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Pope Benedict Calls For “Central World Bank” … Only He Didn’t. Here’s Why.
CatholicVote.org ^ | 10/24/2011 | Thomas Peters

Posted on 10/24/2011 10:01:03 AM PDT by KOZ.

In a scenario which will surely strike some as deja vu, the liberal jesuit Fr. Tom Reese previewed the contents of the document last week, in much the same way that the liberal jesuit Fr. Charles Curran “previewed” Humanae Vitae for the mainstream media before the document was actually released (the pope overruled Fr. Curran’s claims that the Church would endorse contraception — but the media had already made up its mind and few bothered to actually read what the pope had to say).

Here’s Fr. Reese on MSNBC “explaining” the news:

Notice that Fr. Reese does NOT correct the news anchor that this document comes from a vatican congregation — not the pope! Fr. Reese seems perfectly happy to help the mainstream media fundamentally misunderstand the authority of teaching this document enjoys. He claims that the pope has “more in common with the people at occupy wallstreet” than the tea party, even though he has to immediately walk back that claim when it is pointed out to him how violent (and anti-Catholic!) the Occupy Rome demonstrations were (as I blogged about last week). I think it’s no surprise that Fr. Reese spends so much time talking about the 60′s — that’s still his cultural frame of reference.

Rather than get into the nitty-gritty of the 18-page document (which I may do at a later point), let me focus on the most important point: framing. Here’s how Cardinal Turkson, President of the Congregation for Justice and Peace, and Bishop Toso, the secretary, explained how the document should be received and read (underlining mine):

>> …It is in this spirit of discernment that the Holy See, with the note of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, wishes to make a contribution which might be useful to the deliberations of the G-20 meeting”.

>> Bishop Toso explained that the aim of the note is “suggest possible paths to follow, in line with the most recent social Magisterium, for the implementation of financial and monetary policies…”

>> The Church does not wish to enter into the technical issues behind the current economic crisis, but remains within the ambit of her religious and ethical functions…

I have nothing to immediately add to that, because the very authors of the document make clear how it should be evaluated: namely, as a “contribution” (as opposed to a mandate), as a “possible path” (as opposed to a moral proscription), in line with the Magisterium’s social teaching (as opposed to introducing a new teaching), without getting into the technical issues (because the Church is an expert in humanity, not economics) while fully staying within the Church’s religious and ethical functions.

Liberal Catholic routinely (and in this case) try to read the Church’s social teaching as dogmatic while choosing to view the Church’s moral and religious teaching as optional. In fact, the Church herself is always careful to make clear that her moral and religious teaching is dogmatic and binding while her social teaching –and particularly her economic teaching– is exhortative and prudential.

With those extremely important guidelines in mind, we can more fruitfully read the text.

That said, I am absolutely sure the media cycle for the coming days and weeks will totally miss all these key points and distill this document down to misleading statements such as “Pope Benedict Endorses Central World Bank.” But as I explain above, he didn’t.

Fr. Reese and his liberal Catholic friends would be better served acting as messengers of the Church’s teaching as opposed to creators of it.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: catholic; pope; worldbank
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Before many on this forum slam the Church for what the Pope apparently calls for, I say we get the facts straight.
1 posted on 10/24/2011 10:01:06 AM PDT by KOZ.
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To: KOZ.

I agree. That said, the Catholic Church needs to work on it’s own internal problems before telling the world anything. More specifically, they need to start excommunicating Catholic politicians who openly defy the church’s positions on abortion, and clean house with priests who are abusing children. But then as with most organized religions, the Catholic Church looks the other way when it benefits them either financially or with being able to curry favor with the powerful. The Mormons are doing the same thing with the likes of Harry Reid. Harry directly contradicts Mormon theology nearly every time he opens his mouth!


2 posted on 10/24/2011 10:07:33 AM PDT by vette6387 (Enough Already!)
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To: KOZ.

Thanks for posting this.

Unfortunately, if you scroll down the forum, many have seized this opportunity to Catholic-bash already, including many who identify themselves as “catholics”. Dummies.


3 posted on 10/24/2011 10:15:37 AM PDT by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: vette6387

The church doesn’t ‘tell the world’ anything.

that was an idiotic rant.


4 posted on 10/24/2011 10:15:56 AM PDT by KOZ.
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To: KOZ.

I don’t believe that most of the leaders of the Catholic church care about democracy, a constitutional republic, or even logic when it comes to policy. They operate out of pie in the sky fantasy and emotion, rather than a realistic look at what actually works and what doesn’t. I think the Catholic church would be happy if it ruled by decree and made all the decisions for the masses.

