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Rossi E-Cat Sales Web Site Goes Live
http://www.leonardo-ecat.com/fp/ ^ | 11/11/2011 | Self

Posted on 11/11/2011 4:42:22 PM PST by Johnny B.

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To: dinodino
Myself. I'm grateful to Rossi and Company. Amidst all the depressing talk of monetary crisis and political street theater along comes “The Saga of Kalorie Kitty or How I Turned Hot Water into Gold”.

No one could make up a story like the one we see unfolding before us. I love it!

101 posted on 11/14/2011 5:34:41 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
Rossi has said the “fuel” was doped with Ni-62 and Ni-64, neither difficult to obtain
Do you have any sources for this? I have been unable to find any actual pricing information for enriched isotopes of Nickel and Copper, other than a single comment that enriched Nickel in the 10+ grams needed for an E-Cat device would cost hundreds-of-thousands of dollars.
102 posted on 11/14/2011 5:36:37 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.

Give me a few. I’ll check again.


103 posted on 11/14/2011 5:40:38 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Right Wing Assault
Come to think of it, there aren't too many houses that need a 1 MW plant. Ooops.

Houses, no. Apartment buildings, hotels, office buildings, yes.

There are also district heating systems (Manhattan, NY has one) where steam is distributed through underground pipes from a central plant to individual buildings. If it can reliably deliver mild steam cheaply, it still would be damn useful.

104 posted on 11/14/2011 5:41:12 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: exDemMom
Another interesting fact is that when I first became aware of the eCat, Rossi was hyping it as the next great energy revolution. It was going to make all other energy generation technology obsolete—in fact, Rossi was all but urging the immediate dismantling of all power plants. Now, according to the Leonardo website, it’s only being sold as a heater. I sense that Rossi is very sensitive to the criticisms, and tries to change his story accordingly.

According to Rossi, getting it to the point of reliably running hot enough to make steam at turbine temperatures is a couple of years away. It would make a lot of sense to sell it as a heater in the meanwhile.

105 posted on 11/14/2011 5:43:28 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: Johnny B.

Here is a supplier of nickel isotopes but like many companies they publish prices online:
ISOFLEX Stable Isotopes | isoflex.com
www.isoflex.com/isotopes

and if you google “e-cat reactor Ni-62, Ni-64” it will take you to “Next Big Future” page.

Not much but it’s a start. More in a few minutes.


106 posted on 11/14/2011 5:56:56 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Wonder Warthog
About as accurate as everything else you've posted (which is to say....not at all). David Passerini also "broke" that news.
Source?

What I've found is this: http://ecatnews.com/?p=1269 which has a link which just points back to Allan's blog post.

Having one unsubstantiated claim by Allan being reposted in other blogs does not make it substantiated.

I see that this blog also had a story about National Instruments buying an E-Cat from Rossi, which turned out to be false.

107 posted on 11/14/2011 6:07:06 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.

I’m not finding actual costs but since these are stable and not exceedingly rare isotopes the cost of a milligram or two might not be prohibitive. After all, how many samples of “spent fuel” have been provided?


108 posted on 11/14/2011 6:17:12 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, none of the suppliers seem to be willing to publicly quote their prices, and I haven't reached the point where I'm willing to pretend being a customer in order to get a quote.

While looking for an "original" source for all the quotes about the isotope analysis of Rossi's used "fuel", I came across this statement by Rossi that really caught my attention:

3- Ni 59 doesn’t exist. It is a typo. We buy regular Ni powder, then we make a treatment of it wich changes the isotopical composition. In that paper I referred to the powder as we buy it, not to the composition of the powder after the treatment we make. In any case, the composition of Ni, as we buy it, is well known: 58 (67,88%), 60 (26,23%), 61 (1,19%), 62 (3,66%), 64 (1,08%). After that, we change it.
According to this, Rossi is buying "natural" Nickel, then "treating" it to produce different isotopes.

That strikes me as remarkable as his claims for the E-Cat. Is he really transmuting Nickel into different isotopes? How would he go about doing that? Does he have a nuclear fission reactor in his kitchen? Does anyone know of a reaction that takes "natural" Nickel and produces "unnatural" Nickel (differing isotope ratios) without also producing other, obvious byproducts of nuclear fission?

