My parents didn't raise me to beg the government for other peoples money")
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To: ozark hilljilly
Would I have to start charging my customers 16% tax on everything? (state + new fed.)

Yes.

Does the state tax go away or what?

Not unless the state ends it. The federal government cannot repeal taxes that the states enact.

18 posted on 10/13/2011 10:12:33 AM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: justsaynomore
What about retirees who are not contributing to Social Security out of their pension. Sounds like they get really screwed.
19 posted on 10/13/2011 10:12:36 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: SaraJohnson

“It’s going to raise the price of just about everything by about 9 percent,” said former George W. Bush economic policy adviser Bruce Bartlett. “We know from experience and analysis that that tends to hurt people with low incomes.”

Alright. And wouldn’t prices drop with the concurrent drop of corporate taxes, offsetting the 9% sales tax by a LOT?

Yes. Yes they would. It is NOT a zero sum game.

If you don’t believe that prices will drop as the corporations have the heat taken off of them, then you don’t believe in supply-side economics, the free market and the laws of supply and demand.

In other words - you are NOT a conservative.

How ‘bout the rest of Cain’s plan? Deregulating the energy sector. Opening up our natural resources?

How would $1.50 (or less) for a gallon of gas effect the working class and the working poor?

How about LESS FREAKIN’ POOR PEOPLE? More jobs means more working people and less people worrying about the 9% sales tax.

How about retirees doing MUCH better as corporations thrive and their investments begin to take off? How about the huge number of Boomers who want to retire and can’t because they’ve take such a bath in the stock market over the last five years? I’ll bet they’ll be happy with corporate profits.

You are being taxed this much now in the form of hidden taxes. 999 is revenue neutral, people.

Every time people scream about the 9% sales tax, the more I’m convinced that such an obvious tax would hold itself in check against increases over the years.

Not so with the hidden corporate taxes. We pay it every time we buy anything, but we don’t bawl and cry about it because it’s not *obvious* to us.


20 posted on 10/13/2011 10:12:52 AM PDT by Marie (Cain 9s Have Teeth)
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To: SaraJohnson
In other words, even many so-called "Conservatives" are falling for the class warfare rhetoric, and favor a "progressive" tax system.

What about:

- the payroll tax employers would no longer pay?
- the hundreds of billions in accounting and tax expenses employers and individuals avoid complying with the current tax code?
- the millions of man-hours employers and individuals avoid complying with the current tax code?
- the millions of Americans not paying any taxes now, if not getting a "credit," that would start having some skin in the game?
- the capital gains potential no longer taxed?
- the market boom that would increase everyone's 401(k) value?
- the investment boom in America that could allow this $50K individual to find a higher paying job?

21 posted on 10/13/2011 10:12:55 AM PDT by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: ozark hilljilly
Does the state tax go away or what?

No. The states still get to charge their own sales taxes.

22 posted on 10/13/2011 10:13:07 AM PDT by Drew68
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To: TexasFreeper2009
“home mortgage interest deduction gone
child tax credit gone
business expense deductions gone”

You forgot...

Property tax deduction - gone

State and local income tax deduction - gone

Employee expenses deduction - gone

The list of lost deductions is endless.

23 posted on 10/13/2011 10:13:18 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: Huck

I’m thinking Laffer is a better economist with no agenda rather then a guy from the Lame Stream Media. Laffer gives Cain’s plan a big thumbs up. These Johnny come lately economist wanabes don’t impress me.


24 posted on 10/13/2011 10:13:52 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: bgill

If we give politicans and special interests to go ahead to have loopholes, liberals will drive a truck through it. But I agree that a consumption tax target on food purchases would be harsh for the middle and lower classes.

Ending loopholes is the who purpose of tax code reform. A consumption tax is not going to be popular.


25 posted on 10/13/2011 10:13:52 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: BenLurkin

Retirement income is not taxed under this plan - there is no double taxation.


26 posted on 10/13/2011 10:14:15 AM PDT by justsaynomore (Cain 2012 - http://teamcain.hermancain.com)
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To: exist

see post 13.

I would rather have the flat tax than this 9,9,9, which could go to 30,30, 30

Many elderly folks cannot afford to see another tax of 9% and no matter how this is spun then it is an extra tax

This is no quick gimmick like selling pizza, this is peoples lives and their money

seeing a Donald Trump have half of his taxes go down while those old folks see an increase is something which the left will use to destroy him and the GOP.

Get the flat tax which is better than this 999 plan , hell there is not even a way to stop this going to 50,50 ,50 in the future


27 posted on 10/13/2011 10:14:17 AM PDT by manc (Beware pro OWS trolls who promote the protests on here,then send freep mail. Marriage= 1man+1 woman)
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To: SaraJohnson
“Relative to the current system, it is a big improvement,” William McBride, an economist with the Tax Foundation, told ABC News. “9-9-9 is fundamentally scrapping the tax code and starting over, and there is very good reason to do that.”

