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Was Herman Cain against a national sales tax before he was for it?
Hotair ^ | 11/06/2011 | Ed Morrissey

Posted on 11/06/2011 6:11:14 PM PST by SeekAndFind

We've steered away from this question for some time now, since so many other current events have seized the news cycle, but Herman Cain had a fairly long history of pontificating on the radio and writing editorial pieces before he began his current run for the presidency. When you generate that much material, you're bound to leave behind a few nuggets for your opponents to find. The case in point today, however, if a fairly glaring one. Highlighted by Doug Mataconis at Outside the Beltway, it’s noted that Mr. Cain may have written passionately about an idea which runs directly against one of the cornerstones of his platform.

I’ve noted before that Herman Cain’s history as a radio talk show host, public speaker, and op-ed columnist was likely to come back and bite him at some point. You simply cannot engage in a long career of speaking off the top of your head on various issues without saying something at some point that is going to annoy someone, or prove to be somewhat embarrassing to you should you ever decide to run for public office…

On November 21st, 2010 in a column at website call The New Voice, Herman Cain wrote this about a proposal made by the Simpson-Bowles Commission

The piece in question seems fairly damning in terms of the political dog and pony show. It has to do with the idea of a national sales tax, which as I’m sure you will recall, is one leg of his 9-9-9 plan.

The worst idea is a proposed national sales tax, which is a disguised VAT (value added tax) on top of everything we already pay in federal taxes…

First, we have a spending problem in Washington, D.C. not a revenue problem. The Commission claims their goal is to reduce the deficits by $4 trillion over the next decade. The task force says its plan would save $6 trillion by 2020. It’s sort of like dueling promises that would never happen, because when has a proposed cut in Washington D.C. ever produced the intended savings over 10 years? Never!

Even worse is reason number two: In every country that has established a VAT with the promise of reducing their national debt, the VAT has eventually gone up or expanded on top of the existing tax structure. After discovering many of the tax grenades in the recently passed health care deform bill, which is already driving costs up and access down, it would be real easy for an overzealous bureaucrat to insert the language in the legislation “national retail and wholesale” tax.

It goes on from there in great detail, but I’ll leave it to you to read for yourselves. Essentially, it certainly appears to undermine one of the major aspects of his 9-9-9 plan. (Not coincidentally, the same one which his primary opponents, including both Perry and Romney have criticized at great length during the early debates.) In fact, the argument he makes in this editorial regarding the government eventually raising the tax is precisely the point his critics are making today. And this isn’t some dusty, musty piece from ancient history. It’s from last year. This not only calls into question Cain’s own commitment to his tax reform plan, but puts in play a “flip-flop” issue, which one certainly doesn’t need when running against Romney for frontrunner status.

This is only one item from the vast library of recorded radio shows and writings by Herman Cain. The media hasn’t had nearly enough time to dredge through the entire stash since he achieved frontrunner status. For the present they seem content to settle for the sexual harassment and campaign finance allegations which currently dominate the news. If Cain survives those with strong poll numbers, look for more nuggets like this to emerge over time.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Political Humor/Cartoons
KEYWORDS: 999; hermancain; salestax
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1 posted on 11/06/2011 6:11:17 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

He was in favor of the ‘Fair Tax’.


2 posted on 11/06/2011 6:12:18 PM PST by Perdogg
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To: SeekAndFind

a national sales tax is unconstitutional. cain should be against it.


3 posted on 11/06/2011 6:14:24 PM PST by Founding Father (The Pedophile moHAMmudd (PBUH---Pigblood be upon him))
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To: SeekAndFind
On M, W, & F he is for it.

On T, T, & S he is against it.

Sunday is his day of rest.

4 posted on 11/06/2011 6:14:36 PM PST by lonestar (It takes a village of idiots to elect a village idiot.)
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To: SeekAndFind
"The worst idea is a proposed national sales tax, which is a disguised VAT (value added tax) on top of everything we already pay in federal taxes…

Reading with comprehension is your friend. Cain's 999 national sales tax is not added to the current tax model. This is the kind of logic I expect from the DNC, for whom a sincerely misinformed statement is the same as a lie.

5 posted on 11/06/2011 6:15:08 PM PST by william clark (Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: SeekAndFind

I wish people would learn the difference between a sales tax and VAT.


6 posted on 11/06/2011 6:15:52 PM PST by Perdogg
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To: SeekAndFind

I’m in favor of replacing the income tax gradually with a national sales tax.

I believe the worst thing we’ve done is to let politicians control our income.

This must change if we are to regain our competitiveness and our freedom.