109 posted on 11/14/2011 6:31:46 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: count-your-change
but since these are stable and not exceedingly rare isotopes the cost of a milligram or two might not be prohibitive.
They may be stable and not exceedingly rare, but as far as I know, separating them out is an expensive proposition (but if anyone has any references to the contrary, I would love to see them).

This would be the same process that various countries around the world are spending huge amounts of money to try to develop, in order to enrich Uranium and Plutonium for use in nuclear bombs.

If Rossi has developed a method of doing this in his kitchen, it would be a bigger breakthrough than a box that produces a small amount of hot water with a bit of steam.

110 posted on 11/14/2011 6:35:57 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.
That strikes me as remarkable as his claims for the E-Cat. Is he really transmuting Nickel into different isotopes? How would he go about doing that?

When the nickel "fuses" with the hydrogen, a new isotope (or element) is created.

111 posted on 11/14/2011 6:50:43 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
When the nickel "fuses" with the hydrogen, a new isotope (or element) is created.
I'm not talking about the operation of the E-Cat. I'm talking about Rossi's claim about preparing his "catalyst". Rossi is claiming that he is, somehow, enriching certain isotopes of Nickel before it is suitable to be used in the E-Cat.

Note that although he claims to have "enhanced" Nickel, the reports of the analysis of his "before" and "after" fuel samples showed no signs of unusual isotopes or elements. They only showed the natural isotope ratios of both Nickel and Copper, which is what we would expect if there were no nuclear processes occurring.

As far as I know, Rossi has not released the actual report, which is typical of him. It would go a long way toward proving or disproving Rossi's claims.

112 posted on 11/14/2011 7:29:20 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.
I think what the uranium enrichment so difficult was that it was in the form of a gas that had to be put through nearly endless cycles of a centrifuge to separate the various weights of material.
How the stable nickel isotopes would be obtained I don't know.
113 posted on 11/14/2011 7:34:07 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Johnny B.

Another silly claim by Rossi.


114 posted on 11/14/2011 7:37:53 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: count-your-change
HERE is the Wikipedia article on the subject.

There are several methods of enriching specific isotopes, but none of them are something you could do in your kitchen.

115 posted on 11/14/2011 7:45:00 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.

I can’t find a price online. Anyway, the truth is oozing out about this “world changing technology” so we’ll have to wait a bit for the next twist in the story.

Stay tuned folks, it gets better....really it does.


116 posted on 11/14/2011 7:45:30 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Johnny B.

Thanks. Now I know more about isotopes than I ever really wanted to. Can’t we just go back to the e-cat and really, really try to believe?


117 posted on 11/14/2011 7:51:52 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: PapaBear3625

My guess is that as soon as you pull the plug on the heating elements, the “heat generation” stops.

Wouldn’t it make more sense for Rossi, rather than selling some really expensive water heaters, to actually complete his tech with the goal of power generation, and then realize huge commercial potential? Oh, wait—he can’t do that, because THE WHOLE THING IS A HUGE SCAM.


118 posted on 11/14/2011 8:22:53 AM PST by dinodino
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To: Johnny B.
"Source?"

Passerini's blog. Look it up.

22 passi.

"Having one unsubstantiated claim by Allan being reposted in other blogs does not make it substantiated."

Sorry. Your "assumption" is wrong. It wasn't a re-post, but an independent verification. And if you had spent less time on your "Randi" threads, and more actually learning the background of this whole story, you would know that Danielle Passerini is a personal friend of Guiseppe Levi, who often "breaks" primary information about the E-Cat.

And NOT on Rossi's payroll.

He didn't break the story before Allan, because Allan had been promised priority on the scoop, but he confirmed it VERY shortly afterwards.

119 posted on 11/14/2011 5:13:58 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: PapaBear3625
According to Rossi, getting it to the point of reliably running hot enough to make steam at turbine temperatures is a couple of years away. It would make a lot of sense to sell it as a heater in the meanwhile.

I've a feeling that the power generation capacity is always going to be just a year or so off.

