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Was the Raid on Occupy Oakland Really Necessary?
The Atlantic ^ | 10/26/11 | Megan McArdle

Posted on 10/27/2011 5:35:51 AM PDT by Haiku Guy

Both the protesters and the police are at fault for the violence yesterday.

I'm not clear on what happened in Oakland last night, except that it was bad. The police are saying that they had to deploy beanbags and maybe tear-gas because people started throwing bottles, plates, and rocks when they tried to clear out the encampment at Occupy Oakland. I don't find this entirely implausible.

The protesters are saying that when their authority was challenged, the police reacted with overwhelming and inappropriate force, which I also don't find entirely implausible. Since the police and the protesters seem, to date, to be the only two witnesses to this event, I can't really call this one.

Since I don't really know which side is at fault (both, maybe) I'll offer some unsolicited advice to all parties.

(snip)

(Inane and useless pontificating follows abundantly)

(Excerpt) Read more at theatlantic.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: atlantic; lefties; leo; oakland; occupy
Megan McArdle is a senior editor for The Atlantic who writes about business and economics. She has worked at three start-ups, a consulting firm, an investment bank, a disaster recovery firm at Ground Zero, and the Economist somehow managed to parlay an unerring ability to always be wrong about everything into a lucrative career that requires no manual labor.

FIFY

1 posted on 10/27/2011 5:35:53 AM PDT by Haiku Guy
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To: Haiku Guy

“I fought the law, and the law won”.

Sorry lefties. That’s how big central government works.


2 posted on 10/27/2011 5:37:54 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (America First)
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To: Haiku Guy

The Obamavilles want violence. They want to police to crack heads and create martyrs for the cause. One thing Commies understand is the need for martyrs.


3 posted on 10/27/2011 5:38:18 AM PDT by Haiku Guy (Obama's new motto: Apres moi le deluge)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

“The People... United... Will Never Be Defeated...”

(unless by the massive all-controlling state which “the people” have demanded)


4 posted on 10/27/2011 5:40:11 AM PDT by Haiku Guy (Obama's new motto: Apres moi le deluge)
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To: Haiku Guy

These people have no right to camp... You want to march and go home at night....fine...but beyond that....occupation is a crime.


5 posted on 10/27/2011 5:40:36 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Haiku Guy
Why don't they just transport the Oakland OWSers over to Haight and Ashbury in S.F.?

It's not too far a drive and many will be able to relive when they were there the first time as dirty hippies and be able to show the young'uns how to bathe in the fountain......

...just like the good ol' days of the 60's! :P

6 posted on 10/27/2011 5:44:08 AM PDT by CAluvdubya (Heartless4Cain.......)
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To: All

Can’t the city officials pipe in really loud Classical Music at these parks? I’ve heard that really works to keep youth out of certains areas...


7 posted on 10/27/2011 5:46:53 AM PDT by Maringa
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To: Haiku Guy

Remember the goal of these “protests” is to get general public support for a federal police state crackdown to “quell the violence”.

They have to portray the locals as inept or evil.


8 posted on 10/27/2011 5:48:41 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Haiku Guy
The only thing I can see wrong with the raid is they waited too long to clear the parasites out. Knowing that everything anyone connected with the obama administration does has an ulterior motive, coupled with the fact that they initially encouraged the vermin, causes me to question the timing and ask,why now.

This crap that the parasites crossed the line does not fly. they knew their motives, who sponsored them, their makeup, and their tatics before the "protests" began. They turned a blind eye then and offered encouragement. neither does the "the authorties lost pateience" pass the smell test. They learned nothing new from the beginning until they decided to shut them down.

9 posted on 10/27/2011 5:49:32 AM PDT by sport
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To: Maringa
The patented Mosquito is a small speaker that produces a high frequency sound much like the buzzing of the insect it’s named after. This high frequency can [only] be heard by young people 13 to 25 years old.
10 posted on 10/27/2011 5:50:23 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Haiku Guy

If approached properly, the GOP could win over some disillusioned Yute, if the point could be made clearly that creating a central government large and powerful enough to do what they are demanding from it - makes that central government large and powerful enough to toss their self-absorbed butts out of their tents and sleeping bags, at any time.

