Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

If You’re Stopped At a Red Light, Are You “Driving”? [Using cellphone]
The Volokh Conspiracy ^ | November 15, 2011 | Orin Kerr

Posted on 11/16/2011 12:15:28 PM PST by QT3.14

[You'll need to scroll about half way down the page]...Yes, says a California court, at least for purposes of interpreting a California law that prohibits using a cell-phone while driving.

(Excerpt) Read more at volokh.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; US: California
KEYWORDS: cellphone; govtabuse; law; rapeofliberty; trafficviolation; tyranny
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-109 next last
Interesting comments section.
1 posted on 11/16/2011 12:15:32 PM PST by QT3.14
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

Is you car running and are you in it? They YOU are “driving”!


2 posted on 11/16/2011 12:17:53 PM PST by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

for purposes of DUI , if you’re on a public street , in the car, with possesion of the ignition key, you’re driving.


3 posted on 11/16/2011 12:17:54 PM PST by WOBBLY BOB (See ya later, debt inflator ! Gone in 4 (2012))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

Yes, of course you are driving and talking on a cell phone.

Not that there should be anything WRONG with that...


4 posted on 11/16/2011 12:19:03 PM PST by SaxxonWoods (.....The days are long but the years are short.....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

If you are not parked and on the road then “yes”.


5 posted on 11/16/2011 12:19:11 PM PST by arrogantsob (Obama must Go.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

If you are in a vehicle that is running and a part of the traffic, whether moving at any specific time or not, YES, you are driving. NO, you should not be using a cell phone. When using a cell while behind the wheel the driver IS NOT paying attention to anything else around him/her.


6 posted on 11/16/2011 12:19:48 PM PST by SoldierDad (Proud dad of an Army Soldier currently deployed in the Valley of Death, Afghanistan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

Yep.


7 posted on 11/16/2011 12:20:27 PM PST by Jagdgewehr (It will take blood.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

No need to do any scrolling. This is the direct link to the blog posting:

http://volokh.com/2011/11/15/if-youre-stopped-at-a-red-light-are-you-driving/

Which links us to another blog:

http://howappealing.law.com/111511.html#043586

Which then takes us to the source articles.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/11/15/BAL91LV1C0.DTL

http://sfappeal.com/news/2011/11/court-says-using-hand-held-cellphone-at-red-light-violates-sate-law.php

http://www.law.com/jsp/ca/PubArticleCA.jsp?id=1202532415707

http://calapp.blogspot.com/2011/11/people-v-nelson-cal-ct-app-nov-14-2011.html

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions/documents/A131301.PDF


8 posted on 11/16/2011 12:21:02 PM PST by Altariel (`)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WOBBLY BOB

Not to argue with you Wobbly Bob.. but I thought the ignition key had to be in the ignition. The car didn’t have to be running; however, DUI cases could be made if the car was turned off (but the ignition key was inserted).


9 posted on 11/16/2011 12:21:09 PM PST by momtothree
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

Yes. You are driving. You are responsible for controlling the car on the road. If a car comes careening at you from any direction, even when stopped, you should at least be paying attention enough to take evasive action if possible.

Now, if you are in a parking space with the car in park, that is a different matter. I did actually read right here on FR about a guy that was in the parking lot of a Starbucks, engine running, but in park, checking his phone messages before he took off. A cop wrote him a ticket for driving while on the cell phone. That’s just stupid.


10 posted on 11/16/2011 12:21:09 PM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

You’re in the middle of the road.
The car is running.
The transmission is in drive.
You’re driving.


11 posted on 11/16/2011 12:21:27 PM PST by Brookhaven (The media is throwing smoke bombs at Cain and claiming the smoke is proof of fire)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: momtothree

can’t speak for CA, but in MN, key just has to be on you and you in the car.


12 posted on 11/16/2011 12:22:50 PM PST by WOBBLY BOB (See ya later, debt inflator ! Gone in 4 (2012))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14
I heard radio reports of people being ticketed in parked cars with the engine running in San Francisco.

-PJ

13 posted on 11/16/2011 12:23:06 PM PST by Political Junkie Too (If you can vote for President, then your children can run for President.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

” at least for purposes of interpreting a California law that prohibits using a cell-phone while driving “

at least for purposes of [squeezing every last drop of revenue out of the citizenry]

Fixed it....


14 posted on 11/16/2011 12:25:03 PM PST by Uncle Ike (Rope is cheap, and there are lots of trees...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Political Junkie Too

As said earlier, if you are in the driver’s seat with the keys, you’re driving, even if the engine is not running.


