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Birthers say Marco Rubio is not eligible to be president
St. Petersburg Times ^ | October 20, 2011 | Alex Leary

Posted on 10/20/2011 1:47:23 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

Unable to prevent Barack Obama from becoming president, rigid followers of the Constitution have turned their attention to another young, charismatic politician many think could one day occupy the White House.

The birthers are calling for U.S.Sen. Marco Rubio, the budding Republican star from Florida.

"It's nothing to do with him personally. But you can't change the rules because you like a certain person. Then you have no rules," said New Jersey lawyer Mario Apuzzo.

Forget about allegedly Photoshopped birth certificates; the activists are not challenging whether Rubio was born in Miami. Rather, they say Rubio is ineligible under Article 2 of the Constitution, which says "no person except a natural born citizen … shall be eligible to the Office of President."

The rub is that "natural born citizen" was never defined.

[snip]

"It's a little confusing, but most scholars think it's a pretty unusual position for anyone to think the natural born citizen clause would exclude someone born in the U.S.," said Polly Price, a law professor at Emory University in Atlanta who specializes in immigration and citizenship.

Price said natural born was likely drawn from the concept that anyone born in what was once a colony was considered a subject and parental status was not a factor.

But there is sufficient muddiness to fuel the birthers, many still angry with the Republican establishment for not taking their case against Obama more seriously. Rubio was among them, saying he did not think it was an issue.

"The other shoe has dropped," conservative figure Alan Keyes said on a radio program last month. "Now you've got Republicans talking about Marco Rubio for president when it's obviously clear that he does not qualify. Regardless of party label, they don't care about Constitution. It's all just empty, lying lip service."

[snip]

(Excerpt) Read more at tampabay.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; Politics/Elections; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: alankeyes; birther; chesterarthur; citizenship; florida; ineligibleromney; marcorubio; mexicanromney; naturalborn; naturalborncitizen; romneynoteligble; rubio; rubio2012
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I've seen some sparing over this issue on FR.

This is long article about the history of this controversy.

1 posted on 10/20/2011 1:47:33 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

There is no sparring. National law is national law. I strongly suggest you read the whole article written by Leo Donofrio to get a better idea about what is happening on this issue.

See:

Multiple Instances Of Historical Scholarship Conclusively Establish The Supreme Court’s Holding In Minor v. Happersett As Standing Precedent On Citizenship – Obama Not Eligible.

http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/10/09/multiple-instances-of-historical-scholarship-conclusively-establish-the-supreme-courts-holding-in-minor-v-happersett-as-standing-precedent-on-citizenship-obama-not-eligible/


2 posted on 10/20/2011 1:56:16 AM PDT by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS U.S.A. PRESIDENT)
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Cool.

It will much harder for the MSM to paint Rubio as a darling of the far right.

He will be President soon enough.

There is no sparring.

He was born here, he can and will become President some day.


3 posted on 10/20/2011 2:05:16 AM PDT by Reaganez
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Cool.

It will much harder for the MSM to paint Rubio as a darling of the far right.

He will be President soon enough.

There is no sparring.

He was born here, he can and will become President some day.


4 posted on 10/20/2011 2:05:30 AM PDT by Reaganez
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Ronald Reagan’s Grandmother was born in Canada, he may not have been a natural born citizen.


5 posted on 10/20/2011 2:12:02 AM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

“Birthers” my backside.

There is no debate about where Marco was born (Miami in 1071)...the controversy has to do with his parents’ failure to get themselves naturalized until 1974.

Marco is a good man and a superb talent I was among the first to back him against Crist but according to the understanding of the Founders of “NBC,” he is clearly ineligible to be president or vice president.

Only a constitutional amendment would change that.

Either we take a constitutional view or a crass political view. I’ve made up my mind. The Constitution rules, always.


6 posted on 10/20/2011 2:16:34 AM PDT by Scanian
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To: SatinDoll

“...rigid followers of the Constitution...”

What is it that these people do not get. What is the oath taken by nearly everyone in governmentf “service”. “I swear to defend the Constitution of the United States...”

You don’t get to pick just the parts you like. That job is being handled by the Dems, way to many Republicans, and far too often, the SCOTUS. To say Rubio is elgible, you have to say Obama is elgible.


7 posted on 10/20/2011 2:21:28 AM PDT by David Isaac
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To: Reaganez

NOPE. You’re wrong.

He was born here, his parents were legal residents, that makes him a native born citizen.

See: United States Citizenship and Immigration Service - Citizenship

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=a2ec6811264a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=a2ec6811264a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD

There are three types of statutory citizenship recognized by the government:

-native born (jus solis) - born in the U.S.A.

