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To Save Our Economy, Ditch Taiwan (NYT op-ed)
New York Times ^ | PAUL V. KANE | PAUL V. KANE

Posted on 11/11/2011 7:48:23 PM PST by reaganaut1

WITH a single bold act, President Obama could correct the country’s course, help assure his re-election, and preserve our children’s future.

He needs to redefine America’s mindset about national security away from the old defense mentality that American power derives predominantly from our military might, rather than from the strength, agility and competitiveness of our economy. He should make it clear that today American jobs and wealth matter more than military prowess.

As Adm. Mike Mullen, then chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, declared last year, “The most significant threat to our national security is our debt.”

There are dozens of initiatives President Obama could undertake to strengthen our economic security. Here is one: He should enter into closed-door negotiations with Chinese leaders to write off the $1.14 trillion of American debt currently held by China in exchange for a deal to end American military assistance and arms sales to Taiwan and terminate the current United States-Taiwan defense arrangement by 2015.

This would be a most precious prize to the cautious men in Beijing, one they would give dearly to achieve. After all, our relationship with Taiwan, as revised in 1979, is a vestige of the cold war.

Today, America has little strategic interest in Taiwan, which is gradually integrating with China economically by investing in and forming joint ventures with mainland Chinese firms. The island’s absorption into mainland China is inevitable.

But the status quo is dangerous; if Taiwanese nationalist politicians decided to declare independence or if Beijing’s hawks tired of waiting for integration and moved to take Taiwan by force, America could suddenly be drawn into a multitrillion-dollar war.

There will be “China hawks” who denounce any deal on Taiwan as American capitulation, but their fear of a Red China menacing Asia is anachronistic.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial
KEYWORDS: backstab; careermilitary; lifer; remf; sellout; taiwan; traitor
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This is awful even for the NYT. There is such a thing as national honor. The author is a Marine, according to the byline.
1 posted on 11/11/2011 7:48:25 PM PST by reaganaut1
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To: reaganaut1

Let’s sacrifice millions of people in a deal with the evil empire. Wow.


2 posted on 11/11/2011 7:49:54 PM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: reaganaut1

Liberals want us to sell out Taiwan so the ChiComs will forgive our debt. They’re bottom feeding scum.


3 posted on 11/11/2011 7:50:39 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: reaganaut1

dunham to unionize the military...
http://theulstermanreport.com/2011/11/11/is-barack-obama-already-initiating-plan-to-unionize-the-united-states-military/


4 posted on 11/11/2011 7:51:58 PM PST by biggredd1
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To: reaganaut1
Paul V. Kane, a former international security fellow at the Harvard Kennedy School, is a Marine who served in Iraq.

This proposal had to have come from an Ivy Leaguer, and it did.

5 posted on 11/11/2011 7:55:56 PM PST by Will88
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To: TigersEye

Pei-Ping.


6 posted on 11/11/2011 7:56:16 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: reaganaut1
The author may be a Marine but that doesn't mean he knows anything about macro-foreign policy. This idea is self-defeating on its face, and would do irreparable harm to US security interests. No ally would ever trust us again. Israel would be next on the chopping block. Iraq and Afghan obviously will be gone before they even leave, anyway, but this would only hasten their demise. China would be seen as the dominant emerging power, which will cripple India as a partner to balance Peking.

This idiot has about as much cred as the Pulitzer winning Walter Durante who told us the Soviets never imprisoned anybody for political crimes. And the slugs and invertebrates of Manhattan believed him.

Oh well, life in the stagnant coastal backwater of NYawk.

7 posted on 11/11/2011 7:57:23 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: reaganaut1
...but their fear of a Red China menacing Asia is anachronistic.

Well, then, I suppose that most of China's neighbours are participating in anachronism.
8 posted on 11/11/2011 7:57:53 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: reaganaut1

The author’s friends should be nervous since the author is likely to screw his friends to save his own hide.