15 posted on 11/16/2011 12:25:17 PM PST by dfwgator (I stand with Herman Cain.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: WOBBLY BOB

Dang... that is very strict!


16 posted on 11/16/2011 12:29:06 PM PST by momtothree
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: US Navy Vet
Correct, as long as the key is in the ignition, you are driving, has been up held by many courts, where people were drunk.
17 posted on 11/16/2011 12:29:50 PM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Perry and his fellow demorats.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: momtothree
Correct, as long as you are behind the wheel and the key is in the switch.
18 posted on 11/16/2011 12:31:20 PM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Perry and his fellow demorats.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: SoldierDad

California’s idiotic law doesn’t care if you are using a cell-phone (though I agree it’s one of MANY distracting things you can do while driving) It’s only concerned with whether or not you are HOLDING a cellphone.


19 posted on 11/16/2011 12:31:22 PM PST by Smogger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

Yes. You are in control of the vehicle in the driver’s seat on a public roadway.


20 posted on 11/16/2011 12:31:35 PM PST by Darren McCarty (Anybody but Romney or Obama)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Political Junkie Too

I can easily see getting a ticket while you are in a parked car with the engine running because the car is in operation. The car is not off.


21 posted on 11/16/2011 12:31:54 PM PST by moviefan8
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

Conservatives accept responsibility when they ignore the law and then get caught.


22 posted on 11/16/2011 12:34:02 PM PST by Notwithstanding
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

IS THE GEAR IN DRIVE?


23 posted on 11/16/2011 12:37:07 PM PST by longfellow (Bill Maher, the 21st hijacker.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Smogger

Several states have the hand helt cell phone law, the truck driver that ran over and killed all the amish people in ky last year was talking on a head set and had a history of the same. Wrong thing to do. Anyone caught texting and driving should be dragged off the road and shot. http://www.louisvilleaccidentsblog.com/2011/09/kentucky-crash-cited-in-call-to-ban-cell-phone-use-in-trucks.shtml


24 posted on 11/16/2011 12:39:11 PM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Perry and his fellow demorats.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

I disapprove of enforcing this law on the driver of a vehicle that is not moving, and I disapprove of having laws that are not enforced. The obvious intent is to maximize revenue, but that is an abuse of police power. If a woman can apply makeup legally and a man can read the newspaper legally, they should be able to text too while stopped. The law should be changed.


25 posted on 11/16/2011 12:39:15 PM PST by Pollster1 (Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

I just have a one question for all of you. This question has baffled me for 50 years, ever since I was in high school.

If you are at any service window, such as post office, restaurant, school....any where, and you are doing business with the person at the window, and their phone rings. They always stop with you and give phone immediate attention. This is very annoying since you have made effort to get to the service window in person, and the after coming phone call gets higher priority.

So, getting back to cell phones, unless your wife is about to deliver a baby, or some one in your family is having surgery, where is the urgency to attend to the cell phone? What is the last time any one called you (or texted) to give you a prize? 99% of my calls are when someone wants something from me.


26 posted on 11/16/2011 12:39:55 PM PST by federal__reserve (Obama Vs Perry presidential debates are my worst nightmare! Those will get huge audiences.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: org.whodat; WOBBLY BOB; momtothree
I believe in WA (the state) it is called Physcal Control. It is my understanding that you can be sleeping in the back seat and as long as you have access to the key you are capable of operating the vehicle and considered in P C.
27 posted on 11/16/2011 12:40:22 PM PST by QT3.14 (Life is not a dress rehearsal - It is Showtime!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: dfwgator
I can see an argument if the engine is not on.

If someone is sitting in their car in a parking lot and the engine is off, perhaps waiting for their child to get out of school or waiting to pick up their spouse at the train station, then talking on the phone while sitting in a parked, turned off car should be okay.

In the radio story that I heard, the car was running but the car was still parked. In this situation, I can see someone getting into their car in the morning and starting it up to warm up the engine to defrost or defog the windshield, and then make a phone call while sitting in the car.

This person also said that she got a ticket for not properly curbing the tires on her car (turning the wheels towards the curb to prevent a runaway car from rolling down the street). That can be an issue in San Francisco, but she said she got the ticket on a flat street, so there are some pretty aggressive ticket writers out there.

