Skip to comments.Brutal: Cain blanks on Libya, supports collective bargaining for public employee unions
Posted on 11/14/2011 2:59:28 PM PST by Bigtigermike
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i watched the film and yes, it did take a while and a clarification, and it looked like he was up sh-— creek but then when he started to speek, I think he had found the paddle store and just had to get the feel of it, in the end he was just fine and no real dammage done, still suport him
My goodness, I thought it was an excellent response.
He focused on the importance of knowing who the US was supporting, the nature of the opposition.
He recognized that he was not privy to the information available to Obama so he refrained from criticizing specific actions,
but rather focused on what elements would be important in his decision making process.
I saw an intelligent man, engaged in what appears to be a fairly relaxed interview,
taking time to gather his thoughts in order to clearly explain his position
I don’t understand the conclusion that this shows him unfit to be President.
Is it the lack of a sound bite answer that makes some uncomfortable?
And his Ford-esque flub when he stated China was a threat because it was trying to acquire nuclear weapons?
As to that, he could have said Obama should've kept his trap shut about Khadaffi altogether, since we were not at risk in the situation. He could have said any number of good opinions, but instead he made an unproven assertion and then admitted he had no facts on which to base it.
The question was asked poorly.
Question: Do you agree with Obama about Libya?
Answer: No, I do not agree with Obama about Libya.
And that would have been it.
But Cain is too thoughtful, kind and respectful to tell this guy he is a dope - so Cain attempts to make the question worthwhile and at the same time is trying to answer it.
Cain is doing both his job and the dumbass reporter’s job at the same time.
welcome to Free Republic, I think.
there is NO ONE who knows what’s going on with every issue 24/7. The MSM will point out every weakness in each candidate.
He was not removed for ethics violations. He resigned after the 1998 elections, because some house members wanted to replace him as speaker since the Clinton impeachment turned badly on them.
And his one "ethics violation" was a joke. He got caught up in a snare because he taught a college class about conservative policies that got characterized as a political training session, and the democrats trumped up a false tax issue because it was paid for by a tax-exempt group and they argued it was partisan.
I'll let Wikipedia explain it:
During his term as Speaker, eighty-four ethics charges were filed against him; eighty-three of them were dropped. The remaining charge concerned a 20-hour college course called "Renewing American Civilization" that Gingrich had taught through a tax-deductible foundation, Kennesaw State College Foundation. Allegations of tax improprieties led to two counts "of failure to seek legal advice" and one count of "providing the committee with information which he knew or should have known was inaccurate" concerning the use of a tax exempt college course for political purposes. To avoid a full hearing, Gingrich and the House Ethics Subcommittee negotiated a sanctions agreement. Democrats accused Gingrich of violating the agreement, but it was forwarded to the House for approval. On January 21, 1997, the House voted 395 to 28 to reprimand Gingrich, including a $300,000 "cost assessment" to recoup money spent on the investigation.
The full committee panel did not agree whether tax law had been violated. In 1999, the IRS cleared the organizations connected with the courses.
This is the kind of thing that has me wishing that Michele Bachmann had not imploded. As it stands, I am having a hard time getting excited about anyone who is within striking distance of the nomination. I will vote for whoever ends up with the nomination, but at the moment I really do not have a horse in this race.
“Cain’s Lybia gaffe made Rick Perry look like Henry Kissinger.”
A President will rely on reports from the CIA, which contains facts that no ordinary person would be in the position to know without the very highest security clearance. So it’s BS to think somebody would know exactly what to do, given the information accessible to the public.
It is NOT BS. I saw Herman Cain at the TeaParty counter rally at the Wisconsin State Capital last winter. Cain was up on stage espousing TeaParty talking points while 1000’s of state and teacher union thugs marched around us and chanted anti Walker crap. For Cain to speak at this rally and not know the ENTIRE point was that the union was pissed that their collective bargaining ‘rights’ had been taken away is pathetic.
I can’t figure this guy out. Obviously he has smarts, but sometimes he seems dumb as a rock. This is just another example.
It doesn’t matter because you will take the opposite stance of whatever a Cain supporter says.
sumus homines, non dei
Don’t rain on their parade. They are celebrating their
perceived fall of the conservative frontrunner.
This was posted on G+ which is very liberal and many came to his defense saying he was trying to clarify a very vague question and his response was thoughtful. I was pleasantly surprised.
"...all of those things I think should have been assessed."
"And you don't think they were assessed."
"I don't KNOW that they were or were not they were assessed. I didn't see reports of that assessment."
He made a firm statement and then at the end he freely admitted it was groundless.
It seems like he didn’t even know it was being recorded; at least not video recorded. I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t tell him it was being video recorded.
The truth is that I have a right to free speech with my boss. Some say that only applies to the government. Not so. Since it’s a God-given right, it applies everywhere. What I don’t have is a written pact between myself and my boss that says I’ll not be held accountable for exercising my right to free speech. IOW, if I P him O enough, he’ll fire my A$$.
The same with the right to peaceably assemble and to petition for redress of grievance. While I have a pact called a constitution with my government that permits me to exercise this God-given right, that doesn’t mean the right doesn’t exist elsewhere. Elsewhere, though, I might pay a price for it.
A union, at its best, is simply a group of folks exercising that right to assemble themselves based on a common issue and pursue redress of grievance. (For example, “You don’t pay enough!” so we’ve come to talk to you and we’re united.)
Without collective bargaining law, that employer could tell them to take a permanent hike. With that law, the employer has some things he can do and the union has some things they can do. What they can’t permanently do, however, is defy the law of bankruptcy. Even at the public level, there comes a point when it isn’t possible and/or wise to squeeze one more drop of blood out of the taxpayer.
