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Call for border fence exposes lack of knowledge
Beaumont Enterprise ^ | October 18, 2011 | staff

Posted on 10/18/2011 12:04:10 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

Minnesota Congresswomen and presidential candidate Michele Bachmann has become the latest politician to call for an impenetrable fence along the entire length of the border with Mexico. "President Obama has failed the American people by failing to secure the southern border," said Bachmann. "I will secure that border and that will be Job One."

Statements like that may get some attention, but they are not practical. Don't take our word for it; take Rick Perry's.

The Texas governor has been called a lot of things, but he's hardly a mushy liberal. Yet even this tough Texan sneers at calls for a Berlin Wall-style border fence spanning hundreds of miles from Brownsville to El Paso.

Two reasons: We can't afford it, and we don't need it.

The cost of a barrier like that would be staggering, certainly in the billions. Bachmann and others are silent about how they would pay for it.

Moreover, it is unnecessary. The Texas-Mexico border includes many miles of desert that are either lightly populated or devoid of any human presence. Illegal immigrants don't cross there. They make their moves along urban corridors.

Perry knows this because he is the governor of Texas. He knows the issue is more nuanced - like his support for in-state tuition for children of illegal immigrants.

Secure the border? Absolutely - but in an intelligent way that puts our resources where they will have the most impact.

Voters should be wary of sound bites from candidates that fire up special-interest groups but lack logic. The next president will need real ideas, not gimmicks, to solve the challenges facing this nation.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; Government; Mexico; Politics/Elections; US: Arizona; US: California; US: Minnesota; US: New Mexico; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; arizona; california; excuses; heartless; hispandering; illegal; immigration; internationalborder; mexico; michelebachmann; minnesota; moreexcuses; newmexico; perry; perry2012; rickperry; texas
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Cain apologizes for comments on border fence "It was a joke," Cain said emphatically. "I apologize if I offended anyone. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa."

Rick Perry apologizes for ‘heartless’ comment on immigration question Rick Perry said Wednesday that he was sorry for saying at last week's Republican debate that those opposed to providing an in-state tuition break to the children of illegal immigrants “did not have a heart.”

I was probably a bit over-passionate by using that word and it was inappropriate,” Perry said in a interview with Newsmax. “In Texas in 2001 we had 181 members of the legislature — only four voted against this piece of legislation — because it wasn’t about immigration it was about education.”

1 posted on 10/18/2011 12:04:14 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: All; shield
Oct 6, 2011 Interviewing Rick Perry On Illegal Immigration [10 Points]

[snip]

"I have long been a proponent of strategic fencing because it is a critical component of border security, and it works when used in the right places.

I think what caused the hang up was that after it was passed, it was amended to give Homeland Security complete discretion on how, when and whether the fence ever gets built. Obviously with this president, that means it will never be completed.

If I’m elected, I will direct my Secretary of Homeland Security to expedite construction of strategic fencing along the border, especially in high traffic areas where manpower alone is insufficient to do the job.

But it’s important to remember that fencing is only one component of an overall border security strategy. A fence is only as secure as it is manned.

That’s why I would increase manpower on the border, starting with thousands of National Guard and border patrol agents, and I’d also make greater use of unmanned aerial vehicles to help gather real-time law enforcement intelligence.

We know for a fact that increased manpower is effective, because we’ve proved it in Texas with our $400 million border security effort."

[snip]

The federal DREAM Act is an amnesty bill, and I strongly oppose amnesty. The Texas educational residency bill was vastly different.

Because the federal government has failed in its basic duty to protect our borders, states are forced to deal with illegal immigrant issues.

In Texas, we had to deal with the children of illegal immigrants residing in our state and attending our schools, as the federal government requires states to educate these children through the public school system. Lawmakers in Texas – indisputably one of the most conservative states in America – were virtually unanimous in their decision.

The Legislature determined the payment of in-state college tuition is available to all students who have lived in Texas for at least three years and graduated from a public high school. If you meet those requirements, you pay in-state tuition, whether you relocated from Oklahoma, Idaho, Canada or Mexico. The only difference is that Texas residents who aren’t documented must be on the path to pursue U.S. citizenship to be allowed to pay in-state tuition.

There were a number of reasons the bill received widespread support among conservatives. Importantly, it has never had a cost to Texas taxpayers. In fact, our institutions of higher learning would actually lose tens of millions of dollars in lost tuition payments if the law were repealed.

