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Miss. defeats life at conception ballot initiative
Associated Press ^ | Nov.8, 2011 | EMILY WAGSTER PETTUS

Posted on 11/08/2011 7:53:00 PM PST by Free ThinkerNY

JACKSON, Miss. (AP) -- Mississippi voters shot down a referendum Tuesday that would have effectively banned abortions in the state, rejecting an initiative that said life begins at conception.

The so-called personhood initiative was rejected by more than 55 percent of voters. If it had passed, it was virtually assured of drawing legal challenges because it conflicts with the Supreme Court's 1973 Roe v. Wade decision that established a legal right to abortion.

(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Mississippi
KEYWORDS: abortion; abortions; dehumanization; dehumanizing; moralabsolutes; proabortion; prolife
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1 posted on 11/08/2011 7:53:05 PM PST by Free ThinkerNY
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To: Free ThinkerNY

speechless.


2 posted on 11/08/2011 7:56:03 PM PST by balch3
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Damn. If that can’t pass in Miss. it can’t pass.


3 posted on 11/08/2011 7:56:22 PM PST by Grunthor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0heL2Czeraw)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

shame.


4 posted on 11/08/2011 7:56:39 PM PST by ken21
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To: Free ThinkerNY

It went too far, even some conservatives didn’t like it. Anytime this type of initiative comes up, it needs to me made clear that a women’s life would never be on the table, as in the case of a tubal pregnacy, for example. The Repulican governor made this same point.


5 posted on 11/08/2011 8:00:03 PM PST by independent in tx
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To: Free ThinkerNY

The majority have been brainwashed to reject basic scientific and biological facts.


6 posted on 11/08/2011 8:02:53 PM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: independent in tx

Simply establishing that life begins at conception, a scientific and biological fact, is now too extreme for “some conservatives”??

Then this country deserves to be doomed I guess.


8 posted on 11/08/2011 8:06:34 PM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: independent in tx

Totally true. Whether we like it or not, America is not absolute on abortion. Either way. Very few people support NO abortion even to save the life of the mother, just like only a few % support partial birth abortion (when it’s clearly explained and not couched in flowery liberal language).


9 posted on 11/08/2011 8:07:27 PM PST by boop ("Let's just say they'll be satisfied with LESS"... Ming the Merciless)
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To: MuttTheHoople

I believe that is a very disgusting thing to say.


10 posted on 11/08/2011 8:08:31 PM PST by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: MuttTheHoople

Somehow the PP people never, ever get accusations of racism pinned on them, even though the statistics of black vs. other fetuses killed in abortion are what they are today and even though Margaret Sanger would have fervently wanted this outcome.


11 posted on 11/08/2011 8:08:56 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (ya don't tug on Superman's cape/ya don't spit into the wind--and ya don't speak well of Mitt to Jim!)
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To: eyedigress

Irony poor much?


12 posted on 11/08/2011 8:09:40 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (ya don't tug on Superman's cape/ya don't spit into the wind--and ya don't speak well of Mitt to Jim!)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Sad. And our nationwide holocaust continues.


13 posted on 11/08/2011 8:09:50 PM PST by ReformationFan
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To: eyedigress

I totally agree.


14 posted on 11/08/2011 8:10:58 PM PST by BunnySlippers (I LOVE BULL MARKETS . . .)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
There is a mighty judgment coming to this country and it will not be pretty.
15 posted on 11/08/2011 8:11:39 PM PST by guitarplayer1953 (Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to GOD! Thomas Jefferson)
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To: independent in tx

Did the text of the proposition come short in this manner, or did its “official explanation” come short? That this is never intended to apply in cases where the life of the mother is in danger?


16 posted on 11/08/2011 8:12:01 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (ya don't tug on Superman's cape/ya don't spit into the wind--and ya don't speak well of Mitt to Jim!)
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To: BunnySlippers

It’s a disgusting FACT to NOTE!


17 posted on 11/08/2011 8:12:34 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (ya don't tug on Superman's cape/ya don't spit into the wind--and ya don't speak well of Mitt to Jim!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Tell me again how you impugn the entire state saying they “love dead black babies”. I don’t live there but this is racism at its core and nothing else.


18 posted on 11/08/2011 8:13:11 PM PST by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: balch3
Actually it's a reflection of Mississippi voters actually THINKING THROUGH the implications of personhood for a fertilzed egg.

And, fortunately, it removes one of the ways that Republicans could blow the presidential election; probably the most disappointed people in the country that this failed are Obama and his advisors, who were probably salivating at being able to run against it nation-wide.

Heck, forget the miscarriages - what about the failure of a fertilized egg to implant in the uterus, which happens constantly?

