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Survivors of sexual abuse appalled by Penn State unrest
CNN ^ | 11 Nov 2011 | Madison Park

Posted on 11/11/2011 6:47:52 PM PST by Hoodat

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I found it very sobering to hear past victims of sexual abuse remind us of the insensitivity of those rallying in support of Joe Paterno.
1 posted on 11/11/2011 6:47:54 PM PST by Hoodat
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To: Hoodat

Anyone who witnesses something like this and does not immediately try to stop it is a worthless coward. You don’t just watch it go on and mention it to the boss or call the cops later, you take action!


2 posted on 11/11/2011 6:53:37 PM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: Hoodat
What get me is that Paterno was not the abuser. The abuser is known, and he gets a pass, while Paterno gets the ax.

I agree that the kids who were abused are getting short shrift here - but that is a problem that rests with those who fired Paterno and let the guilty off the hook.

There's more than one thing wrong here, and it rests squarely in the lap of the police and college board that fired Paterno.

3 posted on 11/11/2011 6:55:15 PM PST by Ron C.
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To: Ron C.

I agree. I am also amazed at new found extralegal morality that has been found among those sportswritters like John Feinstien and Mike Wilbaun. These people thought it was okay to give the likes of Ray Lewis a pass for all of these years.


4 posted on 11/11/2011 6:59:07 PM PST by Perdogg
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

“Anyone who witnesses something like this and does not immediately try to stop it is a worthless coward. You don’t just watch it go on and mention it to the boss or call the cops later, you take action!”

As I posted earlier tonight:

I’m confused by all of this

The man who saw the child being raped should have beaten the crap out of the rapist and rescued the child.

When Paterno found out he should have informed the police and then gone to the hospital and beaten the crap out of the rapist.

As soon as the he got out of the hospital, the child’s male family members should have beaten the crap out of the rapist.

When no one else wanted to beat the crap out of the rapist, he should have been convicted and imprisoned where daily other prisoners would beat the crap out of him.

My view of the reactions to this disgusting crime is a severe lack of testosterone


5 posted on 11/11/2011 7:00:09 PM PST by Prokopton
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To: Ron C.

Paterno is a grown man and was in a position of responsibility. He knew something was wrong and didn’t follow through. Although, technically he didn’t have the legal responsibility to follow up on it, he did have the moral responsibility to do so. Maybe he should find a job that entails no moral responsibilities ... maybe in the Food Stamp President’s administration.


6 posted on 11/11/2011 7:00:43 PM PST by RetiredTexasVet (There's a pill for just about everything ... except stupid!)
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To: Perdogg

Ray who? :-)


7 posted on 11/11/2011 7:01:47 PM PST by writer33 (Mark Levin Is The Constitutional Engine Of Conservatism)
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To: Ron C.

Check out the two links at bottom of this article:

http://elle-kynzer.wrytestuff.com/swa789035-Sandusky-Had-More-Witnesses-To-His-Criminal-Acts-Against-Children-Over-The.htm


8 posted on 11/11/2011 7:02:11 PM PST by Kackikat
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
you take action!

AMEN!

9 posted on 11/11/2011 7:05:49 PM PST by doc1019 (If Romney is our choice, I refuse to vote.)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
Anyone who witnesses something like this and does not immediately try to stop it is a worthless coward.

Mayhaps. I don't see being a coward in the criminal code and that seems to be what all of the Monday Morning Pederast QBs seem to be calling for.

There is one guilty person here. One who committed a real crime. Hang him by his tiny penis.

Stop deflecting.

10 posted on 11/11/2011 7:14:01 PM PST by Glenn (iamtheresistance.org)
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To: Ron C.
What get me is that Paterno was not the abuser. The abuser is known, and he gets a pass, while Paterno gets the ax.

This is something that bothers me also. People keep saying Paterno ran the entire school but actually folks should google Graham Spanier, the President of PSU. He is currently on administrative leave but it was reported today he is still teaching classes in the Human Development Department. If you read the papers and books he has authored it will disgust you. This guy is an expert on Advanced Homosexual Studies.