They are creating what they claim to oppose.

It is what liberals do.


11 posted on 10/27/2011 5:51:50 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (America First)
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To: Haiku Guy
Both the protesters and the police are at fault for the violence yesterday.

I'm not clear on what happened in Oakland last night...

Her second sentence exposes the utter idiocy of her first sentence.

12 posted on 10/27/2011 5:52:58 AM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: Sacajaweau

Megan McArdle and her ilk want the happy middle which cannot exist.

She wants the Obamavilles to be a constant presense that the Democrats can exploit for political purposes, but it becoming clear, even to Ms. McArdle, that the train-wreck is inevitable.


13 posted on 10/27/2011 5:55:23 AM PDT by Haiku Guy (Obama's new motto: Apres moi le deluge)
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To: Haiku Guy
Both the protesters and the police are at fault for the violence yesterday.

I'm not clear on what happened in Oakland last night, except that it was bad.

Doesn't know what happened but she knows the police are at fault!

14 posted on 10/27/2011 6:01:15 AM PDT by pgkdan (("Make what Americans buy, Buy what Americans make, and sell it to the world" Perry 2012)
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To: dead
Both the protesters and the police are at fault for the violence yesterday.

I'm not clear on what happened in Oakland last night...

Your Comment: Her second sentence exposes the utter idiocy of her first sentence.

I'm not clear on what happened... But here is my idiotic conclusion, anyway.

McArdle starts with the assumption that there was no real problem at the Oakland Obamaville, and that they were all being peaceful and law-abiding, if a little bit smelly and disheveled.

The reality is that the Oakland Obamaville was becoming a lawless zone. Police and Firemen were unable to respond to emergencies withing the encampment when they were called. The "security" provided by the Obamaville was an armed gang, which was worse than the problem.

15 posted on 10/27/2011 6:02:59 AM PDT by Haiku Guy (Obama's new motto: Apres moi le deluge)
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To: Haiku Guy
I'm not clear on what happened in Oakland last night, except that it was bad.

Megan's not clear, but she has an opinion that it was the cops fault and it was bad, bad, bad.

16 posted on 10/27/2011 6:04:13 AM PDT by USS Alaska (Nuke the Terrorists Savages)
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To: pgkdan
Doesn't know what happened but she knows the police are at fault!

No no! Both sides are at fault, don'tcha know...

Since the Obamaville idiots are serving McArdle's political purpose, she is willing to grant them moral equivalence to the police. So no matter what law they break or how much they provoke and incite, the police will be equally at fault when they respond.

But let a Tea Partier spit on the sidewalk, and its Katie Bar The Door.

17 posted on 10/27/2011 6:08:28 AM PDT by Haiku Guy (Obama's new motto: Apres moi le deluge)
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To: USS Alaska

Four Legs Good. Two Legs Bad!


18 posted on 10/27/2011 6:11:01 AM PDT by Haiku Guy (Obama's new motto: Apres moi le deluge)
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To: Haiku Guy
The protesters are saying that when their authority was challenged, the police reacted with overwhelming and inappropriate force

WHAT authority do a bunch of smelly squatters have?

19 posted on 10/27/2011 6:21:39 AM PDT by NRA1995 (Obama's presidency is shovel-ready; let's bury it in 2012!)
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To: NRA1995
WHAT authority do a bunch of smelly squatters have?

With all due respect, I think she meant the POLICE authority was challenged.

20 posted on 10/27/2011 6:34:07 AM PDT by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: dead

“The Oakland police acted stupidly”...


21 posted on 10/27/2011 6:36:06 AM PDT by markoman (The man with the rubber glove was....surprisingly gentle.)
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To: Haiku Guy

Nah, but it sure was fun...


22 posted on 10/27/2011 6:38:21 AM PDT by onona (FR is continuing education)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

“Progressives” want government to control everybody and everything except them and their activities.


23 posted on 10/27/2011 6:38:33 AM PDT by all the best
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To: markoman

Beer Summit!


