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A Night Spent in Limbo for a Dog Returned to Sender
The New York Times ^ | October 11th, 2011 | Vincent Mazzoli

Posted on 10/21/2011 3:06:09 AM PDT by KantianBurke

On Oct. 4, Jason Dubin drove to La Guardia Airport to pick up the newest member of his household. Six days after that first happy meeting, Mr. Dubin returned to La Guardia with that same member, a German shepherd named Emmi, and sent her on a Continental Airlines flight to Seattle with a one-way ticket.

“I just couldn’t control her anymore; it was just time to part ways,” said Mr. Dubin, who made the drive from his Port Jefferson home on Long Island as Emmi, who is 5, fidgeted and barked in the back seat.

Mr. Dubin had bought the 80-pound dog over the Internet for $7,500 from Kraftwerk K9, a company in Rochester, Wash., that breeds, trains and sells German shepherds.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: dog; dog4sale; germanshepard; germanshepherd; gsd; pound
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Nearly 8k for a dog? With that kind of money changing hands no wonder the backyard breeders here on FR are so absolutist. Must piss them off when a prospective buyer decides on getting their family pet from a -gasp- shelter.
1 posted on 10/21/2011 3:06:14 AM PDT by KantianBurke
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To: KantianBurke

The guy didn’t buy the dog for $8,000.

He bought the 30 lbs of cocaine that was inside the dog for $8,000.

He got a good deal.


2 posted on 10/21/2011 3:10:24 AM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Jonty30

bingo


3 posted on 10/21/2011 3:11:30 AM PDT by Doogle ((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: KantianBurke

This dog was misrepresented by seller. As an owner of 6 German Shepherds over the past 40 yrs or so I can tell you the behavior exhibited or described by the buyer is anything but normal for this breed.

The described behavior indicates a dog not properly socialized in the critical time period from birth to 6 months. Dogs left mostly to themselves will, over a period of time want nothing to do with anyone or any other animal.

This is sad because the animal will in all probability be euthanized barring some very patient individual assuming ownership and working long and hard to do what should have been done much earlier on in this animals life.


4 posted on 10/21/2011 3:18:16 AM PDT by 101voodoo
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To: 101voodoo

Cats are the same way. They imprint within the first 8 weeks.

I have one cat, because we rough-housed with it, loves being man-handled and can handle rough, for a cat.

We have another cat that we took in, but it was older than the 8 weeks. When we first got her, she didn’t like to be touched at all, instant slashing. Now, after two years, we can pet her for a couple of minutes before she let’s us know she’s had enough.


5 posted on 10/21/2011 3:37:16 AM PDT by Jonty30
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To: 101voodoo

You are right.

I’ve always made it a point to buy a very young puppy as my “life’s buddy” and to bond with it closely. Once a dog is obtained later in their young life, the bond can never be made as strong as that with a young puppy.

A “bonded” dog that is loved, cared for, and played with is a life enduring experience. They a social animals and never meant to be caged alone or to live alone.


6 posted on 10/21/2011 3:43:22 AM PDT by DH (Once the tainted finger of government touches anything the rot begins)
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To: KantianBurke; Joe 6-pack
“Why would Mr. Dubin abandon his dog like that?” Wayne Curry, the owner of Kraftwerk K9, said on Tuesday in a telephone interview. “The dog belonged to him. We had a purchase agreement that stated he had 72 hours to return the dog if he was unsatisfied, and that time period had elapsed.”

Sounds like an irresponsible breeder. 72 hours for a location on the other side of the continent? How can you even judge an animal in 72 hours?

Boycott this breeder.

7 posted on 10/21/2011 3:48:23 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: 101voodoo

Since the dog wasn’t a puppy rather a full grown dog and looking at the breeders page they are all from strong working lines not show lines and the older dogs they list shown recently are mostly SCH3. The price would lead me to believe it’s also a Shutzhund trained GSD. That’s a dog that’s NOT going to behave like a typical household pet and if the owner was not ready to own one and didn’t really understand what they were getting they were going to be very surprised.