An Obama acquaintance, Spanier has as many important friends as Paterno, maybe more because Paterno has not been out rubbing elbows for a decade or two. Plus Spanier must be a hero to everyone in the homosexual community since he has been working to advance their agenda since the 1970s.

Bottom line, the people blaming love of football are falling for the mischaracterization from the MSM. This is not bowing down to football; this is bowing down to the Lavender Mafia. This is political correctness to the point where everywhere you turn you find another Arne Duncan supporter.

11 posted on 11/11/2011 7:15:09 PM PST by Zevonismymuse
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To: Hoodat

Hell..Watch Espn...they so scared to even call it a riot..trying to be pc and hip at same time


12 posted on 11/11/2011 7:19:41 PM PST by skaterboy (Hate=Love....Love=Hate)
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To: Ron C.

he gets a pass? you do know he doing 40 counts dont ya?


13 posted on 11/11/2011 7:20:50 PM PST by skaterboy (Hate=Love....Love=Hate)
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To: RetiredTexasVet
Paterno is a grown man and was in a position of responsibility. He knew something was wrong and didn’t follow through.

This isn't clear to me. He certainly reported it to others, and I've seen it written that he "cooperated with the investigation", whatever year of the many years this dragged on as an open secret that may have been. In fact, nothing about this is clear to me, except that I see the familiar pattern of some sort of script being issued from some unknown high place, and everybody following it. My feeling is that the students have a clearer idea of what's going on than all these moral hens clucking at them.

14 posted on 11/11/2011 7:20:50 PM PST by dr_lew
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To: Hoodat
students rioting at Penn State

Perhaps the students have been participating in orgies after school since they were ten - the new normal:

The lost children of rockdale county
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/georgia/etc/press.html

15 posted on 11/11/2011 7:26:55 PM PST by donna (This is what happens when America is no longer a Christian nation.)
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To: Prokopton

I just asked my husband what he would have done if he had witnessed the rape of a child in that shower room. He said the same thing, he would have beaten the crap out of Sandusky, that he wouldn’t have gotten up.


16 posted on 11/11/2011 7:30:09 PM PST by Eva
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To: skaterboy

Two days ago you heard the name “Paterno” hundreds of times. You were lucky if you heard the name “Sandusky” at all. Paterno was the third party who never should have been involved, but still contacted his superior as well as the police commissioner and put them in touch with the witness. Yet HE is the one who has taken ALL the blame so far. I have heard dozens of people talking about the “Paterno sex scandal” when the only (even remotely) legitimate complaint against him is that he either went to too high a level of police or he didn’t follow up. I don’t buy either of those.

Sandusky is the alleged monster. You don’t hear his name. This is no different than talking about a “Wisconsin Murder Scandal” mentioning the cops that let Dahmer go without mentioning his name. For f***’s sake, this is all about the wrong people.


17 posted on 11/11/2011 7:31:06 PM PST by flintsilver7 (Honest reporting hasn't caught on in the United States.)
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To: flintsilver7

Come on though, Paterno was probably the most famous college football coach, and he had just become the winningest coach of all time. He IS Penn State, for all intents and purposes.


18 posted on 11/11/2011 7:32:13 PM PST by dfwgator (I stand with Herman Cain.)
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To: RetiredTexasVet
Paterno is a grown man and was in a position of responsibility. He knew something was wrong and didn’t follow through.

A little something picked up from another FReeper.

...a statement from Joe Paterno, circa 1985 that now drips with irony:

When asked about retirement, Joe Paterno once said that he would not, because it would leave college football in the hands of “the Jackie Sherrills and the Barry Switzers”


19 posted on 11/11/2011 7:37:16 PM PST by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance On Parade)
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To: dfwgator

I keep hearing this. Paterno was (and is) a very reserved and private man. He lives in a modest house. I personally never liked him, though his wife is one of the nicest people you’ll ever meet. Paterno has never been known to exercise his influence or his power, and I don’t believe that police give more weight to hearsay reports if they come from a famous coach.