24 posted on 10/27/2011 7:12:34 AM PDT by Haiku Guy (Obama's new motto: Apres moi le deluge)
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To: Haiku Guy

Well, lots of folks here want things to be like they used to be...I remember lots of riots back in the ‘60s, not to mention all those since the Whiskey Rebellion. Things have been relatively calm since the ‘80s.


25 posted on 10/27/2011 7:13:58 AM PDT by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: Haiku Guy

An Oakland officer claimed to have seen someone in the camp with an AR -15, Hence the ramp up of forces..


26 posted on 10/27/2011 7:15:28 AM PDT by muddler (Diligentia, Vis and Celeritas)
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To: stuartcr

McArdle thinks that the Obamavilles will be useful politically. This is a fantasy. These demonstrations are going to end ugly.


27 posted on 10/27/2011 7:24:27 AM PDT by Haiku Guy (Obama's new motto: Apres moi le deluge)
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To: Haiku Guy

I agree, not many riots end attractively.


28 posted on 10/27/2011 7:32:14 AM PDT by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: Haiku Guy

Interesting reading the comments section, not many readers sympathized with the OWs crowd. And The Atlantic is hardly a hotbed of conservative literature. When even many lefties are getting fed-up with the mostly filthy swine inhabiting their streets and parks, it might be time for Obama to reevaluate his support of the whiners.


29 posted on 10/27/2011 7:34:41 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I dont approve at all of these stun grenades used by the cops.

Both groups are using this for their own purpose.

The police state loves this stuff.


30 posted on 10/27/2011 7:44:45 AM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: driftless2
...it might be time for Obama to reevaluate his support of the whiners.

That is why we need to make sure Obama cannot distance himself from the Obamavilles. He married the girl... Now he has to stick with her!

31 posted on 10/27/2011 7:47:22 AM PDT by Haiku Guy (Obama's new motto: Apres moi le deluge)
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To: CAluvdubya

San Francisco doesn’t want ‘em. Those “tolerant and sophisticated” San Franciscans are fed up with the OWSers.


32 posted on 10/27/2011 7:52:33 AM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: GlockThe Vote
I dont approve at all of these stun grenades used by the cops.

I don't think those were stun grenades. I think they were tear gas canisters that emit a startling bang when they are deployed. But they are not bright or loud enough to incapacitate the way a stun grenade does.

Not to say that means you should support the use of this type of tear gas canister, of course. It's just a different critter.

33 posted on 10/27/2011 7:52:44 AM PDT by Haiku Guy (Obama's new motto: Apres moi le deluge)
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To: Haiku Guy

I dont support OWS, but the police are no better.

Both are exploiting this situation for gain.

Watch the new toys these cops get next year as a result of this.


34 posted on 10/27/2011 7:56:52 AM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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Many thanks to Salamander and Odhinn

Click the pic and donate
or the Doberman gets it!

35 posted on 10/27/2011 8:12:42 AM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Sorry lefties. That’s how big central government works.

Except that's not what happened. That's the delicious irony to this whole thing.

Those weren't federal forces out there. Those were Oakland PD cops, deployed by the duly elected government of the people of the City of Oakland, Cal. The Mayor is a Democrat, as is every member of the City Council.

These are lefties rebelling against the laws and ordinances exacted, and apparently enforced, by their fellow local lefties.

36 posted on 10/27/2011 8:15:48 AM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin
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To: Haiku Guy

anybody who thinks any police actions are ‘unprovoked’ has obviously never been in the line of fire of the crap protesters toss and spit at the police ..

some of the local media on location reported bottles and stones being thrown.. peaceful? hardly.


37 posted on 10/27/2011 10:07:30 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed .. Monthly Donor Onboard .. Obama: Epic Fail or Bust!!!)
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To: dead
Both the protesters and the police are at fault for the violence yesterday.

No. I watched it and the protestors were not only throwing things, they were shooting bottle rockets and throwing m-80's around, and hit several people including the police. The police responded with tear gas only. Those who ran up and confronted police, or refused to move were arrested.

I'm not clear on what happened in Oakland last night...

She knows exactly what happened, because she had the same opportunity I did to watch the videos. She just doesn't want to believe, or admit to what she saw.