I don’t buy the story the owner is telling especially in the way he responded and set the dog back. MY BS meter is really going off. I think the owners were very inexperienced owners and maybe this was the very first dog they’d owned and certainly the first dog of this nature (not a GSD but one who is a trained guard dog or a Shutzhund trained dog)

Any dog will try to become the leader of the pack (family) if the parent’s/owner doesn’t step up and become leader in the dogs eyes. They are still pack animals and packs need leaders. Some dogs are more dominant and assertive and take a stronger owner, That’s especially true of dogs trained as real protection dogs or Schutzhund trained dog. They have to be aggressive (not vicious), assertive, smart and have a lot of drive or they won’t be successful The owner has to recognize that and be the leader of the pack (as do all the humans in the family) and see that the dog gets work to do. If you aren’t capable of that your going to be a very unhappy owner and the dog is going to be unhappy and a wreck also.

Remember the guy who owned and wrote a book about a Lab named Marley (Marley and Me). All the problems with that dogs behavior were really the owners problems of a lack of pack leadership. When Marley passed away and the book was a runaway best seller his wife went out and bought a new Lab puppy. She wanted the best one that money could buy. So she went out and bought the puppy from a breeder who specialized in top hunting/working labs. This puppy gave them all kinds of problems including killing another of the families pets (a chicken, but I won’t hold that against the dog since both my Airedale and Cairn would do that in a heat beat). The problems were getting worse and more severe than the ones they had with Marley. They had to call in Ceaser Milan to straighten out the situation with the dog and them. Again the problem was them and their failure of leadership coupled with a dog with high drives that weren’t being met. Milan had to train the real problem in this mix and the problems went away.


8 posted on 10/21/2011 4:07:54 AM PDT by airedale
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To: KantianBurke

The shelters are full of good dogs; my last three were rescues and that’s all I’ll ever have going forward. I can’t see breeding so many more dogs when we have an oversupply like we have but vanity being vanity, I suppose there will always be a market.


9 posted on 10/21/2011 4:09:50 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing an idiot)
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To: KantianBurke

Oddly, $8k can be cheap. A good gun dog costs $600/mo to train and can take about two years to fully train. I’m going to send my next one for forced retrieve training because I might not do it right and ruin the dog.


10 posted on 10/21/2011 4:34:40 AM PDT by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
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To: KantianBurke
I strongly support getting dogs from the shelter. We got our puppy from a cousin of my wife's -- her husband found a pregnant dog abandoned in the forest. The mother is half-boxer and half-american staffordshire terrier and the father we suspect was a Bavarian Scenthound.

Our little puppy is adorable -- she's got the scenthound temperament but the boxer coat (black-brown) and long legs. She's obedient and never barks in the house.

And we paid nothing for her -- but we would pay all we had to get her again. Dogs from shelters are the way -- you save a dog who really needs a home.

11 posted on 10/21/2011 4:34:58 AM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: Jonty30

That describes my two cats to a tee. Although the skittish one is gradually becoming more socialized over a couple of years.


12 posted on 10/21/2011 4:35:51 AM PDT by Josa
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To: 101voodoo
I find that German shepherds need a lot of obedience training and socialization -- maybe more than other breeds (but I'm not knowledgeable on doggiedom!)

But why purchase a 5-year old dog? Doesn't it make more sense to get a puppy or even a 1-year old dog from a breeder?

13 posted on 10/21/2011 4:37:03 AM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: DH

I agree 100, NO 1000%!!


14 posted on 10/21/2011 4:40:16 AM PDT by 101voodoo
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To: AnAmericanMother; Titan Magroyne; Badeye; Shannon; SandRat; arbooz; potlatch; ...
WOOOF!

The Doggie Ping list is for FReepers who would like to be notified of threads relating to all things canid. If you would like to join the Doggie Ping Pack (or be unleashed from it), FReemail me.

15 posted on 10/21/2011 4:43:03 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Cronos
I find that German shepherds need a lot of obedience training and socialization

I think you can lump in any large breed that tends to be dominant, like rotties, pits, American Bulldogs, etc. They need to be put in their place and trained right, or they are a bad accident waiting to happen.

16 posted on 10/21/2011 5:04:01 AM PDT by Paradox (The rich SHOULD be paying more taxes, and they WOULD, if they could make more money.)
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To: DH

My wife and I have always had pure breds, but after we lost the last one, we decided to do a rescue. We found a half Jack Russell Terrorist / Half Poodle aged approx. 6 years. It only took about 3 months before “PJ” became a full member of the family and is solidly bonded with us. No more pure breds for us.