120 posted on 11/14/2011 5:15:14 PM PST by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: Johnny B.

Of course it’s substantiated. There were a bunch of people there.

That leaves only 2 possibilities. Either Rossi is a scam artist or it’s the real deal.


121 posted on 11/14/2011 7:44:01 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: exDemMom

I’ve a feeling
***Maybe you should base your opinions on facts and rational reasoning rather than feelings.


122 posted on 11/14/2011 8:26:06 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo
***Maybe you should base your opinions on facts and rational reasoning rather than feelings

Oh, I suppose I could go looking through some of the links JohnnyB has provided, and copy examples of past con men who always promised that the big breakthrough was always just around the corner. But in this case, I think my instincts are good enough.

123 posted on 11/14/2011 8:33:32 PM PST by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: exDemMom

Then asking you to evaluate the scientific evidence appears to be too much. It’s so boring, emotionally.


124 posted on 11/14/2011 9:42:08 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Wonder Warthog
Passerini's blog. Look it up.
OK, I looked it up.

You once complained about some news stories about Rossi's criminal past, because they were poorly translated from the Italian by Google. The translation of this site is far worse than anything I posted. If there is an English language version, please post the link.

He may be claiming to have independently "confirmed" the N.I. story (it's impossible to make sense of the translation), but I notice he doesn't provide any evidence of that, and that he links back to Stirling Allan's blog post.

So, I still haven't seen anything other than Allan's blog post to verify this. In particular, I haven't seen any sign of an actual press release, which would have been released by N.I.

In the end, it's straining at gnats anyway. If Rossi is legitimate, he would be buying components to build his gadgets. If Rossi is a con artist, he would be creating the appearance of buying components to build his gadget.

125 posted on 11/15/2011 3:49:13 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Kevmo
Then asking you to evaluate the scientific evidence appears to be too much. It’s so boring, emotionally.

Since I'm very much a logical person, I have found that the few times an emotional reaction seems to precede my logical analysis, there is always a logical reason for me to feel the way I do.

In this case, I have already read the accounts of other con men whose behaviors were nearly identical to Rossi's. So, I think the "feeling" is based on an assessment that since Rossi has demonstrated a behavior pattern, he will continue to act in a manner consistent with that pattern.

Let me guess--you would accept no evidence of Rossi's con man personality short of a psychiatric examination which, even if done, we would not see because of privacy laws.

126 posted on 11/15/2011 3:53:05 AM PST by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: Kevmo
Of course it’s substantiated. There were a bunch of people there.
So, that means that when David Copperfield makes the Statue of Liberty disappear, it must really be happening because "there were a bunch of people there"?
127 posted on 11/15/2011 3:53:53 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.
"You once complained about some news stories about Rossi's criminal past, because they were poorly translated from the Italian by Google. The translation of this site is far worse than anything I posted. If there is an English language version, please post the link.

Funny. I had not problem with the translation.

"He may be claiming to have independently "confirmed" the N.I. story (it's impossible to make sense of the translation), but I notice he doesn't provide any evidence of that, and that he links back to Stirling Allan's blog post."

It's obvious even from the "bad translation" that he was aware of the NI link well before it was revealed to the world. And of course he would link to Allan's entry, as that was the "officially blessed by Rossi" site to be credited with the info.

"So, I still haven't seen anything other than Allan's blog post to verify this. In particular, I haven't seen any sign of an actual press release, which would have been released by N.I."

I had no problem finding a statement from direct from NI clarifying that NI did not buy an E-Cat (as was rumored by some), but WAS contracting with Rossi to provide control equipment.

And no, I didn't save the link.

"In the end, it's straining at gnats anyway. If Rossi is legitimate, he would be buying components to build his gadgets. If Rossi is a con artist, he would be creating the appearance of buying components to build his gadget.

As I understand it, this control package will be quite extensive, both hardware and software. A contract and specification is an absolute necessity before buying. And your attempt at equivocation on the point simply betrays your psychotic skeptic point of view.

