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The Quivering Upper Lip - The British character: from self-restraint to self-indulgence
City Journal ^ | Autumn 2008 | Theodore Dalyrmple

Posted on 10/15/2011 10:04:59 PM PDT by Cronos

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To: dfwgator

I thought he did “Deiter!” or “DEETA!” or whatever that German guy was - PERFECTLY!!! LOVED IT!


61 posted on 10/16/2011 8:07:34 PM PDT by ransomnote
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To: brityank
tell us mere parents that chastisement, punishment, and shame is damaging to the child's self esteem

Like anything, moderation is the key. Some chastisement, punishment and shame is good, but if it is too much it IS damaging -- but that varies from kid to kid and situation to situation. Parents make mistakes, but most can make out when they have gone too far.

62 posted on 10/17/2011 12:30:06 AM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: varialectio; RobbyS
ignores the effect of mass immigration—tho’ the corruption of English manners and morals is probably as much a cause as well as a consequence of the invasion.

I don't think it's a cause or a consequence but a parallel development. British morals started to get corrupted in the 70s, post the flower-power revolution and immigrants were only really visible in the late 70s.

And it depends on the immigrants -- Moslem immigrants from Pakistan tend to be the most criminal, along with Jamaicans. This is because those immigrants were mostly uneducated, low-skilled labor to work in mills etc. Once those shut they were not skilled enough to rise.

On the contrary Hindu and Sikh and Indian Christian immigrants tend to have the lowest crime-rates because the communities that migrated were shop-keepers or businessmen or doctors or engineers.

Bangladeshis and non-Jamaican Caribbean folks are somewhere in-between -- they tend to be low-skilled but not the absolute no-skills as Pakis or as heavily infiltrated by gangs as the Jamaicans.

The Russians and Ukrainians in the UK unfortunately seem to have been infiltrated by gangs -- there are many good, honest folk among them, but the gangs have slipped in and given all a bad name.

63 posted on 10/17/2011 12:35:38 AM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: heye2monn; miss marmelstein
We have witnessed the near-total secularization of English society, the vanishing of church attendance, and the suffocating political correctness of the flaccid Anglican church.

True.

64 posted on 10/17/2011 12:36:50 AM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: Tax-chick; miss marmelstein
There are people who know they are not the center of the universe, and there are people who think they are. The latter are awful to be around, and absolutely catastrophic in large groups.

Good point. And that is true not only for the English.

I think our societies emphasis that "everyone wins" has a big drawback -- everything thinks it should be all about them.. There is no sense of "something bigger than me" -- whether it be religion or a political ideology or whatever...

65 posted on 10/17/2011 12:38:39 AM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: miss marmelstein

I’ve always been a big Jeeves and Wooster fan — have you got the omnibus? I’ve been re-reading some of Plum’s earlier works like “the Prefect’s uncle” and also the Blandings Castle series — smashing!


66 posted on 10/17/2011 12:40:25 AM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: Malesherbes
you might have gotten off at Brixton. East Tooting and others are South Asian. But London is cosmopolitan and always has been. That's one of its main planks and what keeps the British economy humming. I don't think immigration has hit British morals -- after all, they've had immigration before through the centuries and are a "mongrel race" as I remember some Brit author noting.

The problem is their denial of religion and rejection of history -- they no longer even make history compulsory in schools.

67 posted on 10/17/2011 12:47:06 AM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: miss marmelstein
seen the Royal Pavilion? I lived in Brighton :-P

The interiors are incredibly kitschy!

68 posted on 10/17/2011 12:51:23 AM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: miss marmelstein; Tax-chick
yes, Brighton is beautiful -- the pier, the Seven Sisters, the walk to hove etc. And it was a nice place to live in -- even for a conservative like me! I used to go to a Church there -- St. Mary Magdalen where Fr. Ray Blake used to have a weekly meeting for young adults (well we were in our 20s and 30s) to discuss theology and its application to our daily lives.

He has his own blog --> http://marymagdalen.blogspot.com/ which is pretty good.

69 posted on 10/17/2011 12:53:53 AM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: miss marmelstein

well, he was Anglo-irish —> one of the Normans who went over to Ireland after William and then became “hibernios ipsos hibernii” — more Irish than the Irish themselves!


70 posted on 10/17/2011 12:56:42 AM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: ransomnote; dfwgator; miss marmelstein
Actually the Brit loss of life was pretty low -> check This table

the brits lost 0.94% of their population. In contrast, Germany lost 10.5% of it's population, the USSR 13.5% and Poland 17%.

