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Booing the Character Issue - We should care if the accusations against Cain are true.
National Review ^ | 11/11/2011 | Mona Charen

Posted on 11/11/2011 5:56:26 AM PST by TBBT

I think I understand why the audience at Wednesday’s CNBC debate booed Maria Bartiromo’s question to Herman Cain about sexual-harassment allegations. They don’t believe there is any truth to them. They suspect, along with the candidate, that the women concerned are part of a liberal lynch mob out to smear another strong, conservative, black man. They know that accusations of sexual harassment are often nebulous and PC. If I guess correctly, they also believe — with considerable justification — that the press is less interested in the dry details of policy than in salacious tales of misbehavior. They resent being dragged into another smutty distraction.

Yes, but. As someone who was well-disposed toward Herman Cain as a public figure (if not as a potential president), I cannot help recalling the response of Democrats to revelations about Bill Clinton. “We know all about it,” one exasperated reader wrote to Newsweek magazine, “and WE DON’T CARE.” In fact, the majority of Americans did not care — and it was not our finest moment as a nation. Liberals, who professed to be appalled by the one accusation against Clarence Thomas (just one non-contemporaneous accusation — not four or five), dismissed Bill Clinton’s behavior as no big deal. Stuart Taylor noted at the time that even if everything Anita Hill said about Clarence Thomas were true, it would not be nearly as serious as the allegations against Bill Clinton. Conservatives argued at the time that character mattered. Liberals replied, in effect, that it didn’t...

Read the rest here: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/282909/booing-character-issue-mona-charen

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: cain; monacharen; nr4backstabbers; nr4racists; nr4romney; nrcontinuesracism
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I can't help but think that listening the Rush, Hannity, and Levin over the last few days has smacked a little too much of Lanny Davis and James Carville during he Clinton fiasco.
1 posted on 11/11/2011 5:56:30 AM PST by TBBT
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To: TBBT

The Democrats have defined deviancy downward. Two can play that game!


2 posted on 11/11/2011 6:00:19 AM PST by Stepan12
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To: TBBT

If bankrupting a great nation and throwing millions out of work does not disqualify a man for seeking a second term, obviously false allegations of being a cad 15 years ago should not disqualify a man for seeking a first.


3 posted on 11/11/2011 6:04:02 AM PST by muir_redwoods (Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing an idiot)
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To: TBBT

I see Mona is still pimping hard for Romney.


4 posted on 11/11/2011 6:04:34 AM PST by Buckeye Battle Cry (Mittt Romney - he lacks the courage of his absence of convictions.)
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: TBBT
I can't help but think that listening the Rush, Hannity, and Levin over the last few days has smacked a little too much of Lanny Davis and James Carville during he Clinton fiasco.

Prove the charges. With BJ Clinton they were provable. Don't make moral equivalencies. It makes you sound foolish.

6 posted on 11/11/2011 6:05:51 AM PST by frogjerk (America: Innocent until accused or considered being accused by an anonymous party)
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To: TBBT

give me a break. There was nothing here in this scandal. Other than the Gloria Allred circus act, there was never a specific accusation. You had two names come out, and both are perpetual lawsuit hounds. This was a poor attempt at cutting down a good man. At worst, he is a dog who hits on women.

Bill Clinton was an accused rapist, sexual predator, and serial adulterer with many many specific names and detailed accusations, and his henchmen brutally tore down any and all accusers and threats. Remember Ken Starr and Linda Tripp. He perjured himself lying under oath and was impeached and also disbarred. No comparison at any level.


7 posted on 11/11/2011 6:05:54 AM PST by ilgipper (Everything you get from the government was taken from someone else)
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To: muir_redwoods

Oh good grief, if the best Cain could do was try to cop a feel in a car, then he is a loser. ha ha ha
No way do I believe those bimbos.


8 posted on 11/11/2011 6:06:07 AM PST by mel (There are only 2 races decent and undecent people)
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To: TBBT

I agree. They and many others on the conservative side of things sound a lot like Bill Clinton’s defenders.

That gives me a downright creepy feeling.