Scrapping the tax code and starting over is a great idea! Whether the start of the new code results in 9-9-9 depends on how long it takes to implement, whether it really is revenue neutral compared to the current system, and how many exceptions result in the simplified new system.

The Democrats love the idea of a national sales tax, just add it to the current tax code to give the Obama administration more dollars to waste.

28 posted on 10/13/2011 10:14:22 AM PDT by olezip
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To: manc
Now she will have a 9% tax on her.

More than that. She'll have her Social Security taxed at 9% as income. And an additional 9% on all her purchases. Should they send her a "Cain for President" sign now or later?

29 posted on 10/13/2011 10:14:42 AM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: SaraJohnson

Agreed. I personally would like to see the 16th Amendment repealed and the US Government go back to tariffs and a national sales tax. Since that will never happen in my lifetime, I would settle for a flat rate income tax on all US citizens and corporations. Eventually, we need to shift away from Social Security and Medicare to tax exempted individual savings plans. But, I am dreaming on that one too. Who am I kidding — this won’t happen until the U.S. can’t borrow or print money anymore.


30 posted on 10/13/2011 10:14:42 AM PDT by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughers of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

1. Regarding the child tax deduction - what you’re saying is that you’re all for redistribution of wealth when it is YOU that is receiving the distribution.

2. Regarding payroll taxes - if you’re self-employed, you’re paying DOUBLE payroll taxes - over 15% total, because you pay both the employee and employer portions.


31 posted on 10/13/2011 10:14:51 AM PDT by RightFighter (It was all for nothing.)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

Everyone is forgetting another thing.

Cain also advocates the Chilean model of social security. That means, yes you won’t pay any payroll taxes *BUT* you would be contributing 10-20% each month to a retirement fund instead.


32 posted on 10/13/2011 10:14:51 AM PDT by shortey22
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To: justsaynomore
There is no hope of stopping the govt. expansion racket and running the parasitic elite out of power until the roots of the racket are cut away, by making sure that everyone pays. Now almost half the population pays no income tax. Herman Cain knows that people respond to incentives and disincentives.

Jaime Ricardo "Rick" Perry thinks that giving subsidies to illegal immigrants does not encourage more illegal immigration. What a fool. Or what a scheming phony. One or the other.

Oh gosh. I'm so heartless. I lack compassion. Shame on me. /s

33 posted on 10/13/2011 10:15:03 AM PDT by hellbender
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To: shortey22

First off - the SS model Cain talks about is OPTIONAL.

Cain is not lumping fixing SS in with 999. That is a completely different plan.

SS will still be funded under the plan, the base is bigger which is why payroll taxes can be eliminated. Kind of like how you save when you buy in bulk.


34 posted on 10/13/2011 10:17:01 AM PDT by justsaynomore (Cain 2012 - http://teamcain.hermancain.com)
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To: SaraJohnson

Herman Cain needs to lay out the details of his 999 plan or start backing away from it.

I believe 999 eliminates charitable contributions as a deduction. That is probably a killer among conservatives who generally give much more to charitable organizations than do the liberals.


35 posted on 10/13/2011 10:17:39 AM PDT by Presbyterian Reporter
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To: Marie
If you don’t believe that prices will drop as the corporations have the heat taken off of them, then you don’t believe in supply-side economics, the free market and the laws of supply and demand.

So if GE paid no income tax last year, then wouldn't Cain's plan force them to raise their prices? By a LOT?

36 posted on 10/13/2011 10:18:02 AM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: SaraJohnson

9-9-9 is not an end, but a beginning to the conversation.

This static analysis does not take into account that with a reduction in taxes, comes a reduction in the cost of goods and services and a more than likely increase in economic production. The family of 4 making $50K would probably end up earning more (and keeping more of it) in the long run.


37 posted on 10/13/2011 10:18:27 AM PDT by mkboyce
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To: exist

The biggest problem with all of the hits against the 999 plan and the eventual FairTax plan is that everyone assumes it is on top of what we already have.

Do any of you doubters ever to consider that getting rid of the Permanent Political Class might change things just a little bit?

That people just might see much more in their paychecks each week?

That those same people would be more keen to how much tax they are paying and in such keeping far more pressure on their congresskritters to keep taxes down?

That just maybe more people would be disposed to saving for their future and not relying on SS for their needs after retirement?