I understand the argument that Paterno has some sort of “power” over State College, but having lived there for six years I never saw or felt that. He may be revered as a public figure, but he’s just a normal guy in the offseason.

I can tell you also that Paterno ISN’T Penn State. They are the corrupt Board of Trustees (who I called the Penn State Politburo). They are people like Terrell Jones and Graham Spanier. They are a bastion of corrupt and politically correct liberalism. The school would be a hell of a lot better off if it were just Paterno.

The problem with this (and this scandal has drawn in far too many conservatives) is that it sacrifices a good man so the corrupt liberal establishment can continue.


20 posted on 11/11/2011 7:38:27 PM PST by flintsilver7 (Honest reporting hasn't caught on in the United States.)
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To: Ron C.

I’m wondering about that too. I just started trying to read more on this story, but it sure seems like there was an actual abuser and an actual observer of the abuse that are getting a lot lighter treatment than this old guy. Was he calling the shots so as to condone this abuse? Shouldn’t we have a trial in a court of law with witnesses and evidence before we string him up? Could this be why the students are upset? I just watched the media trying a GOP candidate in the media with accusations and innuendo the past couple of weeks. Is this the new normal for us in the US? No need to go to a court of law, just try it in the media? He may be guilty as hell, but why are people on FR forming a lynch mob instead of supporting constitutional rights?


21 posted on 11/11/2011 7:38:47 PM PST by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: dfwgator
He IS Penn State, for all intents and purposes.

There in lies the problem. Paterno was at Penn State too long, he had developed a cult following. Sure, Paterno's football team was a great force for rallying alumni school spirit, afterall, he was a constant, something to remind the alumni of the good old college days and open their wallets. But, Paterno should never have reached the height of reverence and following that put him above all Christian moral ethics and the law.

22 posted on 11/11/2011 7:41:04 PM PST by Eva
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To: flintsilver7

If what you say is true, then why did Joe not confront them, even if it meant he would no longer have his job? If Joe truly was the kind of man as you suggest, it would seem logical he would put up with dealing with them.


23 posted on 11/11/2011 7:41:08 PM PST by dfwgator (I stand with Herman Cain.)
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To: dfwgator

that should be “it would seem logical he wouldn’t put up with dealing with them”.


24 posted on 11/11/2011 7:42:08 PM PST by dfwgator (I stand with Herman Cain.)
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To: Ron C.

I thought the abuser had been arrested and charged with 40 counts..............


25 posted on 11/11/2011 7:44:34 PM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: dfwgator

I’m just going on intuition here, but Paterno wouldn’t have any reason to have any day-to-day dealings with any of those people. The Board of Trustees ultimately controlled his fate (as you saw) and they have been looking to get rid of him for years. This simply provided a convenient excuse to do so.


26 posted on 11/11/2011 7:44:42 PM PST by flintsilver7 (Honest reporting hasn't caught on in the United States.)
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To: dfwgator
"he had just become the winningest coach"

Mighty convenient they waited until he got the record.

Who held this information until he broke the record?

27 posted on 11/11/2011 7:47:51 PM PST by AGreatPer (Obama has NEVER given a speech where he did not lie!!!)
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To: Ron C.

“but that is a problem that rests with those who fired Paterno and let the guilty off the hook”

Huh? Who’s been let off the hook? I don’t see anyone free and clear of this outrage at this juncture. True, some are not yet in jail, but they will all suffer the extreme losses attendant to a civil lawsuit or two at a minimum. I just hope they go after the University president and leave him and his staff penniless! Oh, and how is it that Paterno is not an abuser? He allowed it to be covered up. He is, therefore a moral co-conspirator. It was more important for him to salvage his “legacy” than protect some helpless children. He hasn’t yet suffered enough in my view!