128 posted on 11/15/2011 4:49:22 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog
And no, I didn't save the link.
Fortunately, I did: LINK

When I first read this story, I missed the statement: There are thousands of researchers and engineers in the world trying to solve alternative energy challenges and National Instruments provides tools to many of these scientists. One example is the Leonardo Corporation who intends to use NI tools for various applications. Specific details are still in development.

So, Rossi and N.I. are in talks about N.I. supplying tools, as they do for "thousands of researchers and engineers".

No signed contract, no signs of any special relationship. Just talking about doing a deal. That's nice, but it's hardly the "confirmation that Rossi is correct" that his fans have claimed.

This article is also independent confirmation that N.I. did not buy an E-Cat, so we still don't have any independent confirmation that Rossi has actually sold an E-Cat to anyone.

129 posted on 11/15/2011 7:14:21 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: palmer

You sound like a non-believer. Quite a few of those after the first Kitty-hawk flight too.


130 posted on 11/15/2011 12:48:31 PM PST by Sundog (When Hollywood defines reality there is no reality.)
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To: Kevmo

There will be disbelievers until we have a LENR aircraft carrier. Sometimes it’s better to save your breath than worry about evidence for those who wish to remain skeptical.


131 posted on 11/15/2011 12:52:51 PM PST by Sundog (When Hollywood defines reality there is no reality.)
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To: Sundog
You sound like a non-believer. Quite a few of those after the first Kitty-hawk flight too.
"Belief" has nothing to do with science. If you're a "believer" then you're engaging in religion.

Also, there were quite a few "non-believers" with every scam invention, and the "non-believers" were correct.

Notice that Rossi's partner, Sterling D. Allan, has believed, endorsed and supported just about all of the scam "energy" devices over the last couple of decades. HERE is a list of Allan's articles about a wide verity of scams and delusions.

The fact that he is now supporting Rossi is a compelling argument that Rossi's E-Cat is also a scam. It would be out of character for Allen to support something that actually worked.

132 posted on 11/15/2011 12:59:35 PM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Sundog
There will be disbelievers until we have a LENR aircraft carrier.
I would settle for a report from an identified company not associated with Rossi (legitimate company, university, or government organization) that they had independently tested a Rossi E-Cat and determined that it actually does produce more energy than it takes in.

We still don't have anything like that. Rossi could have easily allowed such a test at any time, but since he won't do so, it's safe to assume that he can't do so.

133 posted on 11/15/2011 1:04:11 PM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.

Pretty interesting power curves I must say, nobody there has said they weren’t legit. Of course those absent can have any opinion. I for one don’t believe the Chinese ever ventured out of their space craft in orbit. We definitely have hoaxes in our scientific papers.


134 posted on 11/15/2011 6:34:43 PM PST by Sundog (When Hollywood defines reality there is no reality.)
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To: Kevmo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt2JqEmaUGc

http://www.oru.se/Kalendarium/Startsida-Kalendarium/offentliga-forelasningar/Offentliga-forelasningar-Morgondagens-karnkraft-—blir-den-kall-eller-varm-/

You know how to use Google Translate, right?


135 posted on 11/15/2011 7:22:58 PM PST by Sundog (When Hollywood defines reality there is no reality.)
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To: exDemMom

You’re way off, and you’re headed down a track that is obviously blazed by your emotions. You won’t even look at the scientific evidence because you’re all wrapped up in the appearance of a con artist. You simply cannot see past it. And that is not due to your logical reasoning, it is due to your emotions.

Here’s a classic example of how you’re leading with your emotions:
Let me guess—you would accept no evidence of Rossi’s con man personality short of a psychiatric examination which, even if done, we would not see because of privacy laws.
***This is a total distortion of how I view the situation, and you argue against that distortion. Such an approach is a classic fallacy — it’s called straw argumentation. Why would someone who’s “very much a logical person” demonstrate a logical fallacy in the very next paragraph? Because you ain’t nearly as logical as you perceive yourself.


136 posted on 11/15/2011 7:33:46 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Sundog

I’m on a low bandwidth connection, not all that interested in Youtube videos at this point.


137 posted on 11/15/2011 7:36:04 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Sundog

Good advice.


138 posted on 11/15/2011 7:36:49 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Johnny B.