Any supporters of the Mississippi proposal - if you or or wife actually discovered that you had a fertilized egg that failed to implant, would you name it, call all your family members, and have a funeral?

And if you're not TRYING to discover all the fertilized eggs that aren't implanting, isn't that gross contempt for human life?

19 posted on 11/08/2011 8:14:07 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: eyedigress

If love is an action rather than a feeling, the statistics argue it eloquently.


20 posted on 11/08/2011 8:14:43 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (ya don't tug on Superman's cape/ya don't spit into the wind--and ya don't speak well of Mitt to Jim!)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
I voted no on the most convoluted piece of government overreach Ive seen in a long time...just went toooooooooooo far
21 posted on 11/08/2011 8:15:13 PM PST by skaterboy (Hate=Love....Love=Hate)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Truth. I remember reading that liberals were calling it “racist” when prolifers try to prevent black babies from being aborted. :?


22 posted on 11/08/2011 8:15:38 PM PST by ReformationFan
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To: MuttTheHoople

What a crappy thing to say. That type of stuff is what gives the other side ammo to pin all of us like you.


23 posted on 11/08/2011 8:15:59 PM PST by hitchwolf
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To: Strategerist

It will probably be back in modified form in 2012.


24 posted on 11/08/2011 8:16:19 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (ya don't tug on Superman's cape/ya don't spit into the wind--and ya don't speak well of Mitt to Jim!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

The post was disgusting and I stand by my reaction. Actions or Feelings do not play into it. That’s all.


25 posted on 11/08/2011 8:17:14 PM PST by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: skaterboy

Hey if you’re white it wouldn’t touch your family... much.


26 posted on 11/08/2011 8:17:57 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (ya don't tug on Superman's cape/ya don't spit into the wind--and ya don't speak well of Mitt to Jim!)
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To: eyedigress

Your reaction was a choice or a passion.

Make up your mind. Do not try to stand by one, only waffling to the other when it is convenient.


27 posted on 11/08/2011 8:18:44 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (ya don't tug on Superman's cape/ya don't spit into the wind--and ya don't speak well of Mitt to Jim!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Its pretty disgusting when being against killing babies is seen as extreme.


28 posted on 11/08/2011 8:20:13 PM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

It was a disgusting aggression of thought against an entire state that I found repugnant. Call it what you want.


29 posted on 11/08/2011 8:22:45 PM PST by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Did the text of the proposition come short in this manner, or did its “official explanation” come short? That this is never intended to apply in cases where the life of the mother is in danger?

There was no text remotely discussing this or even abortion, though the intent was clearly not to make any exceptions for the life of the mother or incest.

It was simply:

BALLOT SUMMARY: Initiative #26 would amend the Mississippi Constitution to define the word “person” or “persons”, as those terms are used in Article III of the state constitution, to include every human being from the moment of fertilization, cloning, or the functional equivalent thereof.

Which is the functional equivalent of no abortions, no exceptions, and as people realized, would probably be used to try to ban birth control pills as well. And as I've pointed out, very quickly morphs into child welfare social workers, homicide detectives, and coroners poking around people's uteruses and vaginal effusions on demand.

30 posted on 11/08/2011 8:23:27 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: GeronL

Yes sir.

Favor is being shown to those who kill the unborn. One can criticize pickily that the measure failed to deal rationally with situations such as tubal pregnancies, but that is easily enough amended. If that favor is not the action of “love” then pray tell me what is it? If MS does not love dead black babies then it loves the killers of black babies.


31 posted on 11/08/2011 8:23:42 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (ya don't tug on Superman's cape/ya don't spit into the wind--and ya don't speak well of Mitt to Jim!)
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To: Strategerist

Clearly they expected Roe v. Wade to cut a huge swath through it — they were only hoping for what bits would be left.


32 posted on 11/08/2011 8:24:36 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (ya don't tug on Superman's cape/ya don't spit into the wind--and ya don't speak well of Mitt to Jim!)
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To: Grunthor

Too bad...people have been corrupted by abortion on demand for many years. It will take Jesus to undo this.


33 posted on 11/08/2011 8:25:19 PM PST by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter")
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To: eyedigress

OK, so MS tolerates dead black babies and loves their killers.


34 posted on 11/08/2011 8:25:36 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (ya don't tug on Superman's cape/ya don't spit into the wind--and ya don't speak well of Mitt to Jim!)
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To: GeronL
Most can agree with the simple statement that ‘life begins at conception’. But the implications are far reaching and need to be addressed before this can pass.
1) Will a doctor save a life of a women with a tubal pregnancy, or will he be too afraid of murder charges?
2) If a couple has a test tube full of fertilized eggs, will they be charged with murder if they aren't all implanted?
3) Will miscarrages be investigated?

