I don't always shoot hikers or dog walkers... 
but when I do, it is always on public land.
Hey, works... 
for me!
Posted on 11/16/2011 6:56:44 AM PST by Second Amendment First
Gun owners who have historically been able to use public lands for target practice would be barred from potentially millions of acres under new rules drafted by the Interior Department, the first major move by the Obama administration to impose limits on firearms.
Officials say the administration is concerned about the potential clash between gun owners and encroaching urban populations who like to use same land for hiking and dog walking.
"It's not so much a safety issue. It's a social conflict issue," said Frank Jenks, a natural resource specialist with Interior's Bureau of Land Management, which oversees 245 million acres. He adds that urbanites "freak out" when they hear shooting on public lands. [Read about the subpoena issued as a result of Operation Fast and Furious.]
If the draft policy is finally approved, some public access to Bureau lands to hunters would also be limited, potentially reducing areas deer, elk, and bear hunters can use in the West.
Conservationists and hunting groups, however, are mounting a fight. One elite group of conservationists that advises Interior and Agriculture is already pushing BLM to junk the regulations, claiming that shooters are being held to a much higher safety standard than other users of public lands, such as ATV riders.
"They are just trying to make it so difficult for recreational shooters," said Gary Kania, vice president of the Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation. His group is one of several, including the National Wildlife Foundation, Cabela's and Ducks Unlimited, on the Wildlife and Hunting Heritage Conservation Council fighting the new rules. During a two-day meeting ending this afternoon, they are drafting their own changes to the BLM rules.
"What we probably are going to be looking forward to is a reversal," said Kania. Asked about how to handle people who freak out when they hear shots on public lands, Kania said, "I don't know how to quanitify 'freaking out,'" and noted that he's seen people panicing when fly fishing in float tubes but nobody wants to ban then from rivers.
BLM actually invited the fight, seeking the council's comments. But officials suggested to Whispers that no changes are being planned to the draft regulations.
Over five pages, the draft BLM regulations raise concerns about how shooting can cause a "public disturbance." They also raise worries about how shooting and shooters can hurt plants and litter public lands.
This is the key paragraph foes say could lead to shooters being kicked off public lands:
"When the authorized officer determines that a site or area on BLM-managed lands used on a regular basis for recreational shooting is creating public disturbance, or is creating risk to other persons on public lands; is contributing to the defacement, removal or destruction of natural features, native plants, cultural resources, historic structures or government and/or private property; is facilitating or creating a condition of littering, refuse accumulation and abandoned personal property is violating existing use restrictions, closure and restriction orders, or supplementary rules notices, and reasonable attempts to reduce or eliminate the violations by the BLM have been unsuccessful, the authorized officer will close the affected area to recreational shooting." [Check out new Debate Club about whether Congress needs to overhaul gun trafficking laws.]
Squeezing out shooters, says the draft policy, is needed because, "As the West has become more populated, recreational shooters now often find themselves in conflict with other public lands users, and the BLM is frequently called on to mediate these conflicts."
At yesterday's meeting at Interior, the council balked at the BLM draft regulations, adding that the Obama administration was not being fair to shooters on the issue of safety.
In a draft retort to BLM, the council said other users of public land aren't required to be as safe as shooters. They note that shooters have a much lower injury rate than others, like ATV users. "The policy fails to recognize that recreational shooting has one of the lowest incidences of death and injury compared to virtually any other outdoor recreational activity. The policy is prejudicial and discriminatory to target shooters as compared to other recreationists," said the council's draft response, expected to be finalized today.
What's more, the group charged that the BLM is acting in a contradictory fashion, encouraging the shooting sports while limiting shooting areas.
See: the month's best political cartoons. Read more: about Operation Fast and Furious. Check out: our editorial cartoons on President Obama. Tags: Barack Obama, gun control and gun rights « Previous Post Reader Comments Read all comments (31) Add Your Thoughts Comment 3000 characters left Name State Email Please enter the two words below into the text field underneath the image.
Enter the words above: Your comment will be posted immediately, unless it is spam or contains profanity. For more information, please see our Comments FAQ. Well, heck, let's ban electric cars on public lands, because I freak out when I suddenly see some city person comes barreling down a road in their electric car and I can't hear them coming because they run so quietly. Let's ban hikers on public lands because they crush plants and that hurts more plants than a few bullets which are generally aimed at dirt for target practice. Let's ban boats on public waters because they scare the fish. Let's ban all humans from public lands due to any damage they might do and because meeting another human on public land could cause the other human to freak out. However, by all means, let's NOT ban OWS protestors from taking over private or public property, because even if other people freak out when they defecate on that property, or rape women, they support the Democratic party, so they should be allowed to do anything. Obama....hands off our gun rights!!!
JOHNDD of NM 9:44AM November 16, 2011 [report comment] This country is about to fall off a very high cliff into a totalitarian bowl of poo-poo! Grab your bonnet!
