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Born In The U.S.A.: Birth Tourists Get Instant U.S. Citizenship For Their Newborns
MSNBC ^ | October 28, 2011 | Anna Schecter

Posted on 10/28/2011 10:16:18 AM PDT by Steelfish

Born In The U.S.A.: Birth Tourists Get Instant U.S. Citizenship For Their Newborns Oct 28, 2011

By Anna Schecter

A curious global industry has emerged that caters to wealthy foreign women willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars to give birth in the United States and get instant U.S. citizenship for their babies. The hefty price is worth it, according to these women, because it paves the way for easy access to American public schools, universities and jobs as the children get older and green cards for the whole family once the child turns 21.

The women stay at controversial birth tourism centers, often hidden in suburbia. The centers have riled neighbors and ignited outrage on Capitol Hill.

“They are gaming the system…and people should be put in jail,” said Representative Phil Gingrey (R-Ga), one of several members of Congress trying to put an end to birth tourism.

The United States is the only country in the developed world other than Canada that grants jus soli or birthright citizenship. The U.S. law dates back to the 14th Amendment of the Constitution, ratified after the Civil War to ensure that all freed slaves and their children would be American citizens.

NBC News gained access to four birth tourism centers in the New York City borough of Queens. The owners, all women, said they know their industry is controversial, but they hope it will soon be recognized and supported by the U.S. government.

“Yes, our business is a sensitive topic, but we have a lot to offer the American culture and economy,” said Katie, a business owner who asked that her last name not be used.

“These women are the economic elite…and they are fueling the economy here. I

(Excerpt) Read more at rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: 14th; aliens; birth; freecheese; illegals; tourism
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This is the biggest UNCONSTITUTIONAL scam. Those born in the US are citizens ONLY if their parents were subject to the jurisdiction of our nation. Foreigners are NOT. Why aren't the major candidates not addressing this issue?

Demand the resignation of Hillary Clinton!

Read the whole story. It is appalling!

1 posted on 10/28/2011 10:16:20 AM PDT by Steelfish
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To: Steelfish

300,000 to 400,000 anchor babies are born each year in this country. Birthright citizenship is the current law of the land and has been for a very long time. We need to change the law or the Constitution, whichever works.


2 posted on 10/28/2011 10:19:12 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Steelfish

Amazingly, we have a large number of FReepers who think it’s fine and dandy for these babies to grow up and become president someday.


3 posted on 10/28/2011 10:20:02 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: Steelfish
Laws clarifying this issue are needed immediately. This citizenship at birth of children of illegals and non resident foreigners must stop.
4 posted on 10/28/2011 10:21:52 AM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-Qaeda" and its allies.)
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To: Steelfish

Laws clarifying this issue are needed immediately. This citizenship at birth of children of illegals and non resdient foreigners must stop.


5 posted on 10/28/2011 10:22:22 AM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-Qaeda" and its allies.)
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To: Steelfish

Speaking of people who should be put in jail; Start with Obama.


6 posted on 10/28/2011 10:23:28 AM PDT by edge919
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To: Steelfish

The graduate housing at my College is full of Chinese girls having babies.


7 posted on 10/28/2011 10:24:42 AM PDT by Christian Engineer Mass (25ish Cambridge MA grad student. Many conservative Christians my age out there? __ Click my name)
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To: Christian Engineer Mass

The 14th Amendment

This is a transcript of the Dr. John C. Eastman video presentation on the 14th Amendment and birthright citizenship. Dr. Eastman is Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law. He is also Director for the Center for Constitutional Jurisprudence at The Claremont Institute. As an expert in constitutional law, Dr. Eastman has testified before Congress on the issue of the Fourteenth Amendment, anchor babies, and birthright citizenship.

You can also view the Eastman video on the CAPS website.

Hello, my name is John Eastman. I’m the Dean of Chapman University School of Law. I’d like to share with you today a few thoughts about birthright citizenship.

You know, many people today think if you’re just born on U.S. soil that makes you a citizen, but that’s not quite what our Constitution says. It says all persons born or naturalized in the United States (that’s the born on the soil part) and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens.

And it’s that “subject to the jurisdiction” clause that most people overlook. It means that you’re owing allegiance to this country; that you’ve become part of our system of government. You recognize the importance of the rule of law and consent of the governed.

And the children of people who are here just temporarily, whether legally or illegally, don’t meet that requirement for mandatory and automatic citizenship. You have lots of people here legally for example who are visiting from other countries just as tourists. You have people who come here as students on student visas.

Their children born on U.S. soil, that doesn’t mean that they are also subject to the jurisdiction of the United States in this broader owing- allegiance sense. Of course they have to comply with our laws while they’re here, but they’re not “subject to the jurisdiction” in the sense that the 14th Amendment intended.

And of course people who are here illegally, whether they’ve overstayed their visa or come here without a visa/without legal permission at all, have never become subject to the jurisdiction in this broader sense. And therefore, mandatory automatic citizenship just simply doesn’t apply to their children as a matter of constitutional law.

So the real question for us is what remedies can we have to get back to this original understanding of birthright citizenship?

Well, some people say we should have a constitutional amendment. Of course that’s a little bit redundant. If my understanding of the Constitution is correct, all we need is to remind people what the Constitution actually says. It wouldn’t need an amendment.

So the route I actually prefer is for members of Congress to pass a statute defining what their understanding of the Constitution’s mandatory automatic citizenship requirement is; extending additional citizenship offers to beyond that as they think is important for policy reasons, and then giving a bit of fast track to the courts to decide whether that act of Congress is correct or not.

A third mechanism would be if some city, someplace in the country, decided not to recognize the citizenship of children born to parents who are here illegally. And I believe the cities could do that. Of course it would probably provoke a legal challenge fairly quickly, and then we could try that case in the federal courts, the district court, the courts of appeals, and ultimately the Supreme Court weighing in on whether that litigation or that statute or ordinance of the local city is consistent with the birthright citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment.

You know some people may ask, “Why bother? We’ve had birthright citizenship as an understanding, even if it’s erroneous, for about a half a century. Why bother going back and trying to recapture the original understanding?”

Well, there are a couple of reasons. There are between 12 and 20 million illegal immigrants in this country right now. One of the draws for them to come here has been this erroneous notion of birthright citizenship, and that’s created huge problems. The problems at the southern border with coyotes and the way people are treated are legion.

There’s a whole industry in Los Angeles called birth tourism, where people come to this country specifically for the purpose of giving birth to children on U.S. soil. And that has made them all too frequently the prey of some of the most heinous kinds of human trafficking of people in the world in our history.

We shouldn’t tolerate that ever and to the extent our policies are encouraging that or inducing people to do that; those policies need to be revisited very quickly.

But there’s an even more important issue. One of the reasons the founders of our Constitution gave the power to Congress to decide how much immigration to have at any given time was because they understood how important it is in a government like ours, which is an experiment in self- government, that people come here in numbers that don’t overwhelm those that are used to governing themselves.

