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Brutal: Cain blanks on Libya, supports collective bargaining for public employee unions
Hotair ^ | Monday November 14, 2011

Posted on 11/14/2011 2:59:28 PM PST by Bigtigermike

You won’t believe me until you click play but this is much worse than Perry’s brain lock at the debate last week. Perry lost his train of thought; Cain doesn’t have a train at all here, to the point where he needs confirmation from the interviewer of what Obama’s position on Libya actually was.

Eventually he produces some boilerplate about not supporting the opposition until you’re sure who’s in it and of course not making a decision as president until he has all the information, which is a standard Cain fallback talking point whenever he gets in trouble on a question, but the first two minutes or so are pure agony. The board actually took pity on him, I think, by not following up.

And that still only barely qualifies as the worst answer he gave today. Here’s what he told them when asked, predictably enough, about Scott Walker’s righteous crusade against public employee unions:

"On the issue of collective bargaining, Cain said he supported the right of public employees to bargain collectively." But not collective hijacking. What I mean by that, if they have gotten so much for so many years and it’s going to bankrupt the state, I don’t think that’s good. It appears that in some instances, they really don’t care.”…

Cain also appeared to be unclear on the issue of collective bargaining as it involves federal employees. Asked if he thought federal employees should have the ability to bargain collectively, Cain said: “They already have it, don’t they?”

(Excerpt) Read more at hotair.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2012; cain; duplicate; frontrunner; hermancain; liberalsafraid; libya; notreadyforprimetime; trueconservative; wingingit
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1 posted on 11/14/2011 2:59:30 PM PST by Bigtigermike
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To: Bigtigermike
Spreading the BS with a coal shovel.
2 posted on 11/14/2011 3:01:56 PM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Perry and his fellow demorats.)
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To: Bigtigermike

Yaaaawwwwn. Next post.


3 posted on 11/14/2011 3:07:27 PM PST by CainConservative
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To: Bigtigermike

Cain has made a lot of gaffes, especially on foreign policy. This will be used against him should he get the nomination. The Dem ads will show clips of him making erroneous statements and say he’s unprepared to be President. I like Cain but I want a winner, and I’m beginning to think Newt may be the guy. Nobody on the stage knows policy as much as him.


4 posted on 11/14/2011 3:07:40 PM PST by Signalman
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To: Bigtigermike
I've been saying for months that Cain just isn't presidential mettle. He shoots from the hip when he's unsure, and that is just way too dangerous for the guy with his finger on the button.

It ain't him, babe. No way.

5 posted on 11/14/2011 3:09:21 PM PST by Gargantua (Sarah Palin in 2012 ~ "BUCK UP OR STAY IN THE TRUCK!")
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To: CainConservative
Tell me you're kidding. That's what you want for president?
6 posted on 11/14/2011 3:10:50 PM PST by Gargantua (Sarah Palin in 2012 ~ "BUCK UP OR STAY IN THE TRUCK!")
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To: Bigtigermike

I’m not selling Cain Kool-Aide. I do support Cain. But: if it is the intent to say that Cain was caught on this answer in some kind of fog, I disagree. Watch the thing. He takes his time. He will not be suckered into snap answers on the Libya question. Let’s all go the first sources, please.


7 posted on 11/14/2011 3:11:10 PM PST by jobim
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To: Bigtigermike

It’s real simple, Herman. Is it in our national interest to get involved in Libya? I’d say no. Were we in danger of imminent attack? No. Was there a declaration of war? No.


8 posted on 11/14/2011 3:12:46 PM PST by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: Signalman

The republicans have a storehouse full of Obozo’s gaffes.


9 posted on 11/14/2011 3:12:51 PM PST by boomop1
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To: Bigtigermike

I watched it, there was no “brain freeze” by Cain.

His point that Obama never investigated the Libyan opposition before supporting them is correct.

At the beginning of the interview, Cain was trying not to get caught in a “gotcha” question by the MSM, that’s why he paused and asked them to state specifically which aspect of Obama’s action in Libya they were asking whether he agreed with.


10 posted on 11/14/2011 3:13:57 PM PST by Meet the New Boss
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To: jobim

the video was painful to watch, but he did get the correct answer surmised. Who exactly was the Opposition and should we be supporting them? At the same time how to deal with Ghadaffi? Yes, it’s complicated and complex than just a simple yes or not answer.


11 posted on 11/14/2011 3:14:29 PM PST by parksstp (Articulate Conservatives look for Converts. RINO's look for Democrat Heretics.)
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To: Bigtigermike
If this gets posted 4 more times maybe we get eggrolls...
12 posted on 11/14/2011 3:15:36 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Gargantua

Who is your candidate in the race? (This oughta be good.)


