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To: Cboldt

I’m sorry, but your post illustrates a lack of understanding of law and society.

We, as a civilized society, have decided a set of rules we all agree to live by. You don’t have to like them, agree with them, or accept them as just, but you do have to follow them, or face the penalty for violating them, or leave this society. Period.

Just as you don’t want me deciding that I have rights to occupy your property whenever you are not home, I don’t want 250,000,000 individuals deciding what laws they will obey and which they will not.

The answer to a disagreement with a law is to attempt to educate 51% of the people to agree with you. It is not in disobedience.

Are all gun laws unconstitutional? Do you want a person convicted of child abuse to be able to follow your child to school with a concealed weapon? Do you want 6 loyal Islamist followers of your local radical imam to sit on the street in front of your house with a loaded ZU-23, while drunk on cheap red wine?

It’s like playing Monopoly or Scrabble. We all agree to play by the same rules, or the game (or life) is worthless.

If you don’t like a rule, work to change it. If you can’t get people to agree to vote to change it, don’t blame the law; blame yourself.


36 posted on 10/25/2011 12:57:26 PM PDT by MindBender26 (Forget AMEX. Remember your Glock 27: Never Leave Home Without It!)
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To: MindBender26
-- I'm sorry, but your post illustrates a lack of understanding of law and society. --

Heh. I understand it fine. When a judge can read precedent for the opposite of what it says, the judge is the problem. See chronic misapplication of Presser and Miller.

-- You don't have to like them, agree with them, or accept them as just, but you do have to follow them, or face the penalty for violating them, or leave this society. --

I have to follow them because the government has superior power of force, not because the government has the benefit of "moral right" by adhering to its own agreement with the people.

-- I don't want 250,000,000 individuals deciding what laws they will obey and which they will not. --

Well, the reality is many people don't follow the law, and don't respect (that is, hold as "proper") large swaths of it. They disobey, and take their chances.

-- Are all gun laws unconstitutional? --

I think no, but I think you find that if SCOTUS says they are, then they are.

-- Do you want a person convicted of child abuse to be able to follow your child to school with a concealed weapon? --

Of course I don't like creeps. I also don't suppose that the law prevents people from being creeps. Punish wrongdoing - but I'd not punish a person for being armed, unless they use that threat of force as a means to obtain what they aren't entitled to.

-- The answer to a disagreement with a law is to attempt to educate 51% of the people to agree with you. It is not in disobedience. --

The answer isn't either/or. Laws can be nullified by various means.

-- If you can't get people to agree to vote to change it, don't blame the law; blame yourself. --

I have nothing to do with Scalia's decision to circumvent precedent with illogic.

42 posted on 10/25/2011 1:26:23 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: MindBender26
If you can’t get people to agree to vote to change it, don’t blame the law; blame yourself.

It is an absurdity that the will of the majority is omnipotent and omniscient. If the majority of the people in a society believe a distinctly identifiable minority should be enslaved simply because the majority wants to have people as property, is that belief legitimized by passing a law? This is not an edge case. Similar arguments can be made against state sanctioned monopoly, for example.

Here in California people peacefully and legally protested arbitrary gun control laws with legal open carry. Rather than address the point of the protest, the state legislature enacted a law to outlaw open carry because of the police effort required to verify the protesters were following the letter of the law. What do you think of a law enacted to outlaw a freedom because of the cost of presuming guilt is too high?

46 posted on 10/25/2011 5:56:23 PM PDT by no-s (B.L.O.A.T. and every day...because some day soon they won't be making any more...for you.)
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To: MindBender26
Suppose fedgov bans ownership of the Glock 27. Will you turn yours in?
47 posted on 10/25/2011 6:01:10 PM PDT by Ken H (They are running out of other people's money. )
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To: MindBender26
Asking again. Suppose that possession of the Glock 27 was outlawed. Would you turn yours in... YES or NO?
61 posted on 10/25/2011 9:43:32 PM PDT by Ken H (They are running out of other people's money. )
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To: MindBender26
Are all gun laws unconstitutional?

Yes. Those that attempt to infringe upon "keeping" and "bearing" firearms are explicitly illegal. As for use, we already have other laws dealing with that, like assault and murder charges.

Your laws end where my Rights begin. Don't like it? Move to another Country.

73 posted on 10/26/2011 9:22:56 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: MindBender26; Ruy Dias de Bivar; Cboldt
If you don’t like a rule, work to change it.

Arizona did that--with their passage of the Firearms Freedom Act to allow manufacturing of firearms, including full auto NFA weapons, within their state if sold only to customers within the state of Arizona. See my post at #4 on page one of this thread.

101 posted on 10/26/2011 11:47:28 PM PDT by Aroostook25
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