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National Concealed Carry Bill Passes House 272 to 154
Human Events ^ | 11/17/2011 | Neil W. McCabe

Posted on 11/17/2011 4:48:52 PM PST by neverdem

A bill promising the most significant expansion of national gun rights since the current gun control regime began with the Handgun Control Act of 1968, passed the House 272 to 154 November 16 at 5:50 p.m. after two days of debate.

“The right to defend yourself and your loved ones from criminals is fundamental, and it should not be extinguished when you cross a state border,” said Rep. Clifford B. Stearns (R.-FL), who lead the fight with his co-sponsor Rep. J. Heath Shuler (D.-N.C.), a leader of the caucus of moderate Democrats known as the Blue Dogs.

“H.R. 822, the National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act, recognizes this important fact by establishing the interstate recognition of concealed carry permits in much the same way driver’s licenses are recognized,” said Stearns.

“Although 49 states issue these permits and many have reciprocity agreements with other states, the lack of uniformity makes it hard for law-abiding permit holders to know for sure if they are obeying the law as they travel from state to state,” he said.

“This legislation will simply make it far easier for law-abiding permit holders to know they are in compliance with the law when they carry a firearm as they travel,” he said.

Despite the mix of Democrats and Republicans voting for the bill, there have been critics.

On the Left, Sen. Scott P. Brown (R.-Mass.), who won a special election to succeed Edward M. Kennedy Sr., a ferocious opponent of gun rights after two of his brothers were cut down by assassin bullets, sent a November 3 “Dear Friend” letter to Bay State mayors assuring them that he would oppose the bill if the matter came before the Senate.

Brown, who was endorsed and strongly supported in his election by the National Rifle Association, echoed the arguments of other liberals when he called the bill a violation of states’ rights.

Christopher W. Cox, the executive director of NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action, said, “NRA has made the National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act a priority because it enhances the fundamental right to self-defense guaranteed to all law-abiding people.”

Cox said the reciprocity for regular people should be as easy as the current practice between states for recognizing carry permits held by armored car guards.

“People are not immune from crime when they cross state lines. That is why it is vital for them to be able to defend themselves and their loved ones should the need arise,” he said.

Another gun rights organization, Gun Owners of America, had concerns about the bill, preferring H.R. 2900, sponsored by Rep. Paul Broun (R.-Ga.).

One problem with H.R. 822 is that it destroys “Vermont Carry,” said John Velleco, GOA’s director of federal affairs.

“In Vermont, it has long been the case that law-abiding residents and non-residents alike could carry a concealed firearm, except for use in the commission of a crime,” he said. “The state, incidentally, also has the distinction of consistently being ranked one of the safest states in the country.”

The problem is that because there is no permit, there is nothing for another state to recognize, he said.

Broun’s bill would allow the Vermont driver’s license to suffice, he said.

Another problem is that constitutionally, the Stearns-Shuler bill relies on the Commerce Clause, and the bill’s authority is grounded in the act of transporting guns across interstate lines being classified as commerce, he said. This stretch opens the legislation to court challenge.

The Broun bill is grounded in the Second Amendment, he said.

“H.R. 822 would certainly benefit many Americans, although that number represents only a small fraction of all gun owners. But the bill has several deep flaws that could be fixed by Broun’s legislation,” Velleco said.

To mitigate to flaws in the Stearns-Shuler bill, GOA supported an amendment by Rep. W. Robert “Rob” Woodall III (R.-Ga.), which would assert that existing arrangements between states, such as 40 states have with each other, would supersede federal standards of reciprocity regulations, he said.

“This will help to ensure that states are not deterred from seeking out reciprocity agreements and it acts as a check against future federal abuse of the nation’s gun laws,” he said.

Now it is the Senate’s turn to act.

All eyes are Sen. John R. Thune (R.-S.D.). Thune attempted to gain Senate approval for reciprocity for national concealed carry in the last session of Congress with legislation very close to the language in the Broun bill. Ultimately, however, Thune fell two votes short of the 60 votes he needed to end a Democratic filibuster.