And it would lower the odds that these students would receive subsidized health care or end up in prison. Protecting taxpayers was a serious concern, given that a Supreme Court decree already requires taxpayers to pay for K-12 education for undocumented students.

[snip]

2 posted on 10/18/2011 12:04:48 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Perry attacks administration at campaign stop in Hampton, N.H......"On immigration policy, Perry said he is opposed to amnesty and will always be opposed to amnesty. "For decades we have had a federal government that has failed its constitutional duty to protect its borders," he said. "You have to ask, are we going to have a president that is going to stop the illegal activities happening on the border?"

Gov Rick Perry spoke to LaRaza about the drug cartels, shared responsibility of border security and that it is Washington's responsibility to secure the border -- that the Federal government should support the military, deliver the mail and secure the border -- and they aren't doing their job. [HE RECEIVED a lot of applause] He spoke of the money Texas spends securing the border, that it must be sealed and then we can sustain legitimate commerce...He told about protecting the sanctity of the vote and strengthening our shared values, family, faith hard work -- they are TEXAS values and we should unite as citizen's of one Nation under God and concentrate on what unites us. He told his Cuervo joke and they found it funny unlike the Liberal Latino Leaders Give Perry Lukewarm Response (or more likely they'd heard it before)

3 posted on 10/18/2011 12:05:55 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Why is he speaking to La Raza in the first place? He should tell them to shove it.


4 posted on 10/18/2011 12:07:14 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Cincinatus' Wife

Constructing and maintaining a USA/Mexican border fence/system of fortifications/etc. could be the public works program of the 21st Century. Sounds like a win-win to me.


6 posted on 10/18/2011 12:07:38 AM PDT by MadJack ("Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet." (Afghan proverb))
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

So the HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS saved by not paying “entitlements” (welfare, medical, food stamps, K-PhD education, etc.) to illegals wouldn’t pay for a fence many times over? You Perrywinkles slay me!!


7 posted on 10/18/2011 12:08:46 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You can't invade the US. There'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass.~Yamamoto)
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To: MadJack
Perry in helicopter with Greta (TX-MX border is over 1250 miles)

2007: [excerpt] “If you show up illegally, without your card or you’re here as a criminal element, I’m for throwing the book at those folks, but the issue of people who want to legally, thoughtfully and appropriately come to America to work and help us build our economy — we should quickly come up with a program and an identification card to do that.” [end excerpt] Source

*********

"......When Obama continued to refuse even five minutes for the Governor, Perry took matters into this own hands and was standing on the tarmac at Austin’s airport when President Obama stepped off of Air Force One. Obama looked confused, Perry looked determined. Obama still ignored the pleas for help.

Perry again took matters into his own hands, and established an elite unit of Texas Rangers to bolster border security..." Source

8 posted on 10/18/2011 12:09:06 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: MadJack
Yep. Electrified, guard towers every 200 yards with weapons mounts.

No, I'm not kidding.

9 posted on 10/18/2011 12:09:43 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Gov Perry's stand against amnesty tracks pretty well with Marco Rubio's comments:

November 2009: Rubio: Reagan erred in supporting 1986 amnesty for illegal immigrants“If you grant amnesty, the message that you’re sending is that if you come in this country and stay here long enough, we will let you stay. And no one will ever come through the legal process if you do that.”

Rubio said the U.S. must first get control of its borders and its visa system, which often allows people to enter legally but remain after their visas expire.

“Only after you deal with illegal immigration in a serious way — seal the border and the visa problem — can you then create a legal immigration system that works. That still leaves you with 11 million people that are here illegally,” Rubio said.

While criticizing amnesty for those illegals, he also rejected the idea of a massive “police-state” roundup. He suggested requiring tamper-proof residency and guest-worker cards and fining employers who don’t verify that their workers are legal. That, Rubio said, would bring the 11 million figure down “dramatically by attrition.”

Asked later about about Reagan’s support for amnesty, Rubio said, “I think he did it for the right reasons, but I think it ended up working the wrong way.”

Rubio’s no-amnesty stance on illegal immigrants has drawn some criticism from immigration hard-liners who say Rubio didn’t advance the issue when he was House speaker and the collapse of federal immigration reform efforts led state legislators around the U.S. to propose a variety of state-level immigration measures."......