17 posted on 10/21/2011 5:07:20 AM PDT by 109ACS (If this be Treason, then make the most of it. Patrick Henry, May 1765)
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To: MontaniSemperLiberi

Exactly right. I have sent both my younger dogs to a pro for force fetch. I did my oldest dog myself and it didn’t “take” very well. On the other hand, she was 5 y.o. when she started retrieving, so we started late.
Pound pups are fine for a pet (although there are very real risks with temperament problems and disease). But if you are going to be working your dog, you’re better off with a well bred purebred from a reputable breeder.


18 posted on 10/21/2011 5:14:45 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: airedale

Did you ever hit the nail on the head! That book made me so mad . . . and then they went and made the SAME mistake all over again. A high drive field Lab is not a suitable family pet, unless you have some experience with that type. My middle girl (aka Psycho Ruby) is Marley squared, on steroids. She is a completely awesome field dog - marks like a machine, handles like a Ferrari - but she is always on the ragged edge and is only now starting to perform up to her potential at 5. Marley’s owners would have dumped her by the side of the road.


19 posted on 10/21/2011 5:22:47 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: MontaniSemperLiberi

If you can do it, try a George Hickox class. I did a 3 day private lesson with him earlier this year and a 4 day group class with him the previous year with my GSP and he is fantastic.


20 posted on 10/21/2011 6:00:44 AM PDT by Roos_Girl (The world is full of educated derelicts. - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: KantianBurke

Great folks here in Kennesaw (Atlanta). We got our dogs from them.

http://www.mostlymutts.org/animals


21 posted on 10/21/2011 6:12:33 AM PDT by Crawdad
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To: Paradox

though, I know a guy who has a German shepherd — very well trained and the guy takes a real interest in his dog. He told me he once had a rottwieler who was devoted to his wife and daughter but would attack HIM!


22 posted on 10/21/2011 6:18:12 AM PDT by Cronos (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2787101/posts?page=58#58)
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To: KantianBurke; USMCWife6869; Indy Pendance; Still German Shepherd; dervish; Kozak; Joe 6-pack; ...
Very interesting, a snapshot into breeders/trainers in the "German" world and the whole "long-distance transport" mindset.

This is not raising my opinion of Kraftwerk, of whom I am sure many of you are aware as a big-shot kennel.

GERMAN SHEPHERD PING LIST

Flora Berkemeyer

This is a low-volume list………so don’t worry!

(Please Freep-mail me if you’d like to be on or off the list.)

23 posted on 10/21/2011 6:24:58 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: AnAmericanMother

I hated that book/movie (no, I never bothered - I don’t need to to know what it’s about the way people went on about it) too - because it glorified bad behavior.

I am so sick of bratty dogs being made out as “cute” and “lovable” in public such as pop culture. We’ve had less destructive dogs than that and wouldn’t put up with it, much less just sigh, toss up the hands and say, “awww, isn’t dat kwute”. It isn’t funny or sweet.


24 posted on 10/21/2011 6:38:26 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: KantianBurke

Backyard breeders? Kraftwerk is hardly what they themselves would dismissively describe as “BYBs”: https://kraftwerkk9.com/

They are well known in the Euro/Schutzhund world.

7K for an older dog is not unusual, especially if that dog was highly bred and trained.

That said, I am not happy about Kraftwerk’s behavior - nor about most “reputable” breeders. Not that the customer was perfect - I don’t know the whole story either way. But most people will willingly go get the dog who’s left in a precarious situation just because they don’t want it “abandoned”, regardless of the BS “agreement” (paper or word?).

These “reputable” people have gotten too big for their britches in the last 20 years, and personally I think next time I will be going back to the local newspapers and “BYBs” like we did before I knew about dog shows. As long as *I* think it’s a pure GS and a good temperament and health, who really cares?


25 posted on 10/21/2011 6:45:28 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: Jonty30

Oh come on.


26 posted on 10/21/2011 6:51:44 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: 109ACS

No more pure breds for us.


Certain breeds of dogs have certain inbred temperaments. Mutts and pure breeds do not necessarily matter when you bond with a puppy unless it is of one of the temperamental breeds.