When you have whole groups of people come all at once from countries that are tyrannical; where they’ve learned to live in despotism, they come here without an appreciation of the rule of law or the capacity for self-government. And to the extent those numbers are huge, they could overwhelm our institutions and threaten this experiment in self government that has served us so well for over two centuries now.

So what can you do to help with this effort to recover the original understanding of the Constitution and its citizenship clause?

Well, one thing you can do is contact your member of Congress. Let him or her know that you’ve read the 14th Amendment’s citizenship clause and you recognize that it’s not just birth on U.S. soil alone but “subject to the jurisdiction” is also required for this automatic citizenship. And that means more than just subject to the traffic laws of our country. It means owing allegiance to our country; being part of our body politic and our system of government.

Illegal immigrants just don’t meet that criteria. They don’t owe that allegiance to our country. In fact, they owe allegiance to a foreign sovereign.

So let your member of Congress know that you’ve read those clauses. Urge them to read them as well, and urge them to get behind and support legislation that would help clarify what our Constitution actually requires on birthright citizenship. And you can do that today!


8 posted on 10/28/2011 10:26:25 AM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: elpadre

At this stage, the clarification would probably include a free tuition ,$100k gubmint bond and box of free cheese.
(and lifetime of free diapers if born in CT)


9 posted on 10/28/2011 10:28:46 AM PDT by WOBBLY BOB (See ya later, debt inflator ! Gone in 4 (2012))
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To: Steelfish

Can’t this be stopped with an “executive order” from a President? (it seems like everything else can be done with one)


10 posted on 10/28/2011 10:30:32 AM PDT by Cowboy Bob (Greed + Envy = Liberalism)
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To: Steelfish
The path to future Amerikan Muslim Jihadis.

11 posted on 10/28/2011 10:32:02 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: kabar

We don’t need to change anything, we just need to actually follow it

“subject to the jurisdiction” as it is for immigrants who have to renounce any & all foreign allegiances, one citizenship either at the time of naturalization or birth. PERIOD! That is what the 14th Amendments says!


12 posted on 10/28/2011 10:33:09 AM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: Cowboy Bob

Yes: Then there will be challenge to the Courts. We need to have a solid conservative majority and not have to depend on the whims of Justice Kennedy. Check out the article by Dean Eastman.


13 posted on 10/28/2011 10:35:38 AM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: buccaneer81

“Amazingly, we have a large number of FReepers who think it’s fine and dandy for these babies to grow up and become president someday.”

Trolls


14 posted on 10/28/2011 10:42:20 AM PDT by READINABLUESTATE (Millions of government bureaucrats are gang raping and choking the life out of America.)
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To: READINABLUESTATE

Some of them are 13 year trolls. It’s beyond barf-inducing.


15 posted on 10/28/2011 10:45:26 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: Steelfish

Liberals have chosen chaos theory to maintain power. We will divide ourselves at election time by endlessly debating policy points instead of uniting against the meta-cult known as liberalism now represented in the flesh by Obama.


16 posted on 10/28/2011 10:46:03 AM PDT by junta ("Peace is a racket", testimony from crime boss Barrack Hussein Obama.)
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To: kabar
"Birthright citizenship is the current law of the land and has been for a very long time."

No, you're wrong. Try reading the law.

"We need to change the law or the Constitution, whichever works."

No, we only need to change the administration.

The sooner we get Constitutionalists in place, the sooner we can straighten this country out.

17 posted on 10/28/2011 10:48:12 AM PDT by Designer (Nit-pickin' and chagrinin')
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To: Cowboy Bob

A solution has been proposed as follows:

Congress could pass a bill stating that the wording of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution, was intended, and is defined, to mean that foreign citizens visiting the US are not considered “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States for the purposes of extending citizenship to their offspring born during their visit.

The president would have to sign such a bill into law and then there would be the usual legal challenges, but it is a way to move the issue forward and into the public’s eye.

Republicans could have done this while Bush was president and they controlled both houses of congress.

But they were fully occupied passing democrats’ legislation for them, spending like drug crazed Obamas, and slopping all they could at the pig trough for themselves and their pals.


18 posted on 10/28/2011 10:52:09 AM PDT by Iron Munro ('We do have tough gun laws in Massachusetts; I support them.' -- Mitt Romney)
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To: Steelfish

Yeah it should definitely be changed but money is being made off of it and many important people like the status quo, just like they like open borders. A lot of these “people” have “Incorporated” after their name and big corner offices.

It doesn’t make any difference which Party is in power they want more illegals and more immigrants here, regardless of what it does to change our culture. Most in DC don’t work for the people they work for interests with money to throw around.

If you think about it for 15 seconds we have seen Republicans and Democrats in office and each Party has had a chance to enforce borders or initiate an immigration policy that benefits the USA, but they don’t. Both Parties are owned. Their decisions should be based upon the wishes of the US people but they are based more upon what powerful global interests want.


19 posted on 10/28/2011 10:53:46 AM PDT by apoliticalone (Honest govt. that operates in the interest of US sovereignty and the people, not global $$$)
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To: Christian Engineer Mass

[ The graduate housing at my College is full of Chinese girls having babies. ]

While I don’t blame them for wanting this, it is a perversion of the spirit of the law.


20 posted on 10/28/2011 10:54:09 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: Steelfish
And it’s that “subject to the jurisdiction” clause that most people overlook. It means that you’re owing allegiance to this country; that you’ve become part of our system of government. You recognize the importance of the rule of law and consent of the governed.

Well, no, that's not what the clause means.

It means that the person is subject to our laws, or that the person does not have diplomatic immunity.

Children of diplomats do not become citizens if born here. As the law presently stands anyone else born here does.

There is a good constitutional argument to be made whether changing this requires just a law or a constitutional amendment. Which is needed cannot be settled without a ruling by the Supremes.

I don't necessarily approve of this state of affairs, but that is the law as presently interpreted and applied. If you don't like it, work to change it. But don't claim that isn't what the law is.

21 posted on 10/28/2011 10:55:44 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Steelfish

I have a question.

If an anchorbaby or some other US-born Tourist baby was not granted US Citizenship, what citizenship would they be? Don’t tell me they gain the automatic citizenship status based on their parents, because if we toughen down on the loophole, the countries taking advantage of it will turn right around and try to force the issue.

Example: If Anchorbabies were denied US Citizenship, the first thing you would see is Mexcio’s Government pass a law that would end granting Mexican Citizenship to babies born abroad to Mexican-citizen parents. They would thus purposely prohibit the baby’s entry into Mexico upon the illegals’ eventual return there, putting the US Government in a bind as to what to do. The US can’t force the Mexican Government or any other soverign nation to recognize the anchorbaby as a Mexican citizen. So what do you do?

