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Posted on 11/02/2011 9:26:01 AM PDT by Kevmo
Not worth the keystrokes, etc.
T4BTT
Any smart investor will require a viable business plan, and if they are in the US, a history of filings with the SEC. Buyer beware.
Kevmo, let’s make this sporting:
I propose we put a little one to one wager on this. The wager is this:
It’s 1:1, loser pays in winner’s name, a $100 donation to Freerepublic.
***I had a whole thread set up for discussing bets and all that, encouraging others and myself to put your money where your mouth is.
The thread was pulled.
How do we get Naysayers & Seagulls to put up or ... - Free Republic
How do we get Naysayers & Seagulls to put up or shut up? ... I would just like to
see the seagulls put their money where their mouth is. I did, 2 ...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/2780851/posts
I am curious. Why would you link us back to this post?
To: Kevmo
Knock off the personal attacks and seagull nonsense.
54 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 6:38:43 PM by Admin Moderator
T4BTT
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62
It appears that a relatively innocuous post responding to you was pulled.
This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.
55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies | Report Abuse]
Whether Dr Rossi is related to Andrea Rossi has nothing to do with LENR.
Suggesting people do their due diligence has nothing to do with LENR.
Not worth the keystrokes, pulled posts. You know the rest.
T4BTT
Not worth the keystrokes, pulled posts. You know the rest.
T4BTT
You're obviously using keystrokes, regardless, and your posts won't get pulled if you abide by FR rules.
T4BTT
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62
It appears that a relatively innocuous post responding to you was pulled.
This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.
55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies | Report Abuse]
With the majority of Freepers, yes. With trolls, no.
Are you a betting man? revisited
I was just thinking about this again this morning. What would it take to end the controversy? A friendly bet? Something that would satisfy even the most hard core skeptic? How could you arrange this?
There’s somebody I won’t name who might be interested in seeing, but not necessarily betting, on a possibility of just testing this thing under certain conditions. One that might satisfy him would be to collect the water that goes through the E-cat, and then measure the heat in it and its mass. This would take place after shutdown.
I checked the amount going through the E-cat on the Oct 6 test. The rate was .91 g per sec. That figures out to 3276 g or 3.276 liters per hour. Multiply that by 8 hours for a test and you get 26.208 liters for an entire test. The idea is to insulate it so that it would keep its heat throughout. Such a container would not be terribly big. It could be insulated and a small pump installed that could keep the water mixed.
One problem is that the water is actually steam, so it has to be cooled down a little before going into the container. To do that, just repeat that part of the test that was done on Oct 6th. Run it through some heat exchangers until it got below the boiling point, then let it go into the container. Then you can measure the heat from that process, plus the remaining heat in the container in order to measure all of the heat generated during the test.
A second problem is from the secondary water source. I’m thinking of making this a small scale demo so that we won’t have to use much hardware. That means cooling this water down too so that it doesn’t get too hot.
In order to do this, just set up a radiator, such as one that you may see in a car. This can cool down the water so that you can recirculate it over and over again. We are measuring the delta t at the heat exchanger, so it doesn’t have to be any one set temperature. Just as long as the difference is such that it can cool down the steam coming off the E-cat.
In the Oct. 6th test, the rate of flow on the secondary heat exchange was 640 liters per hour. That would require a pretty large container. In order to avoid that, the radiator can be called upon to cool the water back down. Perhaps a fan that blows through the radiator would be helpful as well. Perhaps at this point, you could limit the amount of water at the secondary to about 80 liters, or about the size of a 20 gal barrel.
At 640 liters per hour, it would circulate the complete contents of the barrel 8 times every hour. This means that it has about 8 minutes to cool down after going through the radiator. This may be enough to keep it cool. The return could come in at the top and be drawn from the bottom. It would first go through the radiator and then empty back into the barrel. You would need a pump that could pump at that rate for that long. Probably no big deal.
In terms of equipment, you now have 3 20 gal barrels, two of them filled with water. One of these is to go through the E-cat, and one would go through the heat exchanger. The third is to collect the water and measure its temperature at the end of the test. It could be already half full, since you are not going to use all of that one barrel. This third barrel will be fully insulated and have a pump to recirculate the water so that it always well mixed.
The location of the test should be remote in order to eliminate the possibility of any hidden energy source.
To test remotely, you need to be far away from the grid. That means a portable generator which can power up the E-cat device until it reaches self sustain mode. The generator will need to run the pumps and so forth. Such a generator wouldn’t be all that big. It just needs to be big enough to do this task, which isn’t all that demanding.
All of this equipment could fit into a van, I would estimate. The generator, the 3 barrels, the pumps, the control equipment and the E-cat unit itself. None of these items are all that big. It shouldn’t be too demanding a task to get it all into a van.
Take the van out into the countryside, and set up the equipment. Run the test. Take the measurements and see who’s right.
The costs? You may be able to rent some of this stuff, so you won’t have to buy it. It shouldn’t be terribly expensive.