-PJ

28 posted on 11/16/2011 12:42:10 PM PST by Political Junkie Too (If you can vote for President, then your children can run for President.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

When I first started prosecuting I got the traffic cases (as all new Prosecutors do) and the law in Virginia ws that if you were behind the car, keys in ignition and the car was on a public road, you were driving EVEN if the engine wasn’t running and you were parked on the side of the road in a parking space. The Va Sp Ct ruled on that a couple times. I THINK (though am not sure) that before I retired the Court ruled that you only had to have the keys and they didn’t need to be in the ignition though I am not sure of that.

This is pretty standard in states nationwide.


29 posted on 11/16/2011 12:45:28 PM PST by RIghtwardHo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

If the engine is on, your are behind the wheel and the vehicle is in a public traffic lane, then YES you are driving.


30 posted on 11/16/2011 12:46:22 PM PST by Buckeye Battle Cry (Mittt Romney - he lacks the courage of his absence of convictions.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: org.whodat

Yeah well people shouldn’t have their little rat dogs in their lap, put ketchup on their fries, read a map, scold their kids, or a myriad of other things while their driving. I am not at all compelled that one is inherently more dangerous then the other.


31 posted on 11/16/2011 12:48:04 PM PST by Smogger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: SoldierDad

“If you are in a vehicle that is running and a part of the traffic, whether moving at any specific time or not, YES, you are driving. NO, you should not be using a cell phone. When using a cell while behind the wheel the driver IS NOT paying attention to anything else around him/her.”


I’ll support laws that ban the use of cell phones while driving when they pass laws that ban drivers from changing radio stations, speaking to the other passengers in the car, fiddling with the air conditioning, looking at billboards, scenery or house numbers, and all the myriad things that drivers do that prevent them from being 100% attentive to their driving. Heck, by that rationale, they should ban thinking about something other than driving. Furthermore, cars with manual transmissions should be banned, since having to place a hand on the stick shift prevents the driver from keeping both hands on the wheel at all times. It’s for the children, you know.


32 posted on 11/16/2011 12:49:46 PM PST by AuH2ORepublican (If a politician won't protect innocent babies, what makes you think that he'll protect your rights?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

You are operating a vehicle still or not.


33 posted on 11/16/2011 12:54:09 PM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AuH2ORepublican
I’ll support laws that ban the use of cell phones while driving when they pass laws that ban drivers from changing radio stations, speaking to the other passengers in the car, fiddling with the air conditioning, looking at billboards, scenery or house numbers, and all the myriad things that drivers do that prevent them from being 100% attentive to their driving. Heck, by that rationale, they should ban thinking about something other than driving. Furthermore, cars with manual transmissions should be banned, since having to place a hand on the stick shift prevents the driver from keeping both hands on the wheel at all times. It’s for the children, you know.

Secretary LaHood?! When did YOU join Free Republic?
34 posted on 11/16/2011 12:56:51 PM PST by Dr. Sivana (May Mitt Romney be the Mo Udall of 2012.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: moviefan8; All
I can easily see getting a ticket while you are in a parked car with the engine running because the car is in operation.

Me too.

Hypothetical: You are driving and are completely lost. You pull off on a residential side street, put the car in park, and call for directions.

Should you really get a ticket for that?


35 posted on 11/16/2011 1:00:01 PM PST by mmichaels1970
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

IIRC, you can be cited for a DUI if you are sitting in the drivers side of a car that is not turned on.


36 posted on 11/16/2011 1:00:41 PM PST by BunnySlippers (I LOVE BULL MARKETS . . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AuH2ORepublican

The problem with your example is that the stats show cellphoning while driving bumps your accident rate up into the drunk driving territory while none of you other “suggestions” even come close to that range.


37 posted on 11/16/2011 1:02:55 PM PST by discostu (How Will I Laugh Tomorrow When I Can't Even Smile Today)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: WOBBLY BOB

even if you are passed out/sleeping.


38 posted on 11/16/2011 1:08:15 PM PST by wolfcreek (Perry to Obama: Adios, MOFO!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Notwithstanding
Conservatives accept responsibility when they ignore the law and then get caught.

Conservatives believe government has limited powers. China has plenty of laws.

This guy loves conservatives who ...

39 posted on 11/16/2011 1:11:03 PM PST by douginthearmy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Buckeye Battle Cry
If the engine is on, your are behind the wheel and the vehicle is in a public traffic lane, then YES you are driving.

How about the comment made at the link? At long lights, he turns his car OFF.

40 posted on 11/16/2011 1:11:49 PM PST by QT3.14 (Life is not a dress rehearsal - It is Showtime!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Sivana

The difference between LaHood and me is that I’m using reductio ad absurdum while LaHood would actually think those laws would be a good idea.