9 posted on 11/11/2011 7:59:33 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: Will88

I like my proposal much better: Send China an invoice for $1 trillion plus for three decades of patent violations, copyright violations, reverse engineering, product counterfeiting, product copying, industrial and military espionage, and other similar cheating and stealing.

Start calling this corrupt, criminal nation what it is.


10 posted on 11/11/2011 8:00:13 PM PST by Will88
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To: reaganaut1
There are dozens of initiatives President Obama could undertake to strengthen our economic security. Here is one: He should enter into closed-door negotiations with Chinese leaders to write off the $1.14 trillion of American debt currently held by China in exchange for a deal to end American military assistance and arms sales to Taiwan and terminate the current United States-Taiwan defense arrangement by 2015.

Translation: We can enhance our economic well-being by simply selling out our core principles.

For those who have very little concept of honor (and certainly no thought that the US might be imbued with any such thing), such a sellout would probably not be especially difficult...

11 posted on 11/11/2011 8:00:34 PM PST by AmericanExceptionalist (Democrats believe in discussing the full spectrum of ideas, all the way from far left to center-left)
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To: reaganaut1

“Take my little girl.” Sophie

“Sophie’s Choice”

The New York Times is truly ignoble, rapacious and, well, a pickled version of a newspaper.


12 posted on 11/11/2011 8:01:26 PM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: reaganaut1

Am not a fan of our defense pact with Taiwan but damn! This is one of the ugliest proposals that have been published regarding the debt crisis.


13 posted on 11/11/2011 8:02:25 PM PST by KantianBurke (Where was the Tea Party when Dubya was spending like a drunken sailor?)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

ping


14 posted on 11/11/2011 8:05:11 PM PST by Jet Jaguar
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To: reaganaut1

This man is a fool.


15 posted on 11/11/2011 8:06:12 PM PST by hc87
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To: reaganaut1
Maybe BO could sale the island of Manhattan back to the Indians and throw in NY too.
16 posted on 11/11/2011 8:06:18 PM PST by guitarplayer1953 (Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to GOD! Thomas Jefferson)
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To: reaganaut1

What rock did this guy crawl out from under.

Obama is already making himself famous as a betrayer of allies. Why the hell would anyone want to be our ally with a traitor like that in the White House? By the time he is through, we won’t have a friend left anywhere in the world, nor a military to defend ourselves with.

It is hard to see how this can be anything but deliberate. And of course the America-hating NY Times wants to encourage it.


17 posted on 11/11/2011 8:07:43 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius.)
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To: reaganaut1

To save our economy, ditch SOCIALISM.

That would include public schools, student loans by the government, Fannie and Freddie, SS and all those departments that are NOT enumerated in the Constitution, INCLUDING the FED.

That would fix a lot of this economy.


18 posted on 11/11/2011 8:09:00 PM PST by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: goldstategop

At the rate we are borrowing money and spending it, China can get her way by using debt forgiveness as a weapon. Read some of the commentary from Chinese think tanks (which mirrors official viewpoints). They even did a White Paper (that was translated into English by the CIA) shortly after the Iraq War, which China projected starting in 2013 US deficit spending will impact US ability to finance military power. They did not even factor the Wall Street meltdown in its calculations. China is the first to observe the unsustainable deficit spending of the American people since the late 1990’s. Why do you think they opted for a huge national surplus? Rainy day fund?? Sort of, but more like using the pile of money to achieve strategic goals.
Read how Scotland became part of Britain after her financial fiasco in trying to create a passage from Caribbean to Pacific via Panama. Over 2/3 of Scotland’s wealth was invested in the venture which failed. Britain simply stepped in to cover the losses provided Scotland becomes part of Britain or else face the consequences of a national financial collapse. If China can forgive 1.1 trillion in debt or face national financial meltdown, giving up Taiwan may be the US only choice.


19 posted on 11/11/2011 8:09:52 PM PST by Fee
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To: reaganaut1

Adm. Mike Mullen has since retired.