It's just not as simple as the statement about conception. I don't think the Miss initiative addressed these issues.

35 posted on 11/08/2011 8:26:16 PM PST by independent in tx
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To: skaterboy
I voted no on the most convoluted piece of government overreach Ive seen in a long time...just went toooooooooooo far

This is what happens when someone carefully sits down and thinks about a vast extension of government power like the initiative, instead of blindly supporting it without really even understanding what it states or what it means, in an effort to feel morally superior.

36 posted on 11/08/2011 8:26:42 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: Free ThinkerNY

It sounds like the anti-Obama feelings from the 2009 and 2010 elections are gone even in conservative states.


37 posted on 11/08/2011 8:27:52 PM PST by Theodore R.
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To: Strategerist

Whatever it was, it wasn’t “convoluted.” It was as doggone simple as you can get! If the results are complicated, well think of what happened when black men were emancipated. A great evil being undone results in a great confusion in the established order.

Anyhow, yes to sell this has to deal rationally with triage situations. But doesn’t MS already have a body of triage law?


38 posted on 11/08/2011 8:29:25 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (ya don't tug on Superman's cape/ya don't spit into the wind--and ya don't speak well of Mitt to Jim!)
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To: independent in tx
Here's another good though experiment.

Let's say your neighbors are married and 30, and have been married for 10 years. And don't have any children. Suspicious, no>

Isn't it your responsibility to report them to Child Protective Services on the suspicion that they've been been using birth control pills (which, as we're continually told by the fanatics, are an "abortifacient").

These people may have been guilty of killing HUNDREDS of "persons." Which clearly justifies a warrant and the police coming in and ransacking the house looking for birth control pills.

39 posted on 11/08/2011 8:30:41 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: Grunthor

Don’t agree with your assessment of Mississippi as some sort of bellwether state. Just about everyone whom I have had any dealings with from that state has been either devious, or downright criminal. Sorry.


40 posted on 11/08/2011 8:31:51 PM PST by 4Runner
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To: independent in tx

A unique person is created at conception. However, most people probably aren’t willing to give a single cell zygote the same level of protection as a baby in the 2nd or 3rd trimester. That just the way it is, whether or not we agree with it.


41 posted on 11/08/2011 8:32:02 PM PST by CitizenUSA (What's special about bad? Bad is easy. Anyone can do bad. Aspire to be good!)
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To: GeronL

I agree. This country is finished.


42 posted on 11/08/2011 8:32:18 PM PST by MachIV
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To: independent in tx

I think you are being obtuse on purpose. Do you really think any of those things would happen? In real life?


43 posted on 11/08/2011 8:33:14 PM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: Strategerist

You pro-aborts are sounding very irrational on this.


44 posted on 11/08/2011 8:34:39 PM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Whatever it was, it wasn’t “convoluted.” It was as doggone simple as you can get!

You're right - it's actually ALMOST as simple as this, which, as we know, turned out to have very few complicated implications:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

45 posted on 11/08/2011 8:34:48 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: Strategerist

The fact that even this got 40% of the votes in Mississippi means there is some hope for MS. Even as a failed trial balloon it tells a lot.

Get some sensible triage provisions in there and push the “life” criterion to the point that a heart begins to beat, and you will easily carry Mississippi.


46 posted on 11/08/2011 8:35:29 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (ya don't tug on Superman's cape/ya don't spit into the wind--and ya don't speak well of Mitt to Jim!)
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To: GeronL
You pro-aborts are sounding very irrational on this.

If you call "thinking" being irrational.

Burning building - you can carry out an unconscious 10 year old girl, or a cooler full of 10,000 frozen embryos, but not both. Which do you pick?

47 posted on 11/08/2011 8:37:42 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: Strategerist

Most of this kind of quibble has to do with triage situations, which are well understood.


48 posted on 11/08/2011 8:39:07 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (ya don't tug on Superman's cape/ya don't spit into the wind--and ya don't speak well of Mitt to Jim!)
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To: GeronL

The wording is very general and could be interpreted in many ways. Point is, as long as there’s a fear of these things happening, they have to be explained in order to sell this.


49 posted on 11/08/2011 8:39:58 PM PST by independent in tx
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To: GeronL
Do you really think any of those things would happen? In real life?

I'm just curious, do you know any occasions where government has been granted a new power or area of purview, where it didn't quickly exploit that power to the most massive level of intrusiveness possible?

50 posted on 11/08/2011 8:40:58 PM PST by Strategerist
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