13 posted on 11/14/2011 3:17:12 PM PST by CainConservative
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To: Signalman

I always liked Newt and I am beginning to think that he is the go-to guy. I am worried about how the media butchered him back in the 90s.


14 posted on 11/14/2011 3:18:29 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.)
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To: ejonesie22

LOL! The fear Cain beating their candidate and Obama — so I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they don’t post it over and over and over and....


15 posted on 11/14/2011 3:19:25 PM PST by CainConservative
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To: ejonesie22

LOL! The fear Cain beating their candidate and Obama — so I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they don’t post it over and over and over and....


16 posted on 11/14/2011 3:19:25 PM PST by CainConservative
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To: Bigtigermike
If he is not clear on Collective Bargaining for Public Employees...Conservative BEDROCK boys and girls...then he isn't fit to serve under the GOP banner.

Nothing else withstanding.

17 posted on 11/14/2011 3:20:08 PM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Bigtigermike

Here is what Cain said, minus Allapundit’s spin (who has always been anti-Cain)

His words:

“I would have done a better job of determining who the opposition is. And I’m sure our intelligence people had some of that information. Based upon who made up that opposition… might have caused me to make some different decisions about how we participated. Secondly, no I did not agree with (Moammar) Gadhafi killing his citizens. Absolutely not. I would have supported many of the things that they did to help stop that.”

Cain said the question of America’s involvement in Libya was not a simple yes or no question. “I would have gone about assessing the situation differently. It might have caused us to end up in the same place.”

_________

On the issue of collective bargaining, Cain said he supported the right of public employees to bargain collectively.

“But not collective hijacking. What I mean by that, if they have gotten so much for so many years and it’s going to bankrupt the state, I don’t think that’s good. It appears that in some instances, they really don’t care.”

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/cain-backs-collective-bargaining-for-public-employees-l931tg4-133828808.html
_______
CAIN IS NOT PRO UNION

Herman Cain at the I Stand with Scott Walker rally:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijx6ryJtvII
________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijx6ryJtvII
Employee Free Choice Act is really forced unionization
The federal government impedes economic growth by interfering in the employer and employee relationship. While labor unions once provided a representative body to lobby for fair wages and safe working conditions, they now principally serve as a political mechanism for the Left. Forced unionization through the dishonestly named “Employee Free Choice Act,” or “card check,” would drive up the costs of goods & services, cause jobs to be lost and a more powerful system of liberal fundraising to be maintained.
Source: Campaign website, www.hermancain.com/ “Issues” , May 21, 2011

_________

Card-Check is union intimidation, not free choice
When someone takes the time to actually read the proposed “Card Check” legislation (H.R. 800), you will discover that many of the proponents of this legislation have lied.

Currently, the employees vote directly twice, one of which is the secret ballot, and a third time through their bargaining representatives. Under the proposed rules, the employees would sign a card and then they are totally out of the process from that point on. Proponents think that’s “free choice.”

Proponents have also alleged that employers intimidate employees into not joining a union. That’s ridiculous, because most employers work at trying to keep their workers happy for competitive reasons and because it enhances employee morale. I personally know of many more stories of union intimidation of employees than instances of employer intimidation.

Workers have every right to unionize if they choose to do so, but employers have some rights also. They have the right to simply shut the doors.
Source: Political column, THE New Voice, “Card Check Lies” , Feb 9, 2009

__________

Union Bosses Unleash On Herman Cain For Targeting Unions’ Sacred Cows
To qualify for zone status under Cain’s plan, a given jurisdiction will have to enact policies the unions consider anathema – such as the elimination of the minimum wage, the provision of school vouchers, or the declaration of a zone as a “right-to-work” area.

Leading figures in organized labor swiftly attacked the Cain proposal.