Neil W. McCabe is the editor of Guns & Patriots. McCabe, was a reporter and photographer at The Pilot, Boston's Catholic newspaper for several years. An Army reservist, he served 14 months in Iraq as a combat historian. Follow him on Twitter


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; Politics/Elections; US: District of Columbia
KEYWORDS: banglist; concealedcarry; hr822; yesterday
FINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR ROLL CALL 852
BILL TITLE: To amend title 18, United States Code, to provide a national standard in accordance with which nonresidents of a State may carry concealed firearms in the State

There were a number of rats ready to change their YEAs to NEAs so they wouldn't get the magic 60 votes in order to prevent the passage of the Thune Amendment.

hat tip george76

1 posted on 11/17/2011 4:48:53 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem


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2 posted on 11/17/2011 4:49:30 PM PST by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: neverdem

Did dirty “Hairy Reed” vote against it last time?


3 posted on 11/17/2011 4:51:34 PM PST by dynachrome ("Our forefathers didn't bury their guns. They buried those that tried to take them.")
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To: musicman

This was a total waste ot time. Reid will never bring it up for a vote in the Senate, and Obama would veto it if it did pass.


4 posted on 11/17/2011 4:53:10 PM PST by Roklok
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To: Roklok
Reid will never bring it up for a vote in the Senate, and Obama would veto it if it did pass.

Reid is pro-2A, but he may put on his Tom Daschle hat and not even allow it to have a vote.

5 posted on 11/17/2011 5:07:27 PM PST by umgud
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To: neverdem

Right idea, wrong justification. Should have stated that concealed carry is part and parcel of the 2nd Amendment, and that the 2nd Amendment is incorporated against the States.


6 posted on 11/17/2011 5:22:22 PM PST by taxcontrol
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To: Roklok

Political theater for the elections.


7 posted on 11/17/2011 5:23:25 PM PST by taxcontrol
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To: taxcontrol

IMHO, this is a very bad bill. Think about it—do we want the feds to have the data base of every gun owner in this country? Sure would give them what they need to make a call to disarm us all.


8 posted on 11/17/2011 5:28:07 PM PST by basil (It's time to rid the country of "gun free zones" aka "Killing Fields")
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To: neverdem

I am disappointed with the republicans who voted for this bill. The 2nd amendment does not specifically call for concealed carry, nor it specifically apply the 2nd amendment to the States.

An argument at best could be made that the Federal Goverment has the right to impose Gun rights on the grounds of arming the militia. But we need to be disarming the northern States not allowing their population to arm themselves. Why not at least allow them to disarm themselves.

When war comes we want them to be disarmed and helpless before southern furrie.


9 posted on 11/17/2011 5:33:01 PM PST by Monorprise
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To: Roklok

Never a waste get them on record and make the idiot in the wh veto it


10 posted on 11/17/2011 5:43:18 PM PST by italianquaker ( Mr Obama inherited an AAA rating and made it AA, thnx Resident Zero)
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To: dynachrome
Did dirty “Hairy Reed” vote against it last time?

Dingy Harry voted for it.

11 posted on 11/17/2011 5:46:19 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: neverdem

Thanks.


12 posted on 11/17/2011 5:47:13 PM PST by dynachrome ("Our forefathers didn't bury their guns. They buried those that tried to take them.")
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To: Roklok
This was a total waste ot time. Reid will never bring it up for a vote in the Senate, and Obama would veto it if it did pass.

Not necessarily, remember the Coburn Amendment that now allows concealed carry in national parks, etc. You attach it as an amendment to must pass legislation.

13 posted on 11/17/2011 5:51:53 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: dynachrome
The problem is that because there is no permit, there is nothing for another state to recognize, he said.

In Alaska there is an automatic right to CC, but you can also fill out the forms to for a hard copy permit if you want to travel to a reciprocal state. Seems an easy fix.

14 posted on 11/17/2011 6:22:44 PM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: American in Israel

You can walk into Walmart, buy your gun and ammo and walk out with it on your hip. I like Alaska.


15 posted on 11/17/2011 6:24:05 PM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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16 posted on 11/17/2011 6:27:36 PM PST by RedMDer (Forward With Confidence!)
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To: basil
IMHO, this is a very bad bill.

Agreed. Plus, this from GOA:

One extremely troubling amendment to the bill was slipped in on a voice vote. Sponsored by Republican David Reichert (“C” rated by GOA ), the amendment instructs the Government Accounting Office to:

“Conduct a study of the ability of State and local law enforcement authorities to verify the validity of licenses or permits, issued by other States, to carry a concealed firearm.”