My thought was that the US Citizenship status to anchorbabies and Tourist-Babies was a necessary evil to protect the child from ending up as “a man/woman without a country”.


22 posted on 10/28/2011 10:56:29 AM PDT by parksstp (Articulate Conservatives look for Converts. RINO's look for Democrat Heretics.)
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To: parksstp

wrong.


23 posted on 10/28/2011 11:03:40 AM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: Sherman Logan

I don’t necessarily approve of this state of affairs, but that is the law as presently interpreted and applied. If you don’t like it, work to change it. But don’t claim that isn’t what the law is.

The SCOTUS only decided that children of 2 lawful permanent residents are citizens under the 14th aamendment. They did not decide if children of tempoorary visitors or persons illegally in the us were citizens . Congress has failed to address this issue. The legal community has failed to push the issue to resolution. Everyone is being chicken of political fallout, so they avoid the issue like an ostrich with its head in the sand while our nation is being torn down and lawful citizenship is being watered down.


24 posted on 10/28/2011 11:10:38 AM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: rolling_stone

I agree the issue has never been definitively ruled on by the Supreme Court. Until it does, the law is as it is presently interpreted.

Personally, if the Court were to rule on a case, I would expect them to go for jus solis. Whether overturning such a ruling would require a law or an amendment I have no idea.

The original Constitution gave Congress power over naturalization, which to me at least implies authority to pass a law on this issue. But of course the 14th modified the original powers given Congress, and I don’t know enough law to guess how that might play out.

I do know the Wong Kim Ark decision said a child of two Chinese people (barred from citizenship at the time) who was born in this country was a full citizen. Implied, but I don’t believe explicitly stated, was that he was a natural-born citizen.


25 posted on 10/28/2011 11:18:34 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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Uh Oh! Didn't Donate?


Click The Pic To Keep Your Forum

26 posted on 10/28/2011 11:19:58 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: Steelfish
This is precisely why you ARE NOT a natural born citizen unless both your parents are citizens - ATTENTION Hussein 0bama!

FUBO GTFO! 449 Days until Noon Jan 20, 2013

27 posted on 10/28/2011 11:21:33 AM PDT by The Sons of Liberty (Psalm 109:8 Let his days be few and let another take his office. - Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin)
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To: parksstp

This is a situation where international treaties make sense, just as they do for extradition and child custody cases.


28 posted on 10/28/2011 11:21:50 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: buccaneer81

“Amazingly, we have a large number of FReepers who think it’s fine and dandy for these babies to grow up and become president someday.”

I don’t like it, but I do think it is the law right now. I’d be glad to work for a Constitutional Amendment to change it. I doubt anything less than that would stick.


29 posted on 10/28/2011 11:25:37 AM PDT by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: GraceG

“it is a perversion of the spirit of the law”

Exactly right. And it’s a perversion of our own interests of self-protection, for which the spirit of the law was intended


30 posted on 10/28/2011 11:25:37 AM PDT by Christian Engineer Mass (25ish Cambridge MA grad student. Many conservative Christians my age out there? __ Click my name)
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To: patlin

The Supreme Court used 17th century English common law to determine what “subject to the jurisdiction” means. I’d argue that in the 1600s in England, folks who entered the country without permission were EXECUTED as spies, so the common law of that time may not apply very well to today in the USA.


31 posted on 10/28/2011 11:29:45 AM PDT by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: Steelfish

Great Question! Go ahead and ask Perry on Foxnews Sunday then make sure every Freeper votes for your question.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-news-sunday/index.html


32 posted on 10/28/2011 11:34:53 AM PDT by huldah1776
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To: Mr Rogers
I don’t like it, but I do think it is the law right now.

It's not a "law" at all. It's a perversion of the Constitution that has gone unchallenged those with enough power to expose this travesty to the world.

33 posted on 10/28/2011 11:44:54 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: Sherman Logan
....I do know the Wong Kim Ark decision said a child of two Chinese people (barred from citizenship at the time) who was born in this country was a full citizen. Implied, but I don’t believe explicitly stated, was that he was a natural-born citizen.....

IMO the WKA showed he was not a natural born citizen, if he was they did not need to go to the 14th amendment but could have relied on the Constitution as they did in Minor v Happersett. It did show that an amendment (and similarly the Constitution itself) to the Constitution overrides a statute.

34 posted on 10/28/2011 11:51:08 AM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: Sherman Logan

Not correct. Read up on the history of this particular clause and the understanding of what it meant by the person who introduced it. Why add something superfluous to the text if every person born (excepting children of diplomats) in the US is automatically a US citizen?


35 posted on 10/28/2011 11:58:29 AM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: patlin
We don’t need to change anything, we just need to actually follow it

Au contraire. We must change the existing laws and statutes. I have issued passports. Birthright citizenship is the law of the land. It is not a matter of reinterpreting an existing law. Millions have received their citizenship that way. We must change the laws and if they are deemed unconstitutional, amend the Constitution.