Teamsters General President Jim Hoffa told Fox News in an emailed statement: “Herman Cain’s ‘Opportunity Zones’ appear to be an opportunity for corporate America to exploit workers and turn the United States into a third-world country.”
http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport/2011/10/20/union-bosses-unleash-on-herman-cain-for-targeting-unions-sacred-cows/
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Cain stumbles on Libya question (Also, Backs Collective Bargaining for Public Employees)
Mon Nov 14 17:40:10 2011 · 5 of 52
justsaynomore to TitansAFC

Herman Cain at the I Stand with Scott Walker rally:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijx6ryJtvII
________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijx6ryJtvII
Employee Free Choice Act is really forced unionization
The federal government impedes economic growth by interfering in the employer and employee relationship. While labor unions once provided a representative body to lobby for fair wages and safe working conditions, they now principally serve as a political mechanism for the Left. Forced unionization through the dishonestly named “Employee Free Choice Act,” or “card check,” would drive up the costs of goods & services, cause jobs to be lost and a more powerful system of liberal fundraising to be maintained.
Source: Campaign website, www.hermancain.com/ “Issues” , May 21, 2011

_________

Card-Check is union intimidation, not free choice
When someone takes the time to actually read the proposed “Card Check” legislation (H.R. 800), you will discover that many of the proponents of this legislation have lied.

Currently, the employees vote directly twice, one of which is the secret ballot, and a third time through their bargaining representatives. Under the proposed rules, the employees would sign a card and then they are totally out of the process from that point on. Proponents think that’s “free choice.”

Proponents have also alleged that employers intimidate employees into not joining a union. That’s ridiculous, because most employers work at trying to keep their workers happy for competitive reasons and because it enhances employee morale. I personally know of many more stories of union intimidation of employees than instances of employer intimidation.

Workers have every right to unionize if they choose to do so, but employers have some rights also. They have the right to simply shut the doors.
Source: Political column, THE New Voice, “Card Check Lies” , Feb 9, 2009

__________

Union Bosses Unleash On Herman Cain For Targeting Unions’ Sacred Cows
To qualify for zone status under Cain’s plan, a given jurisdiction will have to enact policies the unions consider anathema – such as the elimination of the minimum wage, the provision of school vouchers, or the declaration of a zone as a “right-to-work” area.

Leading figures in organized labor swiftly attacked the Cain proposal.

Teamsters General President Jim Hoffa told Fox News in an emailed statement: “Herman Cain’s ‘Opportunity Zones’ appear to be an opportunity for corporate America to exploit workers and turn the United States into a third-world country.”
http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport/2011/10/20/union-bosses-unleash-on-herman-cain-for-targeting-unions-sacred-cows/


18 posted on 11/14/2011 3:21:08 PM PST by justsaynomore (http://teamcain.hermancain.com)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Nope. Newt has too much baggage. Forget the personal issues. He supported health mandates, like Obama. He was on the couch with Pelosi...not good for the smartest man in the room. And, he took money from Fannie and Freddie. The Dems will hammer him on this.


19 posted on 11/14/2011 3:22:24 PM PST by chilepup
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To: Bigtigermike
Sorry, this is not the "gotcha" that some over at HotAir claim it is. It's a tough question, definitely in a gray area and there simply is no obvious, strong answer. I bet Romney, a practiced politician, could come up with something that sounds a lot better, but ultimately I trust Cain's judgement more.
20 posted on 11/14/2011 3:22:39 PM PST by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: ejonesie22

This is Hugh and series, and already posted


21 posted on 11/14/2011 3:23:05 PM PST by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! 10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government)
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To: Bigtigermike
"to the point where he needs confirmation from the interviewer of what Obama’s position on Libya actually was"

I didn't know what position or why Obama was in Libya. All his muslim buddies, like Farrakhan, loved Gaddifi. Obama got his orders from elsewhere......Obama was just following the bouncing ball.

All I know is the result in Libya will be Al Queda at the helm. Obama wants an unified Islamic caliphate.......Cain is right.
22 posted on 11/14/2011 3:23:26 PM PST by Electric Graffiti (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their Moonbats)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Don’t worry about him being attacked..count on it.


23 posted on 11/14/2011 3:23:36 PM PST by stillafreemind
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To: parksstp

They wanted a newt answer where he explains the twenty different ways to look at the Libyan situation. Do you wish to discuss it historically, do you wish to discuss the oil in Libya, do you wish to discuss what daffys blond daughter looks like. Do you wish to talk about about his all female guards. Maybe you could make that twenty five different ways to discuss the Libyan situation. Etc. Sit down this could take some time.


24 posted on 11/14/2011 3:23:53 PM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Perry and his fellow demorats.)
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To: jobim
Wow, people are eviscerating him both on this post and on Hotair. I saw it four times and honestly cannot see what the big deal is. it looks to me like a sit down conversation where ideas and comments are not framed in 30 second soundbites. Does he have a full grasp of all the issues? Well Romney does and no one wants him. People are quick to judge one's ability to provide the answer that will dovetail with their ideas and emotions. When one doe not get the answer desired. Burn him at the stake! Herman Cain is a citizen politician and he is not as polished and slippery with his mouth like the rest of them are.