In WWI, the Brits didn't take the brunt of the attacks -- that was the French who lost a large number of men in trench warfare, and the Germans and the Russians and the Austro-Hungarians (and of course the Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Ruthenians etc. who were fighting in 3 different armies)

the number of men lost didn't make a difference in any of the countries as remember that the late 40s and 50s and early 60s still had "manly men" -- it was only after the flower-power revolution and the emasculation of men by radical feminists that this has happened.

historical case in point -- Paraguay in the 1800s fought a debilitating war with Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay during which 3/4ths or more of its male population was decimated, yet they did not and do not have an effeminate culture.

71 posted on 10/17/2011 1:05:35 AM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: Cronos

I loved it! I’m not against kitsch at all. In fact, my friend who took me there felt the exterior was kitschy too.
What I really should have brought back was some Brighton Rock. For years - after reading the book as a teen - I STILL thought it was something like Plymouth Rock.


72 posted on 10/17/2011 4:34:50 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Let's have a Cain Mutiny!)
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To: Cronos

I don’t have the omnibus although I do have the Rumpole Series in that form. And, I’m not afraid to admit, the Herriott animal stories.

Yes, I, too, was crazy about Bertie and Jeeves. I saw the actor Simon Ward play Bertie in a West End show many years ago. He was hilarious.


73 posted on 10/17/2011 4:38:29 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Let's have a Cain Mutiny!)
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To: Cronos

I think the British mourn the “type” of man who died. Also, they mourn the financial devastation that these wars caused - which brought about the break up of the great homes of England. H.P. Hartley’s “The Go-Between” captures this loss so very well.


74 posted on 10/17/2011 4:48:27 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Let's have a Cain Mutiny!)
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To: miss marmelstein; Cronos

Deborah Mitford, (Dowager) Duchess of Devonshire, recently published a memoir which discussed in detail what the Devonshires went through to keep some of their main property holdings together when the old Duke died. It was a topic in “Monarch of the Glen,” too ;-).

My mom and I used to watch the James Herriot vet series on PBS when it was first-run. It’s funny seeing all those actors show up in “Midsomer Murders” and the Harry Potter films. When we first saw “Prisoner of Azkaban,” three or four older adults in the theater called out, “It’s Siegfried Farnon!” when “Cornelius Fudge” appeared on screen.


75 posted on 10/17/2011 9:21:30 AM PDT by Tax-chick (You could be a monthly donor, too. It's easy!)
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To: ransomnote
I enjoyed your story about the argument between those 2. I witnessed a similar argument between two Brits. It was at a hotel in Washington DC.

One was a guest of the hotel and the other was the desk clerk. The desk clerk was trying to explain that the hotel was full and he was not able to get the type of room he had booked. The guest could not understand that he was getting a better room at the same price as the cheaper room.

They went back and forth each saying the same thing and the guest not understanding what was being said. I have never seen to this day such a polite conversation.

Finally, because I was tired of waiting in line, and because I understood what they did not seem to, I butted in and explained. They both thanked me. I can't understand why the desk clerk was unable to get his information across to the guest and I was able to do it in one sentence.

I have been to England Scotland and Ireland twice, once in the 60’s and again in the 80’s I didn't see the rudeness that others are talking about, France was a different thing. I am sorry that things have changed.

76 posted on 10/17/2011 9:52:03 AM PDT by Ditter
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To: Cronos

Isn’t it strange that the continent has always looked at England in much the same way that England looks at us? Cowboys, hicks, barbarians... uncouth... while generically speaking, the opposite is more likely to be true.

And as another thought, if one takes the analogy that nations are often thought of as female, and in applying human characteristics (which is fair, as an aggregate of it’s citizens), perhaps there is something to be said for the ‘catholic girls’, and ‘preacher’s daughter’ thing. Perhaps those who are righteous have further to fall, so they often attain a greater speed before the resulting (and more spectacular) crater. Just sayin’


77 posted on 10/17/2011 10:08:00 AM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: Cronos

‘In WWI, the Brits didn’t take the brunt of the attacks —’

I think you and I may be at the cusp of an argument, my friend.


78 posted on 10/17/2011 10:10:30 AM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: Tax-chick

The great Robert Hardy. Who also functioned as the Queen’s falconer, I believe.


79 posted on 10/17/2011 11:12:48 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Let's have a Cain Mutiny!)
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To: the scotsman

Tell us about, Scotsman. I’m interested.


80 posted on 10/17/2011 11:13:43 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Let's have a Cain Mutiny!)
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