10 posted on 10/18/2011 12:10:24 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

“Rick Perry is hardly a mushy liberal”

Say what? Is he talking about a different Rick Perry than the one who gets all weak-kneed and misty-eyed at the thought that some foreign citizen here illegally might not get a tuition break to attend college?


11 posted on 10/18/2011 12:10:32 AM PDT by Meet the New Boss
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Don’t take our word for it; take Rick Perry’s.

Oh brother....Rick Perry’s word. What liberalism will he spew today. Michele bachmann is a hero who took one for the conservative movement by ridding ourselves of the rodent named Perry. Thank You Michele!!!!! All true conservatives owe you a lot. Our country was saved by you and Santorum!!! God bless both of you!!!!


12 posted on 10/18/2011 12:12:29 AM PDT by napscoordinator
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To: buccaneer81
Why is he speaking to La Raza in the first place? He should tell them to shove it.

Perhaps if you listened to the LINK I provided, you would hear he's telling them things YOU would want him to say.

13 posted on 10/18/2011 12:12:39 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"That still leaves you with 11 million people that are here illegally,” Rubio said.

I hear the Canadians build a sweet luxury bus (Mr. Obama has one!) There ya go!

14 posted on 10/18/2011 12:13:43 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You can't invade the US. There'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass.~Yamamoto)
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To: Meet the New Boss; napscoordinator

Nice opposition posting.

Got something to go with that?


15 posted on 10/18/2011 12:13:46 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Meet the New Boss

I think they’re talking about that Rick Perry guy who was all gung-ho about forcing VD vaccines on 12 year old girls.


16 posted on 10/18/2011 12:14:33 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Of course we can build a wall, and it is possible and necessary.

Not much logic in “saving” by not building a wall, but he “...would increase manpower on the border...”

How much would that cost Americans? Less manpower, and an impenetrable wall, in the end, is more cost effective. No illegals running, cutting, and digging under our “fence” (thus eliminating a drain on our state and federal tax dollars and resources), and a more effective means in protecting our borders, and sovereignty.


17 posted on 10/18/2011 12:14:55 AM PDT by This Just In
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

They need to be locked up, not spoken with.


18 posted on 10/18/2011 12:15:40 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I heard the Canadians built the heavy duty frame — the same frame they built for McCain’s “Straight-talk Express” bus.

I was thinking the other morning — Obama said the government (us) bought two buses because the other one will be used by the GOP nominee. I suggest that Rick Perry do a HUGE de-bug sweep of that bus.


19 posted on 10/18/2011 12:16:43 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Got something to go with that?

Isn't telling people who disagree with giving illegals tuition breaks that "they have no heart" the very definition of "mushy liberal"?

Liberalism is nothing if not a shallow self-righteous posture of compassion.

20 posted on 10/18/2011 12:18:26 AM PDT by Meet the New Boss
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Nice try in trying to highjack this thread. Go campaign for Perry on some other site. DU would be a nice little hamlet to start.

This thread is about Romney and Cain.


21 posted on 10/18/2011 12:18:39 AM PDT by This Just In
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Ha! I have as much of a chance of at using that bus next year as your boy does. NONE.


22 posted on 10/18/2011 12:18:42 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: This Just In

My apologies to Cincinatus’ Wife.

I posted on the wrong thread (kicking own posterior).


23 posted on 10/18/2011 12:20:33 AM PDT by This Just In
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Will he be Mr. Cain's body man like Reggie Love is for Mr. Obama? Or Mr. Cain's campaign bus driver?* If not, how will he be on that bus?

-

*That'd come in handy if they see a coyote.

24 posted on 10/18/2011 12:21:22 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You can't invade the US. There'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass.~Yamamoto)
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To: This Just In
How much would that cost Americans? Less manpower, and an impenetrable wall, in the end, is more cost effective...effective means in protecting our borders, and sovereignty.

What a picture of weakness that would project to our enemies.

Why don't you research that cost thing?

25 posted on 10/18/2011 12:24:12 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Question: How does Mexico treat those from other countries who sneak into their country? Shouldn’t we be at least as strict as they are?


26 posted on 10/18/2011 12:26:21 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You can't invade the US. There'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass.~Yamamoto)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

It’s not about money. It’s not even about the issue of a fence. It’s about defending La Raza Rick Perry at any cost with the hope, remote as it may be, that they can resuscitated his train wreck of a campaign.