-citizenship from parents (jus sanguinis) - derived from parents when born overseas

-naturalized - foreign national applies for citizenship

All three types of citizenhip have equal rights. All three can serve in the U.S.Congress, either in the House or Senate.

Natural born citizen is NOT a statutory type of citizenship nor is it recognized as such by the U.S. government.

It only appears in the U.S.Constitution as an eligibility requiremnet to be President.

The Presidency requires one to be a natural born citizen, that is born in the U.S.A. of citizen parents (jus solis plus jus sanguinis).

There is legal precedent in Minor v. Happersett (1875).

“The citizenship issue decided in Minor v. Happersett has been documented as precedent by multiple sources of legal scholarship...the Supreme Court issued two holdings in Minor; one on citizenship and the other on voting rights. That the citizenship issue is precedent, and not dictum, has never been questioned in our national history until now,..that for over a century before the appearance of Obama, Minor was recognized and cited as precedent on the definition of federal citizenship.”

Leo Donofrio - http://www.naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com


8 posted on 10/20/2011 2:23:23 AM PDT by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS U.S.A. PRESIDENT)
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To: nickcarraway

RR’s parents were U.S.citizens. His grandparents do not matter.


9 posted on 10/20/2011 2:24:53 AM PDT by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS U.S.A. PRESIDENT)
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To: David Isaac

I know, David.

There are a group within the U.S. that views our nation’s exceptionalism as a barrier to Global government. So little by little they are trying to breakdown those peices which prevent the nation from being dragged down to the level of the rest of the world.

Destroying the U.S.Constitution is a major piece of their plan. By enticing Republicans into drafting Rubio, who isn’t NBC, into running for the VP slot, those Globalists hope to break the Constitution down into confetti.


10 posted on 10/20/2011 2:31:32 AM PDT by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS U.S.A. PRESIDENT)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Well, duh! Love Marco Rubio, but he’s not qualified, and neither is Bobby Jindal.


11 posted on 10/20/2011 2:33:29 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I do not consider myself a birther but rather a Constitutionalist.

The title of the article is a put-down, in my opinion, of a great many patriotic men and women who’ve proudly served this nation and died to uphold its tenets.

I did read the article and the comments. Truly appalling, the extent of public ignorance concerning this issue.


12 posted on 10/20/2011 2:36:28 AM PDT by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS U.S.A. PRESIDENT)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I am a birther and I say Rubio is eligible.


13 posted on 10/20/2011 2:38:32 AM PDT by zeebee
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

LOL, a 35 year projection for the weather?

GTFOH!! They can’t get the weather right 35 hrs in advance much less 35 years.


14 posted on 10/20/2011 2:52:04 AM PDT by 101voodoo
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To: 101voodoo

apologies to all for somehow posting this in the wrong thread.

Have no idea how this happened, must be losing it.


15 posted on 10/20/2011 2:56:40 AM PDT by 101voodoo
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If Marco Rubio wants to run for anything he can. All he needs are votes.

If you say he is ineligible you will have to prove it in a court of law.

Until that happens he can do what he wants.

The courts have (and probably will not) ruled on Obama ....he is therefore eligible to be President.


16 posted on 10/20/2011 2:59:26 AM PDT by woofie
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To: zeebee
I am a birther and I say Rubio is eligible.
Then you are wrong.
17 posted on 10/20/2011 3:01:11 AM PDT by guardian_of_liberty (We must bind the Government with the Chains of the Constitution...)
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To: FReepers; everyone; All


Do You Stand for Free Republic?

Do You Support Your Forum With Your Donations?

FR NEEDS EVERY REGULAR USER TO DONATE!


WHAT WOULD YOU DO WITHOUT FREE REPUBLIC?

18 posted on 10/20/2011 3:02:21 AM PDT by onyx (You're here on FR so, support it! Compiling New Sarah Palin Ping List! Tell me if you want on it!)
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To: woofie

correction:

The courts have not ruled on Obama (and probably will not) ....he is therefore eligible to be President. In fact he is President ....a terrible one but still a President


19 posted on 10/20/2011 3:03:29 AM PDT by woofie
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To: Reaganez

No he won’t.


20 posted on 10/20/2011 3:05:12 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Born on American soil? Yes? Eligible to be President.

Born on American soil? No? Not eligible to be President.

Nothing else matters.


21 posted on 10/20/2011 3:17:33 AM PDT by WildWeasel
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; rxsid

This is a small portion of information from Freeper rxsid page:

John Bingham, “father of the 14th Amendment”, the abolitionist congressman from Ohio who prosecuted Lincoln’s assassins, reaffirmed the definition known to the framers, not once, but twice during Congressional discussions of Citizenship pertaining to the upcoming 14th Amendment and a 3rd time nearly 4 years after the 14th was adopted.