20 posted on 11/11/2011 8:10:14 PM PST by fight_truth_decay (No Tag)
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To: reaganaut1

Adm. Mike Mullen has since retired.


21 posted on 11/11/2011 8:10:20 PM PST by fight_truth_decay (No Tag)
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To: reaganaut1

Can’t we just ditch NYC instead?


22 posted on 11/11/2011 8:11:50 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: reaganaut1

I’m amazed this buffoon didn’t start with Israel and then do Taiwan


23 posted on 11/11/2011 8:12:11 PM PST by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: reaganaut1

I’m hoping some Tawainese mobsters pay the author a visit.


24 posted on 11/11/2011 8:14:19 PM PST by matt1234 (Bring back the HUAC.)
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To: reaganaut1

FU-NYT!!!


25 posted on 11/11/2011 8:16:38 PM PST by SIDENET ("If that's your best, your best won't do." -Dee Snider)
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To: reaganaut1

I’ve got a better plan. Why don’t we tell the Chinese government that if they don’t write down our debt we’ll establish branches of Harvard University, the Democratic Party, SEIU and the New York Times in China. Then they can suffer from the same idiotic ideas that poison our political thinking. We can throw in Paul Krugman to close the deal.


26 posted on 11/11/2011 8:19:02 PM PST by freeandfreezing
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To: reaganaut1

Someone needs to tell this idiot to put the bong down for an hour or two.


27 posted on 11/11/2011 8:20:33 PM PST by Psycho_Bunny (Public employee unions are the barbarian hordes of our time.)
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To: reaganaut1; bruinbirdman; Grampa Dave; ntnychik; nuconvert; dixiechick2000; Alamo-Girl
China which has aborted tens of millions of girl babies and has a male-heavy populace it can neither feed nor employ.

China which murdered 2,000 peaceful democracy advocates in Tiananmen Square June 4, 1989.

China which now lays claim to the sea for hundreds of miles daring any neighbor or nation to transit let alone seek its resources.

China which sends tens of thousands of tons of precursors to Mexican superlabs to become the river of Mexican methedrine flowing into CONUS.

The New York Times which fought the Vietnam War for the Communists now does their propaganda work for free.

China which has stolen so much--(charge them for the warhead data Wen Ho Lee gave them, for the missile know-how Armstrong and Schwartz gave them)--

--now says through the fairies at the old gray drag queen,

"Be Judas; it's okay--then all this unpleasantness will go away"

Taiwan does not belong to China. Only thirteen years in three millenia.

It is mostly indigenous, not Chinese.

It is democratic and an ally.

The New York Times is a nest traitors. Confiscate its presses and imprison its staff as enemy combatants.

Carter betrayed Taiwan once--now is China's best shot at Taiwan, before Down-Low Gaga is defeated.

Better hurry with that wag op, Barry--


28 posted on 11/11/2011 8:20:38 PM PST by PhilDragoo (Hussein: Islamo-Commie from Kenya)
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To: reaganaut1
The NY Slimes was knowing and silent while Joe Stalin murdered 66 million Russians.

They are consistent Marxists.

29 posted on 11/11/2011 8:21:45 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it. (plagiarized))
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To: reaganaut1

Can America keep Taiwan safe from China forever?

If so, fine.
If not, then perhaps the best thing is to allow integration.

The China today is not the China 20 years ago.
Has Hong Kong suffered from being re-integration?


30 posted on 11/11/2011 8:23:19 PM PST by Jonty30
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To: reaganaut1

Yet another blast from the past. If Ayers and Davis meant anything to O, abandoning Taiwan is already on O’s to do list.


31 posted on 11/11/2011 8:30:06 PM PST by JimSEA (The future ain't what it used to be.)
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To: Jonty30

how about we give it another 20 years, then see? Just in case Taiwan is a slightly different matter to the ChiComs. And is Mommy’s Little Man really the guy to broker a deal like this?


32 posted on 11/11/2011 8:35:55 PM PST by cdcdawg
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To: goldstategop
Liberals want us to sell out Taiwan so the ChiComs will forgive our debt. They’re bottom feeding scum.