9 posted on 11/11/2011 6:08:02 AM PST by RexBeach (There is no such thing as a good tax - Winston Churchill)
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To: Stepan12

Not really, there is simply no reason to believe the allegations are true. These Newt supporters are desperate to keep the issue alive.


10 posted on 11/11/2011 6:08:14 AM PST by cripplecreek (A vote for Amnesty is a vote for a permanent Democrat majority. ..Choose well.)
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To: TBBT

There is a difference between false accusations and clear evidence. Cains fiasco smells of a setup, background checks on the accusers and thier associations all lead to someone in the administration or the DNC and a personel track record of complaints on prior jobs, financial staus of the accuser or other associations. Putting Flowers and Jones aside, Clintons romp was a boy getting his finger caught in the cookie jar. Stains on the blue dress don’t lie, DNA please?


11 posted on 11/11/2011 6:08:19 AM PST by ronnie raygun (V)
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To: sklar
Dear SKlar,

Sexual harassment is merely a scheme by lawyers to act like pimps and pornographers and cash in on a woman's body. Except the pimps and pornographers are less odious because they don't claim to be hypocritically self righteous about it.

12 posted on 11/11/2011 6:08:40 AM PST by Stepan12
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To: TBBT

We should care that nothing specific might or might not have happened?
Link to a detailed allegation.


13 posted on 11/11/2011 6:08:46 AM PST by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: frogjerk

Yep, true. She kept the dress.


14 posted on 11/11/2011 6:09:59 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: TBBT
I cannot help but thinking Mona should remember that accusations are not proof of anything and scumbag journalists should not be pimping a political smear during a debate on Economics.

How about instead of making fraudulent comparisons to Clinton, Mona and the rest of the damn with faith praise squad in the GOP media try addressing the FACTS.

It is exactly this sort of article that makes people wonder what good is the GOP? They cannot even find the courage to defend their own from the Democrats.

Beginning to believe it is time for the GOP to go the way of the Whigs

15 posted on 11/11/2011 6:10:17 AM PST by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: ronnie raygun
It sounds to me like this is an attempt by Democrats to play on what they perceive the racism of Republicans to be. They are pushing the meme of the lustful-black-out-to-get-the-white-women in the hopes that Republicans will break out white sheets and crosses or sumping.

But since it is the Democrats that are doing it, they are practicing racism.

16 posted on 11/11/2011 6:11:19 AM PST by Stepan12
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To: sklar
sorry but after reading your posts all morning you are nothing but a spamming idiot. You haven’t said who you are supporting but your tactics are not driving people away from Cain. they are only illustrating what an over the top idiot you are.
17 posted on 11/11/2011 6:11:20 AM PST by statered ("And you know what I mean.")
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To: RexBeach
I agree. They and many others on the conservative side of things sound a lot like Bill Clinton’s defenders.

How about you use some of that critical thinking you have and compare the two situations. Like looking at actual evidence.

18 posted on 11/11/2011 6:12:21 AM PST by frogjerk (America: Innocent until accused or considered being accused by an anonymous party)
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To: TBBT
I cannot help thinking it is utterly moronic to compare the real accusations that were prove with evidence about Clinton with completely unsubstantiated accusations made up at Cain.

We had proof against Clinton. Where is ever 1 bit of proof, other then accusations against Cain?

19 posted on 11/11/2011 6:12:31 AM PST by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: cripplecreek
Not really, there is simply no reason to believe the allegations are true. These Newt supporters are desperate to keep the issue alive.

Yeah.... It's just that I remember Rush Limbaugh saying years ago that it is time to take the gloves off. We must certainly play rougher than we are with these Alinskytes, keeping in mind that we may never be as skilled at this type of fighting as they are.

20 posted on 11/11/2011 6:13:55 AM PST by Stepan12
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To: TBBT

I don’t think we should discount the character issue. A president should almost be able to walk on water.

The thing is, I don’t believe that Cain did those things that he is accused of and the witnesses brought forth so far are problematic witness at the best and totally uncredible at worst.

And nobody else has brought up anything to suggest that Cain isn’t a good man at heart.