28 posted on 11/11/2011 7:48:00 PM PST by vette6387 (Enough Already!)
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To: vette6387
He allowed it to be covered up. He is, therefore a moral co-conspirator.

This is NOT supported by the facts as we know them. While it *might* come out that this is indeed the case, it is neither consistent with the known facts nor is it consistent with Paterno's character.
29 posted on 11/11/2011 7:51:03 PM PST by flintsilver7 (Honest reporting hasn't caught on in the United States.)
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To: flintsilver7
"they have been looking to get rid of him for years"

That is NOT TRUE. The majority of the Trustees and Board loved him because he was bringing in 30-40 Mill a year. How do you think Joe had so much power all of these years? Simple, the $$$$ he was bringing in while he would only take 1 Mill a year salary.

Ole Mr. Beaver is resting well in his grave. If he could talk, "There not gonna change my stadium name after this clown".

30 posted on 11/11/2011 7:56:24 PM PST by AGreatPer (Obama has NEVER given a speech where he did not lie!!!)
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To: Hoodat
This rioting illustrates that many college students aren't studying hard enough and are dumb as bricks as are the parents shelling out $30k or whatever PS goes for now.
31 posted on 11/11/2011 7:58:33 PM PST by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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To: Glenn
"There is one guilty person here."

There are more than one victim. Many more. It is the precise inaction of those who had direct, or even some degree of peripheral knowledge or suspcision led to the continued victimization of this predator. Even if Sandusky is the only actual child raper here (which I doubt), his enablers and protectors are at least partially culpable for the later molestations.

32 posted on 11/11/2011 8:00:36 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: flintsilver7

Please, don’t use character and Paterno in the same sentence. This guy is a disgrace. So you may be a “sports nut,” but you can’t sweep Paterno’s role under the rug “ for the good of collegiate sports.” It just isn’t going to wash. It is very telling that the accounts coming out of Penn State are to the effect that everyone knew about these acts, and knew about them for a decade or more. LIke Al Pacino said in The Scent of a Woman, “someone needs to take a flamethrower to this place!”


33 posted on 11/11/2011 8:03:15 PM PST by vette6387 (Enough Already!)
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To: Joe 6-pack

How about letting the presentation of evidence go forward in a court of law before you string up those you think had “peripheral knowledge”.


34 posted on 11/11/2011 8:04:48 PM PST by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: Ron C.
As more and more of this comes lit, please drop the crocodile tears and whining for poor old Joe.

Joe had an obligation every time stories of this came up to see if the source were credible, and if so report it to law enforcement.

Every time, no matter where the incident had occured.

Joe wasn't just the legendary coach at the university. Paterno was also on the board of The Second Mile, the charity from which the at risk boys were obtained. You can quit whining about poor old Joe.

35 posted on 11/11/2011 8:18:07 PM PST by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: Kackikat

Wow - thanks for the link. Jerry Sandusky got away with way too much.


36 posted on 11/11/2011 8:18:44 PM PST by Ron C.
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To: antceecee
"How about letting the presentation of evidence go forward in a court of law before you string up those you think had “peripheral knowledge”."

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were one of those people who equates, "legal" with "moral." There may be some overlap, but they are not the same thing. As I don't have the power to try or sentence McQueery, I needn't worry about rendering a legally sufficient opinion. I can base a personal judgment based on my own morality, and for that, I'll go off of McQueery's own Grand Jury Testimony, in which he freely acknowledges having witnessed a grown man raping a child, and walking away from it.

Similarly, I'll form a personal judgment from Paterno's own statement that he, "should have done more". In that, all I'm doing is agreeing with Paterno.

37 posted on 11/11/2011 8:23:10 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

Anyone who witnesses that involving anyone, put ESPECIALLY a child, and does not take action, has no soul!


38 posted on 11/11/2011 8:25:28 PM PST by gidget7 ("When a man assumes a public trust, he should consider himself as public property." Thomas Jefferson)
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To: skaterboy

ESPN commentators are probably members of NAMBLA.