Nowhere in the Constitution is there even a hint of authority for the federal government to “study” the exercising of a right. Even worse, you can be sure that anti-gunners will use any excuse, including this study, to push for some type of national carry license.

The bill now heads to the Senate, where GOA is already working with key Senators to address ALL of the problems with the bill. GOA is also working with Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA) on legislation, H.R. 2900, that takes a constitutional approach to concealed carry recognition.

17 posted on 11/17/2011 6:29:12 PM PST by Oatka ("A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." –Bertrand de Jouvenel)
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To: neverdem

Please God, Please:

LET THIS POISON BILL DIE!

This is a replay of the nationalized truck driver’s license regulations. CDL and all that rot.

If the FedGov is the final arbiter of National Carry, subject to the nefarious Commerce Clause, do you EVEN THINK that 16 tons of number nine coal regulations won’t be attached?

Think LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR! Because NJ, Illinois and California have the most stringent rules, then the Fedgov will impose the most strict rules ON THE WHOLE NATION.

Think this through, please.

To be sure, if this bill flies through the Senate, and BeeHoe signs it, you can damn well believe that you have Royally Effed the Ef up.

Take what you know about the Fedgov and think it through.


18 posted on 11/17/2011 7:00:07 PM PST by ConradofMontferrat (According to muzslimes, my handle is a hate crime.)
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To: American in Israel
You can walk into Walmart, buy your gun and ammo and walk out with it on your hip. I like Alaska.

This afternoon I walked into Walmart with a loaded handgun in my pocket—it wouldn't have made any difference if it were on my hip, bought some target ammo, and walked out.

Not quite Alaska but Arizona is pretty nice, too.

19 posted on 11/17/2011 7:03:18 PM PST by Jeff Chandler (This tagline has been suspended or banned.)
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To: Jeff Chandler

There are still pockets of freedom left in America. Shhhh...


20 posted on 11/17/2011 7:17:43 PM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: musicman

This bill supposedly allows people with permits from their home state to use those permits in other states which issue such permits to their residents.

This bill will never become law without 0’s signature.

If the bill were made law, it would lead to an interesting anomaly: a person with a state permit from his home state could come to NJ and supposedly have his permit honored, even though NJ in practice virtually never issues permits to its own residents. This would greatly annoy the political establishment in NJ, which is anti-gun. It would also be somewhat sad for NJ residents, to find their own state honoring permits which NJ will not issue here! But it would be worth it, because something needs to happen to embarrass New Jersey. It is really not honest to pretend to issue permits, but really not follow through.

As a NJ resident, I have permits from other states which are already good in most of the rest of the country, but I cannot get one in NJ. Because of the wording of the new bill, it would not effect my out-of-state permits, because they are not issued by the state in which I live.

From a states rights view, states should control these things. However, the SC has ruled that the 14th Amendment means that the Bill of Rights applies to the states. (I don’t agree with that, but it is the prevailing standard.) That being the case, then a state does not have the right to infringe on the right to bear arms, a civil right guaranteed by the 2nd amendment. New Jersey clearly does so infringe, as do Maryland, and certainly Illinois, and much of California. Massachusetts is another “bad faith” state, because it charges $100 for an out-of-state person to get their permit, which lasts only for a single year.

It is really annoying when NJ is listed as issuing, when in practice it does not. One has a better chance of getting a concealed weapons permit in New York City, than in the State of New Jersey.


21 posted on 11/17/2011 7:44:32 PM PST by docbnj
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To: Jeff Chandler
This afternoon I walked into Walmart with a loaded handgun in my pocket—it wouldn't have made any difference if it were on my hip, bought some target ammo, and walked out. Not quite Alaska but Arizona is pretty nice, too.

I did the same here in North Carolina not long ago. I carry my pistol almost everywhere I go.

22 posted on 11/18/2011 9:48:19 AM PST by backwoods-engineer (Any politician who holds that the state accords rights is an oathbreaker and an "enemy... domestic.")
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23 posted on 11/18/2011 11:32:05 AM PST by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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To: basil
If you have bought a gun from the a gun store in the last 30 years, the Fedgov has the paperwork. The ATF can and does keep all the instant back ground check information. Ask any gun store owner.

They already know who has guns. Heck, a lot of ad agencies know I have a guns, otherwise I wouldn't get all the neat catalogs I do.

24 posted on 11/18/2011 7:04:23 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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