So, that means that when David Copperfield makes the Statue of Liberty disappear, it must really be happening because “there were a bunch of people there”?
*** The statue is still there. You can go see it now. Similarly, you can prove that Rossi is a fraud by getting a buncha buddies together and buying one.


139 posted on 11/15/2011 8:25:30 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Johnny B.

Do you have any issue with the second part of the statement?

That leaves only 2 possibilities. Either Rossi is a scam artist or it’s the real deal.


140 posted on 11/15/2011 8:47:45 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Kevmo

The Video is entitled, “Cold Fusion: Physcists Sven Kullander and Hanno Essén interviewed about the Rossi-Focardi cell”

Here’s the English transcript:
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3111124.ece

The translation to the second link above, which is an invitation to a lecture in a week, in part reads:

But maybe all these planned large-scale facilities will compete with small reactors that could be the private property of every man and woman. Cold fusion has been developed recently in Bologna can be housed in an apparatus which is not much bigger than a coffee maker and generating energy only with a few teaspoons of nickel powder.

An intensive discussion on the net have questioned the experiment in Bologna mainly because it can not be explained by the established nuclear physics theory. It has also been speculated that the derivative produced heat energy must have been greatly overestimated mainly by an overestimation of the buildup of steam. At the lecture, these issues will be treated in order to gain a better understanding of the experiment in Bologna. ”

It’s time for the nay-sayers to discredit some Swedish scientists too.


141 posted on 11/15/2011 9:47:20 PM PST by Sundog (When Hollywood defines reality there is no reality.)
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To: Kevmo
*** The statue is still there. You can go see it now.
And yet hundreds of live witnesses, and millions of TV viewers saw it disappear. That is far more convincing than anything Rossi has done, and yet it was obviously a trick.
Similarly, you can prove that Rossi is a fraud by getting a buncha buddies together and buying one.
I'm not in the habit of giving my money to con artists. Don't let me stop you, though.
142 posted on 11/16/2011 3:13:43 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Kevmo
That leaves only 2 possibilities. Either Rossi is a scam artist or it’s the real deal.
I would agree with this statement. I suppose it's possible that Rossi is completely psychotic, but I don't believe that.

Rossi's claims are so grandiose that they can't be based on honest error. He claims to have heated his factory for six months with his E-Cat, using only a single charge of "fuel". This would be exactly the kind of demonstration that the skeptics have been begging for.

Too bad that Rossi has absolutely no evidence that he has actually done this.

143 posted on 11/16/2011 3:17:20 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Sundog
The Video is entitled, “Cold Fusion: Physcists Sven Kullander and Hanno Essén interviewed about the Rossi-Focardi cell”
I find it interesting that in the video, it's clear that their support of Rossi is based entirely on believing everything that Rossi says. For example, they mention that he has "heated his factory for a year using the E-Cat". Unfortunately, there is no actual evidence that he has done anything like this.

Scientists work on the assumption that their peers are honest. This is necessary to avoid having to start each experiment from first principles. However, it leaves very little protection against fraud.

The solution to detecting fraud is to have others repeat experiments and verify similar results. However, Rossi refuses to allow this to happen. Therefore, Rossi is "cheating" the scientific process.

He is welcome to do so, but as long as he does, any claims he makes should be disregarded.

144 posted on 11/16/2011 3:24:10 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Kevmo
You’re way off, and you’re headed down a track that is obviously blazed by your emotions. You won’t even look at the scientific evidence because you’re all wrapped up in the appearance of a con artist. You simply cannot see past it. And that is not due to your logical reasoning, it is due to your emotions.

Seriously? You should know by now that my skepticism of Rossi's claims is based completely in science. It is not up to me to prove that the non-scientist Rossi's claims of having achieved transmutation of elements in a way incompatible with the laws of physics; it is up to Rossi to show that he has. I've even discussed the nature of the easily obtained evidence that would support such a claim. And he has shown nothing yet.

As far as feelings go, when I see someone whose behavior patterns are objectively similar to those displayed by con artists in the past--that is, e.g., I can read that a past con artist always had some explanation as to why his "invention" could not be tested by an independent party, and Rossi also does not allow testing by an independent party--then it is safe to say that I have a feeling that Rossi will, in fact, engage in another behavior that is consistent with that of con men. I cannot have objective evidence of an action that will occur in the future.