The House of Representatives definition for “natural born Citizen” was read into the Congressional Record during the Civil War, without contest!
“All from other lands, who by the terms of [congressional] laws and a compliance with their provisions become naturalized, are adopted citizens of the United States; all other persons born within the Republic, of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty, are natural born citizens. Gentleman can find no exception to this statement touching natural-born citizens except what is said in the Constitution relating to Indians.” (Cong. Globe, 37th, 2nd Sess., 1639 (1862)).

The House of Representatives definition for “natural born Citizen” was read into the Congressional Record after the Civil War, without contest!
“every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” (Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st Sess., 1291 (1866))”

No other Representative ever took issue with these words on the floor of the House. If you read the Congressional Globe to study these debates, you will see that many of the underlying issues were hotly contested. However, Bingham’s definition of “natural born citizen” (born of citizen parents in the sovereign territory of the U.S.) was never challenged on the floor of the House. Without a challenge on the definition, it appears the ALL where in agreement.

Then, during a debate (see pg. 2791) on April 25, 1872 regarding a certain Dr. Houard, who had been incarcerated in Spain, the issue was raised on the floor of the House of Representatives as to whether the man was a US citizen (generally. they were not trying to decide if he was a NBC). Representative Bingham (of Ohio), stated on the floor:
“As to the question of citizenship I am willing to resolve all doubts in favor of a citizen of the United States. That Dr. Houard is a natural-born citizen of the United States there is not room for the shadow of a doubt. He was born of naturalized parents within the jurisdiction of the United States, and by the express words of the Constitution, as amended to-day, he is declared to all the world to be a citizen of the United States by birth.”

(The term “to-day”, as used by Bingham, means “to date”. Obviously, the Constitution had not been amended on April 25, 1872. And, since they knew he was, without a doubt, a natural born Citizen...he was, of course, considered a citizen of the U.S.)

The take away from this is that, while the debates and discussions went on for years in the people’s house regarding “citizenship” and the 14th Amendment, not a single Congressman disagreed with the primary architect’s multiple statements on who is a natural born Citizen per the Constitution. The United States House was in complete agreement at the time. NBC = born in sovereign U.S. territory, to 2 citizen parentS who owe allegiance to no other country.

There’s more here....http://www.freerepublic.com/~rxsid/


22 posted on 10/20/2011 3:24:40 AM PDT by abigailsmybaby ("To understan' the livin', you gotta commune wit' da dead." Minerva)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks Cincinatus’ Wife.


23 posted on 10/20/2011 3:27:42 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SatinDoll
There are a group within the U.S. that views our nation’s exceptionalism as a barrier to Global government. So little by little they are trying to breakdown those peices which prevent the nation from being dragged down to the level of the rest of the world.

Destroying the U.S.Constitution is a major piece of their plan. By enticing Republicans into drafting Rubio, who isn’t NBC, into running for the VP slot, those Globalists hope to break the Constitution down into confetti.

That's it, in a nutshell.

The communist movement has long had among its main goals in the USA to usurp, pervert, twist, bend, undermine, by whatever means available, the US Constitution, and thus incrementally render it useless as a blueprint for our ongoing civic structure.

Without such a blueprint, the USA can readily be converted into any third-world cesspool the invaders and traitors wish to have.

24 posted on 10/20/2011 3:28:37 AM PDT by meadsjn
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To: WildWeasel
Born on American soil? Yes? Eligible to be President.

Born on American soil? No? Not eligible to be President.

Nothing else matters.

Were this the case, then any enemy of the USA could visit the US, produce a child with any number of willing US women, raise that child to become president, then destroy the USA from within, using the powers of the highest office in the land.

This is precisely what is currently happening to the USA.

And this is precisely what the founders and framers warned against, and what they attempted to avoid with the Natural Born Citizen requirement for president.

25 posted on 10/20/2011 3:38:37 AM PDT by meadsjn
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To: SatinDoll
I don't think Marco Rubio or Bobby Jindal are either. Come to think of it... neither am I eligible to be President because of the natural born citizenship clause (my mother was born in Canada).

A horrific loss for the entire nation.

26 posted on 10/20/2011 3:40:00 AM PDT by Stepan12
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To: Scanian
There is no debate about where Marco was born (Miami in 1071)....

Holy cow! He was born in the year of the Battle of Manzikert? Well, I guess that puts to rest the question of whether the Spanish ever discovered the Fountain of Youth ..... evidently, they did!