7 posted on 11/06/2011 6:18:55 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Perdogg

Do you pay both at time of purchase?


8 posted on 11/06/2011 6:19:22 PM PST by lonestar (It takes a village of idiots to elect a village idiot.)
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To: SeekAndFind

He was opposed to VAT. Those who do not understand the difference between VAT and Sales Tax are stupid.


9 posted on 11/06/2011 6:19:51 PM PST by JimWayne
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To: Perdogg

I’m in favor of the Fair Tax.

I’ve promoted it as long as I’ve been on FR.

Some conservatives still don’t appear to realize surrendering our income to the federal government has put us on the road to insolvency.

We don’t know much government costs us. If we paid a sales tax, that cost would be reflected in everything we buy.

And I for one, would want to know if the price of government is worth it. An intelligent adult should know that government is not free.

Keep that in mind when politicians tell you a new program will cost you next to nothing. A sales tax would keep them honest.


10 posted on 11/06/2011 6:23:32 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

Bingo. Flat national sales tax is the way to go.


11 posted on 11/06/2011 6:24:56 PM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: lonestar
With a sales tax you pay the tax only for a finished product, a VAT you pay the accumulated value of that good.
12 posted on 11/06/2011 6:25:37 PM PST by Perdogg
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To: SeekAndFind

This is a purposeful selective editing. He was NOT talking about the sales tax in 9-9-9. It amazes me when someone claims contradiction when within the same article it is VERY clear exactly what Herman Cain was talking about. Read the whole thing. This is more about the lack of comprehension of writer than any contradiction by Cain. Its like the stupid ‘Herman doesn’t know China has Nukes’ which is simply a lie Cain had not only written about nuclear proliferation as far back as 2005 and it was easy to find his very intelligent articles on China. The links can be found below.

http://www.rpvnetwork.org/profiles/blogs/hermain-cain-the-man-you-may-not-know

I’m getting really tired of what is becoming a dishonest narrative suggesting Cain must be stupid. They did the same thing to Palin, Angle and tried it with Paul and Rubio. The man is accomplished beyond anything comparable to these snide small jerks and for them to try to tear him down in such a way is pathetic.

If you have a candidate you think is great make your damn case and quit being a coward trying to tear down a man who came from nothing and through his hard work and intelligence rose further than most of us will in a lifetime. Call him anything but calling him stupid or unelectable especially having Obama in the white house is just stupid.


13 posted on 11/06/2011 6:25:46 PM PST by Maelstorm (Better to keep your enemy in your sights than in your camp expecting him to guard your back.)
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To: JimWayne

14 posted on 11/06/2011 6:25:56 PM PST by justsaynomore (Pray for Herman Cain)
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To: lonestar

Nope, read the books to find out how like those of us who made the effort and invested in our own education.


15 posted on 11/06/2011 6:27:49 PM PST by mazda77 (and I am a Native Texan)
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To: SeekAndFind

Here is Cain’s article in full:

Don’t be VAT stupid
November 21, 2010
By Herman Cain

There’s one message from the 2010 elections that many so-called policy makers, political elites and analysts did not hear. Namely, the American people are not as uninformed and stupid as they think we are.

President Obama’s Debt Commission and the Bipartisan Policy Center’s Debt Reduction Task Force have both floated its ideas for reducing our nation’s runaway national debt. As CNNMoney.com reports, both sets of ideas echo each other in broad strokes. And both sets of ideas could confuse and confound the leaves off a tree.

These ideas are a long way from becoming law, but they are generating, as intended, much discussion about the merits of each idea.

The worst idea is a proposed national sales tax, which is a disguised VAT (value added tax) on top of everything we already pay in federal taxes.

Here are three of the biggest reasons the national retail sales tax is the worst idea on the table.

First, we have a spending problem in Washington, D.C. not a revenue problem. The Commission claims their goal is to reduce the deficits by $4 trillion over the next decade. The task force says its plan would save $6 trillion by 2020. It’s sort of like dueling promises that would never happen, because when has a proposed cut in Washington D.C. ever produced the intended savings over 10 years? Never!

Even worse is reason number two: In every country that has established a VAT with the promise of reducing their national debt, the VAT has eventually gone up or expanded on top of the existing tax structure. After discovering many of the tax grenades in the recently passed health care deform bill, which is already driving costs up and access down, it would be real easy for an overzealous bureaucrat to insert the language in the legislation “national retail and wholesale” tax.

For the liberal naysayers who say that would not happen, you lose! Just look at the Social Security system, Medicare and Medicaid. Over the years since their inception, taxes have gone up, benefits have gone down and they are still on a path of insolvency.