That last sentence actually exists in a bit of a grey area. A few months ago, the claims were that this device was going to replace all known methods of power generation, and that power plant operators might as well start dismantling their plants, since they were about to be made obsolete. But now, the claim is only that the device is a heater, with power generation still in the future. So it does almost appear that Rossi is already engaged in the behavior of promising that the big breakthrough is just around the corner.

145 posted on 11/16/2011 4:59:27 AM PST by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: Johnny B.

I recall the brilliant scientists of MIT when Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann were hard at work. Openly, they derided him in the extreme. Behind the scenes, they filed a slug of patents on ways to possibly use the technology. We have a world of blithering hypocrites. Something like powered flight comes along and the rage to stop it and deny it because God didn’t give man wings becomes fervent.


146 posted on 11/16/2011 9:19:49 AM PST by Sundog (When Hollywood defines reality there is no reality.)
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To: Sundog
I recall the brilliant scientists of MIT when Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann were hard at work. Openly, they derided him in the extreme. Behind the scenes, they filed a slug of patents on ways to possibly use the technology.
Wow! I don't know who that rant is aimed at, but if you really hate MIT that much, here's something to cheer you up:

All those patents you say they got when Pons and Fleischmann were getting all of their publicity have by now expired, presumably without ever earning MIT so much as a penny.

147 posted on 11/16/2011 11:31:34 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Kevmo
Rossi's E-Cat Sales Web Site, Version 2!

http://ecat.com

Much prettier than the last attempt. This one drops the escrow account part, but does claim to ship in three months.

(Posted to Kevmo to pass on to the Cold Fusion ping list.)

148 posted on 11/16/2011 1:29:16 PM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.


And yet hundreds of live witnesses, and millions of TV viewers saw it disappear.
***And yet there are witnesses to the heat generation of Rossi's E-Cat. That would make Rossi a far better magician than anyone else because he's doing the trick right in front of them while they have physical access to it. They have weighed it, looked under it, torn it apart, dunked it in water to get its density, all kinds of things.


Again I like what Jed has to say.



Re: [Vo]: Rossi Deserves Our Gratitude
Jed Rothwell
Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:01:28 -0800

Mary Yugo wrote:


> You keep saying the results of Rossi's demos were obvious but there is
> continuing disagreement over that from very smart people so you could be
> wrong.
>

I do not know any very smart people who say this. All of the scientists
I know who have examined the results are convinced. They include people
such as Kullander, who is chairman of the Royal Academy of Sciences Energy
Committee. I am certain that he knows more about energy than you do. I am
sure he knows more about energy than all of skeptics tied together.

The people who dispute these results have never offered any valid technical
reasons to back up their assertions. For example, Jones Beene claimed that
the calorimetry during the 18-hour flowing water test might be off by a
factor of 1000, but he never gave any reasons why this is possible. Other
people said that the input power might be measured incorrectly in that
test, but that is impossible because the wires would burn up if there was
that much electricity being input.

You have never offered any technical reasons for any of your claims. You
say that there may be a stage magician somewhere on Earth who knows some
method of doing a fake test of this nature. That is not falsifiable so it
is not a scientific assertion. Whenever anyone asks you for a scientific
reason, you change the subject and point to Rossi's personality, and then
you say he might be a fraud, and then you talk about Steorn. You are
evading the issue.

In the last year I have not seen a a single valid technical objection to
Rossi's claims. I'm sure that if the skeptics could come up with something
by now if they could.

That is not to say Rossi's tests have been perfect. I myself have pointed
out many weaknesses. However these weaknesses have no impact on the
conclusion. Any experiment has weaknesses. Even the most irrefutable
demonstration of a phenomenon could always be done with better
instrumentation or more rigor.



> You and others persist in making unlikely excuses for Rossi.
>

I never make excuses for anyone, least of all myself. My belief is in
Rossi's claims, based on physics, not in the man himself.