27 posted on 10/18/2011 12:26:21 AM PDT by South40 ('Heartless' since 1957)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
What a picture of weakness that would project to our enemies.

What do you think the presence of 20 million illegals and a joke of a border make us look like now?

Geeez Louise...

28 posted on 10/18/2011 12:26:37 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I’ve looked at Perry’s statements on the border fence and border security.

When Perry was asked whether he supported the fence originally envisioned by the Secure Fence Act, he indicated that he would not build that fence, but only fence what he deems to be “strategic,” which is as solid as the typical campaign promise of a professional politician.

Perry seems to make avoiding the inconveniencing of farmers his first priority with respect to fencing.

Perry typically offers a false choice between boots on the ground and a fence. We all know that maintaining forever the annual funding for high numbers of boots on the ground is a chimera. Nevertheless Perry rejects building out the fence, which would let us get by with a lower annual appropriation for fewer boots on the ground.

Here’s what we can expect from President Perry in my view:

1. A couple of years of higher “boots on the ground” and a bit of fencing here and there for public relations purposes. The “boots” focus on criminal activity such as drug cartels and not so much on hindering ordinary illegals.

2. Further foot-dragging on requiring employers to screen employees for illegals using databases

3. After a couple of years, Perry declares the border “secure” enough, saying that it is impossible to achieve perfection.

4. Perry pushes “comprehensive immigration reform” through congress. The Republican congress is unable to resist this when it comes from someone in their own party.

His idea of legalizing them but denying them voting rights will not last long.

Americans do not want an entire class of “second class citizens.” Either they will go ahead and give them the path to citizenship at the first bite at the apple, or wait a couple of years and then do it.


29 posted on 10/18/2011 12:27:35 AM PDT by Meet the New Boss
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To: buccaneer81; All

That worked so well between East and West Germany.


30 posted on 10/18/2011 12:29:27 AM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
'Heartless'
31 posted on 10/18/2011 12:29:40 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: South40

Poll: Perry now down to … three percent in Florida
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2794114/posts

IBOPE Zogby Poll (Cain 45%, Romney 21%, Rick Perry 7%, Bachmann, 1%)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2793986/posts

Texas Tea Party Activists Demand Perry Push Immigration Bills
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2793073/posts


32 posted on 10/18/2011 12:30:19 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You can't invade the US. There'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass.~Yamamoto)
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To: Meet the New Boss
La Raza Rick isn't opposed to a fence. He's opposed, as are most all pro-ILLEGAL alien 'moderates', to the idea of having a fence.

He didn't build a career pandering to ILLEGAL aliens by fencing them out.

33 posted on 10/18/2011 12:30:56 AM PDT by South40 ('Heartless' since 1957)
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To: buccaneer81

Cause he kisses mexican a$$, but some here want us to ignore the fact that giving in-state tuition to ILLEGALS is an immigration issue and NOT an education issue.

If he is going to do this in Texas, why in the hell should I believe he won’t do the same to the rest of us!


34 posted on 10/18/2011 12:31:23 AM PDT by packrat35 (America is rapidly becoming a police state that East Germany could be proud of!)
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To: gleeaikin
That worked so well between East and West Germany.

You are aware the Berlin Wall was built to keep people IN, right?

35 posted on 10/18/2011 12:32:03 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

You were one of FR good guys. I don’t know what happened but it’s impossible to debate you or question anything about Cain. It’s disappointing.


36 posted on 10/18/2011 12:32:12 AM PDT by chesty_puller (Viet Nam 1970-71 He who shed blood with me shall forever be my brother. Shak.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Picture of weakness that would project to our enemies? And you’re advising me to research?

We don’t give a care about projecting. As any military historian, officer, or soldier would tell you, “projecting” doesn’t mean diddly squat in battle. You can march around with that realistic water pistol all the live-long day, but once your head’s blown off, you’re not going to impress anyone, let alone your enemies.

It’s called war. We’re in it. Bring big guns, and heavy defenses. That includes a big wall.

Or am I being “heartless”?


37 posted on 10/18/2011 12:32:51 AM PDT by This Just In
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
La Raza Rick is down to single digits?


38 posted on 10/18/2011 12:33:01 AM PDT by South40 ('Heartless' since 1957)
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To: gleeaikin

The Iron Curtain was built to keep people in, not out, like prison walls, so your comparison really doesn’t work. Sorry. Every nation-state reserves the right to enforce it’s borders.