39 posted on 11/11/2011 8:32:11 PM PST by OrioleFan
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To: All
THE SUN NEVER SETS ON FREE REPUBLIC!!!

"We are the resistance!!"



BUMP FOR NEW MONTHLY DONORS!

#101 PLEASE SIGN-UP HERE!


40 posted on 11/11/2011 8:32:11 PM PST by onyx (PLEASE SUPPORT FREE REPUBLIC BY DONATING NOW! Sarah's New Ping List - tell me if you want on it.)
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To: Joe 6-pack
No... I believe in proper justice as found in a court of law. I am not as versed as you feel you are of the intricate relationships between all of these players, but why not let it be tried properly in our established system of justice?

Or is it that you like a good lynching?

The crimes against these children were perpetrated by a single abuser. There is also someone who saw this first hand and did not call the police. The old guy is probably senile and can be fooled by anyone.

I don't watch football, don't know anything about Penn State, but do recognize a media lynching when I see one.

The cover up needs to be vetted in a court of law.

41 posted on 11/11/2011 8:32:15 PM PST by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: Zevonismymuse

Homosexuals want pederasty. John Maynard Keynes was a homosexual who had orgies and they brought boys to them—all the homosexuals passed them around. Man/boy “love” is as old as the Ancient Greeks and they glorified the behavior....it was the grooming of the boys into the behavior of homosexuality.

The “moral” aspect discussed by Plato....was “is it moral for the young lovers when they grow up to dump their “old” “lover” for much younger one.

Another thing: Homosexual acts are not “love”. The acts are lust and narcissism—never “love”.

Pederasty is a part of homosexuality. To glorify homosexuality is to glorify child abuse.

Their sick idea that if they “love” someone, they have to stick body parts into some obscene place is bizarre and Satanic. I love my kids more than anything and I certainly don’t have to do sick things to them to “show” love. Homosexuals are mentally ill and have been abused as children.


42 posted on 11/11/2011 8:36:32 PM PST by savagesusie
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To: antceecee
"The crimes against these children were perpetrated by a single abuser."

By your own standards, that's an extremely illogical and intellectually inconsistent statement since Sandusky hasn't yet been tried in a court of law. No "abuser" has been convicted of any "abuse." Right now Sandusky hasn't been found guilty of anything. He's out on bail, by the way, so you're free to call him up to watch your kids this weekend. Why wouldn't you? After all, he hasn't been vetted by a court of law.

If you wouldn't be willing to do that, is it possible you may have formed an opinion of him based on the information available? If that's the case, I've done no more than the same thing in the case of McQueary and Paterno...except that the information I have available as the basis of my judgment came from each of their own respective admissions and testimony!

43 posted on 11/11/2011 8:40:30 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
Anyone who witnesses something like this and does not immediately try to stop it is a worthless coward.

You need to read the thread I was just on. It will sicken you.

There are 4 FReepers -- NRG1973, Hellbender; TomB, and Two_Sheds -- who are VIGOROUSLY defending McQueary for doing nothing while he watched a 10-year-old boy get raped in front of his eyes.

Sadly, I don't know how to link you to that thread, but if you go straight to my posting history, you'll go straight there.

It's shocking to think that we have those who defend the worst sorts of moral cowards here on FR.

44 posted on 11/11/2011 8:41:02 PM PST by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: flintsilver7
I can tell you also that Paterno ISN’T Penn State. They are the corrupt Board of Trustees (who I called the Penn State Politburo). They are people like Terrell Jones and Graham Spanier. They are a bastion of corrupt and politically correct liberalism. The school would be a hell of a lot better off if it were just Paterno.

I keep wondering why and who gave Sandusky the emeritus position and thus the keys to the kingdom (ie locker room at Latch). Was it Spanier and the trustees? I wouldn't think JoePa could do something like that.

45 posted on 11/11/2011 8:41:17 PM PST by OrioleFan
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To: Joe 6-pack
You now are jumping the shark.