Way to go, Marco! Now, where's the fountain?

27 posted on 10/20/2011 3:42:46 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: SatinDoll
RR’s parents were U.S.citizens. His grandparents do not matter.

Correctumondo! However, in my case my mother was born in Canada; ergo, I am not a natural born citizen under Article II; Sec. I; U.S. Const. I am not eligible for the presidency along with The Messiah. And the Messiah's continuing destructive tenure as president shows the wisdom of the Founding Fathers in sticking that clause in there.

28 posted on 10/20/2011 3:44:27 AM PDT by Stepan12
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To: lentulusgracchus

I should know better than to type while wearing a patch on my left eye.

It was 1971-—clearly.

Count on the spelling Nazis to show up to bash every slip.


29 posted on 10/20/2011 3:46:30 AM PDT by Scanian
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To: Stepan12
Ditto, my mother was still a UK subject when I was born (she didn't take out First Papers until I was six).

Sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose. If it's true of Obama, it's true of others. No NBC = no constitutional Article II eligibility.

Now CJ John Roberts needs to do his *****ing job and get Obozo out of there!

30 posted on 10/20/2011 3:46:49 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: Scanian
I should know better than to type while wearing a patch on my left eye.

Arrrrr, mitey!! lol

Count on the spelling Nazis to show up to bash every slip.

Do I get to wear a natty uniform and march funny? ;)

31 posted on 10/20/2011 3:50:37 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
The problem as I see it is this:
Marco is a Conservative Republican and a good one.
That disqualifies him with the RATS.
32 posted on 10/20/2011 4:02:18 AM PDT by DeaconRed (Cold War Veteran. . . . US Army Security Agency 1964-1968)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; P-Marlowe
There is reality and there is opinion. Reality is that current law DOES equate "native born" and "natural born." That means that there is no legal impediment to Rubio running for the presidency. He was born in this country to parents who had been in this country for years and had no intention of leaving. He can't even be claimed to be an "anchor baby" of convenience. Another point of those who question Obama's qualifications is that "native born" must be interpreted in the way that the Founders would have interpreted it. As a philosophical exercise, I am willing to do that. At the same time, I would insist that we must also use the citizenship law that was first in effect in the USA. If we use the founder-era definition of "natural born", then we must use the "founder era" citizenship law, and that is the "Naturalization Act of 1790." The details of that law are simple: 2 years residence with one in the state of residence, good character, and a pledge to any legal court to support the Constitution. Once residency requirement is met, the process, as I see it, could take no more than one minute.

Using that standard, Rubio's mother had already been naturalized prior to Rubio's birth. His father had been before the court a couple of times in his application for residency, and the Cuban refugee act automatically put him on a track for citizenship.

Had it simply been a matter of residency and pledge, then Rubio's dad had MORE THAN fulfilled that obligation.

33 posted on 10/20/2011 5:22:51 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True Supporters of our Troops PRAY for their VICTORY!)
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To: lentulusgracchus

The patch is due to ocular lymphoma. If you find that amusing, maybe you should think about getting your values checked.


34 posted on 10/20/2011 5:25:20 AM PDT by Scanian
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To: SatinDoll
RR’s parents were U.S.citizens. His grandparents do not matter.

This is true. But the parents were not citizens at the time of Marco Rubio's birth. That is where the issue lies. They were here legally, they subsequently became American citizens but it is not clear that this fits with the definition of Natural Born Citizen.

As I understand it, the idea of Natural Born Citizen as a qualification for the Presidency arose out of the founding fathers fear that someone with divided loyalties (U.S. vs. England for example) could be elected President. If your parents were British citizens resident in the U.S. there would be the possibility of such a thing happening. This would have been tragic had it happened in the early years of our country, years when the possibility of the English monarchy reestablishing its rule over our 'renegade' colony were quite real.

This is not a knock on Marco Rubio. He is certainly a rising star in the GOP and he would very likely make a good President. But the issue of his eligibility is real and cannot simply be tossed aside because we all like the guy.

35 posted on 10/20/2011 5:33:47 AM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: meadsjn
Were this the case, then any enemy of the USA could visit the US, produce a child with any number of willing US women, raise that child to become president, then destroy the USA from within, using the powers of the highest office in the land.

So it's just that easy, huh? Crank out a kid and 50 years later he will certainly be president and be able to destroy the U.S. Amazing that Hitler or Stalin didn't try it. </sarcasm>

36 posted on 10/20/2011 5:35:00 AM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: abigailsmybaby
...all other persons born within the Republic, of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty, are natural born citizens.