39 posted on 10/18/2011 12:33:16 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You can't invade the US. There'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass.~Yamamoto)
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To: buccaneer81

This war on our border is BS! Federal protection of our border is BS!

Perry wants the border sealed, the cartels killed off and no amnesty. He wants fencing in urban areas where it works, drones for intel and boots on the ground.

If we can’t do that, but instead start the construction of a 25 foot wall for 2000 miles on our southern border, that makes us look weak.

Homeland Sec. Janet Napolatano is talking of boots on the ground and drone coverage for our border with Canada — what is that about 8,000 miles inc Alaska — why refuse the southern border govs the same things?

What next? How about our shores — rolled wire barriers?

What about the skies overhead?


40 posted on 10/18/2011 12:33:59 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I have long been a proponent of strategic bombing of the Mexican side of the border. Establish a mile wide no mans zone and kill anything that tries to cross it.


41 posted on 10/18/2011 12:34:27 AM PDT by BigCinBigD
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To: chesty_puller
I'm not a Cain supporter, but I have a LOT of questions about Perry, and an abhorrence for Milt Romney.
42 posted on 10/18/2011 12:35:01 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You can't invade the US. There'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass.~Yamamoto)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; buccaneer81; gleeaikin
That kook Ron Paul made a similar statement that a wall would keep Americans in.
43 posted on 10/18/2011 12:36:55 AM PDT by South40 ('Heartless' since 1957)
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To: Meet the New Boss

Why don’t you give me some LINKS to support all your supposing?


44 posted on 10/18/2011 12:37:15 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

The 80,000 illegal Mexicans in my city didn’t wash up on the coasts. They came across an unwalled border, and you’re just fine with that. Maybe Texans want to the filth I see with those people, but we don’t. Perry is a pandering illegal-loving wuss.


45 posted on 10/18/2011 12:38:33 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: South40

Wrong Paul is Dennis Kucinich with 25% added crazy.


46 posted on 10/18/2011 12:38:52 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You can't invade the US. There'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass.~Yamamoto)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

If Perry was against illegal immigration he would be requiring employers to use e-verify like Arizona has done.

If Perry was against illegal immigration he would be pushing for a law like the Alabama law in Texas.

If Perry was against illegal immigration sanctuary cities would have been ended in Texas a long time ago.

If Perry was against illegal immigration he would not be in favor of giving a tuition break to illegals who are not even allowed to work in the country.

And Perry does indeed want amnesty, at least in the sense of the ordinary meaning of the word, which is to say letting people get away with their violation of the law: “That’s why I support a guest worker program that takes undocumented workers off the black market and legitimizes their economic contributions without providing them citizenship status.”


47 posted on 10/18/2011 12:39:13 AM PDT by Meet the New Boss
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Perry wants the border sealed, the cartels killed off and no amnesty.

No amnesty, you say?

But just to be clear: if border security is accomplished, you can envision some sort of path to citizenship for people who are here illegally.

La Raza Rick Perry: Sure.

La Raza Rick Perry on the record

A "Path to citizenship" is amnesty regardless how many times you deny it.

48 posted on 10/18/2011 12:40:27 AM PDT by South40 ('Heartless' since 1957)
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To: buccaneer81

Cincinatus’ Wife said:

“Perry wants the border sealed, the cartels killed off and no amnesty. He wants fencing in urban areas where it works, drones for intel and boots on the ground.

If we can’t do that, but instead start the construction of

a 25 foot wall for 2000 miles on our southern border, that makes us look weak.

Homeland Sec. Janet Napolatano is talking of boots on the ground and drone coverage for our border with Canada — what is that about 8,000 miles inc Alaska — why refuse the southern border govs the same things?

What next? How about our shores — rolled wire barriers?

What about the skies overhead?”

buccaneer81, I have come to the conclusion that Cincinatus’ Wife is not worth debating. The above comment is so full of illogical fallacies and hyperbole that it would make Einsteins head spin.


49 posted on 10/18/2011 12:40:30 AM PDT by This Just In
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To: Meet the New Boss

If my aunt had stones she’d be my uncle.


50 posted on 10/18/2011 12:40:33 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You can't invade the US. There'd be a rifle behind every blade of grass.~Yamamoto)
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