People have got to chill!!

25 posted on 11/14/2011 3:25:41 PM PST by bubman
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To: bubman

Six threads on this. The MSM wants to get rid of Cain as soon as possible. *yawn*


26 posted on 11/14/2011 3:27:50 PM PST by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! 10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government)
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To: Bigtigermike

Oh dear, will they stop at nothing? All the Obamabots or Romneybots are not doing America any good with their lies. Here is my take on the media:

We are at war on a different battlefield here!

Obama and his Evil ilk against Christian Conservatives! If Evil can beat us on this turf, they will beat us in 2012! So the biggest battle is going on right now! Will Evil conquer Good?

It is up to us! Let us hope the American voter will win by electing the man who frightens Evil the most!

Vote for the man with the plan who can, the only man who can save the country from eternal rank Evil! Turn back to God! There are more of us than there are of them! And greater is He who is in us that he who is in the world!

Please stand by the man they fear the most, Herman Cain!

Mark Levin is on right now. I wonder if he will mention the results of his GOP poll where Cain lead at 55^%, Gingrich at 41$, and Romney at 4% last night at 6:30 with 23,188 total votes at that point.

Also Gloria Cain is to be on Greta tonight.;


27 posted on 11/14/2011 3:28:11 PM PST by Paperdoll (II like Herman Cain)
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To: Paperdoll

12,188 votes, that is.


28 posted on 11/14/2011 3:29:36 PM PST by Paperdoll (II like Herman Cain)
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To: bubman

He settles on one point re Libya: that Obama didn’t do a thorough job of assessing the situation, especially with regard to the opposition to Khadaffi.
But then at the end of it he is asked if he thought Obama didn’t do a good job of that, he says “I don’t know” if he did or not.


29 posted on 11/14/2011 3:31:44 PM PST by Lady Lucky
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To: Gargantua

>> and that is just way too dangerous for the guy with his finger on the button.

Hyperbole.


30 posted on 11/14/2011 3:33:04 PM PST by Gene Eric (Save a pretzel for the gas jet.)
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To: Bigtigermike

Oh my goodness, that was painful. No way is he qualified for the Presidency, no way.


31 posted on 11/14/2011 3:37:53 PM PST by annieokie
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To: Bigtigermike

HotAir is not exactly a reliable site these days.


32 posted on 11/14/2011 3:38:03 PM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Until they rip him down.

Prepare for stories about how he told his dying wife that he wanted a divorce -- probably with interviews of the dying wife.

33 posted on 11/14/2011 3:39:35 PM PST by Tribune7 (If you demand perfection you will wind up with leftist Democrats)
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To: Signalman

Newt is not a conservative. He is a big government RINO who just wants it to be more efficient. He thinks global warming is a real crisis, he thinks Dede Scozzafava is a good candidate and he thinks Freddie Mac is a “model organization”. He also liked the individual health mandate.


34 posted on 11/14/2011 3:39:46 PM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: justsaynomore

Bump


35 posted on 11/14/2011 3:44:22 PM PST by NoLibZone (Sexual Harassment:men touching themselves while wearing only jock straps,gyrating on a parade float)
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To: Bigtigermike

The stuttering at the beginning was bad, but his overall answer on Libya was a good one. The US and Obama didn’t assess the opposition enough and now its abundantly clear there are al Qaeda elements and islamic radicals all over the Libyan opposition. The Libyan new president has said Sharia will be the basis of all law in their country.


36 posted on 11/14/2011 3:48:22 PM PST by bigdirty
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To: Bigtigermike
Jeez Louise! The guy had total brain-lock--far worse than Perry on a far more important topic. At best, the Cain looked like a student who has been cramming to pass an exam and who's brain is suddenly overloaded with all of the information he's been trying to learn to pass--he even said as much when he said ". . . got all this stuff twirlin' around in my head . . ."

Being President isn't like trying to pass a test, you have to have a formulated policy framework already fully developed. As we have seen from Obama, there's no room for on the job training--from ground zero--you have to have a substantial body of working knowledge from day one or you start out too far behind to catch up.

Herman Cain is NOT ready for prime time.
37 posted on 11/14/2011 3:49:11 PM PST by Sudetenland (There can be no freedom without God--What man gives, man can take away.)
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To: stillafreemind

Herman’s my guy. He clearly is upsetting the establishment the most and that’s what we need. Someone really new who will do what it takes.

Haven’t you noticed that it doesn’t matter whether it’s the establishment Republicans or the Dims, the budget cuts never happen and the taxes and spending go up?