36 posted on 10/28/2011 12:04:18 PM PDT by kabar
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To: rolling_stone
What ‘Subject to the Jurisdiction Thereof’ Really Means by P.A. MADISON on September 22nd, 2007 Because the purpose of the Fourteenth Amendments first section was to end the denial of those fundamental rights that belong to all citizens by virtue of their citizenship under Article IV, Sec. II of the U.S. Constitution was imperative to first define citizenship of the United States. Otherwise, a State could refuse to recognize newly emancipated slaves as citizens by withholding the right to sue, make contracts, due process, purchase property, etc. Therefore, the Fourteenth Amendment acts to recognize all persons as citizens who do not owe allegiance to some other government when naturalized or born. Perhaps the first most important thing to understand about national birthright is that there was no written national birthright rule applicable within the States prior to the year 1866. One will look in vain to find any national law on the subject prior to this year, or even any mention of the right to citizenship by birth under the United States Constitution. The principle reason for this absence is that no power had been delegated to Congress to make anyone a citizen of a State. Prior to the 14th amendment citizens of the United States were strictly defined as a citizen of some State. Madison made it clear rules of who is a citizen or alien properly belonged with each State when addressing a contested South Carolina Election of Rep. William Smith in the House of Representatives in 1794. Madison said the question of whether Rep. Smith had been a citizen of the United States for seven years at the time of the declaration of independence rested entirely with the Constitution of South Carolina: From an attention to the facts which have been adduced, and from a consideration of the principles established by the revolution, the conclusion I have drawn is, that Mr. Smith was, on the declaration of independence, a citizen of the United States; and unless it appears that he has forfeited his right, by some neglect or overt act, he had continued a citizen until the day of his election to a seat in this House. I take it to be a clear point, that we are to be guided, in our decision, by the laws and constitution of South Carolina, so far as they can guide us; and where the laws do not expressly guide us, we must be guided by principles of a general nature, so far as they are applicable to the present case . . . It were to be wished, that we had some law adduced, more precisely defining the qualities of a citizen or an alien; particular laws of this kind have obtained in some of the States; if such a law existed in South Carolina, it might have prevented this question from ever coming before us. After the Revolution, States retained only those portions of common law that were applicable to their local circumstances. In England at the time, every person born, with few exceptions such as children born of mix-parentage (they acquired the condition of their father if he was a freeman, else child acquired their mother’s citizenship) or diplomats within the realm of the King was considered a natural born subject under the maxim every man owes natural allegiance to the King. This allegiance was a personnel allegiance owed to the King personally, and such personal allegiance was never owed to any individual under the American system of States. This natural allegiance was perpetual and difficult to severe or alter (Once a English subject, always a English subject) and was found odious in this country (America went to war against this “natural allegiance” in 1812). While all States could be said to have recognized birth within the State as a means of conferring State citizenship to all persons, it is important to realize these States also required of aliens who desired to become domiciled within their limits to first renounce any allegiances to other governments and pledge their allegiance solely to the State. Therefore, a child born to domiciled parents was “born within the allegiance” of the State even if the parents had not yet been naturalized. When steamships came along making it easier for more people to cross the Atlantic and with the arrival of trains, States begun to restrict citizenship via birth by excluding transient aliens or temporary sojourners. Thus, only those who intended to reside and pledge their allegiance to the State through State law could claim citizenship for their children. Generally speaking, when an issue of aliens and citizenship went before the courts it meant some State had neglected to enact laws on the subject, thereby forcing the courts to adjudicate citizenship under old common law rules of place of birth. This is exactly what happened with the State of New York in 1844, forcing the State to later withhold citizenship from “transient aliens” by statute. * Conceivably, Congress could had from the beginning attempted to include a defined birthright rule under the laws of naturalization – whether due to place of birth or parentage – but would have found, just as the Thirty-Ninth Congress had discovered, to be no simple matter as individual States had differing opinions over who should, or should not, be its citizens. As a rule, the nation considered only those patriotic immigrants who came here for the exclusive purpose to settling amongst us, bringing with them wealth, like habits and customs as those worthy to become part of our society. And more importantly, those willing to renounce all prior allegiances to their country of origin and swear fidelity to this one. Paupers, vagabonds and imperialist were universally despised. Imagine for a moment Congress debating during the constitutional convention, or even years following the adoption of the Constitution, a national criterion for establishing citizenship by birth of all persons as practiced under English common law. Firstly, that would have been rejected by a number of States as placing men of color on an equal footing with the Anglo-Saxon race. This in return forcing perhaps an attempt to compromise using the words “free white men,” with that in return being rejected by some northern States as repugnant of the Declaration’s “all men are created equal.” Moreover, there undoubtedly would been terrible disputes over the fact the nation was attempting to adopt common law as general law, something more than a few considered derogatory. James Madison succinctly illustrates such dilemma to George Washington: What could the Convention have done? If they had in general terms declared the Common law to be in force, they would have broken in upon the legal Code of every State in the most material points: they wd. have done more, they would have brought over from G.B. a thousand heterogeneous & anti-republican doctrines, and even the ecclesiastical Hierarchy itself, for that is a part of the Common law. So what was to be the premise behind America’s first and only constitutional birthright declaration in the year 1866? Simply all children born to parents who owed no foreign allegiance were to be citizens of the United States – that is to say – not only must a child be born but born within the complete allegiance of the United States politically and not merely within its limits. There could be no alternative as the United States abandoned the English tradition of “perpetual allegiance” for the principal of expatriation, and thus, children inherit the preexisting allegiance of their father because there is no creation of allegiance through birth alone for foreigners in the United States. Under Sec. 1992 of U.S. Revised Statutes the same Congress who had adopted the Fourteenth Amendment, confirmed this principle: “All persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are declared to be citizens of the United States.” Who are the subjects of a foreign power? Thomas Jefferson said “Aliens are the subjects of a foreign power.” Thus, the statute can be read as “All persons born in the United States who are not aliens, excluding Indians not taxed, are declared to be citizens of the United States.” Sen. Trumbull stated during the drafting of the above national birthright law that it was the goal to “make citizens of everybody born in the United States who owe allegiance to the United States,” and if “the negro or white man belonged to a foreign Government he would not be a citizen.” Obviously he did not have the English common law practice in mind since existing allegiance was largely irrelevant. Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee (39th Congress), James F. Wilson of Iowa, added on March 1, 1866: “We must depend on the general law relating to subjects and citizens recognized by all nations for a definition, and that must lead us to the conclusion that every person born in the United States is a natural-born citizen of such States, except that of children born on our soil to temporary sojourners or representatives of foreign Governments.” Framer of the Fourteenth Amendments first section, John Bingham, said Sec. 1992 of U.S. Revised Statutes meant “every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” If this statute merely reaffirmed the old common law rule of citizenship by birth then the condition of the parents would be entirely irrelevant. It should be noted that the condition of the father is what determines whether someone is born an alien or not because under U.S. law citizenship of wives and children always followed that of the father. And of course the status of the father was what determined the citizenship of a child born under law of nature. During the debates of the Fourteenth Amendment’s citizenship clause, both its primary framers, Sen. Jacob Howard and Sen. Lyman Trumbull listened to concerns of including such persons as Chinese, Mongolians, and Gypsies to citizenship. Additionally, Sen. Fessenden (co-chairman of the Reconstruction Committee) raised the question of persons born of parents from abroad temporarily in this country – an issue he would not have raised if Congress were merely reaffirming the common law doctrine – and of course, the question of Indians. A common mischaracterization of the debates says Senators Trumbull, Cowan and Conness suggested both the Civil Rights Bill and the Fourteenth Amendment would make children of Chinese or Mongolian parent’s citizens regardless of the condition of the parents. However, this is an erroneous conclusion because they were discussing concerns over whether “race” of the parents could play a role. They were not suggesting locality of birth alone was the sole requirement of citizenship. Sen. Trumbull attempted to assure Senators that Indians were not “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States. Sen. Johnson argued that Sen. Trumbull was in error in regards to the Indian’s not being under the jurisdiction of the United States. This must have raised concerns with Howard because he strongly made it known that he had no intention whatsoever to confer citizenship upon the Indians under his amendment, no matter if born within or outside of their tribal lands. In Steel Co. v. Citizens for a Better Environment (1998) the court said “jurisdiction is a word of many, too many, meanings.” Therefore, it is important to discover the operational meaning behind “subject to the jurisdiction” as employed under the Fourteenth Amendment rather then assuming its meaning from other usages of the word jurisdiction alone. Both Sen. Trumbull and Sen. Howard provides the answer, with Trumbull declaring: The provision is, that ‘all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.’ That means ‘subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.’ What do we mean by ‘complete jurisdiction thereof?’ Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means. In other words, it isn’t local jurisdiction the Fourteenth Amendment recognizes but only the lack of owing allegiance to some other nation because the United States only recognizes those who are ‘true and faithful’ alone to the nation. As will be explained shortly, only acts under the laws of naturalization can remove an alien’s allegiance to some other country under United States law. Additionally, Trumbull argued Indians could not be subject to the jurisdiction for the reason the United States deals with them through treaties. This is also exactly how the United States deals with aliens; it enters into treaties with outer countries to define legal rights of their citizens while within the limits of the United States and vice versa. Example: A treaty with China prohibited the United States from naturalizing Chinese citizens. Sen. Trumbull further added, “It cannot be said of any Indian who owes allegiance, partial allegiance if you please, to some other Government that he is ‘subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.’” Sen. Jacob Howard agreed: [I] concur entirely with the honorable Senator from Illinois [Trumbull], in holding that the word “jurisdiction,” as here employed, ought to be construed so as to imply a full and complete jurisdiction on the part of the United States, coextensive in all respects with the constitutional power of the United States, whether exercised by Congress, by the executive, or by the judicial department; that is to say, the same jurisdiction in extent and quality as applies to every citizen of the United States now. This remark by Sen. Howard places this earlier comment of his on who is “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” into proper context: “This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.” What Sen. Howard is saying here is citizenship by birth is established by the sovereign jurisdiction the United States already has over the parents of the child, and that required that they owe allegiance exclusively to the United States – just as is required to become a naturalized citizen. It does not require a leap of faith to understand what persons, other than citizens themselves, under the Fourteenth Amendment are citizens of the United States by birth: Those aliens who have come with the intent to become U.S. citizens, who had first complied with the laws of naturalization in declaring their intent and renounce all prior allegiances. Sen. Trumbull further restates the the goal of the language: “It is only those persons who come completely within our jurisdiction, who are subject to our laws, that we think of making citizens…” Note that Trumbull does not say temporarily within our jurisdiction, but completely within our jurisdiction. He of course is talking about the laws of naturalization and consent to expatriation by the immigrant in order for him to come completely within the jurisdiction of the United States and its laws, i.e., he cannot be a subject of another nation. Without this full and complete jurisdiction, any foreign government can intervene on behalf of their own citizens while they visit or reside within the United States – just as the United States is known to do on behalf of U.S. citizens within other countries. On July 18, 1868 Sen. Howard explained expatriation to mean “the emigration of the foreigner from his native land to some other land non animo revertendi; that is, with the intention of changing his domicile and making his permanent home in the country to which he emigrates.” Sen. Howard explained that expatriation could only be complete through law alone, and not through any act of the immigrant acting on his own outside of the law – and certainly not by any act of birth. Any citizen owes the same quality of allegiance to their nation of origin as does their country’s ambassador or foreign ministers while within the limits of another nation unless they freely decide to renounce their allegiance in accordance to law. In other words, it would be preposterous to consider under the meaning given to “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” that a French subject visiting the United States was not a subject of France, but a complete subject (politically) of the United States while within the limits of the nation without first consenting to expatriation. The United States has always, as a matter of law, considered new arrivals subjects of the country from which they owed their allegiance. As a matter of law, new arrivals were recognized as bearing the allegiance of the country of their origin, and the only way that could change is through the voluntarily act of expatriation. No more is this evident then with the recording of the certificate of intent to become a citizen of the United States: James Spratt, a native of Ireland, aged about twenty-six years, bearing allegiance to the king of Great Britain and Ireland, who emigrated from Ireland and arrived in the United States on the 1st of June 1812, and intends to reside within the jurisdiction and under the government of the United States, makes report of himself for naturalization according to the acts of congress in that case made and provided, the 14th of April anno domini 1817, in the clerk’s office of the circuit court of the district of Columbia, for the county of Washington: and on the 14th of May 1817, the said James Spratt personally appeared in open court, and declared on oath, that it is his intention to become a citizen of the United States, and to renounce all allegiance and fidelity to every foreign prince, &c. Those who were not qualified under naturalization laws of the United States to become citizens of the United States would be unable to renounce their prior allegiances and consent to the full jurisdiction of the United States as needed to become a citizen. This is how children born to Indian’s and Asians were prevented from becoming citizens themselves under the language chosen. What changed after the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment? Not much really. States adopted laws that excluded either “transient aliens” or those not bona fide residents of the State. New York by 1857 had already a code that read, “All persons born in this state, and resident within it, except the children of transient aliens, and of alien public ministers and consuls, etc.” This code overturned the court ruling in Lynch v. Clarke (1844) where the court was forced to consider the English common law rule in regards to children born of aliens because New York had no laws on the subject at the time. After the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment, District of Columbia, California, Montana and South Dakota adopted identical language as New York. States could enact such laws because “transient aliens” could not be considered “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States. The State of Connecticut adopted a law that read, “All persons born in this State . . . except aliens, paupers, and fugitives from justice or service, are and shall be deemed to be citizens of this State, owing it allegiance and entitled to receive its protection, until they shall have voluntarily withdrawn from its limits and become incorporated into some other State or sovereignty as members thereof.” Such State laws were not contrary to the Fourteenth Amendment for the simple reason they merely deny citizenship to those born whom another sovereign claims as its own, i.e., denial of citizenship to those born owing allegiance to another sovereign conforms with the constitutional definition given to “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” Overwhelming evidence against the interpretation of “subject to the jurisdiction thereof,” or “not subject to any foreign power” as reaffirming the common law doctrine of citizenship by birth to aliens can be found following the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment. In 1867 George Helm Yeaman, United States Minister to Denmark, in his well received treatise on allegiance and citizenship, which was presented to Secretary of State William H. Seward, said: “But the idea of a double allegiance and citizenship united in the same person, and having reference to two separate, independent, and sovereign nations or governments, is simply an impossibility.” In the year 1873 the United States Attorney General ruled the word “jurisdiction” under the Fourteenth Amendment to mean, which Justice Gray would recognize in Elk v.Wilkins years later: The word “jurisdiction” must be understood to mean absolute