21 posted on 11/11/2011 6:14:16 AM PST by Jonty30
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To: sklar
What are you whining about?

NR is 100% proRomney-proObama-proSoros
unfortunately like the recently racist Maria Bartiromo.

NR STILL is unable to deal with the issues
or the dots to Rove, Romney, Martin, and themselves.


22 posted on 11/11/2011 6:14:16 AM PST by Diogenesis ("Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. " Pres. Ronald Reagan)
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To: TBBT

I totally agree with you. Most Republicans have reached the point of stupification when it comes to Herman Cain. Don’t try to confuse them with facts. Herman Cain LIED about kknowing about the payoff right out of the box. That costs him a lot of points in my book. There’s an old adage that says “where there’s smoke, there’s fire.” Sadly, for the blind Cain followers, that applies to their idol Cain as well as Bill Clinton and Anthon Weiner.


23 posted on 11/11/2011 6:14:24 AM PST by Aleya2Fairlie
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To: RexBeach

I cannot help thinking it is utterly moronic to compare the real accusations that were prove with evidence about Clinton with completely unsubstantiated accusations made up at Cain.

We had proof against Clinton. Where is ever 1 bit of proof, other then accusations against Cain?


24 posted on 11/11/2011 6:14:32 AM PST by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: frogjerk

Sorry. Can’t help the way I feel.


25 posted on 11/11/2011 6:15:13 AM PST by RexBeach (There is no such thing as a good tax - Winston Churchill)
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To: Stepan12

Yup, they’re doing this because they(the democrats and RINOs) are expecting conservatives to get out the white sheets and want to lynch Cain for daring to allegedly lay a hand on a blonde, white woman.

Unfortunately for them, we’re not a bunch of racists in the least and they still clueless.


26 posted on 11/11/2011 6:15:34 AM PST by bigdirty
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To: TBBT

If the accusations are true then yes, we should be concerned. But there has been virtually no evidence presented to support the latest accusations, and few details about the two which were settled. I don’t believe a person should be found guilty based on innuendo alone.


27 posted on 11/11/2011 6:15:37 AM PST by SoJoCo
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To: TBBT

If we are looking for the PERFECT candidate then we should care, but we are looking for the most conservative who can beat Obama. Mitt of course does not qualify for that at all, he also has very serious character issues of a different nature, so he is out too Mona.

Fortunately, Cain is clearly innocent and so the whole issue is moot anyway.


28 posted on 11/11/2011 6:16:03 AM PST by HerrBlucher
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: Aleya2Fairlie

I cannot help thinking it is utterly moronic to compare the real accusations that were prove with evidence about Clinton with completely unsubstantiated accusations made up at Cain.

We had proof against Clinton. Where is ever 1 bit of proof, other then accusations against Cain?

Shame on you people. There is more at risk here then merely helping your candidate of choice win an election. If they can get away with this guilt by accusation smear at Cain, YOUR candidate will be next.


30 posted on 11/11/2011 6:16:35 AM PST by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: TBBT
We should also care if the accusations against Cain are false.

Too many (especially the MSM's) seem to go on the track that the accusations are so serious and so many that "there must be something to it".

That is not necessarily the case.

It could be true, but there is a very real possibility that this is nothing but a vicious smear campaign, with very little truth behind it, to bring down a promising conservative candidate.

We have a case where anti harassment laws are used to harass.
Stop the innuendos and bring out the evidence, if there is any.

31 posted on 11/11/2011 6:17:13 AM PST by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: RexBeach

Well at least your honest that your are feeling and not bothering to think

Shame on you people. There is more at risk here then merely helping your candidate of choice win an election. If they can get away with this guilt by accusation smear at Cain, YOUR candidate will be next.


32 posted on 11/11/2011 6:17:33 AM PST by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: sklar

I cannot help thinking it is utterly moronic to compare the real accusations that were prove with evidence about Clinton with completely unsubstantiated accusations made up at Cain.

We had proof against Clinton. Where is ever 1 bit of proof, other then accusations against Cain?

Shame on you people. There is more at risk here then merely helping your candidate of choice win an election. If they can get away with this guilt by accusation smear at Cain, YOUR candidate will be next.