Wonder how the NYT would respond to a proposal to revive our economy by invading Cuba and seizing the island for ourselves?

33 posted on 11/11/2011 8:36:26 PM PST by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance On Parade)
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To: cdcdawg

Definitely.

Don’t let Obama being the one to lead any discussions on integration.


34 posted on 11/11/2011 8:40:22 PM PST by Jonty30
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To: Jonty30

Is English your native language?


35 posted on 11/11/2011 9:02:43 PM PST by meatloaf (It's time to push back against out of control government.)
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To: goldstategop

Isn’t selling honor for money considered prostitution.


36 posted on 11/11/2011 9:04:00 PM PST by freedomrings69
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To: Army Air Corps

0bozo might be immoral enough to take a proposal like this seriously but the Chinese themselves would never go for it. Their economic fortunes are more intricately tied to the U.S. than simply possessing our treasury notes. The Taiwan situation is undoubtedly a little more complicated than this simplistic tradeoff idea makes it sound too.


37 posted on 11/11/2011 9:12:28 PM PST by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: reaganaut1

This is a clear example of The NYT getting it’s Marching orders from PEKING.


38 posted on 11/11/2011 9:20:07 PM PST by LtKerst (Lt Kerst)
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To: meatloaf

Yes, but I’m working through my cellphone, as opposed to my computer.

I’m going to make a mess of things once in a while. :)


39 posted on 11/11/2011 9:23:47 PM PST by Jonty30
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To: reaganaut1

On behalf of my good friends from Taiwan, I hereby turn my back on the NYT and fart in its general direction.


40 posted on 11/11/2011 9:28:16 PM PST by married21 (As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.)
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To: PhilDragoo

Thanks for the ping!


41 posted on 11/11/2011 9:32:31 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Jonty30
Has Hong Kong suffered from being re-integration?

Not the right question. For Hong Kong or Taiwan. Let me school you.

American military power is for the defense of America, American interests, including economic interests, America's allies and, yes, America's global hegemony, commonly called "The West", which makes America safe worldwide against the rise of rivals and those who envy and would undermine America in the absence of the credible threat of massive force. That is the reality of the world.

Yes, we believe that people are better off by being part of "The West". The people of Hong Kong may be making money - by exporting stuff to "The West". But can they freely speak their minds? Can they freely come and go? This is our raison d'etre but these are still not the right questions in realpolitik.

The essential question is would it be a loss to "The West" and an enhancement to a potential rival? If the answer is "Yes", then the strategic value of every part as a bulwark is far greater than just its individual intrinsic economic or social value. One could just as well ask whether it is worth a World War over San Diego or any other single American city that an enemy might demand in exchange for temporary "peace", as to ask that about Taiwan or Tokyo.

Has Hong Kong, a beachhead on the Asian continent, been a gain to a rival and a loss to the power, economic as well as military, of "The West"? The answer is emphatically yes. And hundreds of thousands leaving before its transfer and millions of others denied that opportunity testify to which side of the line is more desirable.

While the issue of Hong Kong had the veneer of legality - its "lease" had expired and a 50-year "transition" had been negotiated - the abandonment of Taiwan would have no such rationale and would shake confidence in America worldwide, a confidence that is the reciprocal for being an ally and part of "The West". While few may rush to join our greatest adversaries, at some point, "The West" could fracture into multiple mutually suspicious and hostile spheres, such as existed before WWI and WWII. That could lead to another World War rather than ease tensions. The unity of "The West" under American leadership, stitched together from WWII and the Cold War, is far too valuable to sacrifice to temporarily appease a potential enemy, as Neville Chamberlain was taught in 1938 and 1939.

