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The tax plan that's better than Cain's, Perry's or Gingrich's
Renew America ^ | Selwyn Duke

Posted on 11/02/2011 7:50:20 AM PDT by Paladins Prayer

Bold tax reform is front and center this campaign season. First Herman Cain made waves and poll headway with his 9-9-9 tax plan, which involves national 9-percent taxes on personal and corporate income and a 9-percent national sales tax. Now Rick Perry has followed suit with a 20-percent flat-tax plan, and Newt Gingrich has gone 5 better, with a 15-percent flat proposal. And these ideas certainly haven't fallen flat: tax reform is immensely popular among the Republican base.

Yet there has been criticism, too — at least of Cain's plan, the only one around long enough to be criticized. Many are concerned about giving the feds another vehicle — a sales tax — through which to fleece us. Sure, 9-9-9 sounds good, but what is to stop it from becoming 10-10-10, then 11-11-11 and ending up as 30-30-30? Yet, national sales tax or not, this threat looms with any plan; what is to stop Perry's 20 percent or Gingrich's 15 from becoming 40? Remember, the one-percent income tax sounded good, too, in 1913, but consider what it has morphed into.

So, yes, this threat exists with any plan.

That is, except one.

The plan I've been proposing for years.

(Excerpt) Read more at renewamerica.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: cain; formerdemocratperry; illegals; openborders; perry; plan; rino; tax
I think this idea is worthy of discussion. It sure would give power back to the people.
1 posted on 11/02/2011 7:50:21 AM PDT by Paladins Prayer
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To: Paladins Prayer

Another nonsenical purposal that does not address the fundmental fiscal issues but instead is merely designed to gratify author’s ego.


2 posted on 11/02/2011 7:54:29 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: Paladins Prayer

9/9/9 is 27% of the economy... of everyone..


3 posted on 11/02/2011 8:00:32 AM PDT by hosepipe
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To: hosepipe

Business pays zero taxes its all passed on as cost of doing business..
You know....... added to “the Price”...


4 posted on 11/02/2011 8:02:07 AM PDT by hosepipe
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To: Paladins Prayer

Irrelevant. The 999 plan is what’s being diecussed.


5 posted on 11/02/2011 8:02:15 AM PDT by bigbob
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To: Paladins Prayer

Like Congress is going to GIVE UP power...after they succeeded with ObamaCare in the largest ever Federal power grab?!!!


6 posted on 11/02/2011 8:02:16 AM PDT by mo
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To: hosepipe
“9/9/9 is 27% of the economy... of everyone..”

I'm not a big fan of 9-9-9 but, to be fair, you have to subtract the 15.3% payroll tax (employee's plus employer's tax rates) that Cain’s plan would eliminate.

7 posted on 11/02/2011 8:05:48 AM PDT by riverdawg
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To: Paladins Prayer
The ONLY tax plan to support. Has actual legislation in Congress. Been around for 15 years. Has not substantially changed in all that time. REPEALS the income tax. Progressive, protects the poor, rich pay more (they spend more).

YOU GET YOUR WHOLE PAYCHECK. You know, that BIG number, the GROSS amount.

No income tax, so no income tax forms to fill out. NO MORE FILING! April 15th? Just another day. No more jumping through government hoops.

Wake up America, we already have the plan. We have had it for 15 years. NOW is the time to finally pass it. Kiss the IRS goodbye.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_main

8 posted on 11/02/2011 8:12:43 AM PDT by faucetman (Just the facts ma'am, just the facts)
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To: riverdawg

[ I’m not a big fan of 9-9-9 but, to be fair, you have to subtract the 15.3% payroll tax ]

What we have would replaced by 27% for everyone..
At least “this week”(the wk 999 is enacted).. it might take a few years to get to 33/33/33...


9 posted on 11/02/2011 8:33:21 AM PDT by hosepipe
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To: Paladins Prayer

The federal government does not need MORE money...
It needs LESS money...

Reducing the amount of money going to the federal government is WHAT’s NEEDED..
NO plan to bring in the same amount of cash WILL DO!!!..

How to do that?.. Reducing the scope and size of the federal government.. simply with a meat ax..
Then immediately more money is available to use...


10 posted on 11/02/2011 8:40:32 AM PDT by hosepipe
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To: faucetman
I've heard that claim that you get your who gross income with the "Fair Tax". Under the microscope, it fails. I'm in the 28% federal/10% state bracket. The "Fair taxers" claim costs will drop because of the "embedded" income tax in the cost of doing business. That "embedded" tax comes from my gross compensation. The cost of doing business wouldn't change unless the intent is to lower my gross income. Seen from that perspective...no thanks.
11 posted on 11/02/2011 9:03:27 AM PDT by Myrddin
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To: hosepipe

In the article I posted, the author addresses all this. He says he doesn’t care how much money the feds get. I also don’t see how anyone could object to placing the taxing power int he hands of the people.

I really don’t know why I even post articles. It seems like a lot of freepers just read the title and respond to that.


12 posted on 11/02/2011 9:15:05 AM PDT by Paladins Prayer
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To: hosepipe
The federal government does not need MORE money... It needs LESS money...

I completely agree with that Hose but it will never happen for so long as we continue to abide the current income tax and the IRS!

