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Changes Coming to 9-9-9? (One of Cain's advisers says national sales tax a non-starter)
National Review ^ | 10/19/2011 | Andrew Stiles

Posted on 10/19/2011 10:09:47 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

Tthe Wall Street Journal’s Steve Moore, who helped design Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 tax plan, is having second thoughts about the political viability of the national sales tax aspect of the plan and has recommended a 9 percent payroll tax to replace it.

In an interview with National Review Online, Moore explains that he has “come to the conclusion that a national sales tax is just a nonstarter,” politically. While he wasn’t expecting such a hostile reaction to the idea, Moore concedes that “people are naturally suspicious of a new tax.”

Cain’s current plan would eliminate the payroll tax altogether, and he often touts this as a selling point. However, enthusiasm over the elimination of an existing tax has been overshadowed by concern over the prospect of creating an entirely new revenue source for the federal government. Indeed, as Cain’s poll numbers have continued to rise and other candidates have begun to target him, the “new tax” argument has been a favorite line of attack.

Moore recommends as easy fix — set the payroll tax at 9 percent across the board (a reduction from current levels), while eliminating the existing cap on the amount of income from wages that can be taxed. Moore estimates that this new version of the plan would raise “roughly the same amount” of revenue as the current one, and argues that Cain would be “well-advised” to make the change. It is simply a matter of being “better off with the devil we know than the devil we don’t know.”

That’s not to say that Moore no longer likes the 9-9-9 plan in its current form. “I’d take a national sales tax if it gets [income-tax] rates down to nine percent,” he says. “But there are some very real objections out there.”

Moore acknowledges that despite the criticism from other Republicans, Cain has been a capable defender of the plan its current form. And while he doesn’t expect to see the candidate announce any changes in tonight’s debate, Moore thinks the transition could be relatively smooth. “Is it a capitulation? No. It’s just a strategic change,” he says.

“Republican voters want to blow up the current tax system and start over, and Herman Cain is one of the few who has proposed doing that,” Moore says. “He has the boldest plan out there right now.”


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 999; hermancain; nationalbooktour; nationalvictorytour; salestax

1 posted on 10/19/2011 10:09:56 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

I am 100% fine with 9-9-9 becoming 12-12, or something of that level.


2 posted on 10/19/2011 10:13:05 AM PDT by ilgipper (Everything you get from the government was taken from someone else)
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To: SeekAndFind

Ahh yes, the Moore that gave us Sharon Angle.

Art Laffer endorses 999 and goes over the plan in this article.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204346104576637310315367804.html?mod=rss_opinion_main


3 posted on 10/19/2011 10:14:52 AM PDT by Fred (But we are never going to survive unless we get a little crazy)
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To: SeekAndFind

http://www.999calculator.net/

Decide for yourselves...


4 posted on 10/19/2011 10:15:47 AM PDT by Fred (But we are never going to survive unless we get a little crazy)
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To: SeekAndFind
Great. The sales tax is THE way to make those who pay nothing pay into the system.
5 posted on 10/19/2011 10:15:59 AM PDT by teenyelliott (www.therightscoop.com/herman-cain-brings-the-house-down-at-values-voter-summit/)
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To: SeekAndFind

If a sales tax is a non-starter as part of the 9-9-9 plan then how can the Fair Tax ever be considered much less implemented?


6 posted on 10/19/2011 10:16:11 AM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: Fred

Moore is just showing he can’t take the heat, IMO.

Herman Cain on GITMO Prisoners, 999, Moore
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzujv6zEzmg


7 posted on 10/19/2011 10:16:21 AM PDT by justsaynomore (Cain 2012 - http://teamcain.hermancain.com)
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To: Fred
Art Laffer endorses 999 and goes over the plan in this article.

I'm not sure what 9-9-9 plan Laffer is talking about but his article speaks of an exemption for people below the poverty level that the plan doesn't contain.

8 posted on 10/19/2011 10:18:28 AM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: ilgipper

RE: I am 100% fine with 9-9-9 becoming 12-12, or something of that level.

_____________

If 9-9-9 EVER becomes law, I’d really like to see WHO will even attempt to change one of those numbers to a higher one.

He’d be singled out for political crucifixion by both high and low income wage earners (who will now be paying something) alike.


9 posted on 10/19/2011 10:19:09 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (u)
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To: SoJoCo
non-starter politically is what he said. Says nothing about being a non-starter economically. As a matter of fact, it was proposed as an economical answer.
10 posted on 10/19/2011 10:22:27 AM PDT by mazda77 (and I am a Native Texan)
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To: ilgipper; Fred

9-9-9. Now 12-12. They can’t get their stories straight.