Through my life I’ve had mutts and registered dogs and noticed no differences in any when it came to their intelligence and mannerisms. I also got them when they were just taken from their mother. That makes a huge difference.

By the way, I’ve got a super-cute mini-dachshund and she is the love of my life!


27 posted on 10/21/2011 6:55:00 AM PDT by DH (Once the tainted finger of government touches anything the rot begins)
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To: muir_redwoods

Your opinion.

As DH said, it is better to wisely pick out and mold a puppy. Purebred better because it’s more predictable.

The best dog I ever knew of - ever, including 2nd-hand stories from others both private and public - I had the privilege to personally own and she was a purebred from a famous show handler we got at 7 wks. We’d had older mutts from the pound before. I’ve had a few other puppy purebreds (or claimed) from different type breeders. The best was easily the handler’s puppy, so far. Granted there were other issues involved - our expertise and seriousness, etc - but my experience: the best was from a breeder.

It’s not “vanity” - it’s wanting something somewhat predictable including personal history. Living animals that can kill you are not something to toy with.


28 posted on 10/21/2011 6:59:44 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

People often approach me (from a safe distance) when I’m out walking my 3 shepherds. “Your dogs are so beautiful, I think it would be COOL to have a German Shepherd”.

Can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to tell folks - it’s not COOL, it’s WORK (very rewarding work, but it’s a major responsibility ). These dogs require daily training and exercise, and most people just don’t have the time or patience to be good GSD owners, and often don’t realize what they’re getting into when they acquire one. Training never stops.

Mine are all rescues and came with alot of “baggage”. Older GSDs can have trouble adjusting to new environments - each time we brought one home, it took several weeks for them just to get used to being in our “pack” - the guy who bought Emmi didn’t give her time and probably had unrealistic expectations.


29 posted on 10/21/2011 7:04:52 AM PDT by LadyBuck (In the immortal words of Jean Paul Sartre, 'Au revoir, gopher')
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To: afraidfortherepublic

>Boycott this breeder.<

Anyone with the smallest clue already does.


30 posted on 10/21/2011 7:07:46 AM PDT by Darnright ("I don't trust liberals, I trust conservatives." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca)
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To: DH; AnAmericanMother

>Certain breeds of dogs have certain inbred temperaments.<

Why yes, they do. Dog breeds have evolved because throughout history human beings have molded Man’s Best Friend to do different jobs and to play different roles. As a rule these traits are not interchangeable. For example you cannot take a Komondor, a breed bred to guard livestock, and easily hunt ducks with it.

As AnAmericanMother noted upthread, a Labrador can either be a great pet and family companion, or a “Marley” type canine wrecking crew. In knowledgeable hands, the competition field bred dog can and does make one heck of a dog. In a typical, “I just want a pet” home, the dog will be a nightmare for its people.

For so many people, dogs only have one role; that of the placid pet who enjoys a stroll around the block, then who plops down by the fireplace with the family.

Other people fall in love with a given breed of dog for the combination of traits that make superb performance dogs. These folks compete in a wide range of sports such as field trials, schutzhund, agility, flyball, obedience and countless others. They cherish the traits that would drive average suburban pet owners crazy, but in doing so they commit to working these dogs constantly to burn off energy and by perfecting the human/dog bond so that both species understand the other brilliantly.

For so many people, a mixed breed dog fits their needs perfectly. Some folks want a certain breed because they grew up with it. For these folks, especially if they wish to give a homeless pooch a 2nd chance, adoption is the perfect route. For the individual who chooses to compete with his canine friend, or who needs a certain set of breed traits for a job (like livestock protection, for example), a carefully bred purebred from a responsible, careful breeder will fit the bill.


31 posted on 10/21/2011 7:45:32 AM PDT by Darnright ("I don't trust liberals, I trust conservatives." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca)
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To: Darnright

Do you have experience with them? That’s where I got my GSD as a puppy - he’s almost 9. Has a good temperament and high prey drive - I thought I might do Schutzhund training with him but he has thunder anxiety and would never pass the firearms portion, LOL.
He does have a small hump on his mid-spine which would have eliminated him from ever being shown, which he came with and I was not told about.