As far as the debt to China, even if the current bill were marked "PAID", we would likely just run up another one. And then whose liberty would we trade for it? Trading people for money is sometimes forced but to do it cynically and straight up undermines the very principles the created "The West" that made it different and better than anything else contemporaneous or that has gone before. That is a threat to America that simply cannot be countenanced.
42 posted on 11/11/2011 9:33:17 PM PST by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (REPEAL WASHINGTON! -- Islam Delenda Est! -- I Want Constantinople Back. -- Rumble thee forth.)
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To: reaganaut1; All

“But the status quo is dangerous; if Taiwanese nationalist politicians decided to declare independence or if Beijing’s hawks tired of waiting for integration and moved to take Taiwan by force, America could suddenly be drawn into a multitrillion-dollar war.”

If “RED” China chooses such a bellecose action then war with them is called for, and we should execute in aggressively. America would NO honour if we allowed China to conquer Taiwan.

China wants to conquer this country and supplant us on the world stage. They will do it both economically and militarily. We cannot afford to be lax on either front. We are already in serious problems in regards to our debt to China...this needs to be remedied, but we must maintain a strong an viable military because IF we remedy the economic, they will sooner use the military option.

It is in the United States short and long term interests to help maintain a free Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea. Should those countries help bear the cost....of course. However, we should NEVER abandon them. To do so is to invite Chinese agression.


43 posted on 11/11/2011 9:43:08 PM PST by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: reaganaut1

I thought that what happened to Czechoslovakia at Munich was the high point of national perfidy, I could be wrong. That the Times would publish this BS speaks volumes.


44 posted on 11/11/2011 9:56:23 PM PST by Mike Darancette (999er for Cain.)
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To: hinckley buzzard

Japan would immediately develop its own atomic bomb.


45 posted on 11/11/2011 10:39:01 PM PST by kabar
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To: goldstategop

Let’s see, 1.14T of debt forgiveness would just about balance this year’s budget but would do nothing to reduce the 14T+ total Federal debt....sell out an ally in order to kick the debt can down the road for a little while longer. What a lying piece of used dog food. This will do nothing to cure our economic woes as it does not address the fundamental problem of our spending more than we take in. It does nothing to enhance our security as it emboldens China in that we can be bought...no ally is safe if the price is right.


46 posted on 11/11/2011 11:25:49 PM PST by yadent
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To: reaganaut1
How would 1 Trillion Dollars save our economy? Other than guaranteeing that Taiwan declares independence after it buys nuclear weapons from someone (Iran, Ukraine, Russia, Israel) secure its peace, what is gained? The US looks weak.
Alternatively, lets say Taiwan can't procure nukes, and is invaded, we look even weaker and all the Asia is destabilized. We start lossing allies left and right and people begin to rethink the whole US currency as the international currency deal. We loose a lot more than 1 Trillion.
47 posted on 11/11/2011 11:27:55 PM PST by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: PhilDragoo
Taiwan is not mostly indigenous. While only 15% of the population are Nationalist refugees and descendants, 83% are benshengren, or native Chinese. Only 1% to 2% are the the Taiwanese aborigines; the Amis, Atayal, Bunun, Paiwan. There is some intermarriage so the numbers are not precise.

I happen to support an independent Taiwan because it is not mainland China. If there can be two Koreas, which share a lot more, and the US and Canada can be independent, Taiwan and China can be separate nations.
48 posted on 11/11/2011 11:35:03 PM PST by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: reaganaut1; GeronL; goldstategop
I agree with the one line Taiwan.. is gradually integrating with China economically by investing in and forming joint ventures with mainland Chinese firms

Taiwan has been playing us for fools while building up the Chinese economy -- they are one of the largest investors on the mainland.

They are not our allies.

We should stick to our real friends -- Japan, South Korea, Australia -- the Taiwanese sealed their own faith.

49 posted on 11/11/2011 11:44:01 PM PST by Cronos
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To: reaganaut1

“The author is a Marine, according to the byline.”

That $1.14 trillion of American debt represents about 10 months of deficit spending at current rates. That seems like a pretty cheap price to sell out a friend.

To come to think of it, wasn’t John Murtha a Marine?


50 posted on 11/11/2011 11:57:51 PM PST by haroldeveryman
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