38 posted on 10/27/2011 10:12:08 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: Haiku Guy
The Oakland police acted like a bunch of gutless pigs and cowards. First they fired on unarmed protesters critically injuring Iraqi Marine vet Scott Olsen. Then when people went to his aid they were then fired upon by the same people that are supposed to serve and protect them.

A true hero is that guy in Atlanta that showed up at the protests sporting a rifle. When asked what he was doing there he replied that he didn't agree with what the protesters were standing for, but he was going to protect them from anybody trying to shut them up. Now THAT'S a TRUE American.

39 posted on 10/27/2011 11:54:27 AM PDT by getoffmylawn ("Nihilist? That must be exhausting." - The Dude)
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To: NormsRevenge

Then those cops are pussies. I worked as a bouncer in late nite bars in Chicago for years, and we had a motto, “Let them hit you. They’re yuppies. They can’t hurt you.” If these cops can’t handle a few bottle stones and hockers flying at them, they should have gotten jobs greeting people at Walmart.


40 posted on 10/27/2011 11:58:35 AM PDT by getoffmylawn ("Nihilist? That must be exhausting." - The Dude)
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To: getoffmylawn

“Then those cops are pussies. I worked as a bouncer in late nite bars in Chicago for years, and we had a motto, “Let them hit you. They’re yuppies. They can’t hurt you.” If these cops can’t handle a few bottle stones and hockers flying at them, they should have gotten jobs greeting people at Walmart.”

I’ve never seen a bouncer that would put up with being hit, having bottles thrown at him or being spit upon without some ‘action’ being taken.


41 posted on 10/27/2011 12:24:48 PM PDT by NewinTexsas
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To: Haiku Guy
Is it really worth violence to keep people from sleeping in a park?

What does throwing a tantrum for the right to sleep in a park have to do with Wall Street abuses?

42 posted on 10/27/2011 12:27:56 PM PDT by GSWarrior (Click HERE to read the entire post.)
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To: Haiku Guy

Oakland shoulda imposed taxes and fees.


43 posted on 10/27/2011 2:20:11 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: getoffmylawn

Hero’s bump!


44 posted on 10/27/2011 11:09:13 PM PDT by dcwusmc (A FREE People have no sovereign save Almighty GOD!!! III OK We are EVERYWHERE!!!)
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To: Haiku Guy

the raid in OAKLAND was about 10 days from the statements that the occupy movement needs a ‘kent state’ moment

van jones -> oakland

this kid was hit with a gas canister and then moments later a flash bang lands next to him. odds are good he was targeted. why? as a retired marine, he would be the perfect poster child to ferment anger amongst the military

their next step will be to capitalize on it and swing that anger in their favor

if successful, the next step gets ugly


45 posted on 10/28/2011 1:07:25 PM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: NewinTexsas
"I’ve never seen a bouncer that would put up with being hit, having bottles thrown at him or being spit upon without some ‘action’ being taken."

Hell, you can dress me up and full riot gear and bounce crap off me all day long.

Now if you throw stuff at me or spit on me as a casually dressed bouncer, and I'll subdue you without hurting any other customers around me, and you'll sleep on cold concrete with bad coffee that nite, but there won't be any innocent Marines needing brain surgery.

46 posted on 10/29/2011 1:31:44 PM PDT by getoffmylawn ("Nihilist? That must be exhausting." - The Dude)
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To: GlockThe Vote
I dont approve at all of these stun grenades used by the cops.

Both groups are using this for their own purpose.

The police state loves this stuff.

When it happens to a group of Sarah Palin supporters at a book signing, maybe they will finally get it.

47 posted on 10/29/2011 1:35:38 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: Mr. Jeeves

They think it will never happen to them.


48 posted on 10/29/2011 1:44:06 PM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: getoffmylawn

This Scott Olsen?

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=27225


49 posted on 10/29/2011 3:09:40 PM PDT by NewinTexsas
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To: NewinTexsas

I seriously doubt it.


50 posted on 10/29/2011 10:04:31 PM PDT by getoffmylawn ("Nihilist? That must be exhausting." - The Dude)
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