33 posted on 11/11/2011 6:19:28 AM PST by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: Aleya2Fairlie

You are disingenuous.

Mr. Cain was not part of the agreement or settlement.
He had no knowledge and therefore did not lie.
In fact, his behavior AFTER that indicates he was made
more aware of it, and then himself made more known.

The agreement was controlled by NRA/Marriott, as discussed
in previous threads, just before the Rove-powered,
RomneyBought scandal du jour was launched.


34 posted on 11/11/2011 6:19:51 AM PST by Diogenesis ("Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. " Pres. Ronald Reagan)
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To: TBBT
It is going to be a sad day for those who lie when they stand before the Lord on Judgment Day. The Bible says people will be condemned for what they say.

Speak the truth or don't say anything at all.

35 posted on 11/11/2011 6:20:07 AM PST by stars & stripes forever ( Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord.)
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To: TBBT

I think the accusations smack a little too much of the need to purge Trotskyite saboteurs and wreckers from our ranks, comrade. I also see Allred playing the Queen of Hearts.

It is an old school Dixiecrat smear. The simple negro just cannot control his primitive urges, and cetera and cetera.


36 posted on 11/11/2011 6:21:04 AM PST by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: sklar

Don’t project your bigoted ignroant behavior on everyone else here Romneybot

You have not bothered to post one rational fact about Cain.

So spare us the hypocritical phoney moralizing. You have not bothered to learn a single thing about Cain.


37 posted on 11/11/2011 6:21:17 AM PST by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: BitWielder1
I want to add that I do not believe the accusers and intend to support Cain until further notice.

38 posted on 11/11/2011 6:21:39 AM PST by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: TBBT
We should definitely care if a true and credible allegation of sexual impropriety is made against Cain or any other candidate.

What I've seen so far does not come anywhere close to rising to that level.

Then again, I suppose we were NOT supposed to care when true and credible charges were lodged against Bill Clinton.

39 posted on 11/11/2011 6:21:50 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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To: sklar

Your criticism is not only of Free Republic but of Jim Robinson as well, what with your “We have been ordered...”. That’s pretty stupid to begin with, but clueless and classless as well. Free Republic is not a monolithic being. It is a conservative forum where proponents of any number of candidates post their threads. The only candidate who we’ve publicly refused to support this election is Romney; and his credentials answer for that.

If independent thinking were banned here, you’d be gone. Not for your political support but for your obnoxious, anti-FReeper-community statements.


40 posted on 11/11/2011 6:22:04 AM PST by bcsco (A vote for Cain will cure the Pain!)
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To: USS Alaska

You’re welcome to them but your views are over the top and really crude.

I don’t see how conservatism wins your way.

Look at your language..I understand your anger at the media and double standards but you can fight back without becoming them.


41 posted on 11/11/2011 6:22:45 AM PST by wardaddy (Ethnonationalist...I'll cop to that....Suicide of a Superpower...I've decided for Newt)
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To: frogjerk

The charges were NOT provable in the beginning. It took Monica’s blue dress to finally prove them, and that was much, much later. Everything else was he said v. she said, and we took the side of the victims.

At the time, I honestly thought everyone on FR picked that side because it was the good and decent thing to do. Now I wonder if freepers picked that side because Clinton as a Democrat. Now that it’s Cain, suddenly all the accusers are automatically wh*res.

In this case, I cannot really judge the veracity of the accusers, because most of them haven’t really come forward to speak about it. But I am keeping an open mind.

Here’s the one thing you need to consider about political hits. They always save the worst for the very last minute, when it’s impossible to mount a defense. These could well be warning shot, not the main event. If this is coming from a Republican rival, the big news will come just before the primary. If it’s coming from the Democrats, it will come close to the election. If Cain has skeletons rattling around, this can destroy Republican chances for winning the Presidency.


42 posted on 11/11/2011 6:23:30 AM PST by MizSterious (Apparently, there's no honor when it comes to someone else's retirement funds.)
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To: TBBT

This is the thing that has truly upset me about this. Hearing supposed conservatives proclaim that it’s OK because Clinton did it and got away with it - and in this case, I’m referring to the lying, which Cain clearly engaged in at the start - is just disgusting.