RIGHTSTUFF of TX 9:43AM November 16, 2011 [report comment] I'll consider this the day that the Obama Administration does something about the encroachment of the Mexican drug cartels into the public lands in the southern states. There are literally state parks that we're advised not to enter. THAT is a real threat to the public.
Btw, I'm not a hunter and not into gun sports. I just see the massive disconnect and shake my head. The government is rearranging the deck chairs while the Titanic is sinking. It's ridiculous.
"Common sense gun regulation" by obama.
Then stay the hell in your damn urban environment!
my neighbor cross the road freaked out when he heard me shooting on my land. I wish he could sell his house so he could move back to the city
I don't always shoot hikers or dog walkers... but when I do, it is always on public land.
Hey, works... for me!
Whatever else this is, it is not smart politics.
Second Amendment voters caused Al Gore to lose his home state.
Energizing them with a General Election coming up, very dumb in my view.
And he wants to win Colorado again?
The daily outrages by this Keynan turd just never stop.
Urbanites walk their dogs on BLM land? I live in a state with a large portion of BLM land. I hunt on the BLM, (though never for dog walking urbanites, when are they in season?)I four-wheel on it and the closest thing I see to some Denver yuppie walking his dog is a cowboy on a cattle drive. This excuse to increase regulation on gun owners is ludicrous.
The Suicide of Marlboro Man:
http://www.fredoneverything.net/Liddy.shtml
Who in the heck died and made this jug-eared, maladroit, witchdoctor, the “Pretenda from Kenya” king? He is nothing but a Communist who is charged with the destruction of America. Sen Joseph McCarthy was right. We don’t need Shiva, the “Destroyer of Worlds,” good old jug-ears is doing a dang good job of it.
I moved to rural Kentucky a few months ago after living in Seattle for several decades. I hear gunfire all the time. Other than the very rare bullet whizzing by my head it is a refreshing reminder that I am in a place where men are still free.
Well, that and being able to burn all my garbage.
Awwwwwwww. They care. They REALLY care!
Idiots.
FUBO!!!!!
I hear about more people in the inner city being hit by stray bullets than on BLM by a huge margin. This is just BS.
Meant to ping you Joe, but got sidetracked.
Then the urbanites should stay the fsck out. The shooters were there first. Just like a lib to make the earlier users step aside to protect the unjustified fears of later users, who chose to start using those lands when this was already being done. D'oh! Oxygen thieves! (The bureaucrats, not the city people)
He adds that urbanites "freak out" when they hear shooting on public lands.
And his proposed rule will make sure they don't GET acclimated to living along side this wholesome activity. Which I'm sure suits his statist tyrannical agenda just fine.
He won the suit to to get an injunction and now the Feds are debating how much of the area to close to hunting/shooting and snowmobiling.
The A-hole doesn't even live there, he has a vacation cabin in the area.
Carry on public lands for self protection - yes. Target practice or other types of shooting on public lands - no. Similarly, no farming on public lands.
Over five pages, the draft BLM regulations raise concerns about how shooting can cause a "public disturbance." They also raise worries about how shooting and shooters can hurt plants and litter public lands.This is the clause that will end shooting on public lands. I agree with most that the danger to bystanders is nil, assuming of course, appropriate location and proper backstop.This is the key paragraph foes say could lead to shooters being kicked off public lands:
"When the authorized officer determines that a site or area on BLM-managed lands used on a regular basis for recreational shooting is creating public disturbance, or is creating risk to other persons on public lands; is contributing to the defacement, removal or destruction of natural features, native plants, cultural resources, historic structures or government and/or private property; is facilitating or creating a condition of littering, refuse accumulation and abandoned personal property is violating existing use restrictions, closure and restriction orders, or supplementary rules notices, and reasonable attempts to reduce or eliminate the violations by the BLM have been unsuccessful, the authorized officer will close the affected area to recreational shooting."
As someone who has occasionally used a gravel pit on our own local public land area... "our" stewardship of this land has not been good.
Look at these pictures... Look at the amount of garbage, spent shell casings, shot-up garbage in the range area (an unbelievable amount of glass out there) and crap left behind. Our new targets brought with us are the paper targets, one near and one far against the hill. The rest of course, was already there.
I wondered, when we were there last time, why the state (this is state land) has not shut this site down already. It is a complete mess. The only explanation we could think of was that they were viewing it as a sacrifice area that should be left open lest shooters just go find a new place to junk up. If so... I guess that's smart management.
But it's not real good PR, that this gravel pit is one of the first turnoffs when entering our state forest land. One that people looking for a little time in the outdoors might stumble upon, if they miss the turn to the public trailhead.
If there are places that are at risk of closure, an offer of cleanup and good 'pack it in, pack it out' practices might go a long way toward keeping it open.
Pinging others in the pics with me ;~)
LOL! Well played, sir.
Think about the impact of Obama in his second term. WE will see this kind of sweeping legislation and Executive Order with a strict discipline and agenda. This will be known as Carter and Clinton on Meth! We won't be able to do much about it either. Hunters make up less than 20% of the population.