Both the Commission and the Task Force say very little about how costs would be contained, because that’s the real big bodacious problem. Even if their plans could achieve their stated goals over the next 10 years, the current administration and Congress have increased spending nearly $4 trillion in the last two years. And the only hope that it will slow down is the new change of control in the House of Representatives.

Giving the administration and Congress another tool to tax us and confuse us is like giving an alcoholic a key to the liquor store with no supervision, only to discover that he locks the door after he is safely inside.

A national retail sales tax on top of all the confusing and unfair taxes we have today is insane! It gives the out-of-control bureaucrats and politicians in denial one more tool to lie, deceive, manipulate and destroy this country.

The third reason the national retail sales tax on top of all the taxes we already pay is a bad idea, is that there is already proposed legislation that replaces all of the federal taxes we pay. It replaces all current revenue. It supercharges our national economic growth, and puts the power of taxation back into the hands of the people who spend their money.

It’s called the Fair Tax. It’s as easy to understand as ABC!

That’s the problem. It’s fair. It is simple and understandable. But the politicians and bureaucrats do not want to give people more control of their own money. That’s why even though the legislation has been introduced in every session of Congress since 1999, it has not advanced.

People are not stupid. Maybe they will hear us in 2012.


16 posted on 11/06/2011 6:28:45 PM PST by justsaynomore (Pray for Herman Cain)
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To: justsaynomore

Every state has a sales tax. States that don’t have an income tax receive revenue from a sales tax. A federal sales tax would simply apply nationwide what already exists on the state level.


17 posted on 11/06/2011 6:28:56 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: william clark

Exactly. Within this same article Cain clearly details what he means. He leaves no room for misunderstanding. This just shows what levels our mentally challenged contingent will go to. It’s not Cain’s fault their candidates can’t walk and chew gum at the same time.


18 posted on 11/06/2011 6:28:59 PM PST by Maelstorm (Better to keep your enemy in your sights than in your camp expecting him to guard your back.)
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To: SeekAndFind

he piece in question seems fairly damning in terms of the political dog and pony show. It has to do with the idea of a national sales tax, which as I’m sure you will recall, is one leg of his 9-9-9 plan.

The worst idea is a proposed national sales tax, which is a disguised VAT (value added tax) on top of everything we already pay in federal taxes…

First, we have a spending problem in Washington, D.C. not a revenue problem. The Commission claims their goal is to reduce the deficits by $4 trillion over the next decade. The task force says its plan would save $6 trillion by 2020. It’s sort of like dueling promises that would never happen, because when has a proposed cut in Washington D.C. ever produced the intended savings over 10 years? Never!

Even worse is reason number two: In every country that has established a VAT with the promise of reducing their national debt, the VAT has eventually gone up or expanded on top of the existing tax structure. After discovering many of the tax grenades in the recently passed health care deform bill, which is already driving costs up and access down, it would be real easy for an overzealous bureaucrat to insert the language in the legislation “national retail and wholesale” tax.

WELL WELL, SEEMS HE REALLY LIKES THE vat TAX NOW THAT HE HAS PROPOSED THAT ALONG WITH HIS SALES TAX.


19 posted on 11/06/2011 6:29:49 PM PST by marty60
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To: justsaynomore

I would like to see the federal tax system become like the tax systems in AK, FL, NH, SD, TN, TX and WY. They are states that have NO state income tax.

They do have a sales tax though.


20 posted on 11/06/2011 6:32:00 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Perdogg
He was in favor of the ‘Fair Tax’.

He still is. 9-9-9 is the gateway to the Fair Tax.

21 posted on 11/06/2011 6:32:36 PM PST by Mygirlsmom ("Get ready for an aberration of historic proportions" ...H Cain.."to correct the last one" MGM)
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To: JimWayne

“The worst idea is a proposed national sales tax, which is a disguised VAT (value added tax) on top of everything we already pay in federal taxes.” Herman CAIN


22 posted on 11/06/2011 6:32:36 PM PST by marty60
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To: marty60; Jim Robinson

999 is NOT A VAT

Fair Tax is NOT A VAT

You need to stop spreading this misconception.


23 posted on 11/06/2011 6:33:38 PM PST by justsaynomore (Pray for Herman Cain)
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To: justsaynomore

Everyone needs to watch:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/CainsTa


24 posted on 11/06/2011 6:34:09 PM PST by justsaynomore (Pray for Herman Cain)
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To: justsaynomore

“The worst idea is a proposed national sales tax, which is a disguised VAT (value added tax) on top of everything we already pay in federal taxes.” Herman CAIN


25 posted on 11/06/2011 6:35:10 PM PST by marty60
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To: marty60

There a different between a sales tax and a VAT. Let me explain for you:

A sales tax, the consumer pays the tax once, on purchase. This is is the way it works with your state sales tax.

A VAT on the one hand, is a tax imposed at multiple points from the manufacturing stage to the end consumer. This is the way it works in most of the world.

I favor a national sales tax, the Fair Tax as Herman Cain does. I do not favor a VAT.

Simple and straight.


26 posted on 11/06/2011 6:35:10 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: mazda77

Who ask you?


27 posted on 11/06/2011 6:36:37 PM PST by lonestar (It takes a village of idiots to elect a village idiot.)
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To: goldstategop

See my post at #14


28 posted on 11/06/2011 6:37:39 PM PST by justsaynomore (Pray for Herman Cain)
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To: Founding Father

Oh, please.

From 1791 to 1802, the United States government was supported by internal taxes on distilled spirits, carriages, refined sugar, tobacco and snuff, property sold at auction, corporate bonds, and slaves. The high cost of the War of 1812 brought about the nation’s first sales taxes on gold, silverware, jewelry, and watches.


29 posted on 11/06/2011 6:38:15 PM PST by Politicalmom
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To: Maelstorm

They understand. They are just purposely trying to make Cain look bad. It’s the same handful of FReepers over and over.


30 posted on 11/06/2011 6:39:26 PM PST by EEGator
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To: marty60

31 posted on 11/06/2011 6:39:46 PM PST by justsaynomore (Pray for Herman Cain)
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To: goldstategop

All I’m posting is Cains statements. They aren’t mine.
but here is remarks from some other guy.:
“The potential dangers of a VAT tax were described in a recent article by Dean Clancy....

A VAT is a form of national sales tax that is collected at every stage of the process from the initial sale of raw materials to a manufacturer to the final sale of a finished product to an end-consumer. It’s the most insidious of all taxes, because it is built into the price of everything and consumers can’t see how much of the price is due to the tax. When taxes rise, prices rise, but consumers mistakenly assume that’s just market forces at work. Politicians love a VAT: it lets them take a lot more money out of our wallets. And VATs usually exist side by side with income taxes, not in lieu of them. Taxpayers should hate VATs for the same reasons politicians love them.

Politicians love “new revenue streams”, and once they get opened up they rarely ever get closed.”


32 posted on 11/06/2011 6:40:36 PM PST by marty60
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To: marty60

What VAT tax? What 999 does is reduce the income tax to a flat 9% and totally eliminates the social security and the payroll taxes and other taxes as well.

Watch, listen and try to comprehend:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/CainsTa


33 posted on 11/06/2011 6:41:46 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Rebellion is brewing!! Impeach the corrupt Marxist bastard!!)
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To: JimWayne

He was opposed to VAT. Those who do not understand the difference between VAT and Sales Tax are stupid.

Well, then you just called Herman Cain stupid, and also you can’t read. Cain said himself:

“The worst idea is a proposed national sales tax, which is a disguised VAT (value added tax) on top of everything we already pay in federal taxes..”

Note he himself equates a national sales tax (which is what he is now proposing) with being a disguised VAT tax, equating the two. So, either you need new glasses, or you are blinded by your hero worship of Cain, and don’t want to see what he actually said himself. Mr. Flip Flopper, it appears.


34 posted on 11/06/2011 6:42:31 PM PST by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: EEGator

It drives me crazy. If they don’t like his ideas then fine lets debate them but we put up with enough of this crap from the left without this from those who are supposed to be our allies.


35 posted on 11/06/2011 6:44:07 PM PST by Maelstorm (Better to keep your enemy in your sights than in your camp expecting him to guard your back.)
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To: flaglady47

Read post 16 which is the WHOLE article Cain wrote.

Cain is talking about a VAT. A sales tax CAN be a VAT if it is ADDED ON TOP OF OTHER TAXES. VAT stands for Value Added Tax. That is ADDED.

Cain’s tax is a REPLACEMENT tax. It is not ADDED. It is a REPLACEMENT.

When you read the whole article you see this because he is talking about the Fair Tax which is like 999. It is a REPLACEMENT tax. Not an ADDED tax.

Got it?


36 posted on 11/06/2011 6:47:29 PM PST by justsaynomore (Pray for Herman Cain)
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To: Maelstorm

It will be over once Captain Goodhair drops out. The irony is that they are so annoying that they are probably driving people on the fence away. You can’t fix stupid.


37 posted on 11/06/2011 6:47:40 PM PST by EEGator
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To: justsaynomore

VAT would be eliminated completely?


38 posted on 11/06/2011 6:51:54 PM PST by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: EEGator

Yeah I agree entirely. I’ve seen this before. I’m just glad it doesn’t seem to be working this time. America may not be fully awake but it is no longer fully asleep and that is a big improvement in my book.


39 posted on 11/06/2011 6:54:07 PM PST by Maelstorm (Better to keep your enemy in your sights than in your camp expecting him to guard your back.)
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To: Jim Robinson

The problem is that everyone has jumped on the Sales tax,

I don’ know many people now days that can afford to have their taxes double, on supplies they buy weekly etc. Food cost have gone through the roof. I feel better about a flat tax with a balanced budget amendment and 2/3rds majority to any tax.

The bad thing is that I am worried this Committee ( which should be unconstitutional) will raise taxes and there will be nothing we can do about, it.


40 posted on 11/06/2011 6:54:25 PM PST by marty60
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To: JimWayne
This is just a talking point the anti-Cain people are using.

There is a difference between a VAT and a National Sales Tax.

I wish they would google it and understand the difference.

41 posted on 11/06/2011 6:58:01 PM PST by not2worry
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To: Maelstorm

It is a big improvement. Just don’t let the fools stress you out. Take care.


42 posted on 11/06/2011 7:00:35 PM PST by EEGator
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To: 1_Rain_Drop

999 replaces:
Income
Payroll
Death
Corporate
Investment Dividends

We currently pay embedded taxes - 22% of everything we buy - because of high corporate taxes. Current corporate rates are up to 35%. Cain’s plan REPLACES that with 9%.

Therefore those embedded taxes will decrease significantly, but there will still be residue, because businesses are not going from 35% to 0%, they are going to 9%. Then with the transition to Fair Tax, then corporate taxes go away completely.


43 posted on 11/06/2011 7:01:03 PM PST by justsaynomore (Pray for Herman Cain)
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To: SeekAndFind
"The worst idea is a proposed national sales tax, which is a disguised VAT (value added tax) on top of everything we already pay in federal taxes…"

Typical. The writer is using a boneheaded misinterpretation of Cain's words as a strawman.

  1. Cain is not proposing a VAT disguised as a sales tax.
  2. Cain is not proposing a new tax as an addition to current taxes.

44 posted on 11/06/2011 7:01:28 PM PST by UnwashedPeasant (Don't nuke me, bro)
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To: marty60

Marty60, you need to sit down and plug in your numbers to these calculators. All this plan is doing is taking taxes you don’t see and replacing them with lower rate taxes that are visible.

Income: http://raisingcain2012.wordpress.com/about/
Sales Tax: http://www.999calculator.net


45 posted on 11/06/2011 7:06:22 PM PST by justsaynomore (Pray for Herman Cain)
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To: marty60

999 reduces taxes, eliminates much of the hidden built-in tax (social security and payroll taxes, for example) and removes them from the cost structure which will lower the cost of all products and services manufactured, produced or delivered in America (or exported), spur the economy, and help put our people back to work. It doesn’t double taxes.


46 posted on 11/06/2011 7:07:36 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Rebellion is brewing!! Impeach the corrupt Marxist bastard!!)
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To: marty60
"Politicians love 'new revenue streams', and once they get opened up they rarely ever get closed."

You are right. Cain's 999 plan closes many tax revenue streams. That is why establishment politicians are anti-Cain.

47 posted on 11/06/2011 7:09:26 PM PST by UnwashedPeasant (Don't nuke me, bro)
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To: SeekAndFind

Does it really matter? as long as he is for lower taxes that is all I care about in a presidential candidate when it comes to taxes.


48 posted on 11/06/2011 7:15:40 PM PST by plain talk
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To: SeekAndFind; Perdogg; william clark; goldstategop; JimWayne; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; ...
I thought this one was cleared up long ago. He was for a national sales (fair) tax, and against a VAT tax. He said it in the April 2010 editorial which I posted recently because of this crap. He clearly knows the difference between them unlike a few idiots here.

: The cowardly tax(April 2010 Cain says he opposes a VAT and and is for a National sales tax) THE New Voice, Inc ^ | April 12, 2010 | Herman Cain

49 posted on 11/06/2011 7:22:15 PM PST by sickoflibs (Cain :"My parents didn't raise me to beg the government for other peoples money")
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To: sickoflibs

I agree. It was but old lies never die of late especially among some ‘conservatives’.


50 posted on 11/06/2011 7:24:08 PM PST by Maelstorm (Better to keep your enemy in your sights than in your camp expecting him to guard your back.)
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