The story as I understand it:

Sandusky has been observed by a witnesss (MCQueary) sexually abusing a child.

Sandusky is the "abuser", McQueary is johnny-come-lately to reporting same and did nothing to protect the child.

The old guy Paterno was given a report after the fact by McQ and reported to higher ups. Higher ups in the University did NOTHING. All blame Paterno?

Why not let this unravel as to those who were not the abusers, yet perhaps the enablers? Testimony via Grand jury from what I understand from this, fingers Sandusky as the abuser.

So why are you against a full hearing in a court of law and INSTEAD seeking to string every person you view as part of this up in the nearest tree?

46 posted on 11/11/2011 8:53:48 PM PST by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: vette6387
He allowed it to be covered up. He is, therefore a moral co-conspirator. It was more important for him to salvage his “legacy” than protect some helpless children. He hasn’t yet suffered enough in my view!

The Grand Jury report shows that after reporting the information to Curly and Schultz (head of the University Police), Paterno was left out of all subsequent meetings between Curly, Schultz, McQuery, and Spanier. Schultz never passed the information along to his University Police. So in reality, Paterno did inform the University Police when he initially talked to Curly and Schultz. I think he has suffered more than enough. All the decision makers, and the witness were meeting and charting the course of action without Paterno's involvement.

47 posted on 11/11/2011 8:59:46 PM PST by OrioleFan
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To: Hoodat
it's this kind of mentality that brought them to this point... Team Uber alles

48 posted on 11/11/2011 9:05:01 PM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: antceecee
"Sandusky has been observed by a witnesss (MCQueary) sexually abusing a child....Sandusky is the "abuser", McQueary is johnny-come-lately to reporting same and did nothing to protect the child. "

Again, you need to liberally sprinkly the word "alleged" in there if you are to remain intellectually consistent. And you're only reinforcing my point. If McQueery's own testimony is accurate, he failed to intervene and allowed the abuse to continue while he slunked off to call his daddy. Now, I doubt in the strictest sense, he had a legal obligation to intervene, but if you can argue that a grown adult male, fully physically capable of doing so does not have a moral obligation to intervene we needn't continue this conversation because we're on two different planets. That is my contention. McQueary, by his very own testimony, did not intervene. I would argue he had a moral obligation to do so, and by his own words he did not. At least that night, he enabled Sandusky to wrap things up with that child. McQueary enabled the continued abuse of that boy.

"The old guy Paterno was given a report after the fact by McQ and reported to higher ups. Higher ups in the University did NOTHING. All blame Paterno?"

Paterno blamed Paterno!! After his cancelled press conference earlier in the week, Paterno addressed the matter and said he should have done more. That is a very, very direct implication he did not do enough, nor did he do everything within his power. There's really no other way to take it, and again, this is Paterno's very own admission. "Why not let this unravel as to those who were not the abusers, yet perhaps the enablers? Testimony via Grand jury from what I understand from this, fingers Sandusky as the abuser...So why are you against a full hearing in a court of law and INSTEAD seeking to string every person you view as part of this up in the nearest tree?"

It's going to unravel whether I let it or not. And what have I said or even implied that suggests I'm not entirely desirous of seeing this played out in a legal forum? But, above and beyond the criminal charges and trials, I can think of few recent situations in our society that call out for strong moral condemnation, even if not all the players are guilty of having violated the elements of strict criminal charges. Again, I will direct you to my earlier contention that what is legal and what is moral are not always the same things. There are wide ranges of behaviors that are completely legal, but can and should be judged as immoral or unethical. I think in this case, there's going to be plenty of both (illegal and immoral) behavior to go around.

49 posted on 11/11/2011 9:13:02 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Joe 6-pack

Nice to see you are able to have a mature conversation about this without personal attacks there Joe! I am hardly a liberal in that I do believe in our rights to a trial by jury and not media. Sorry to see you don’t, I thought you were a conservative, sad to see you are just like the lib mad dogs in the media.


50 posted on 11/11/2011 9:28:00 PM PST by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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