So you're saying that even after they fled Cuba for life in the U.S., Rubio's parents believed they owed their allegiance to Castro when Rubio was born? Has anyone told them?

37 posted on 10/20/2011 5:37:39 AM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: lentulusgracchus
Chief Justice Roberts obviously disagrees with you since he swore Obama into office. Don't expect SCOTUS, Congress or any state to take any action against Obama or Rubio to prevent him from running or holding office.
38 posted on 10/20/2011 5:48:55 AM PDT by ydoucare
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

The big laugh over this whole St. Pete Times issue is that this is their lead story, front page, with a banner headline. Did we read anything in the St. Pete Pravda about Obama’s little eligibility problem in their rag? Noooooo. What a bunch of friggin hypocrites. These idiots have no conscience.


39 posted on 10/20/2011 5:52:29 AM PDT by shortstop (It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful)
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To: Scanian
Marco was born (Miami in 1071)...

He and Helen Thomas were classmates.

40 posted on 10/20/2011 5:56:17 AM PDT by ErnBatavia (Obama Voters: Jose Baez wants YOU for his next jury pool.......)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

That definition of “Natural Born” could be interpreted to exclude anyone born by Cesarean section.


41 posted on 10/20/2011 6:16:47 AM PDT by mbynack (Retired USAF SMSgt)
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To: Scanian; All

“There is no debate about where Marco was born (Miami in 1071”—— wow he looks good for 940 years old :-p

FWIW, I agree with you 100% about the rest of your post. The people who define “natural born” as requiring American citizen parents are full of it- all it requires is that the candidate be born in the country. To hold otherwise would mean that Thomas Jefferson (English mother), Andrew Jackson (both his parents were Irish immigrants), James Buchanan (Irish father),Chester Arthur (Irish father), Woodrow Wilson (English mother) and Herbert Hoover (Canadian mother) would have been ineligible for the presidency, something I’ve NEVER heard seriously debated anywhere.


42 posted on 10/20/2011 6:41:29 AM PDT by wrhssaxensemble (We need an electable conservative in 2012!)
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To: SatinDoll

So true. Just because we let one cat get through the door does not mean that now we are going to repeat the mistake. Marco Rubio and Bobby Jindal both good guys are just not eligible. I am hoping both have the integrity not to try to run.


43 posted on 10/20/2011 6:43:37 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

Based on what? Natural Born Citizen and Native Born Citizen are two different things. The former DOES NOT require citizen parentage while the latter does. Both Jindal and Rubio are Natural Born (born in the US) but not Native Born (born to US citizens in the US). It is only the former that matters per Art. 1 Sec. 2 as it unequivocally uses the term “Natural Born Citizen” NOT “Native Born Citizen.”


44 posted on 10/20/2011 6:45:22 AM PDT by wrhssaxensemble (We need an electable conservative in 2012!)
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To: wrhssaxensemble

You have it exactly backwards.


45 posted on 10/20/2011 7:04:48 AM PDT by battletank
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To: battletank

And not by accident either ...


46 posted on 10/20/2011 7:06:45 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: SatinDoll

” Multiple Instances Of Historical Scholarship Conclusively Establish The Supreme Court’s Holding In Minor v. Happersett As Standing Precedent On Citizenship.”

As usual you are spot on Satin Doll. There are forces out there that actively spread the disinformation that “Natural Born Citizen” is, and was an undefined term used Founders, who didn’t know what it meant. Oh....uh huh. Can I buy your bridge?/s


47 posted on 10/20/2011 7:07:39 AM PDT by Forty-Niner (The barely bare, berry bear formerly known as..........Ursus Arctos Horribilis.)
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To: SoJoCo
So it's just that easy, huh? Crank out a kid and 50 years later he will certainly be president and be able to destroy the U.S. Amazing that Hitler or Stalin didn't try it.

I think it's amusing that this is the sort of thing that keeps birthers up at night.

Anyone hatching a plan to destroy the United States with their progeny 50 years down the line could just as easily become a citizen first, therefore making the child a natural born citizen under even the strictest definition.

48 posted on 10/20/2011 7:09:11 AM PDT by Kleon
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To: wrhssaxensemble

Are you what is passing for useful idiot from david axelfraud’s cadre now? You really do need to consider where you’re spewing that vomitous deceit, ax. Arthur’s father had not naturalized by the time Chester was born, and your other lies are why the founders wrote an exception clause into the Constitution. You stealth liars are disgusting.


49 posted on 10/20/2011 7:10:23 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: battletank
You have it exactly backwards.

lol
50 posted on 10/20/2011 7:12:17 AM PDT by TauntedTiger (Keep away from the fence!)
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