and complete jurisdiction, such as the United States had over its citizens before the adoption of this amendment… Aliens, among whom are persons born here and naturalized abroad, dwelling or being in this country, are subject to the jurisdiction of the United States only to a limited extent. Political and military rights and duties do not pertain to them. (14 Op. Atty-Gen. 300.) House Report No. 784, dated June 22, 1874, stated, “The United States have not recognized a double allegiance. By our law a citizen is bound to be ‘true and faithful’ alone to our government.” There is no way in the world anyone can claim “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” affirms the feudal common law doctrine of birth citizenship to aliens because such doctrine by operation creates a “double allegiance” between separate nations. If there is one inescapable truth to the text and debates, it is this: When Congress decided to require potential citizens to first be subject to the complete jurisdiction of the United States they by default excluded all citizens of other nations temporarily residing in the U.S. who had no intention of becoming citizens themselves or, disqualified of doing so under naturalization laws. This was no oversight because it was too simple to declare the common law rule of jus soli if indeed that was truly the desired goal by these very competent lawyers (both Howard and Trumbull were lawyers). Aaron Sargent, a Representative from California during the Naturalization Act of 1870 debates said the Fourteenth Amendment’s citizenship clause was not a de-facto right for aliens to obtain citizenship. No one came forward to dispute this conclusion. Perhaps because he was absolutely correct. * The phrase “transient aliens” was generally used to refer to aliens other than “resident aliens” who were citizens or subjects of another country who could be in the country for any number of reasons, such as a stopover on an international trip, school, work, etc., who had no intent of becoming citizens or were unable to by law or treaty. A “resident alien” were deemed non-citizens who have come with the intent to permanently reside in a state and who have filed their intent to do so and had taken the oath of allegiance as required by law. Related Was U.S. vs. Wong Kim Ark Wrongly Decided? Warren Hathaway says: September 12, 2011 at 7:09 pm In his work, “Blunders of the Supreme Court of the United States, Part 3″ (online), the author, Dan Goodman, shows with cases from the Supreme Court that the political jurisdiction of the United States does not extend to the several States, but only to the District of Columbia, its territories and possessions, and federal enclaves with the several States of the Union and that one born in a State of the Union is subject to the political jurisdiction of that State and not that of the United States. So birthright citizenship does not apply to the several States of the Union! This article can be read at these two links: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/81552988/Blunders-of-the-Supreme-Court-of-the-United-States-_-Part-3 http://www.scribd.com/doc/57701755/Blunders-of-the-Supreme-Court-of-the-United-States-Part-3 Reply Roules John says: August 10, 2011 at 12:04 pm Thank you for this great aritlce, so there are aliens or not ?! Reply anon says: June 29, 2011 at 2:08 am leticia olalia morales of 15501 pasadena ave #8 tustin ca 92780 submitted fake documents and paid 5000 dollars to obtain a US tourist visa. she also submitted fake employment records to obtain a work visa. she is now applying for citizenship. her contact at the embassy was man named sandman. Reply Sunshine49 says: May 20, 2011 at 8:47 am When the 14th Amendment was written there were no “illegal” aliens in this country, against our laws and WITHOUT our permission like an invading army. To give citizenship to children of aliens who owe NO allegiance to the U.S. is a travesty of justice and a slap in the face to people who work for years to become naturalized citizens. THEIR children do NOT become citizens until the parents are naturalized! Citizenship is a privilege — NOT a right! Even England stopped there automatic English common law citizenship in 1983 because they were being over-run with illegals invading their country. Ted Kennedy was behind rewriting our citizenship laws in 1965 and everyone knows what a liberal progressive he was. The fact is that NOTHING can “change” an amendment to the Constitution except another amendment, which has never been done on the 14th Amendment. According to the framers of the 14th Amendment, a child of FOREIGN parents (especially the father) do NOT get U.S. citizenship at all! They did NOT recognize “dual” citizenship. Any citizenship law that runs contrary to the 14th Amendment is NOT constitutional. Reply Beaver says: April 28, 2011 at 5:09 am Looks like the Supreme Court shot themselves in the foot in 1897 when they wrote: That all children born within the dominion of the United States of foreign parents holding no diplomatic office became citizens at the time of their birth does not appear to have been contested or doubted until more than fifty years after the adoption of the Constitution, when the matter was elaborately argued in the Court of Chancery of New York and decided upon full consideration by Vice Chancellor Sandford in favor of their citizenship. Lynch v. Clark, (1844) 1 Sandf.Ch. 583. So it turns out Lynch v. Clark was not based on any law at the time but based on the fact NY had no law on the subject! The fact it was overturned pretty much proves it was contested contrary to what the court suggested. And you might be onto some huge by pointing out states all required foreigners to renounce all other allegiances and pledge sole allegiance to the state as a condition of taking up residence. So children born to them would have been born within the allegiance becaiuse of their father’s new existing allegiance and not because of locality!!!!!!!! I think when all is said and done it is the allegiance that is the 5 ton elephant in the room and not mere location of birth. Reply Parker says: October 1, 2011 at 1:58 pm Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the Wong Kim Ark verdict, an example of the Supreme Court legislating? If congress passed no such law regarding citizenship then the Supreme Court isn’t allowed to do it. Wouldn’t that then make the ruling illegal and invalid? Reply Madi says: April 24, 2011 at 5:17 pm so in shorter terms: Subject to the Jurisdiction means “Not owing alliance to anyone?” Reply Phosgood says: April 22, 2011 at 10:22 pm “President Obama”s issue is also compounded by the fact that the qualification for President of the US is NOT just that he is a citizen. If he, or anyone, was naturalized, he is not eligible for the position. It’s just that simple! Reply Phosgood says: April 22, 2011 at 10:12 pm “We have for generations followed the belief that a child born in the US is a US citizen”……. Only if the parents owe no allegance to a foriegn nation. “WE” have got confused since the Immigration Acts of 1964/65. Reply Phosgood says: April 22, 2011 at 10:04 pm Learn to spell “Constitution” before you share your wishes of it with us! Reply Douglas Washington says: April 21, 2011 at 8:24 pm Applying the information in this article to President Obama would seem to indicate that the relevant item on his birth certificate would not be place of birth, but the nationality of his father. Since his father returned to his country of origin, it is unlikely that he gave up his allegiance to that country. Reply hublot says: March 18, 2011 at 11:07 pm “every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” Interesting to find Bingham stating natural born citizens are defined by the allegiance of the parents. This actually makes more sense then linking natural born with native born. American law for most of our history recognized any person born of an American father in another country to be an natural born American citizen. So if mere presence on foreign soil had no bearing on the matter, why does some think it would in this country? Very strange. Reply Anonymous says: March 15, 2011 at 9:22 am the power is authorized by the contitution therefore they have the right to do it Reply IceTrey says: March 11, 2011 at 3:12 pm While within the borders of the US they are under it’s “territorial” jurisdiction but, being aliens, they are not under it’s “personal” jurisdiction. Reply Daud says: January 28, 2011 at 10:42 am Mockery of our system? It is a mockery to try to reinterpret our laws without new information or new understanding of civil rights. That is what I consider activist interpretation of our constitution. We have for generations followed the belief that a child born in the US is a US citizen. What has changed in our understanding of the constitution or human rights to warrant us changing that? When it comes to the phrase “anchor baby ” you show your pre-judgment of the issue. I have heard interviews with wealthy families from foreign countries that purposely come here to give their child dual citizenship. But have seen very little evidence that poor illegal immigrants come to this country with the idea that their child’s being born here will somehow give them, the parents, some right to stay here. As of now when parents are brought before the immigration system they have the choice of giving up their parental rights and the child staying in the US while they are sent to their home country or to take the child with them until the child reaches his/her majority at which point the child as a US citizen will be allowed back in the country. Their child being an American citizen in no way changes the fact that they are here without proper documentation and must return to their home country. Reply Solon says: January 28, 2011 at 8:29 am Where does the author of this post practice constitutional law? Does he/she have a bar card? Reply Anonymous says: January 13, 2011 at 11:41 pm The dissenting 4 justices had the more accurate scholarship but were edged out for the sake of this case. Even the Majority opinion justices never dreamed it would mean what it does today. The case still