When the Catholic church gets its far left marxist clergy under control, stops encouraging illegal aliens to break the law and stay in the US, quits interfering in US foreign policy, punishes and excommunicates its pedophile priests and cracks down on all the homo’s they seem to encourage to be priests, maybe I will pay attention to what the Catholic church has to say - until then, they should stick to trying to save souls and shut up when it comes to politics.


5 posted on 10/24/2011 10:21:56 AM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: KOZ.

Thank you for this post.


6 posted on 10/24/2011 10:22:34 AM PDT by Campion ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies when they become fashions." -- GKC)
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To: KOZ.

” . . . a home for the fowls of the air.”

Reminded me about the mustard seed parable, and the contradiction Jesus placed within it at the end. No mustard seed plant can sustain a nest, but that’s precisely what He suggested would happen - that His church would someday provide a home for those devoted to destroying it.


7 posted on 10/24/2011 10:27:20 AM PDT by RinaseaofDs (Does beheading qualify as 'breaking my back', in the Jeffersonian sense of the expression?)
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To: KOZ.
Before many on this forum slam the Church for what the Pope apparently calls for, I say we get the facts straight.

But .... but ....

How can we possibly have a properly vitriolic Hate-the-Church fest if we get the facts straight?

8 posted on 10/24/2011 10:27:38 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: KOZ.

I want to know why Drudge wants to stir up dissension on the right by bannering “Pope says...” when it is eminently clear his Reuters source point to a Vatican office rather than the Holy Father.


9 posted on 10/24/2011 10:30:24 AM PDT by papertyger (What has islam ever accomplished that treacherous, opportunistic, brutality couldn't do on its own?)
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To: vette6387

And I think you need to know a lot more before offering advice to the Catholic Church, nOOb.


10 posted on 10/24/2011 10:33:01 AM PDT by papertyger (What has islam ever accomplished that treacherous, opportunistic, brutality couldn't do on its own?)
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To: Longbow1969

Your “attention” is not required by the Catholic Church, nor anyone else that hasn’t the time for “he can’t even spell ‘potato’” analysis....


11 posted on 10/24/2011 10:40:13 AM PDT by papertyger (What has islam ever accomplished that treacherous, opportunistic, brutality couldn't do on its own?)
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To: ArrogantBustard
>> Hate-the-Church fest

LOL, exactly

The sad thing is, so far they're forgetting to bring up the inquisition, crusades, Pope Joan, Galileo, indulgences etc etc etc

Amateurs.

12 posted on 10/24/2011 10:40:39 AM PDT by KOZ.
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To: papertyger

Good question. I’d hope he knows better.


13 posted on 10/24/2011 10:45:23 AM PDT by KOZ.
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To: KOZ.
This is the parsing of words in the extreme.

The Council on Justice and Peace is authoritative for the Vatican and Church unless reined in by the Pope.

Yes, the Catholic Church is at least socialist and they do seek to enter the political debate.

They do not support a society with winners and losers and in my book that means they do not support human liberty.

14 posted on 10/24/2011 10:47:43 AM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Mariner

Are you a Bible Christian?


15 posted on 10/24/2011 10:52:23 AM PDT by papertyger (What has islam ever accomplished that treacherous, opportunistic, brutality couldn't do on its own?)
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To: KOZ.

that’s what having a 13th Century media strategy will getcha...


16 posted on 10/24/2011 10:58:39 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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If it comes from the mouth of a Jesuit it’s probably best to assume it’s a lie and go from there.


17 posted on 10/24/2011 11:05:01 AM PDT by Hayride
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To: Longbow1969
When the Catholic church gets its far left marxist clergy under control, stops encouraging illegal aliens to break the law and stay in the US, quits interfering in US foreign policy, punishes and excommunicates its pedophile priests and cracks down on all the homo’s they seem to encourage to be priests, maybe I will pay attention to what the Catholic church has to say - until then, they should stick to trying to save souls and shut up when it comes to politics.

BINGO!!!!

18 posted on 10/24/2011 11:06:59 AM PDT by JohnG45
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To: Mariner
The Council on Justice and Peace is authoritative for the Vatican and Church unless reined in by the Pope.

No it isn't.

J&P has the role of 'promoting justice and peace in the world, in the light of the Gospel and of the social teaching of the Church'. It has no authority - as that word is understood in the Church - because the Church claims no authority in such matters.