We’ve all cut our spending, the states and cities have for the most part cut their spending but the federal guys haven’t. Why? The establishment repubs are in on it too!

Any Republican who is not being attacked with their tripe style attacks is not worthy.

It’s now or never.


38 posted on 11/14/2011 3:49:44 PM PST by Helotes
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To: Gargantua

“I’ve been saying for months that Cain just isn’t presidential mettle. He shoots from the hip when he’s unsure, and that is just way too dangerous for the guy with his finger on the button.”

I totally agree Gargantua. Cain simply isn’t presidential material and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the recent allegations by female employees. He is just not well versed on almost everything.

He is probably totally surprised that he mustered a following at all and now that he has, he doesn’t know what to do with it since he has no original thoughts other than his “9-9-9.”


39 posted on 11/14/2011 3:51:06 PM PST by varina davis (We grow too soon old and too late smart -- Pennsylvania Dutch adage)
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To: Lady Lucky

Well what else is he supposed to say? Obama punted the libyan file to the french and the outcome of events in Libya are still fluid. I agree with Cain.


40 posted on 11/14/2011 3:51:46 PM PST by bubman
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To: parksstp

We desparately need someone who knows what’s going on with all issues because Cain could agree to things presented by liberals/trans-nationals and not have a clue of the consequences that will unfold.

His instincts are not the greatest and governing is too complex to wing it these days.


41 posted on 11/14/2011 3:52:32 PM PST by SaraJohnson
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To: CainConservative

NO! The fear of Cain being elected to a Presidency he is not even close to being prepared for or qualified for. He is absolutely clueless on foreign policy. We’ve seen it over and over again, he lacks the depth of knowledge most of the people on this forum have on what is happening around the world and he has no vision for an American foreign policy . . . but after he gets with his “experts,” he’ll come back and tell us what it is. LOL!


42 posted on 11/14/2011 3:53:52 PM PST by Sudetenland (There can be no freedom without God--What man gives, man can take away.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Newt has some disturbing skeletons in his closet. And he is one of the few Speakers to be removed on ethics violations.


43 posted on 11/14/2011 3:55:30 PM PST by Thunder90 (Fighting for truth and the American way... http://citizensfortruthandtheamericanway.blogspot.com/)
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To: Bigtigermike

I thought his answers were perfectly fine. He seemed tired and stressed out, and obviously had a brainfreeze initially on the Libya question—but he recollected himself perfectly fine and gave a solid reply. That’s what counts.

Presidents are only human, they’re not superheros. Hence, they’re subject to the same human limitations as the rest of us.


44 posted on 11/14/2011 3:56:52 PM PST by Utmost Certainty (Our Enemy, the State)
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To: varina davis

Agreed. Cain is not a serious candidate. Never was, never will be.


45 posted on 11/14/2011 3:57:29 PM PST by Falcon28
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To: Signalman

people see what they want to see and cain handled the questions very well... he has my vote and support all the way...

just like the china nuclear capabilities answer... people wanted to hear he was clueless, but proved they were just clueless as to what he was talking about.

t


46 posted on 11/14/2011 3:58:17 PM PST by teeman8r (Armageddon won't be pretty, but it's not like it's the end of the world.)
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To: bubman

He contradicted himself. First he said he’d have done a better job of assessing, than Obama did. Last he said he simply didn’t know how much or how well it was assessed because he didn’t see the reports.


47 posted on 11/14/2011 3:58:22 PM PST by Lady Lucky
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To: Bigtigermike

Seems to me he collected his thoughts and gave a pretty good answer.

Compare that to Gingrich and Perry’s lifelong dreams of amnesty.

Or Newt’s lifelong support of ethanol subsidies.

Or Newt’s couch dance with Pelosi

Or Perry’s “hate crimes” legislation.

Or worse, Perry’s inexplicable answer in a debate on Iran’s nukes.


48 posted on 11/14/2011 4:00:00 PM PST by mean ogre
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To: Bigtigermike

Let’s see the raw video of other candidates during their interviews. This isn’t to be televised and so the audience is more contemplative. I’ve been interviewed by the press and his actions are normal.

Obama and company fear him most. Cui bono?


49 posted on 11/14/2011 4:01:54 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: justsaynomore
On the issue of collective bargaining, Cain said he supported the right of public employees to bargain collectively.

Calling all Cain Supporters -- is this really an accurate representation of Herman Cain's Position on public employee collective bargaining? Because I hate to argue the point only to have a half-dozen of you show up and claim that it isn't his position at all.

50 posted on 11/14/2011 4:04:35 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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