This is a diversion from 15 Trillion, 15 Trillion, Fifteen Trillion in spending.

So, all you conservatives that want to stop the insanity and not drive the country off a cliff,instead, go argue about how to best fund the Federal Government.


11 posted on 10/19/2011 10:22:37 AM PDT by ngat
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To: SeekAndFind

by both high and low income wage earners (who will now be paying something)

///
brilliant point.

finally we’d have a system, that doesn’t allow NON-taxpayers, to VOTE for tax increases on OTHERS !

not to mention the other benefits of the plan,
like INSTANTLY making USA produced products 40% MORE competitive in the world...


12 posted on 10/19/2011 10:23:24 AM PDT by Elendur (It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: SeekAndFind

The sales tax portion of the plan is the piece that puts skin in the game for every American equally as well as every illegal immigrant and visitor to our nation. It is the only totally transparent tax -- the standard bearer that when shaken the nation goes on alert. Without that piece, the whole plan is worthless. Both the Democrats and Republicans who have built careers out of muddying tax code will rebel against a national sales tax. They fear it. As well they should.


13 posted on 10/19/2011 10:25:24 AM PDT by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: mazda77
non-starter politically is what he said. Says nothing about being a non-starter economically. As a matter of fact, it was proposed as an economical answer.

OK, so if a sales tax is a non-starter politically as part of the 9-9-9 plan then how can the Fair Tax ever be considered politically much less implemented?

14 posted on 10/19/2011 10:25:54 AM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: All

I wonder how 9-9-9 would affect a member of congress with all their perks.


15 posted on 10/19/2011 10:30:05 AM PDT by Terry Mross (I'll only vote for a SECOND party.)
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To: SoJoCo
Simple. HE IS NOT A POLITICIAN, but the rest of them are! Does that help in answering the other question in the back of your mind as to why he has been gaining in support, even without the money?
16 posted on 10/19/2011 10:30:31 AM PDT by mazda77 (and I am a Native Texan)
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To: teenyelliott
Great. The sales tax is THE way to make those who pay nothing pay into the system.

Same here. The tax concept should be "We don't care how you get your money, we'll get you when you spend it." (wire transfers to Mexico, et al, come to mind)

17 posted on 10/19/2011 10:34:20 AM PDT by Oatka ("A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." –Bertrand de Jouvenel)
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To: SeekAndFind

Awe heck, they will just approve “temporary” increases.
We know how the suckers always fall for that old line. ;-)


18 posted on 10/19/2011 10:36:39 AM PDT by Average Al (Forbidden fruit leads to many jams.)
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To: SeekAndFind
"set the payroll tax at 9 percent across the board (a reduction from current levels), while eliminating the existing cap on the amount of income from wages that can be taxed."

I can accept the following: 9% employee payroll tax, 9% employer match, (both of the preceding dedicated to SS benefits and Medicare), 9% flat rate income tax with an exclusion of Social Security Benefits, plus the 9% corporate.

19 posted on 10/19/2011 10:39:17 AM PDT by matthew fuller (9-9-9 ? Just say No! No! No!)
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To: mazda77

That’s what I was thinking while reading the article. “Non starter politically”? That’s what Cain is all about. I doubt he’s going to capitulate to a statement like that. He’ll let Chuck Shumer and Mitch McConnell tell the American people why saving 12.00 for every 100.00 you spend is bad for them.


20 posted on 10/19/2011 10:44:34 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I don’t like any plan which extends federal tentacles into every purchase at every cash register. Far too enabling of bureaucratic expansion, far too nosy, far too capable of per-product & per-customer manipulation.

Better to have the feds just send each state a bill once a year; let the states figure out how they’ll come up with that money. Reduce the IRS to a couple guys writing 50 bills and cashing 50 checks for a few days a year.


21 posted on 10/19/2011 10:48:41 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: SeekAndFind

Let us hope that Mr. Cain’s staff of advisers has not been penetrated by a saboteur. But Mr. Cain’s main driver does not have two legs because He doesn’t need them. And He is never wrong.


22 posted on 10/19/2011 10:56:26 AM PDT by Paperdoll (I like Herman Cain.)
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To: ilgipper

12-12 is too much. 10 Sales Tax on final sales only, and 10 corporate & personal income only.


23 posted on 10/19/2011 11:13:24 AM PDT by Arlis (- Virginia loghome/woods-dweller/Jesus lovin'/Bible-totin'/"gun-clinger")
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To: SeekAndFind

That 9-9-9 plan is pure horse manure!
We need a national sales tax like we need oh, I dunno, a Kenyan president!
And I ran the numbers a few days ago: without any unusual deductions, except putting the maximum allowable in my 401k, my wife and I paid income tax amounting to 8.7% of my UNadjusted gross income of just over $135,000 last year.
So Herman Cain’s “9-9-9” plan would be a massive increase in taxes to me!