Pope John 23rd said that capitalism was the best way man had discovered to create wealth. He was right, but even he wasn't seen as pronouncing authoritatively for the whole Church. It just doesn't work like that.

The Church couldn't *authoritatively* declare Hayek right and Keynes wrong, or vice versa - that would mean going beyond its ambit.

What we have here is some lefty screed from a loser committee in J&P. Not the voice of the Church.

Hope this was helpful.

19 posted on 10/24/2011 11:10:16 AM PDT by agere_contra ("Debt is the foundation of destruction" : Sarah Palin.)
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To: KOZ.

This isn’t the Pope talking but still it this is an instruction WITHIN the Vatican that is within orthodox Vatican thought, No? I mean they aren’t a bunchy of renegades are they?

It is fair to wonder how influential this point of view is within the Vatican. And it is fair to wonder what are the odds the next Pope (may Benedict live long and health) will agree with this faction.


20 posted on 10/24/2011 11:24:03 AM PDT by DManA
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To: KOZ.

What facts do we need to get straight?

Obviously the Vatican apparatus isn’t a huge leftist think tank living off of the tithes of the faithful-so what ‘facts’ are you talking about.


21 posted on 10/24/2011 11:32:24 AM PDT by Rippin
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To: DManA
This isn’t the Pope talking but still it this is an instruction WITHIN the Vatican that is within orthodox Vatican thought, No? I mean they aren’t a bunchy of renegades are they?

Orthodox thought doesn't encompass economics in an authoritative way. This is not an instruction. Like the man said, it's an exhortation. They do it all the time.

The Vatican is not a corporation. It's a College of Cardinals, which is a lot like any other college or university—which institutions the Church invented, by the way. Cardinals are free to talk and make pronouncements, some of them stupid—such as virtually anything that comes out of Justice and Peace.

The only teachings that are instructive or normative or dogmatic are those that the Church identifies as such. They're all on faith and morals, not politics or econ, and there are no surprises. It's funny. Non-Catholics and fallen-away Catholics are scandalized by two things: the Church's diversity of opinion on secular matters, and the Church's unanimity on faith and morals. Most of them seem to wish it were the other way around.

If Justice and Peace comes out tomorrow morning and says the Trinity doesn't really describe God, their offices will be closed that afternoon, pending a long inquiry and an invitation to the Cardinal in question to spend the rest of his life in quiet contemplation.

22 posted on 10/24/2011 11:54:52 AM PDT by SamuraiScot
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To: SamuraiScot

Is there any other Vatican institution that is advising world leaders that a single world currency would be a terrible idea?

That’s a real question. Are there institutions within the Vatican that argue free market principles? Why is it we only hear from the Marxists?


23 posted on 10/24/2011 12:02:10 PM PDT by DManA
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To: SamuraiScot
The Vatican is not a corporation.

LOL.

No, "the Vatican" is not "a" corporation.

The RCC, however, is THE corporation.

The ONLY corporation.

And it has... a LOT of... subsidiaries... LOL...

Orthodox thought doesn't encompass economics in an authoritative way.

Including the mega-billions in the Vatican Bank and its controlling links with The City and Wall Street, which should not in any way be considered "authoritative."

LOL.

24 posted on 10/24/2011 12:06:17 PM PDT by Talisker (History will show the Illuminati won the ultimate Darwin Award.)
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To: SamuraiScot

Don’t look now but Drudge has this story right under a big picture of Benedict.


25 posted on 10/24/2011 12:07:13 PM PDT by DManA
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To: SamuraiScot

Is this the organization we are talking about?

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/justpeace/documents/rc_pc_justpeace_pro_20011004_en.html

Reading this I think it is completely fair to say they speak for the Vatican on these matters. They were given this authority by two Popes.


26 posted on 10/24/2011 12:15:19 PM PDT by DManA
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To: papertyger

Makes me {{{shutter}}} when you call the pope, holy father.

Do you really believe the pope is holy?

Seriously, I’m not trying to stir up trouble.

I’m just curious.


27 posted on 10/24/2011 12:17:31 PM PDT by servantboy777
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To: KOZ.

Some wit realized that this was ridiculous early on, so decided to rewrite the headline as:

VATICAN CALLS FOR ‘CENTRAL WORLD RELIGION’...


28 posted on 10/24/2011 12:22:59 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: servantboy777

Why would you “shutter” (sic), haven’t you ever studied anything about Catholic faith and practice?

As for your question, Yes, I believe the Pope is holy... Of course, asking if someone is “holy” is as open a question as asking is someone “right.”