That is why realistic limits must be set. Autoworkers became unrealistic and they destroyed their dominant American industry. Dumb.
What is a realistic limit for a public employee? At a minimum they should live no better nor no worse than those in the private sector doing the same job at the same skill level.
The fact that kaddhafi is gone does not make the mission a success.
Never happened, his daughter has alrady explained that crapola BS away.
In your dreams - if you want a leap-before-you-look candidate there are plenty out there. The world is full of pundits who make the rounds of the networks and have answers for everything global crisis written on their cuffs and can spit them out in the 90 seconds the networks devote to an “in-depth” analysis. “I ask you, Mor-ton...”
Cain projects a peresonality that is deliberate. I would want him with me when buying a car. The salesman would rush him and he would push back for details on every point until the salesman realized he was hopelessly outmatched and sold the thing below sticker.
Learn to trust patience and deliberation a little. Remember the tortoise and the hare? Or did you just skim the Cliff Notes? “I ask you, Eleanor Clift...”
I’m wondering how you come down on Newt partnering with Al Sharpton and Arne Duncan to advocate for Obama’s education reforms.
Newt also started a for-profit organization called the Center for Health Transformation. What is it? Insurers and other health care industry players pay large membership fees and in return they, essentially, get to lobby Gingrich.
See post 68 for his verbatim statement that he doesn’t KNOW what he just spent five minutes pretending he does know.
The facts on the ground (those we know or those that highest level US govt know) are beside the point. It’s just basic logic. Don’t claim to know and then admit you don’t; someone might notice!
I’m a very serious opponent of public employee unions being guided by power hungry thugs. I am in favor of public employees uniting for cause as long as these public employees know they have to satisfy public opinion beyond the two faced administrators.
"I've got all this stuff twirling in my head"
You think NEWT is a winner? You don’t think that Newt, who worked for years in Congress and GOP fundraising, has line after line waiting to be mined for stupidity? Can I sell you a bridge? This is the guy who trots out his floozy like she’s some trophy to display in public and has the GALL to run for office—he’s no winner. I am one among many registered Republicans who will never punch a ballot for that slimy SOB, and that’s just on the basis of his morals. Imagine the exodus when his flip-flopping politics start being publicized!
If you care about freedom, forget about the GOP, get fluent in Spanish or an Asian language, and make sure your kids have passports.
Cain took his time to answer the question, and his answer was very reasonable on Libya. IMHO
There are issues...issues he won’t survive
A Rick Perry moment. argh!
Peter principle has set in.
Do you agree with Obama on Libya or not?
Cain carefully considers the question and gets the interviewer to clarify exactly what his question is
He then goes into explaining what he would have done better than Obama. what is it that with this point that you disagree with? We are dealing with hypotheticals here. I heard circular answers from Romney, Newt, Huntsman yet Cain get nailed. please!!
I am worried about how the media butchered him back in the 90s.
Did the media force him to blank Calista on his big Speaker Desk?
Exactly; and I thought Cain was very adroit in trying to sidestep that question. I am sure various Republican/Conservative analysts are still attempting to understand the significance of what happened in the Ohio vote; which seemed to support issues that were politically 180 degrees apart.
Additionally, Cain would know (having worked as a civilian employee of the Dept of the Navy) that there are many Federal employees in DoD whose working conditions/pay are subject to union negotiations (even if the employee doesn't belong to a union himself/herself) and many of these employees are from military families or are former military themselves. Many of them vote Conservatively.
I agree. He answers like a business guy. He wants to gather the facts, and avoid shooting from the hip with bumper-sticker absolutes. When he answered the question about trading a Taliban-captured US soldier for Khalid Sheik Muhammed, he started out by expressing it would be a bad idea, but as he began to consider the universe of possible approaches, he allowed that under some circumstances, he could see doing it.
Which is the correct answer.
I have not heard of Newt supporting Obama/Duncan/Sharpton "education reforms".
Definite Cain brain freeze.
Or maybe it's pathetic to not know that the ENTIRE point of Governor Walker's legislation was that the collective bargaining "rights" of unions had been LIMITED, NOT "taken away"?
Public employee unions have already said they were prepared to pay more money for health insurance and pension benefits, but they have balked at having their collective bargain rights restrained. The measure affects public employee unions except for police and fire.
Under the legislation, unions will not be able to bargain for health and pension benefits, will be limited in what they can seek in pay raises and have such other provisions as automatic dues payment modified.
This was written while Gingrich was still very much dead in the polls.
I posted the article last night to see if other freepers had heard of this and what their thoughts were. Unfortunately, the now-predictable ensued.
I was going to research it more, but haven't had time yet.
I can't answer it any better than I already have in several posts.
Get with the program. The man worked as a ballistics specialist for the navy.
One thing I have learned in life, especially in politics, nothing that the media, or political enemies conjur up usually is fatal or true!!! Life is basically the same trip!!! I no longer listen to politicians or pundits. They all have their own mantra and axe to grind. So folks this race for the POTUS is just getting started!!! Anything can and will happen. So.....as Mr. Cain, in his wisdom as a business leader so aptly states, lighten up folks and join the circus. I mean, come on, the Politico, Bialek, Allred, lunatic accusation binge is loaded with lots of laughs, but....absolutely no substance. Here today, gone tomorrow!!! So....lighten up!!! Herman Cain has done us all a great service, simply by pointing out and proving that most politiicans, pundits, politico’s are naught but empty suits at the end of the day, as my British friends like to say!!!
thank you for the refreshing clarity. Too many people have WAY too much time in their hands. peace out
That was not only BRUTAL, it was PAINFUL to watch and it may very well prove to be FATAL.