required permanent residence and admittance by the US. Both of these are violated today by tourist birth citizenship and illegal aliens respectively. But these are the ones benefiting most from it. Reply Mark in Iowa says: January 8, 2011 at 2:04 pm Could someone who believes that the 14th amendment does not confer citizenship on the children of illegal aliens by the reasoning that “subject to the jurisdiction..” does not apply to them explain the following? What does it mean, as a practical matter, for a child to NOT be subject to the jurisdiction of the US? That is what you are implying, that these children are, like the children of diplomats, not subject to US jurisdiction. What does that mean exactly on a practical level? Do they have diplomatic immunity? Are they not subject to selective service? Explain please. Reply Aaron's Run says: January 5, 2011 at 6:29 pm A common mischaracterization of the debates says Senators Trumbull, Cowan and Conness suggested both the Civil Rights Bill and the Fourteenth Amendment would make children of Chinese or Mongolian parent’s citizens regardless of the condition of the parents. However, this is an erroneous conclusion because they were discussing concerns over whether “race” of the parents could play a role. They were not suggesting locality of birth alone was the sole requirement of citizenship. Yup, good point after re-reading the congressional record. Have to remember naturalization law at that point still used the word “white”. Reply RB says: January 4, 2011 at 10:55 pm The pundits who claim such a constitutional right often conveniently ignore the second clause of the 14th Amendment which clearly modifies the first by limiting birth citizenship to those whose parents are already “subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S.” Indeed in 1866, Sen. Lyman Trumbull, the author of this modifying clause (in both the 14th Amendment and the Civil Rights Act), anticipated precisely the kind of far-fetched constitutional claims now being made for birthright citizenship. Accordingly, he stated for the congressional record that the modifying clause was meant to pertain only to parents who were “not subject to any foreign power.” (In this regard, one might note that Mexico does not relinquish jurisdiction over its nationals just because they give birth to children in foreign countries.) Trumbull’s co-author, Michigan Sen. Jacob Howard, was even more specific, stating clearly and unambiguously that the automatic citizenship provision would “not include persons born in the U.S. who were foreigners, aliens …” Reply Richard Haas says: January 3, 2011 at 10:42 pm Thanks for highlighting that 1873 US Attorney General opinion since it appears that was always the governments view of birthright. The fact it was the US govt who argued Wong Kim Ark was not a citizen just reinforces this conclusion. Why the court desired to imposed the old English common law rule in Wong Kim Ark when they had it right in Elk to what “subject to the jurisdiction” means is still a mystery. Reply adsl megavnn says: December 25, 2010 at 6:35 pm Thanks for your useful article here Reply Anonymous says: December 3, 2010 at 10:23 pm Exactly! Now tell that to the pinheads handing out US birthright certificates left and right. Reply Anonymous says: November 28, 2010 at 11:04 pm your common sense is refreshing. Reply RB says: November 11, 2010 at 5:28 pm Let’s be sarcastic. When the Mexican caucus takes over DC and the Russian tourist mom wants them to grant her newborn a US passport, the Chinese treasury will deny their credit card. I think the native American and the Gringo will have a laugh and toast the good old days with a bottle of firewater made in the USA. Reply Anonymous says: November 9, 2010 at 11:38 pm I like what Gillespie posted. Whoever is the idiot who records the birth as a US citizen or produces the passport is also the problem. This unwarranted clerical abuse of the 14th by these workers is where it happens. They should all be fired or else support each of them out of their own pocket to spare the taxpayer, their choice. But the system is upside-down. Probably afraid of some activist attorneys that spin the law for their pro-illegal agenda. The other thing is the idiotic footnote by Justice Brennen in 1982 I think. expressing his opinion that the 14th doesn’t distinguish between legal and illegal, if I remember. What an idiot! What else does law do? But that ill conceived footnoted accelerated the ‘anchor baby’ tsunami ever since. There are those who would be happy with no border and no law on this issue. You can bet they don’t worry about paying the bill. This is to say nothing of the reconquista crowd who preach invasion by way of the birth canal as one female investigative reporter put it. They are quite vocal. One day the sheer weight of population will retake with politics what Mexico lost in the war against the USA a century ago. Aztlan will no longer be a myth according to these firebrands. Such treasonous sentiments are what renders our laws disrespected and defied. This passes for allegiance to the USA in the twisted thinking of their attorneys. The 14th requires political allegiance to no other power, remember. Reply Anonymous says: November 6, 2010 at 9:54 pm One of the lessons learned by the Center For Immigration Studies since the 1986 ‘Amnesty’ is that next time: # It should put heavy emphasis on the initial interview, and make sure that the burden of proof is on the applicant throughout the process, as it was not during part of the SAW program. Similarly, there should be a readily available opportunity for shaky applicants to withdraw and to get their money back if fees again fund the program. # The funding of such a program should be arranged to fully support fraud detection, not only using all the fees collected for that program, but tax funds as well, if need be. There never should be a financial incentive to the managing agency to tolerate fraud, as there was in the SAW program. 75% of illegals have committed fraud against US citizens. No one can defend that!(Though Gloria Alred might try) Some scholars say the illegal who sneaks into the USA and has a baby to be given US citizenship is a fraud! Of course fraud disqualifies the boon of the 14th Amendment. Any solution to illegal immigration should start with fraud. That would really make a dent! Reply RB says: November 6, 2010 at 4:43 pm Let me quote a survey that should be of interest: “The survey also found that more than one-third of people in Mexico (38 million) would like to live in the United States if they could. This clearly shows that the desire to come to America remains very strong in that country. This means that if there was an amnesty in the United States, a very large number of people in Mexico might come illegally in the future in the hope of qualifying for another amnesty. Another important finding of the survey is that most people in Mexico think that the 32 million Mexican-Americans in this country, most of whom were born in the United States, should give their primary loyalty to Mexico. They also think the Mexican government should represent the interests of Mexican-Americans in the United States.” They sure like to have their cake and eat it too. Or is it : They steal our pot to cook our goose. Reply Anonymous says: November 5, 2010 at 10:03 pm John, The Supreme Court has weighed in on the meaning of ‘subject to the jurisdiction’: According to the Court: “no one can become a citizen of a nation without its consent.”53 Specifically, the Court held that although the plaintiff was born in the United States, he was not granted U.S. citizenship through any treaty or statute and was consequently not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States under the 14th Amendment. The Court defined the jurisdictional requirement of the Citizenship Clause as requiring a person to be: “”¦not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction, and owing them direct and immediate allegiance.” That goes well beyond being law abiding or within the geography doesn’t it? Where does this leave the unlawful immigrants (perhaps even defiant of US authorities) who are subjects of another country which has proper claim over their newborn? These are not the ones welcomed and admitted into the USA through the front door like the Chinese RR workers of generations ago. Reply 75.80.36.143 says: November 4, 2010 at 9:28 pm Not 100%. Remember, 4 justices defended the 14th as intended. They disagreed with the decision of the other 5. The majority did not dream of the future ramifications today. Scholars suggest they were in favor of this young man and others like him as exceptions. His parents were admitted into the country unlike unwelcome illegal aliens today. Also they were permanent residents unlike tourists today. Still today these are the ones who get the vast majority of automatic citizenship for their newborn using that Supreme Court decision. Scholars call this unwarranted and too permissive. Even the 5 in the majority would never approve such abuse of the 14th today. At any one time there were over 5 million ‘anchor babies’ in U.S. public schools recently. Think of how many that adds up to over several decades. These are not properly U.S. citizens in fact. This short circuits the legal process and makes chumps of the legal immigrants. I’m not saying this due to my politics. But just from the standpoint that we all should abide by the law without spin. Reply 75.80.36.143 says: November 4, 2010 at 8:50 pm Just because the writers of the 14th had such thinking means they would punish babies? I don’t think so. Those US citizens who have a baby in another country wouldn’t think immigration law is punishing their baby to have the same citizenship of the parents. It’s the trend worldwide. The baby gets the parent’s status in the majority of the world, Mexico included. The world sees us as fools. So they take advantage. Have you been listening to TV airheads too much? Last time I heard that defense was from the Latino caucus in DC.
37 posted on 10/28/2011 12:07:09 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Designer
No, you're wrong. Try reading the law.