Turning the Bible into a legal document ain’t the only game in town, you know....


29 posted on 10/24/2011 12:32:48 PM PDT by papertyger (What has islam ever accomplished that treacherous, opportunistic, brutality couldn't do on its own?)
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To: KOZ.

bttt


30 posted on 10/24/2011 12:42:56 PM PDT by Matchett-PI (Obamageddon, Barackalypse Now! Bam is "Debt Man Walking" in 2012 - Rush Limbaugh)
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To: papertyger
>>Turning the Bible into a legal document ain’t the only game in town, you know.<<

Not sure what you mean by this comment.

I've studied a little, not extensive. Is this in extra-biblical writings such as the Apocrypha <- did I spell that correctly.

I've always been taught that no one is holy except the Lord.

Holy Holy Holy is the Lord God Almighty. Referring to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Wouldn't this deify the pope by referring to him as holy?

Again, not challenging you, just earnestly curious of the biblical context.

I'm also stunned that the Vatican would call for a world body of anything, seeing as the connotation drums end times prophecy talk.

Do you have an opinion in regards to this?

31 posted on 10/24/2011 12:45:08 PM PDT by servantboy777
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To: KOZ.
It's not the Pope or even the Church I fear, it's the creation of any world govrning body and the hand that controlls it.

Was it Rothschild who said " Give me (control of) the banks and the courts and I could rule the world"

World government(UN)World courts and next world banks.

Just need "The Hand" now to rule it(Anti-Christ anyone?)
32 posted on 10/24/2011 12:48:26 PM PDT by RedMonqey (A politician's integrity is usually only as strong as his poll numbers.)
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To: KOZ.

It’s the liberal media doing what it does, again.

http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=21986

Liberal Charles Curran “previewed” Humanae Vitae and the libs claimed the Pope wants a central world bank. He doesn’t. It was a typical misstatement by the libs.

Many years ago, our local paper claimed that the Pope said that a widow could not remarry. Weeks later, and I would suspect after many complaints, the paper corrected their statement to just what the Pope actually said, which was that since marriage forms sexual appetites, a widow who remains chaste after losing her husband, receives special blessings. And, yes, of course she can remarry.

The liberal media never stops attacking the Catholic church.


33 posted on 10/24/2011 1:28:04 PM PDT by kitkat (Obama, rope and chains)
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To: servantboy777
I absolutely respect your curiousity and intend to answer you in the spirit of equanimity you've already brought with your post.

Nevertheless, I do tend to the acerbic by nature and ask you to bear with me if I should ruffle your sensibilities.

I've always been taught that no one is holy except the Lord.

I understand. This is a fairly standard non-Catholic criticism of Catholics, and bear in mind i also understand you are not critizing per se, at this point.

This teaching comes from a legalistic reading of Luke 18:19 :
And Jesus said to him, Why call you me good? none is good, save one, that is, God

Now keep in mind, the same people who teach this as a criticism of Catholicism, and add Matthew 23:9 for good measure...(And call no man your father on the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven) to criticize the Catholic tradition of giving priests the title "Father," don't seem to have any problem with Paul calling men holy in many places such as Titus 1:8 and 1Thes 5:27, nor do they grieve over NT writers repeatedly referring to Abraham as father all through the NT, not the least of which are the 4 or 5 examples just in Romans 4.

In summation, what I am telling you is those who have taught you, whether explicitly or implicitly, are looking for "problems to have" to justify their rejection of the Church that Jesus commissioned so long ago.

This is the import of my statement that had you wondering at the beginning of your post. Does a narrow reading of Scripture to bring accusation against the piety of another strike you as "grace" or "legalism?"

34 posted on 10/24/2011 5:02:22 PM PDT by papertyger (What has islam ever accomplished that treacherous, opportunistic, brutality couldn't do on its own?)
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To: DManA; Talisker
Reading this I think it is completely fair to say they speak for the Vatican on these matters. They were given this authority by two Popes.

It may be fair. It's just not accurate. Nobody speaks for the Vatican on these matters any more than anyone else. Two Cardinals can (and do) hold press conferences on different days promoting opposite points of view.

Ironically, you haven't gotten your mind around the fact that, when you go outside of faith and morals, the Vatican is more of a philosophical free-for-all than any organization or corporation we Americans are used to. They don't speak for the Vatican on these subjects; they are allowed to speak by the Vatican. The Vatican doesn't back up what they say, or deride it. (You or I would deride it.)