If all you were after was the shooting and burning all you needed to do was move 100 miles east across the Cascades.
Yeah. But it was more than that. ;)
I was born east of the Cascades, btw.
Some of the best times of my youth were spent in the high desert BLM land east of San Diego, camping and shooting ground squirrels and jack rabbitts. Never saw any hikers or ‘dog walkers’, just the occasional guy panning for gold on his claim.
BO wants to keep federal lands safe for pot growers and illegal aliens....
Sarcasm? You forgot the sarcasm tag?
He adds that urbanites "freak out" when they hear shooting on public lands.
Then they should be required to seek treatment for their mental illness. Hoplophobia is Curable.
FUBO!!!!!!!!
It is a gravel pit, not Mount Rushmore. Other than shooting, there isn’t a reason to stop there at all.
It is a garbage dump. And now, useless as a gravel pit. (you want that as your road bed?) If you don’t see that as a problem, then that’s why these sites will close. They’re being abused.
These places don’t take care of themselves. People have to be responsible with them.
The riding trails around the same area are maintained with much volunteer effort by the users. Brush is cut back, poop and garbage is removed from the trailhead.
Users of the shooting area would be wise to do the same. Adopt a gravel pit. Clean up the visible garbage, and you might be surprised that more people wouldn’t pack out their own. Right now, it looks like a lost cause, and people treat it that way.
Metrosexual #2: "I don't know but I just spilled my lait on my L. L. Bean cardigan."
Metrosexual #3: "I don't know about you guys but I am headed back to the Prius. It could be those teabaggers out shooting those evil guns again. When are they going to outlaw those mean things?"
The vast majority of BLM land is a garbage dump. That is why no one else wanted it.
That site is fine for shooting. Use it as such, and ignore it if you don’t want to shoot.
I don’t ride my horses on a shooting range, and most shooters don’t shoot out on riding trails.
The riding trails aren’t near the gravel pit, you’re missing the point. The point was an example of good stewardship by the users of those areas, to keep them nice.
I obviously like to shoot. We don’t have the right to treat public lands as a garbage dump.
I hear about more people in the inner city being hit by stray bullets than on BLM by a huge margin. This is just BS.
It’s gun control...pure and simple.
BINGO on post 17 for the best one.
I’m so sick of this POS Kenyan fraud, his POS sow of a wife, their 2 sprogs and the freeloading mother in law . 2012 can’t come soon enough. Keep your powder dry boys & girls, this could get world class interesting.
You’re right. These public lands will be easier to keep available if we (the shooting public) would take better care of the sites: Organize an annual clean-up weekend... encourage users to pack out what they pack in... encourage good habits (no glass, no dumping)... things like that.
The problem is the federal government owns too much land.
There’s no logical reason the federal government should own upwards of 50% of the land in some western states. None at all. Do you think the writers of the Constitution ever envisioned the federal government owning (and controlling) this much land?
I’ve lived in rural areas for years. I rarely hear shooting activities - unless I’m the one shooting.
During that time I’ve visited Detroit, LA, Seattle, and Chicago for just a few days at a time. I heard gunshots every night in those cities. Funny. The only time I hear gunshots in the boonies is during daylight.
FUBO!
Yes, there is a logical reason that much of the west is federal land. It was not some land-grab. It's owned by default. No one wanted to homestead it, few want to buy it. Look at the large areas of public land. They are largely desert or mountaintop. No roads, no power, no water. Want some? You can buy lots of it that have only the above problems, really cheap. 100 acres or more for $10K was common last year when I looked, if you didn't mind if it has no water and is landlocked by other property with no easement to get to it.
alot of shooters come from what is commonly called “white trash” and not for no reason.
'packit in, pack it out' is common sense on anybodys land, as is using proper targets...NOT bottles and such...
that said, gubmint will spend millions and billions in 'management' of land, but cant/wont dump those used tire shavings used for playgrounds or gravel it, or even concrete/asphalt the shooting area for easy brass cleanup ???
oh well, like anything else, a few dumbasses will ruin whats left of a good thing...but realistically, we could make it pristine and it wouldnt matter to the statists who think they own the hundreds of millions of acres of public lands.../rant
BTTT!
Back in 2001 or 2002, I visited my cousin who lived on 40 acres in the sticks outside of Ft. Myers, FL. On this particular Sunday, his neighbor must have invited a couple buddies over for some fun with their firearms. For about two hours all I listened to was full-auto weapons firing, semi-auto firing and even the resounding boom of a .50 cal.......... I sure would have loved to have gone over and met that guy.
Last auto fire for me was a United States Machine Gun, Caliber 7.62 mm, M60 on USS Gemini either Nov 85 or Feb 86. Don’t see the point in a 50 BMG, though I’d love to have one. What are they now? 9 grand? I could find a heck of a lot better things to spend 9 grand on. Let’s see that would be 7 or 8 M-4’s or 45 Mosin Nagant’s, 18 AK’s, or 6 or 7 Kimber M1911’s. The list goes on and on. :-)
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