32 posted on 10/21/2011 8:53:03 AM PDT by GnuHere
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To: GnuHere

I have a 6 year old German bred GSD. Her pedigree is mostly dogs who have sheep tending titles as opposed to schutzhund. While she loves to learn and loves training, she’s nowhere near as driven or as intense as the dog in this story. She’s very good at picking up on a behavior quickly, and she is fast and accurate. She would not do well at all with harsh corrections. She passed her ATTS temperament test of course, although one of the testers who has a long career with working GSD’s told me afterward she was far too soft for him. It’s ok, she lives with me and I think she’s a great dog. I didn’t buy her to breed, btw.

I respect folks that train working GSD’s, but my interest is more in obedience, tracking and rally.


33 posted on 10/21/2011 9:41:33 AM PDT by Darnright ("I don't trust liberals, I trust conservatives." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca)
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To: the OlLine Rebel; AnAmericanMother

Add me to the list of folks who hated that movie — Marley and Me. In fact, I thought the whole screenplay was just an excuse to have a lot of bikini clad women stroll across the screen.

I was suckered into taking my daughter, son in law, and 3 of my grandchildren to see it in NY at Christmas a couple of years ago. Cost me a bundle, and we all hated it. We especially thought it was inappropriate for children (and out oldest “child” that day was 15.)


34 posted on 10/21/2011 9:50:21 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: the OlLine Rebel; AnAmericanMother

Add me to the list of folks who hated that movie — Marley and Me. In fact, I thought the whole screenplay was just an excuse to have a lot of bikini clad women stroll across the screen.

I was suckered into taking my daughter, son in law, and 3 of my grandchildren to see it in NY at Christmas a couple of years ago. Cost me a bundle, and we all hated it. We especially thought it was inappropriate for children (and out oldest “child” that day was 15.)


35 posted on 10/21/2011 9:50:21 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: the OlLine Rebel; AnAmericanMother

Add me to the list of folks who hated that movie — Marley and Me. In fact, I thought the whole screenplay was just an excuse to have a lot of bikini clad women stroll across the screen.

I was suckered into taking my daughter, son in law, and 3 of my grandchildren to see it in NY at Christmas a couple of years ago. Cost me a bundle, and we all hated it. We especially thought it was inappropriate for children (and out oldest “child” that day was 15.)


36 posted on 10/21/2011 9:50:27 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Jonty30; Doogle

You two are nuts, imho..


37 posted on 10/21/2011 11:48:21 AM PDT by Bradís Gramma (Mr B has a new cousin on the way!)
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To: AnAmericanMother

I don’t hunt and both are from show lines rather than hunting lines. Neither have the drive to be a great hunting dog or for that matter a great obedience/protection dog, but they make great family dogs which is what I wanted. The Airedale is a great trail dog. He stays close and if ahead of me and we come to a fork in the trail I can point to the trail I want to go on and he automatically takes it. While he doesn’t have a really high drive like your Psycho Ruby if the right prey presents itself he will go after it. Last time it was a bobcat. That was scary but he treed it and lost interest. (as I said his prey drive isn’t that high). I was lucky even though he’s 90 pounds I’d have put my money on the bobcat even though he looked to weigh about 25-30 pounds. I’d have had to pack the wounded dog out of the mountains to a vet and that wouldn’t have been fun. My first Airedale had much higher drive. While she wasn’t out of control or anything you she could be a handful and required you to be the leader at all times. If you weren’t she’d step in and try to take leadership (nothing really overtly aggressive but if you recognize dog behavior you knew what she was doing.)

If I were a hunter I’d have gotten my Airedale from one of the breeders who specialize in hunting Airedales. The ones I know who selling Airedales bred for hunting won’t even sell you a puppy unless they are satisfied you can handle what you’re getting and can work the dog.

I live in Southern California and just found a neat place to take the dogs which as a hunter you’d love. The Prado Dam Dog Park in Chino. It’s 538 acres of upland hunting fields and about 30 duck ponds. All maintained for the purposes of training your hunting dogs. They even sell live birds for your dogs to point at (had quail last time I was there)and you can use weapons to train the dogs for the sound of firearms (mostly use blanks except under very controlled conditions.). The Airedale and Cairn had a ball. Only problem I had is the Airedale who has long fur right now came home covered in clover burrs and some smaller stickers. Nothing stuck to the Cairn who had just been stripped. With a lab the only place you’d have a problem is between the pads, but where ever you are you have to deal with that as well.