41 posted on 11/16/2011 1:12:13 PM PST by AuH2ORepublican (If a politician won't protect innocent babies, what makes you think that he'll protect your rights?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14

If he turns his car off, he’s still driving. Only now, he’s obstructing a traffic lane and will ge an additional ticket.


42 posted on 11/16/2011 1:13:34 PM PST by Buckeye Battle Cry (Mittt Romney - he lacks the courage of his absence of convictions.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: SoldierDad
When using a cell while behind the wheel the driver IS NOT paying attention to anything else around him/her.

Going home yesterday, there was a gal in a protected left turn lane on a cell phone. The green arrow was on. Several drivers behind her were honking to get her attention. She didn't move - until the arrow changed to amber. She was the ONLY one who got through that light. Talk about ticking off other drivers.

43 posted on 11/16/2011 1:14:06 PM PST by Arrowhead1952 (Dear God, thanks for the rain, but please let it rain more in Texas. Amen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: mmichaels1970

Well, yes. You gotta remember that the city needs the money and, according to the expert, traffic light cameras reduce accidents. If others that do not run redlights get cught up in the process, that is just the cost of doing business. They should have stayed home. Personlly, I do everything to avoid red light camears. What people who live where they can’t be avoided is , the moment that the caution comes on lock your brakes and if hit by another vehicle sur the company or their affiliates that installed the camera.


44 posted on 11/16/2011 1:14:17 PM PST by sport
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: mmichaels1970; All
Hypothetical: You are driving and are completely lost. You pull off on a residential side street, put the car in park, and call for directions.

Should you really get a ticket for that?

No!. For example, all only GA exception to the law says is the car is parked legally.

State police/car insurance public service announcements say, for example, on freeways, to pull off to a safe spot to make your call. They have never advise you to turn the car off.

45 posted on 11/16/2011 1:21:26 PM PST by QT3.14 (Life is not a dress rehearsal - It is Showtime!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: douginthearmy

Talking on the cell phone while driving
is DEADLY & DANGEROUS TO OTHERS.

There is no right to drive on public roads - it is a privilege.

The government is well within its duties to create safety standards for public roads and to enforce them.

Conservatives understand that.
Your comments are self-centered and NOT conservative.


46 posted on 11/16/2011 1:23:29 PM PST by Notwithstanding
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: discostu

What do “stats” show about people who are driving while arguing with someone in the back seat? Oh, they don’t keep those “stats”? And how exactly do they measure the level of distraction caused by someone on the phone when every person is different and there is a whole spectrum of “distraction” from a routine phone call saying you’ll be home in five minutes to an explanation of the pricing of bonds, not to mention the difference between driving in a secluded highway versus driving in a busy intersection? And don’t you think that there are responsible drivers out there who are able to drive while speaking on the phone just as easily as drive and sing along to a song on the radio?

I know that proponents of these laws mean well, but I think that they’re a lazy, inefficient proxy for a lwa that says “people should drive well.” Policemen can’t hand outas many tickets for “bad driving,” so they prefer an objective, albeit inefficient, standard such as “driving while holding a cell phone.” So I can’t support these laws.


47 posted on 11/16/2011 1:25:26 PM PST by AuH2ORepublican (If a politician won't protect innocent babies, what makes you think that he'll protect your rights?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Buckeye Battle Cry
If he turns his car off, he’s still driving. Only now, he’s obstructing a traffic lane and will ge an additional ticket.

Then you didn't have to mention one of the elements of the violation is to have the engine ON.

And why would he be obstructing traffic...he said for fuel savings he turns it OFF for the red light...green he turns the car back on and proceeds with others. Your assuming issues not mentioned.

48 posted on 11/16/2011 1:30:04 PM PST by QT3.14 (Life is not a dress rehearsal - It is Showtime!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: QT3.14
he said for fuel savings he turns it OFF for the red light

Heck. I'm surprised that California doesn't already have a law that FORCES you to do that.
49 posted on 11/16/2011 1:32:29 PM PST by mmichaels1970
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]




Click the Pic               Thank you, JoeProBono

Gary Takes the Pigeon's Advice and Hurries Back to Harriet by FedEx
He Absolutely Has to Get There Overnight!

Follow the Exciting Adventures of Gary the Snail!


Donate Monthly
Sponsors will contribute $10
For each New Monthly Donor

50 posted on 11/16/2011 1:33:39 PM PST by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-109 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson