Posted on 11/07/2011 9:19:06 AM PST by MissEdie
Would I get a feeling of accomplishment for that? :-)
Seriously, I've been in situations where people have felt bad for me and tried to make me feel better by throwing a match. I put a stop to it. My skill is my skill, and if I'm only good enough to get crushed, I'm doing my best. If you hand me an "accomplishment", it is meaningless.
There are ways btw to handle such situations. For example, if a team is crushing another team, that team could put in their 2nd string, or their 3rd string. They should still work hard, but now the competition level is more equal, and you aren't "giving" the other team something (in a real sense you are giving the "team" a different "team" to compete against, but it's still a competition).
What do you think would give the kid more sense of accomplishment? Being handed a ball and escorted to the end zone (why not just put him in the end zone and hand him the ball?), or running a real play and he gets tackled in the backfield but doesn't drop the ball?
I’m with you. Mentally retarded people can be taught how to be successful within the confines of their own handicaps, and in that they can be helped to lead truly fulfilling lives. It won’t happen, however, if they’re showered with empathy to the point where it appears that everyone has given up on them, and can’t conceive of them making genuine accomplishments on their own.
Special Olympics has a wide range of competition geared to the abilities of the individual participants.
I’ve been to a Special Olympic basketball tournament that was very competitive between kids with moderate cognitive disabilities.
I’ve also seen events where people race their electric wheelchairs driven with mouth controls.
As much as anything, Special Olympics is designed to encourage physical activity among a group that often deals with confined, sedentary lives.
I bet to the end of this kid's life, he'll never forget being mobbed by his teammates and the other team. He might not remember what caused him to be the center of the celebration but that moment of acceptance is meaningful beyond measure to someone who wants nothing more than to feel normal.
Well that we don't know. But on this one night; this kid had something good happen to him.
Someone did something good for a fellow human who couldn't do it for himself.
As terrible as the human race can be at times; good for these moments.
My daughter played softball in middle school. It gave her a sense of accomplishment, because she tried out, one a place on the team, and when she played, she did her best.
My son wrestled in middle school, and he never won. He was too heavy really, so he was put in the heavyweight division, but the other kids were a lot bigger. But he’d go out there, and see how long he could last before they pinned him by sitting on him mostly. And we’d cheer him on for doing his best, and for the “bravery” of facing people who were much bigger and were going to win.
Neither of them would have gotten a “sense of accomplishment” if they had been handed something. My daughter would not have enjoyed if some girl hit her the ball, and then stood in the basepath waiting for my daughter to pick up the ball, run over and tag her out. My son would not have wanted his opponent to fall down, roll over on his back, and let my son jump on him.
Now my son is working on the high school tennis team. Again, it’s a struggle, but he tried out last year, was manager when he didn’t “make” the team, but played when kids dropped out. He couldn’t win, but he worked at it. And he wants to win, so he’s taking lessons, and practicing, and getting in shape, and plans to MAKE the team this year and beat his opponents. If the opponents had realized that my son’s games last year didn’t count (since he wasn’t on the team) and had decided to throw the games, he wouldn’t be motivated now to get better.
If either had a disability such that they couldn’t possibly have played a sport, I would have helped them find something they COULD do, and taught them to do THAT the best they could, and to be proud of their accomplishments. Neither of my kids are “sports people”, I wasn’t either, just intramurals and company teams.
My son turned out to be pretty good at a musical instrument for his age at some point. But at first he didn’t work at it much, because he thought the teacher was just being nice to him, because he was big and the teacher needed someone to play one of the big bass instruments. But he worked at it anyway, and then his teacher sent him to the all-county tryouts, and my son made 1st-string all county.
Now, THAT was an accomplishment for him, and it motivated him. Not being handed stuff you didn’t earn, because people feel sorry for you.
OK, I realize that we think we are talking about a disabled child who would never understand what really happened. But that doesn’t make sense to me — if they truly don’t understand what happened, why not make something up and tell them it is an accomplishment? You don’t need to make a pretend thing during a real game, just do it in practice.
There are down’s kids who could actually play a sport passably, and be a contributer. I happen to think that things like this would make other more-aware down’s kids feel like they were being patronized.
Hey, why not find the 5ft 3 nerd in school, convince HIM to join the team, and send HIM out to get a big score in the game? He’s no more able to play the sport, and it is not HIS fault he was born with a body type that won’t let him compete. Maybe we should make a list of all the incompetent kids, and make sure all of them get some accomplishment handed to them.
I’m not faulting them for doing this. I’m saying it makes no sense to me, and I’ve seen the explanations, and I don’t buy it.
What do you think would give the kid more sense of accomplishment? Being handed a ball and escorted to the end zone (why not just put him in the end zone and hand him the ball?), or running a real play and he gets tackled in the backfield but doesn’t drop the ball?
Getting to the end zone, definitely.
Since he has Down’s, he wouldn’t be able to see the big picture of trying and being tackled, because he doesn’t have the cogitive abilities to figure it out.
If he was given the ball and was tackled, all he’d likely figure out is that they gave him a ball, so he could get tackled. Another shiat day in his life.
If it’s meaningful to him, than it’s meaningful, regardless of anybody else’s opinion on the matter.
I guess, then, you've never watched a T.V. show or movie that has a developmentaly disabled actor as a member of the cast? You're going to make the assumption that anyone with Downs Syndrome is intellectually disabled too (formerly known as mentally retarded before Obozo eliminated mental retardation by a stroke of a pen)?
Are you aware that there are Downs Syndrome actors? Would you be surprised to know that people with Downs Syndrome can hold down jobs? Raise children? I'm getting the sense on this thread there are way way too many people who don't know very much about Downs Syndrome.
“Sportsmanship” is in this case even more pronounced because it was exhibited by a team that was behind by 54 points at the time — which is excessive in the eyes of some.
Every now and again we see stories about high school teams running up the score and this is right on the borderline. Kudos to the Hilton Head coach for being willing to absorb six more points.
I kind of understand your rant, but mostly I don’t.
Way back in the day, when I played High School football, I didn’t like the fact that managers sometimes got the same letter as those of us who earned it on the field, but anyone who went to our school knew the difference between the real letter winners and the ‘fake’ ones. Now days, a lot of schools have Manager letters, academic letters, etc., which if properly identified, I have no problem with.
By and large, as long as these decisions are left up to the discression of the coaches and not mandated by a school board or something, then I think it’s great to give some of these special kids an opportunity at glory. If you’ve ever met some of these down syndrome kids, you would see how much love and compassion they bring to the kids who wouldn’t normally associate with people like that, and how much as simple thing like running for a touchdown gives them so much joy.
NO, I had 11 guys playing a sport. They knew their limitations, and CHOSE to play the sport. The other team may have THOUGHT they were being nice, but they were not. Their action was condescending, even if it was well-intentioned. I told them to play the game and let US worry about how bad we were.
There are right ways to do this kind of thing. In one soccer league I coached, if the other team got too far ahead, they would have to sit players down. Unfortunately, they also were not allowed to score. The sitting players down was an interesting approach. Sure, my team would know they were being given “a gift”, because the other team was playing short. But we also knew the kids on that team were really good players, and we weren’t. Now, we would get to see if our 6 players could beat their best 5, or 4 if it got bad enough. So it was still a competition, if those other kids still played hard.
But since they weren’t allowed to score, they’d just pass the ball around, and it was kind of a drag. I would have preferred they be allowed to score, but then sit another player down. Eventually they’d have 3 kids to our 6, and we’d score, and then they’d get a player back.
(Actually, I would have been fine without these rules, and instead balancing the teams to get good players spread out, but that’s the way it was. I also thought we could have had a rule to allow two teams, if the score got really bad, to swap players. That way we’d “self-balance” the teams, and everybody would get to play with better players for a while and see how the game worked if you could pass to your teammates and stuff).
When I played my kids in sports or games and it was clear I had an advantage, I would find ways to equalize but still have a real competition. I’d play right-handed. Or we’d play chess but I’d move in 5 seconds. The kids knew it was still a competition, but they knew they had a chance. If they started wininng, we’d change the rules a bit.
I don’t buy the gift analogy when it comes to competitive sports. The first time I beat my wife in tennis, I was “proud”. Then she explained that she was tired of beating me all the time, so had decided to see how many times she could hit the tape with the ball. Needless to say, I did not find her “gift” pleasing in any way. :-)
I don’t get the praise for the coach and other team either. What did THEY do? They were crushing their opponent. It cost them NOTHING to let the kid score. And I’m sure if anybody ever gives the team a hard time for getting 17 points scored against them, the players will be quick to remind people that the last score “didn’t count” because it was a gift to the disabled kid.
You know what a gift would be? If you were LOSING the game, but had made a deal with the other team to let their kid score a touchdown, and so you handed them the ball when you were at their 5 yard line with 10 seconds to go, in order to fulfill your promise. Then you lose the game you might have won, so that the disabled kid can have a touchdown.
Do you think any team would do THAT? This act? It’s like praising Bill Gates for handing a homeless guy $20 for a meal.
I am aware of their abilities and I assume that this team was also aware of his abilities as well.
In this case, I’m siding with the team’s decision for that reason. If the team thought that they could have had him run a position and catch the ball and go for the touchdown, I think they probably would have.
He is in class with others, then attends the special classes. The regular students treat him with respect and kindness all year long.
There was a young boy, with MS in wheelchair, he was given the special job of WATERBOY at the football games. Do you know or can imagine the esteem and joy that gave him.
I play games with my grandson, and guess what HE WINS every game. He can't follow the regular rules for most games, and makes it up as he goes, NO HARM DONE AT ALL.
In fact, when my children were very young, with games. I let them win, UNTIL I could determine they were smart enough to beat me, then they never won. lol These Special Needs children have so little in their favor. Some can't talk, some can't walk, some are just slow. What is the point in being MEAN as well.
The Special Olympics is a GREAT event. There are only First, Second and Third place ribbons, and each one of them know that and try their hardest to obtain one of those, and when they win, it is unbelivable the amount of JOY they have. My grandson came in last in a race, in fact he simply walked, lol, he didn't care, neither did we. He is always a winner in our family. NO harm done.
My grandson in know by everyone in town, and they all love him, he lights up the room when he enters, and is funny as heck.
I suppose we just need to put them back into the institution, out of sight out of mind.
What this Team did for that young man was wonderful, and didn't cost anything. True sportsmanship.
So as LRoggy pointed out in post 11, today's generation handles these things quite differently (and in my opinion better) than was the case when we were their age. There is a lot to fault the schools and today's younger people on but this is not one.
To treat people who, through no fault of their own, are less capable than most as human beings whose lives are worth something is profoundly moral. The opposite, calling them worthless masses of tissue before they're born and suitable for the "kindness" of euthanasia afterwards, is the hallmark of a Socialist (whether it calls itself Fascist or Progressive) and atheistic mindset.
WHen I have these conversations, I think about the down’s syndrome kids who are TV actors. For example, Lauren Potter on Glee (I know, just admitting I watch Glee will cement the “liberal” tag like nothing else — so sue me, I like some of the music). Now, she plays a kid with down’s, and they treat her like dirt, and it’s highly offensive.
BUT the actress? She learns her lines, she does a great job. She is accomplishing something, and she should be proud of it. Nobody handed her a part. We aren’t watching a train wreck and pretending we like it because it’s the nice thing to do.
There was also Chris Burke in “Life Goes On”.
OK, I’ll put on a different set of blinders now. Yes, a lot of DS kids can’t be that functional. They won’t ever have a TV job, or be a professional artist, or a famous architect, or a sports figure. They will live their lives in a world much different than most of us.
I still don’t see how that world is made brighter by pretending they scored a touchdown. It can only make then feel better if they have no understanding of what happened, in which case how can it make them feel better? And if they DO have any understanding, they know that the kind-hearted people essentially decided you couldn’t do anything on your own and needed to be handed an accomplishment.
SO I don’t get it. Either you understand, and are insulted, or you don’t understand, and it is meaningless.
I didn't make that assumption. I was only comparing the significance of the football play to the celebration. In my experience around special needs children, it is social acceptance that they crave. When this guy thinks about this event, it is likely that the celebration with his team and the other team is more important than the play. He was probably perfectly aware that the other team was letting him score. However, unlike Charles, he would not construe this as an insult but instead as an act of kindness and acceptance.
Interesting point about your coaching. I’ve coached youth soccer too but in a league where every player had to play at least half the game. So I couldn’t sit down my better players — they had to play.
I only had one game where I had to tell my players not to shoot — one day we scored eight goals in the first twenty minutes of a game and that was it for us for the rest of the day. There are times when you just have to put on the brakes, especially when you’re dealing with kids.
There was no doubt my team was better but to teach them about sportsmanship eventually I had no choice but to turn off the spigot.
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