Rossi's problem is a failure to conduct his tests properly and to get
> independent testing. The skeptics merely point this out.
>

I POINT THIS OUT. Often.



> They also point out simple and safe, inexpensive ways to remedy the
> problems.
>

These problem are annoying but unimportant.



> It's Rossi's fault, not the fault of the skeptics, that he doesn't follow
> your advice, much less skeptics' advice.
>

Yes, but his failure to follow this advice has no bearing whatever on the
reality of his claim. That is based solely on fundamental physics and it
would not change even if it Rossi turns out to be a fraud and an ax
murderer to boot.


Also: Please stop saying that I accuse Rossi of lying about his technical
claims. I said very clearly that I have NEVER seen him do that. Perhaps he
has lied but I have never caught him saying anything which was not either
true or that he did not indicate was pure speculation.

He has said some dubious things about personal matters such as his PhD from
the diploma mill, his reasons for breaking with Defkalion, and about me,
personally. That has nothing to do with the scientific claims.

I think he sometimes practices misdirection and selective leaking of facts.
Every inventor I have ever heard of did this. Edison was a master at that.
IBM held a gigantic share of the computer market decades longer than they
might have, partly thanks to their masterful use of this technique.

- Jed








--------------------------------------------------

Re: [Vo]:Best and worst aspects of the Oct. 6 test summarized at LENR-CANR News
Jed Rothwell
Thu, 20 Oct 2011 17:27:43 -0700

Terry Blanton wrote:


> > And many people are paid for performing grand illusions that
> > cannot be exposed by observers in audience and live television.
>
> And who is going to pay Rossi for a hoax? This engineer will tell you
> that none of us will be fooled.
>

Yeah! About those stage magicians: they only fool you because you are in the
audience, not on stage. Put Terry on the stage for a few minutes, let him go
behind the apparatus, and he will tell you how the trick works.

Special effects in movies are blatantly obvious when you are on the sound
stage, watching them film. Look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2001_CENTRIFUGE_SET.jpg

Do you think anyone would mistake this for an actual space ship?


This notion that "fakers" or "scammers" can fool engineers is silly. I been
watching this business for nearly 20 years. I have heard of many scammers
and met a few in person. They did not fool me or any other knowledgeable
person.

There are claims difficult to judge. There have been confused people, or
people who had complicated machines that took time to understand. Especially
the magnet machines. There are cold fusion experiments claiming effects
close to the margin of error, such as 2% excess heat. That is hard to
confirm or deny. Those are all a different story. Rossi's machine is dead
simple from the point of view of calorimetry. Let's see a scammer or stage
magician disconnect the power from a box with 30 L of boiling water, change
out the water twice, and still have it boiling hot. Not gunna happen.

As I have often said, it is a lot easier to find blatant, deliberate fraud
than a subtle experimental error. Nature knows more ways to fool us than man
will ever dream up.

- Jed





149 posted on 11/16/2011 9:22:24 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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To: Johnny B.

Kevmo: That leaves only 2 possibilities. Either Rossi is a scam artist or it’s the real deal.
JB: I would agree with this statement. ... Rossi’s claims are so grandiose that they can’t be based on honest error.
***Good, then determining the truth will be easier. All this focus on measurements that only make 10% difference are meaningless. Eventually this will be either found out or accepted as real. The proliferation of buyers works against the scam hypothesis.

He claims to have heated his factory for six months with his E-Cat, using only a single charge of “fuel”. This would be exactly the kind of demonstration that the skeptics have been begging for.
***And if I were a buyer, I would insist on seeing it.

Too bad that Rossi has absolutely no evidence that he has actually done this.
***His buyers represent all the evidence he cares about. One thing this suggests is that Rossi easily could give a convincing demo to skeptics, but has chosen not to. I sometimes think this is a mistake but the Wright brothers were in the same position in 1905 when there was a steady stream of visitors asking for demos; their only requirement was that if they showed the device could fly, the person would be buying some units. No one accepted those conditions for 2 years. So, Rossi is doing the same thing.


150 posted on 11/16/2011 9:32:00 PM PST by Kevmo (When a thing is owned by everybody nobody gives value to it. Communism taught us this. ~A. Rossi)
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