You may find it infuriating. I think Justice & Peace is a waste of oxygen. But it is talk that is not binding on anyone with respect to his salvation. Just opinions. I agree that a lot of Marxist assumptions come out of these commissions, but that's Europe for you. Younger priests are much more conservative these days.

The story that ran on Neuters was what they wish it was. They do this sort of thing all the time. Drudge knows a good headline when he sees it, but the Pope said no such thing; you'll see more about that in the next day or two.

Talisker:

Including the mega-billions in the Vatican Bank and its controlling links with The City and Wall Street, which should not in any way be considered "authoritative."

Don't know what you're smokin', dude, but it's too strong.

35 posted on 10/24/2011 5:17:26 PM PDT by SamuraiScot
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To: KOZ.

I was just telling my husband there must be another side, so I visited FR, and sure enough there is.

Thank you!


36 posted on 10/24/2011 6:27:44 PM PDT by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: papertyger

Yes, Drudge needs to get his facts straight. Maybe we should all send him the true story, and let him know it’s on FR, by giving him the FR link to this thread.

Drudge is good, by makes mistakes, too.


37 posted on 10/24/2011 6:31:26 PM PDT by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: Longbow1969

All religions have individuals, who are mistaken, or wrong, on their opinions, but these mistakes/wrongs are not dogma.

No matter what the sin is, if the sinner is truly sorry for their sin, they will be forgiven, and should not be excommunicated after making a good confession.

Of course, we should still keep them away from children, in case they are tempted to sin again. The boy scouts have it right.


38 posted on 10/24/2011 6:39:12 PM PDT by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: papertyger
I find it distasteful when folks spend so much energy criticizing other folks Christian faith.

I've heard it on both sides to be fair. Sometimes I wonder if Christ is just shaking his head at all the bantering, thinking to himself, “Yep Dad, it was the right decision to go on down and save these poor saps. (My attempt at humor).

All mainline protestant denominations are losing folks just as the Catholic church. Satan loves to attack the church from within as we've witnessed so many times.

The muzzies, Mormons, Protestants, Catholics, Jews all believe they are the only way. Scripture tells me that Christ is the only way and that men are sinful,prone to messing it all up.

How true, evidenced throughout my personal walk with the Lord.
I happen to revere the Catholic church, just so you'll know.
My heart hurts to see so much turmoil within the church.

Mans sinful nature and poor decisions throughout the leadership perpetuated really awful situations. Not exclusive to the Catholic church to be sure.

Often wonder how one reconciles with themselves knowing they've stripped bare the very faith they purport.

Tough stuff.

39 posted on 10/24/2011 7:08:30 PM PDT by servantboy777
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To: servantboy777
The muzzies, Mormons, Protestants, Catholics, Jews all believe they are the only way. Scripture tells me that Christ is the only way and that men are sinful,prone to messing it all up.

Beware! The first mistake people usually make when they can't determine who is right and who is mistaken, with the inadequate discernment they have at that time, is to declare everyone mistaken to some degree, instead of seeking to enhance and refine their ability to distinquish wolves from sheep....

40 posted on 10/24/2011 7:31:53 PM PDT by papertyger (What has islam ever accomplished that treacherous, opportunistic, brutality couldn't do on its own?)
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To: Mariner
According to the Vatican itself they are wrong to say the Pope didn't say or wasn't approving...once again backtracking is the norm when they are caught between a rock and hard place. "The Council on Justice and Peace"... is authoritative for the Vatican and Church unless reined in by the Pope.

The Pope appoints each individual within this group. And accordingly speak on his behalf.

As an organism 'of the Holy See', the Council is first and foremost at the service of the Holy Father and also collaborates with other departments of the 'Roman Curia.' (see below)

Because of the interest of the Holy See in the work of the United Nations, the Pontifical Council, in collaboration with the Secretariat of State, has frequent contacts with ‘the United Nations’ and its ‘specialized agencies’, especially at the time of the major international conferences.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/justpeace/documents/rc_pc_justpeace_pro_20011004_en.html THE ROMAN CURIA In exercising supreme, full, and immediate power in the ‘universal Church’, the Roman pontiff makes use of the departments of the Roman Curia which,... therefore,... perform their duties ‘in his name’ and ‘with his authority’ for the good of the churches and in the service of the sacred pastors. CHRISTUS DOMINUS, 9 http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/index.htm

41 posted on 10/24/2011 8:15:54 PM PDT by caww
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To: agere_contra

What???? Think your mistaken they have no authority...look again from the Vatican site...