38 posted on 10/13/2011 10:20:20 AM PDT by mazda77
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To: SoJoCo

NO...probably means they wouldn’t be able to give as much to DEMOCRATS! /s


39 posted on 10/13/2011 10:20:25 AM PDT by goodnesswins (My Kid/Grandkids are NOT your ATM, liberals! (Sarah Palin))
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To: TexasFreeper2009

How in the heck do you get both the EIC and the home mortgage deduction?

Every year that *I* have filed, it’s one or the other.

I’ve NEVER claimed my mortgage deduction because I get more money from the EIC.


40 posted on 10/13/2011 10:21:03 AM PDT by Marie (Cain 9s Have Teeth)
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To: Marie

In other words - you are NOT a conservative.


Stop being pitifully lame. :)

I want a flat tax, personally, but this goes to show you what will happen to Mr. Cain during the general election. Papa Bush saw what raising taxes on the middle class did for him.

Cain’s campaign centerpiece assures our defeat if it is shown to raise the taxes on the middle class. He’s left the media to present his tax caculations which is another not ready for prime time move on his part.


41 posted on 10/13/2011 10:21:25 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: justsaynomore

250000 15500


The Red State example does not appear correct. FICA has a limit, doesn’t it?


42 posted on 10/13/2011 10:21:31 AM PDT by Presbyterian Reporter
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To: SaraJohnson

I think their math is wrong. How are they getting $2,000 a child? IRS states up to $1000 per child.


43 posted on 10/13/2011 10:21:31 AM PDT by xenob
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To: Presbyterian Reporter

That is a lie -

It is right here on his website:

Individual Flat Tax – 9%. Gross income less charitable deductions.

http://www.hermancain.com/999plan


44 posted on 10/13/2011 10:21:45 AM PDT by justsaynomore (Cain 2012 - http://teamcain.hermancain.com)
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To: manc

“my MIL is on SS, she is old, she cannot afford half of her meds, and can only buy enough food for two meals a day.”

My mother is on SS.

It sure would be nice if my husband and I were doing better and could afford to help her out more.

Oh wait. That’s family taking care of family and it’s the gov’t job to take care of my mother. I forgot for a moment.


45 posted on 10/13/2011 10:23:25 AM PDT by Marie (Cain 9s Have Teeth)
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To: SaraJohnson

Cain said their calculations are wrong.

Cainbots accept his explanation without question.

==

One calculation thread last week said that Cain's 999 would end up with about an annual $285 Billion dollar deficit.

Who makes up that shortfall?
46 posted on 10/13/2011 10:23:59 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: Beagle8U

So what is the percentage of the middle class that can even qualify for the deductions in the first place? I know the lower middle class doesn’t so did you consider that?


47 posted on 10/13/2011 10:24:12 AM PDT by mazda77
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To: DTogo

You’re awesome, togo!


48 posted on 10/13/2011 10:24:41 AM PDT by Marie (Cain 9s Have Teeth)
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To: Huck; SaraJohnson

Read Cain’s Lips: ALL NEW TAXES!
///
please, don’t you have a shred of honesty in you ?
first your claims of a VAT tax, and now this ?

and again, why are good conservatives here at FR,
so desperate to slime Cain, that they use ABC
and the liberal media to lie for them?!?

this article totally ignores that cutting the business tax by over 31%,
would make everything cheaper NET,
even AFTER the sales tax !

(and, would result in immediate massive new job hiring !)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2791787/posts
Cain Economic Advisor Rich Lowrie Explains Sales Tax via Twitter
“This is in response to the Bloomberg idiot moderators and everyone else who insists that the 9% sales tax will raise prices.”

(and, this is only phase 1, in the process of getting rid of the IRS and 67,000 pages of tax code...)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2791979/posts
Phase 2 of Cain’s 999 plan: The FairTax!
HermanCain.com ^ | unknown | Herman Cain
Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:34:49 PM by UnwashedPeasant
Few seem to know it, but Phase 2 of Cain’s 999 plan is the FairTax. Cain’s website says the following about the FairTax:
1.) Amidst a backdrop of the economic boom created by the Phase 1 Enhanced Plan, I will begin the process of educating the American people on the benefits of continuing the next step to the Fair Tax.
2.) The Fair Tax would ultimately replace individual and corporate income taxes.
3.) It would make it possible to end the IRS as we know it.
4.) The Fair Tax makes our exported goods and services the most competitively internationally than any other tax system.


49 posted on 10/13/2011 10:25:19 AM PDT by Elendur (It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: SaraJohnson
Cain says he would do away with the Income Tax, but he says nothing about doing away with the State and Local Taxes. I already pay 8.3% on everything except food. With the 999 I would be paying 17.3% on everything including food. Ouch! I am not sure how the other 9's would work out for me but think it would be more.
50 posted on 10/13/2011 10:25:35 AM PDT by Spunky (Sarah Palin on Polls "Poles are for Strippers and Cross Country Skiers")
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