I have read the law and actually was bound by it in issuing passports. Section 301 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1401) obtains now. It must be amended.

No, we only need to change the administration.

You must change the law. H.R.140.IH is an attempt to do just that.

38 posted on 10/28/2011 12:09:29 PM PDT by kabar
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To: parksstp
My thought was that the US Citizenship status to anchorbabies and Tourist-Babies was a necessary evil to protect the child from ending up as “a man/woman without a country”.

So, just tell the parents not to come over here and have the kid, problem solved. Let the Mexicans handle the problem. It's not our job.

39 posted on 10/28/2011 12:13:15 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: rolling_stone

Don’t have the wording right here, but one of the dissenting justices in Wong Kim Ark stated that one of the reasons for his dissent is that the majority decision would allow a coolie to become President.

Why we need to worry about this if he is duly elected was left unstated.

As stated, the decision did not specifically address whether Wong was or was not a natural-born citizen. Since Mr. Wong wasn’t running for President, the issue was moot.


40 posted on 10/28/2011 12:13:41 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Steelfish
Read it. Learn it. Live it.


41 posted on 10/28/2011 12:14:27 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Steelfish

May I suggest de-caf?


42 posted on 10/28/2011 12:14:34 PM PDT by moose-matson (I keep it in my head)
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To: Steelfish

What you are saying is that the law as presently applied is incorrect.

That’s all fine and dandy, but it has no effect until someone gets it to the Supreme Court and a ruling to that effect is issued.

I suspect the Court would be extremely reluctant to remove many millions of citizens that have been counted as such for many decades now. In practice since the 14th Amendment, which is well over a hundred years.


43 posted on 10/28/2011 12:16:27 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Steelfish
ONLY if their parents were subject to the jurisdiction of our nation........

_______________________________

Tourists are subject to our jurisdiction while here. It is diplomats and military attaches who are not.

44 posted on 10/28/2011 12:17:05 PM PDT by moose-matson (I keep it in my head)
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To: rolling_stone
I re-read the Wong Kim Ark decision. Even though you are correct that the facts specifically addressed the child of two residents, the Court's discussion looked at the subject to the jurisdiction question and stated that unless the parents were enemy occupiers or diplomats the 14th amendment applied. While the child of illegal aliens was not directly addressed I would not expect the current or future court to go in a different direction from Wong Kim Ark decision on that matter. I think it will take a Constitutional amendment to change it.

In the meantime, the anchor baby issue is not a constitutional issue but legislative. The Immigration and Nationality Act is what states that the parents can be petitioned for by the US born child. No constitutional convention or Supreme Court order is required for Congress to say that the parents are ineligible for residence through the US child if they were here illegally when the US child was born. In other words, you can cut the line to the anchor much more easily.

45 posted on 10/28/2011 12:22:19 PM PDT by Armando Guerra
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To: Steelfish

If soetoro is reelected, we ain´t seen nothing yet.


46 posted on 10/28/2011 12:29:51 PM PDT by onedoug (lf)
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47 posted on 10/28/2011 12:38:48 PM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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To: rolling_stone
The SCOTUS only decided that children of 2 lawful permanent residents are citizens under the 14th aamendment. They did not decide if children of tempoorary visitors or persons illegally in the us were citizens .

WKA did say that the lawful presence was required in order to enjoy the benefits secured by the Constitution. This would strongly suggest that those who were not here lawfully would NOT enjoy these same benefits:

He is nonetheless an alien because of his having a commercial domicil in this country. While he lawfully remains here, he is entitled to the benefit of the guaranties of life, liberty and property, secured by the Constitution to all persons, of whatever race, within the jurisdiction of the United States.

Lawfulness is connected here toward satisfying what it means to be within the jurisdiction of the U.S.

48 posted on 10/28/2011 1:06:27 PM PDT by edge919
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To: Armando Guerra

The evident intention, and the necessary effect, of the submission of this case to the decision of the court upon the facts agreed by the parties were to present for determination the single question stated at the beginning of this opinion, namely, whether a child born in the United States, of parent of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States. For the reasons above stated, this court is of opinion that the question must be answered in the affirmative.

Illegal aliens are not under the protection of the US they are fugitives from the US. Students are not permanently domiciled in the US they are allowed entry as non-immigrats and given a specific time to depart. Obamas father was a temporary student and did depart the US before he got his butt deported, and he never would have been allowed entry if it was known he supported polygamy.

I suspect a modern court considering the immese illegal alien and anchor baby problem we have and its negative effects on the US and the position of we the people that birhtright citizenship for illegals is wrond that they would decide against it as long as the two new commies on the bench recused themselve or had their appoointments nullified. The republicans are a$$e$ for letting them get confirmed and letting Obama go unchallenged for his eligibility.


49 posted on 10/28/2011 1:12:32 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: Sherman Logan

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0169_0649_ZD.html


50 posted on 10/28/2011 1:20:00 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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