24 posted on 10/19/2011 11:16:29 AM PDT by Redbob (W.W.J.B.D.: "What Would Jack Bauer Do?")
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To: SeekAndFind

What would that do to pre-tax benefit contributions? They’d be taxed?

What about the contractual agreement between me and my employer that the contributions are pre-tax?


25 posted on 10/19/2011 11:19:00 AM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alterations - The acronym explains the science.)
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To: Fred

Cain’s Stimulating 9-9-9- Plan (Laffer)
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204346104576637310315367804.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

Why I Support Herman Cain For President (Charles Kadlec joins Cain’s economic team)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2795074/posts

Reagan Economist Breaks Down 999 Plan
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1217420754001/reagan-economist-breaks-down-999-planReagan

Backing for Cain’s plan also came from Kevin Hassett, senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute also praised the Cain’s proposal for moving towards a flat tax. “If someone’s going to attack the 9-9-9 plan, I would say they should be careful because you are talking about the Republican holy grail,” he told the Associated Press.
http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/Cain-999-tax-plan/2011/10/14/id/414487

Rich Lowrie Discusses Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 Plan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iKkDcDmf7I

Paul Ryan Likes Cain’s Plan
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46850

Dick Morris Defends 999
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuikrVmN6Yo&feature=feedu

How is Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 Plan Good for America
https://sites.google.com/site/giveemcain/home

Club for Growth defends Herman Cain, 9-9-9 plan
Club for Growth President Chris Chocola called the 9-9-9 “an outline for a more prosperous and globally competitive America,” saying it is “both pro-growth and a good starting point on the way to a flat or fair tax.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/65967.html#ixzz1alhFr6NM

Can Herman Cain’s Plan work?
http://axdwhiteman.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102%3Acan-herman-cains-999-plan-work

Why We Need Herman Cain’s plan:
http://www.nerds4cain.com/Blog/archives/759

Office of Tax Analysis for the U.S. Treasury Gary Robbins analyzed and scored his plan. Cain said the analysis shows that his plan will “initially create 6 million jobs and that it will bring the unemployment rate down initially to about half of what it is today.”
http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/09/22/fox-first-cain-reveals-his-economic-secret-kitchen-cabinet#ixzz1aaTbfWLN

What do these numbers mean for me?
http://www.nerds4cain.com/Blog/archives/723

53% of People Favor Tax Code that Treats Taxpayers Equally
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/taxes/october_2011/53_favor_tax_code_that_treats_all_taxpayers_equally

Embedded taxes
http://www.ipi.org/ipi%5CIPIPublications.nsf/0/3F31DF6F0D040EE986256AB700630B84/$File/PR160-HiddenTax-FINAL.pdf?OpenElement
___________

Calculators:
Income: http://raisingcain2012.wordpress.com/about/
Sales Tax: http://www.999calculator.net


26 posted on 10/19/2011 12:01:56 PM PDT by justsaynomore (Cain 2012 - http://teamcain.hermancain.com)
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To: Terry Mross

Truth is Government employees don’t pay tax in the first place, it is an illusion, because the money all comes out of the same taxpayer pot in the first place, it works sort of like Union Dues. Corporations likewise pay no tax, they collect tax for the government.

Someone should make a definitive study of the imbedded tax in every product. Cain made a half hearted attempt to illustrate that in the cost of a loaf of bread.

If he had used actual figures that showed the cost before and after the current imbedded tax and the 9% sales tax. Should be easy to illustrate, if what he claims is true, and I believe it is.


27 posted on 10/19/2011 12:03:41 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will write in Palin. We can not save the Republic by electing those who plan to destroy it.)
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To: justsaynomore

Nice work


28 posted on 10/19/2011 12:03:57 PM PDT by Fred (no job no house no gas no food no problem Obama 2012)
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To: so_real

The NRST, with a repeal of the power to tax income,
should be THE end game,

with 999 just being the intermediate way to get there.


29 posted on 10/19/2011 12:05:33 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: matthew fuller
9% employee payroll tax, 9% employer match,

You do realize that you are paying both of these right?

30 posted on 10/19/2011 12:06:06 PM PDT by itsahoot (I will write in Palin. We can not save the Republic by electing those who plan to destroy it.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Face it: any "non-discriminatory" or "flat" tax (where everyone pays the same percentage) will be decried by liberals because it "raises taxes on the poor and middle class".

Why? Because the bulk of their welfare whore voters pay little or no taxes now!

31 posted on 10/19/2011 4:19:29 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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