Hearing them say that even if Cain did these things - a married man, clearly using sex in an abuse of power over workplace subordinates and people who were his social inferiors - it doesn’t matter because it’s “just about sex” shows how far we have sunk as a culture. Guess what: one’s attitudes to sex and power are an absolute indicator of one’s character, and they sure don’t make his character look good.

His immediate attack on a rival coupled with the appalling smearing of the accusers - and even attacks on the verified victims, since the women who filed the original claims have been blamed and then intimidated into not defending themselves or even revealing their identities (I wouldn’t either, if I read some of the things said about them on this site) - is exactly like Clinton. But it’s okay this time because “Herman” is doing it.

I see absolutely nothing positive about this for our nation in general or conservatives in particular. We have provided no ethical leadership in this affair and I think have seriously damaged our own moral standing.


43 posted on 11/11/2011 6:23:31 AM PST by livius
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To: Stepan12

I posted these comments over at the Corner:

Even putting these accusation aside - Cain has provided on his own plenty of evidence to question whether he is ready for prime time. His “gaffes a minute” smack of a lack of depth and seriousness on many issues. Has there been a substantive issue that he’s staked a position on that he hasn’t had to “clarify” later in the day? The claims of being taken out of context when clearly he hasn’t been are very politician like for the non-politician in the race. Cain has stated that he’ll make up for his shortcomings by surrounding himself by the best people but his campaigns handling of this crisis has been abysmal. The hypocrisy has been deep when the campaign make baseless accusation about others and at the same time bemoans the baseless accusations against Cain. There are plenty of reasons to question Cain beyond this scandal.

I for one think Mona’s article made some good points...


44 posted on 11/11/2011 6:23:43 AM PST by TBBT
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To: Aleya2Fairlie
Herman Cain LIED about kknowing about the payoff

No the one lying is you. If you bothered to actually listen to the facts of the matter there was no "payoff". Two problem employees were dismissed with a severance package. Mr Cain had not part of those agreements. They were made AFTER he left NRA.

So rather then pimp the smear based on nothing but emotion, how about you learn the FACTS of the matter before posting about it?

45 posted on 11/11/2011 6:24:15 AM PST by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: TBBT

I’ll start caring when they start proving it.


46 posted on 11/11/2011 6:24:15 AM PST by RichInOC (Sarah Palin is at war with the left. Most Freepers are just playing the video game.)
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To: MNJohnnie
"Shame on you people. There is more at risk here then merely helping your candidate of choice win an election. If they can get away with this guilt by accusation smear at Cain, YOUR candidate will be next."

BRAVO! Spot. On.

47 posted on 11/11/2011 6:25:30 AM PST by SW6906 (6 things you can't have too much of: sex, money, firewood, horsepower, guns and ammunition.)
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To: TBBT

Anyone with a brain could see these accusations were BS from the beginning.


48 posted on 11/11/2011 6:26:24 AM PST by dfwgator (I stand with Herman Cain.)
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To: TBBT

I see. So now that the accusations made in Mona’s article are proven absurd, you want to change the argument to more mythology about “Cain’s gaffes”

How about instead of engaging in the usual Leftist style sleazy politics of personal attack at Cain, you quit wasting our time and try making a case FOR your candidate instead.


49 posted on 11/11/2011 6:26:25 AM PST by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: frogjerk
Prove the charges.

Yep. Unless the left manufactures a blue dress, complete with DNA, to go along with their evil plans - I ain't buying it.

There have been uncountable accusations against leftists in high power over the years, but the media immediately bursts into flames of outrage every time they're mentioned. They claim they're ALL lies (until the proof rises up above the ashes).

All of a sudden, a bimbo hit job with absolutely no proof at all becomes the absolute truth and the black conservative has to be hung up in the public square without question.

To the MSM, when it comes to conservatives, they're guilty until they can prove themselves innocent. A liberal is always innocent.

50 posted on 11/11/2011 6:26:42 AM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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