The last part may be the most difficult. Getting an E-cat to test. That may mean buying one. Who would want to buy one of these things? Not me. Rossi wants 2k for each kilowatt. A 2.7 killowatt device would cost 5400 bucks. You would need to buy one and set the sucker up and so forth. The test could run in the thousands of dollars. Then you would have to have a way to judge who won the bet.
If enough people wanted to, they could set up the scenario and share the expense. The losers would end up paying for the test.
Let’s say it would cost 10 grand to buy an E-cat and set it up. If you can get enough people to get in on the bet, you may be able to cover that cost by a factor of two. Then you would need even money on the bet.
Twenty grand may do it. Ten grand to buy the E-cat and set it up. Ten grand purse to pay the winners and make it a no lose if you win. The losers lose their ten grand.
That is why I recommend the loser pays Free republic $100.00, that way the money goes to a good cause.
Sooner or later, there is going to be a test that we can agree on and base the bet on that, to give money to Rossi so we validate his device, I think crack would be a safer bet.
WW, you said, Enrico Fermi was able to determine the yield of the Trinity test to within 5%?? with just a stopwatch and confetti? First of all, really, you're mentioning Enrico Fermi and Rossi in the same breath? Let's see, Enrico Fermi was a real physicist with a real degree. Now, you may think what Rossi has done may elevate him to Fermi's status, that remains to be seen. Besides, this is the 21st century, Firmi's method worked for then but you wouldn't use it now, would you stand outside a nuclear blast?
Has anyone seen a voltage and current meter on that 500KW generator that was hooked up? He should also use DC to power his heaters so we know he's not futzing with A/C power factor, no, I don't believe, now that he is selling shares, I think I see the scam now.
One other thing, I thought the Oct 28th test was at Rossi's factory, now I've read it took place at the University of Bologna, an appeal to authority, how nice.
Finally, again, to the challenge, what and who would we consider as a valid test?
I can guarantee you I never said any such thing, on ANY thread involving "cold fusion".
"WW, you said, Enrico Fermi was able to determine the yield of the Trinity test to within 5%?? with just a stopwatch and confetti? First of all, really, you're mentioning Enrico Fermi and Rossi in the same breath? Let's see, Enrico Fermi was a real physicist with a real degree. Now, you may think what Rossi has done may elevate him to Fermi's status, that remains to be seen. Besides, this is the 21st century, Firmi's method worked for then but you wouldn't use it now, would you stand outside a nuclear blast?
Sorry dude, you got the wrong guy. I have mentioned Enrico Fermi not at all. My statement was that you don't need huge amounts of fancy equipment to do good science (which is perfectly true). And I said that one could perfectly characterize Rossi's reactor with two thermometers, a barometer and a beaker. But I was wrong....you also need a stopwatch.
"One other thing, I thought the Oct 28th test was at Rossi's factory, now I've read it took place at the University of Bologna, an appeal to authority, how nice.
I'd love to know where you read that. The photos and videos show an obvious industrial park facility. I seriously doubt that a centuries old university looks anything like that.
Might I suggest you go and have a LARGE cup of coffee, and try again.
It is early, see, that's what I get for combining two posts into one, the one to you was only about Fermi and nothing else.
Where's my coffee...
Wait a second, you want me to contribute money to give to Rossi?
***That would settle it. You buy one, you prove it’s a fraud. Simple. You get your money back by having made a name for yourself as a debunker, etc.
WW, you said, Enrico Fermi was able to determine the yield of the Trinity test to within 5%?? with just a stopwatch and confetti?
***Yes, that is the case.
First of all, really, you’re mentioning Enrico Fermi and Rossi in the same breath?
***One brought us “death, the destroyer of worlds” and the other appears to have brought us a new energy source that would SAVE lives, not take them.
Let’s see, Enrico Fermi was a real physicist with a real degree. Now, you may think what Rossi has done may elevate him to Fermi’s status, that remains to be seen.
***Here you are arguing personalities rather than scientific data.
Besides, this is the 21st century, Firmi’s method worked for then but you wouldn’t use it now, would you stand outside a nuclear blast?
***Invalid analogy. Comparing the known past to the unknown.
Has anyone seen a voltage and current meter on that 500KW generator that was hooked up?
***Argument from silence.
He should also use DC to power his heaters so we know he’s not futzing with A/C power factor, no, I don’t believe, now that he is selling shares, I think I see the scam now.
***He’s selling 1MW plants. He MIGHT sell shares down the road.
One other thing, I thought the Oct 28th test was at Rossi’s factory, now I’ve read it took place at the University of Bologna, an appeal to authority, how nice.
***Majoring on the minors. This detail wouldn’t turn the tide one way or the other.
Finally, again, to the challenge, what and who would we consider as a valid test?
***The valid test is to pick someone we both trust to whatever decision is to be made. For instance, we could have had a bet prior to Oct 28 that the test would be postponed. There are a lot of places to hang your hat.
Why would it drive us detractors bonkers? If anything, it supports our case. Rossi is going to do a public issue? Quelle surprise.
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