I recommend two books to people who are getting a new dog or seem to have some problems in handling their dogs. The first is: The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell. The other is On Talking Terms with Dogs:Calming Signals by Turid Rugaas. Both are reading by any dog owner but they really help new owners or people who just don’t understand their dogs. Turid’s website btw: http://www.canis.no/rugaas/ The Q&A section is worth looking at.


38 posted on 10/21/2011 12:34:36 PM PDT by airedale
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To: 109ACS

The really nice thing about mixed breeds is that their negative behaviours of their lineage is often minimized.


39 posted on 10/21/2011 1:32:49 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: the OlLine Rebel

I am wondering if the buyer ever had German Shepherds before. They are not for a first time dog owner.


40 posted on 10/21/2011 1:43:23 PM PDT by chrisinoc
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To: AnAmericanMother

I don’t think you can blame naïve dog owners, because they don’t know what it means to get a working dog.

The fault lies with the breeder, because should know that only certain people know how to adequately handle such dogs.


41 posted on 10/21/2011 2:02:45 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Roos_Girl

Frankly I don’t trust myself to do it even after a good class. My choice is Brittanies and they are easy to break.


42 posted on 10/21/2011 2:24:21 PM PDT by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
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To: Jonty30

No; like all living individuals, it’s a crap shoot.

The best way to avoid problems is to start out right - looking at how the dog behaves as is and being serious about it rather than feeling sorry, or thinking it’s cute.


43 posted on 10/21/2011 2:45:27 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: chrisinoc

If you don’t count the cruddy mutts my parents tried from the pound whom I don’t remember (except Wagner, also didn’t last long), my 1st dog was a German Shepherd as a 9yo. “BYB” - farm puppy - a good dog, albeit with a “long” story.

(BTW - I think I wanted a GS because I was awed by the police demo given for our elementary school. I thought “wow what dogs!” - and it’s worked out fine. Not that you can’t be wise about what you do.)


44 posted on 10/21/2011 2:49:45 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

I agree.

A dog is not human and cannot be treated as human, for its sake.


45 posted on 10/21/2011 3:01:05 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: MontaniSemperLiberi

Well, I personally hate the thought of sending my dog away for someone else to train (and treat how I might disagree with) and since I’m not competing for high stakes money and just out for the pleasure of seeing my dogs do what they were bred for I would take the chance of having a dog that doesn’t retrieve to hand. But George agreed that with my male GSP that he didn’t think I’d need to do a force retrieve with him since he’s a natural retriever. My two other girls, not so much, but I can live with that. :)

I do think you’d be pleased with what you’d learn from George though. Good luck!


46 posted on 10/21/2011 3:04:27 PM PDT by Roos_Girl (The world is full of educated derelicts. - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: chrisinoc

More than likely that’s the case...


47 posted on 10/21/2011 3:42:02 PM PDT by Bradís Gramma (Mr B has a new cousin on the way!)
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To: Roos_Girl

I’m sure he’s a fine trainer. It’s a combination of me and the dog that worries me. A Brittany is a “combination” breed and tends to be very “biddable” (trainable) but sensitive and high strung. It doesn’t range as far as a GSD or retrieve as naturally as a Labrador. Instead it does well at both and needs training to do all of it right. If they are trained incorrectly, it hurts the dog as they become unsure of themselves as they can tell from the owner “that they aren’t doing it quite right”. They are so attentive to training that they react to small mistakes and keep that reaction for a while.

“Forced Retrieve” is hardcore training, especially for a dog that is sensitive. http://www.gundogsonline.com/Article/the-forced-retrieve-gun-dog-Page1.htm Again, I’d rather have someone more experienced do it.


48 posted on 10/21/2011 4:29:24 PM PDT by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
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To: MontaniSemperLiberi

GSP not GSD


49 posted on 10/21/2011 4:32:24 PM PDT by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
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To: MontaniSemperLiberi

Did you send me the link because that’s the trainer I’m talking about or did you not realize?

That’s why I love my Shorthairs. Their temperaments are so stable it’s really hard to screw them up, even when I’m the one doing the training. :)


50 posted on 10/21/2011 4:36:23 PM PDT by Roos_Girl (The world is full of educated derelicts. - Calvin Coolidge)
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