We need to radically change the way we pay our taxes to a system FAR more worthy of FREE men!

We need a system that allow FREE men to pay their taxes in a manner that keeps him completely anonymous to the tax collector!

We need a tax system that does not allow the government to manipulate behavior and which does not foment class warfare!

We need a tax system that is not riddled with hidden taxation!

We NEED the fairtax!

13 posted on 11/02/2011 9:16:06 AM PDT by Bigun ("The most fearsome words in the English language are I'm from the government and I'm here to help!")
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To: MNJohnnie
Another nonsenical purposal that does not address the fundmental fiscal issues but instead is merely designed to gratify author’s ego.

What are you talking about? 9-9-9? Good, we finally agree.

14 posted on 11/02/2011 9:18:07 AM PDT by pgkdan (("Make what Americans buy, Buy what Americans make, and sell it to the world" Perry 2012)
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To: Bigun

[ We NEED the fairtax! ]

We need less federal government before we re-design the federal tax system..
ElSE; we have no idea of what we are trying to design..

As the federal government is reduced the taxes become less of a problem..
But we do need another way of collecting federal taxes..
I say the States should determine what (of their resources) they send to the federal government..

Making the federal government a beggar and not a chooser..

I am not adverse to two United States..
A conservative and a liberal one.. with an alliance.. of some kind..
Which one would be more successful is obvious to me..


15 posted on 11/02/2011 9:51:32 AM PDT by hosepipe
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To: MNJohnnie

I don’t know that you actually read the article. How would placing the power to tax directly in the hands of the taxpayers not address the fundamental fiscal issues? The government wouldn’t be ABLE to raise taxes. Only propose them.


16 posted on 11/02/2011 9:54:56 AM PDT by Paladins Prayer
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To: Myrddin

“The People” pay ALL TAXES... business pays none..
Tax to Business is just a cost.. passed on..

The feds do nothing beneficial that the States don’t already do..
Yet they erase a good percentage of the economy from reality..

They are a black hole for money resources even territory..
The feds erase much land from the States.. within the States..

The feds OWN most of Alaska already.. not Alaskans but the feds.. OWN IT..
This is obscene... in any sense..

even D.C. should be “loaned” to the feds.. with rent..


17 posted on 11/02/2011 10:00:35 AM PDT by hosepipe
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To: hosepipe
You didn't address my objection. The claim that I will get my entire gross while concurrently claiming business costs will drop because the taxed portion of my gross is "built into" the cost of items produced by the business. The cost built into the product is from my gross. The taxes are extracted from my gross earnings. The only way you get a lower product price is to lower my gross pay. There will be some minor savings from payroll processing compliance costs. It will make little difference to the bottom line. Please address how the "embedded cost" of income tax claimed by the "fair taxers" is going to magically disappear.
18 posted on 11/02/2011 10:51:16 AM PDT by Myrddin
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19 posted on 11/02/2011 11:03:51 AM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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To: Myrddin

[ Please address how the “embedded cost” of income tax claimed by the “fair taxers” is going to magically disappear. ]

The fair taxers eliminate income tax.. more or less..
Im not happy with the “fair tax”...
Even though its better than the current system..

Im for States sending contributions to the federal government..
eliminating any federal government forced taxation..


20 posted on 11/02/2011 1:05:50 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: Myrddin

I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “...claiming business costs will drop because the taxed portion of my gross is “built into” the cost of items produced by the business.”

What I do know is that the proprietor of the business would no longer be paying a matching 7.65% of your salary in payroll taxes and ALL of corporate taxes and all of the costs of compliance currently embedded in the prices of the product(s) or service(s) he sells would be removed under the fairtax. Of course the price drops made possible by this would be much more modest for items with short manufacturing supply chains than those with longer manufacturing supply chains.

The corporate income tax and all the attendant costs of dealing with it are, in practice, nothing more than a VAT. They get passed on from the miner in the price of the ore he sells to the smelter. The smelter passes them on to the steel mill etc. etc until product or service is finally sold to the retail consumer who finally pays them all.


21 posted on 11/02/2011 3:22:30 PM PDT by Bigun ("The most fearsome words in the English language are I'm from the government and I'm here to help!")
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To: Bigun

So the only savings is the social security contribution from the employer coming off the bottom line. Any corporate income taxes are always priced into the final product. Eliminating corporate income tax would allow a lower end product price.


22 posted on 11/02/2011 9:30:36 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin

You got it but please note that even if a company ends up not owing a dime in corporate income taxes they will still have incurred a great deal of costs in just dealing with the law! These to find their way into prices and would would also go away with the advent of the fairtax!


23 posted on 11/03/2011 10:21:00 AM PDT by Bigun ("The most fearsome words in the English language are I'm from the government and I'm here to help!")
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To: Bigun
I agree that the reduction of compliance costs would be valuable. My company simply outsourced payroll to ADP. The Fair Tax would changed ADP's business model a little. Currently, I'm also subject to state income tax that is collected for every state where I work 20 or more days in the calendar year. This year, I'm compelled to pay CA and ID state income tax (proportionately). I may be hit with NE as well depending on whether a pending business trip exceeds 20 days. A big boon for Intuit as they sell me two or 3 state tax packages.
24 posted on 11/03/2011 1:44:52 PM PDT by Myrddin
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