The Pope appoints each individual within this group. And accordingly speak on his behalf.

As an organism ‘of the Holy See’, the Council is first and foremost at the service of the Holy Father and also collaborates with other departments of the ‘Roman Curia.’ (see below)

Because of the interest of the Holy See in the work of the United Nations, the Pontifical Council, in collaboration with the Secretariat of State, has frequent contacts with ‘the United Nations’ and its ‘specialized agencies’, especially at the time of the major international conferences.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/justpeace/documents/rc_pc_justpeace_pro_20011004_en.html THE ROMAN CURIA In exercising supreme, full, and immediate power in the ‘universal Church’, the Roman pontiff makes use of the departments of the Roman Curia which,... therefore,... perform their duties ‘in his name’ and ‘with his authority’ for the good of the churches and in the service of the sacred pastors. CHRISTUS DOMINUS, 9 http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/index.htm


42 posted on 10/24/2011 8:18:04 PM PDT by caww
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To: DManA

DmanA....I just visited the Vatican site today on reading about this...you are correct they do indeed speak for the Pope...and He appoints each individual to that council.

I also found that link interesting even into it’s formation and the authority it’s given.

However I do think we’re going to see many catholics excusing or defending the Pope and this council as well...they will most assurredly claim “victimhood” and the world is out to ge them. Unfortunately doing so because it is sooo difficult for them to see what they’re church is actually doing.


43 posted on 10/24/2011 8:24:07 PM PDT by caww
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To: SamuraiScot

Don’t understand why catholics are always claiming they are “victims” when their leadership clearly and without question have established ‘a document’ by those the Vatican appoints to speak on it’s behalf, and make it public for it’s members to see.

Then there’s a mad rush to say that it’s not true...and the gibberish and confoggled attempts to protect themselves from the truth begins.

It isn’t people are catholic bashing, though they’d like us all to believe that, it’s what the leadership is doing and stating that people are objecting to.....it’s really not as confusing as it most assuredly will become.


44 posted on 10/24/2011 8:30:36 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww

I’m just confused. Who are these people. They get paid a salary by the Roman Church right? Why do we listen to any Catholic authority? Does random junk come out of this Church? How is anyone to know what to take seriously and what to toss in the dumpster?


45 posted on 10/24/2011 9:11:58 PM PDT by DManA
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To: SamuraiScot

Ok, just ignore anything that comes out of Rome. I can do that.


46 posted on 10/24/2011 9:26:46 PM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA
Why do we listen to any Catholic authority?

Well we shouldn't but many do without checking it out to see if what's being said is so according to the source of Gods standards....ya check with the Lord and then with the scriptures and He'll tell you the truth.

I got fed up with all the "messages" and finally went to the source of all truth. I was not disappointed... and neither will anyone else be if they just take the time, ask, and read. I think God knows when we get fed up and we finally go to Him.

47 posted on 10/24/2011 9:54:05 PM PDT by caww
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To: KOZ.

Placemark.


48 posted on 10/24/2011 10:54:29 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: caww; DManA
Don’t understand why catholics are always claiming they are “victims”

Ok, just ignore anything that comes out of Rome. I can do that.

It seems to me that it's non-Catholics who are claiming to be the victims here. On the one hand, you're outraged that the Pope claims to stand for the truth. How dictatorial, how arrogant. Yet you're also outraged that he doesn't enforce a unified line of academic thought. The institution the Pope heads, like any college of intellectuals, contains some mild (by European or Obama Administration standards) Lefty nuttiness. Christ Himself did His work happily surrounded by men who had a lot of mistaken opinions to start with, most of whom turned out all right. The Church has never been eager to yank up the tares and damage the wheat in the process.

You've had more than 2,000 years to get used to this idea, keep trying: The Pope is the Vicar of Christ. When he speaks on what really matters, which is faith and morals, he is authoritative and—Catholics believe—infallible. For the other stuff, you're on your own. I remind you that Christ Himself stayed out of policy questions ("Render unto Caesar . . .") I'm sure you can handle that.

49 posted on 10/25/2011 5:44:30 AM PDT by SamuraiScot
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To: papertyger
Well put.

The inference intended was man's fallen state and our propensity to shape worship to our sensibility.

I have no doubts regarding the Holy Trinity and scripture.

I do however have a bit of a hiccup with the deification of man.

We see this so much in our society these days. Marginalizing the deity and deification of humans. Kinda makes me cringe.

50 posted on 10/25/2011 6:09:55 AM PDT by servantboy777
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