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Ohio Supreme Court Oral Arguments In Smoking Ban Challenge streaming live
Ohio Channel ^ | 10/19/11 | OSSC

Posted on 10/19/2011 6:59:56 AM PDT by Pontiac

click here to read article


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To: TSgt
There are plenty of examples that prove that untrue unless you submit to taxation on the acts, your rights are diminished. One can't yell fire in a crowded theater and many businesses like those that are sexual oriented are restricted. You need a liquor license to serve alcohol, the list goes on...

There, I fixed it for you. Besides, what's one more right?

41 posted on 10/19/2011 8:24:56 AM PDT by RobertClark (It's better to look goofy with a rifle, than civilized with an exit wound.)
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To: Gabz

Does inhaling the smoke clean it and strip it of all carcinogens before it is exhaled? Two people sit in a closed garage with a car running, which one of them dies?

Private “clubs” are restricted from selling alcohol without a license and are also restricted from various other activities.

This is nothing new.


42 posted on 10/19/2011 8:25:01 AM PDT by TSgt (Legal Disclaimer: View my profile at your own risk)
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To: patton

you’ve got FReepmail.


43 posted on 10/19/2011 8:26:02 AM PDT by Gabz (Democrats for Voldemort.)
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To: patton
No - that is why I don’t take my kids to smoking bars

So you do agree that secondhand smoke is harmful! This is a great first step! I'm proud of you!
44 posted on 10/19/2011 8:27:27 AM PDT by TSgt (Legal Disclaimer: View my profile at your own risk)
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To: Pontiac
If the government had stayed out of the issue more and more restaurants would have had non-smoking policies

You've got that right.

When we were fighting the ban in Delaware, one the most vocal opponents to the ban was the owner of a very popular bar and restaurant that had gone non smoking. He had found his niche market, was doing very well with it, and did not want the government messing with his business plan.

On the other hand, the owner of another popular spot wanted to go non smoking, but was afraid he would lose business to places that permitted it and so wanted the government to step in and force everyone to go smokefree to protect his business.

We need to curb government before it curbs us.

BINGO!!!

45 posted on 10/19/2011 8:33:54 AM PDT by Gabz (Democrats for Voldemort.)
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To: TSgt
There are plenty of examples that prove that untrue. One can't yell fire in a crowded theater and many businesses like those that are sexual oriented are restricted. You need a liquor license to serve alcohol, the list goes on...

These are fallacious arguments.

Yelling fire in a theater is creating a public danger.

Sex related businesses are typically controlled by zoning requirements and are do not have blanket restriction.

The ability to regulate alcohol was granted the to the States by the 21st Amendment. And is typically used primarily to ensure the state gets its taxes.

The transportation or importation into any State, Territory, or possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby prohibited.

The 21st Amendment has been generally viewed by the courts to give the States broad powers to regulate alcohol

46 posted on 10/19/2011 8:34:24 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: TSgt
Sounds to me like the free market is tackling this issue or do we want to bitch about this also being unfair? You can't have it both ways...

I wasn’t bitching about it.

I was responding to a comment and making an observation.

47 posted on 10/19/2011 8:40:35 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac

And the Ohio Constitution allows citizens to bring referendum issues to vote, which they did and you lost. :)


48 posted on 10/19/2011 8:41:41 AM PDT by TSgt (Legal Disclaimer: View my profile at your own risk)
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To: TSgt
Many of these “surcharges” are not free market based on actuarial studies but on popular sentiments. People with bad dietary and exercise habits consume far more in health care costs and pay no penalty because it is not supported by popular sentiment, yet! There are many health risk factors that are averaged over premiums, and some such as age, which are group averaged. If these were all broken out, many people would be paying what they consider unfair surcharges. Free market forces will eventually play out, but artificially inflated surcharges are just a passing fad to make people feel good that smokers are being forced to “pay their fair share”. Where have we heard that before?
49 posted on 10/19/2011 8:48:41 AM PDT by trubolotta
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To: TSgt; patton
Does inhaling the smoke clean it and strip it of all carcinogens before it is exhaled?

2 scientific truths come to mind with that irrelevant question: Correlation does not equal causation and the poison is in the dose.

Two people sit in a closed garage with a car running, which one of them dies?

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I do believe patton laid out the proper analogy, as yours is meaningless.

Private “clubs” are restricted from selling alcohol without a license and are also restricted from various other activities.

We are not discussing alcohol, thus it has no bearing on the discussion. I asked you since when is a private club a public place?

50 posted on 10/19/2011 8:49:16 AM PDT by Gabz (Democrats for Voldemort.)
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To: TSgt

“So you do agree that secondhand smoke is harmful! This is a great first step! I’m proud of you!”

Not good at reading comprhension, are you? Heck, you probably think these united states are a democracy.


51 posted on 10/19/2011 8:55:31 AM PDT by patton ("Je pense donc je suis," - My Horse.)
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To: TSgt
It’s only mob rule if you don’t like the outcome. Otherwise it’s called democracy.

We live in a Constitutional Republic.

The founders were students of history and warned about the tendency of democracies to become tyrannical.

Our constitution protects the rights of individuals. The majority does not have the power in this country under the constitution to infringe on the basic rights of the individual.

If you read the history behind the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution you will find the many of the usurpations of basic rights the founders found intolerable were violations of property rights.

52 posted on 10/19/2011 8:56:10 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: TSgt
And the Ohio Constitution allows citizens to bring referendum issues to vote, which they did and you lost. :)

By the same reasoning, Ohio voters could

1) ban cars which do not get 40 mpg, 2) ban trans-fats and salt in food, 3) forbid the use of fireplaces, 4) forbid backyard pools, 5) require restaurants put tofu on their menus, 6) where does it end? When we all lose?

53 posted on 10/19/2011 9:05:24 AM PDT by trubolotta
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To: Gabz

By their standard Obamacare is permanent and positive since it was passed democratically.


54 posted on 10/19/2011 9:31:32 AM PDT by relictele (Pax Quaeritur Bello)
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To: Pontiac

The Smoking Nazis rule!

Individual rights be damned!


55 posted on 10/19/2011 9:35:22 AM PDT by Iron Munro ('We do have tough gun laws in Massachusetts; I support them.' -- Mitt Romney)
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To: relictele

You’ve got that right, and it’s down right scary.


56 posted on 10/19/2011 10:01:00 AM PDT by Gabz (Democrats for Voldemort.)
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To: All

Pretty much says it all...

Study: Smokers Have Lower IQs Than Non-Smokers
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,587241,00.html


57 posted on 10/19/2011 10:02:02 AM PDT by TSgt (Legal Disclaimer: View my profile at your own risk)
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To: trubolotta; TSgt
TSgt: And the Ohio Constitution allows citizens to bring referendum issues to vote, which they did and you lost. :)

trubolotta: By the same reasoning, Ohio voters could:

Mandate smoking be permitted in ALL bars, restaurants, and private clubs.

58 posted on 10/19/2011 10:06:45 AM PDT by Gabz (Democrats for Voldemort.)
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To: Gabz

How about the Ohio voters just leave things alone and let the individual restaurant, bar and private club owners decide for themselves. It is not the property of the Ohio voters to mandate anything. Unless they ban the sale and use of tobacco, there is no other justification for banning a legal activity if it is not their property.


59 posted on 10/19/2011 10:15:47 AM PDT by trubolotta
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60 posted on 10/19/2011 10:20:51 AM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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