Skip to comments.Man killed by his own concealed weapon
Posted on 11/20/2011 8:51:58 PM PST by smokingfrog
A Spotsylvania County man with a valid concealed-weapon permit died after a semi-automatic pistol without an external safety discharged as he tried to adjust the weapon, which was tucked into his waistband, investigators have concluded.
The 45-year-old man was sitting in the front seat of his family's minivan in a shopping center parking lot on Sunday when his .40-caliber Glock discharged, authorities said.
"For some reason, maybe for comfort, he reached out and went to adjust it," said Spotsylvania sheriff's Capt. Liz Scott. "The detective thinks that in doing so in just grabbing it he inadvertently grabbed the trigger."
"This particular weapon does not have an external safety," Scott added.
The single shot struck the man in the hip and he bled to death in a matter of minutes, the captain said.
The incident is at least the second in Virginia in 15 months in which a concealed-carry permit holder accidentally shot himself in public.
On Sept. 11, 2010, a Bedford County man with a permit accidentally shot himself in the thigh at a Lynchburg restaurant as he apparently reached into his pants pocket to pay a bartender for a beer. The .45-caliber Glock 36 was unholstered. Permit holders are not permitted to drink alcohol in restaurants while carrying a concealed weapon.
The man was later convicted of recklessly handing a firearm, given a 30-day suspended jail sentence and fined $500. He also was ordered to give up his concealed-carry permit for a year.
In the Spotsylvania case, police said the victim was sitting inside his family's van with his four children outside the Giant grocery store in the Harrison Crossing shopping center.
(Excerpt) Read more at 2.timesdispatch.com ...
Don't need a mechanical safety IF you realize your BRAIN is your primary safety with ANY weapon.
Follow the three or four (depending on who put out the rules - military, NRA, firearms manufacturers, etc.) BASIC rules of safe weapons handling and there is virtually no way you can hurt yourself or anyone else.
Most of it is COMMON SENSE, like using a proper holster designed for the handgun you are carrying.
In a semiautomatic Glock the answer is problematic, it “aint gonna” go bang unless you pull he trigger. I actually do not like Glocks but that is another story.
I carry either a 9mm Browning Parabellum or a 45 ACP 1911. I carry them with a round in the chamber. If I pull the trigger it is not “gonna go bang” unless I have cocked the hammer back prior to the first shot, at which time it then becomes a semiautomatic and goes bang every time I pull he trigger until I have depleted the magazine.
Glocks are well designed weapons and do exactly what they are designed to do. Glocks are not forgiving of stupidity and do go bang when you pull he trigger if it has a round in the chamber. Revolvers do this also.
NOW IS THE TIME TO READ THE GOSPEL OF JOHN BROWNING, BELOW.
1 In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was THE pistol, and it was good. And behold the Lord said, “Thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it workith. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain.”
2 “And shouldst thou muck with it, and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm.”
3 And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.
4 Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it, and these profaners didst try and fit more rounds of ammunition into the magazines than the holy number of seven, appointed for the .45.
5 And lo, they didst install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord. For they doth break and lose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle.
6 And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunctions to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.
7 Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men, the lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.
8 And being a deceitful spirit, the lord of the underworld did make these plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did appear to function.
9 And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both cock and fire them and which require a “dingus” to make them appear safe.
10 But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and didst proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol and with the trigger cocking pistols for lo their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken. Yet man continue to gloat over these new pistols blaming evil forces for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.
11 And when man had been totally ensnared with the plastic pistol, the lord of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-Boom to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men. And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.
12 Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the prophet had intended.
13 And the men of the land didst drive out the charlatans and profaners from the land, and there was joy and peace in the land, except for the evil sprits which tried occasionally to prey on the men and women of the land and who were sent to the place of eternal damnation b by the followers of John.
a Several old manuscripts add the following text. “And they [also rendered as “these men”] didst chamber it for cartridges who's calibers startith with numbers less than the Holy Number 4. And lo the Lord did cause great grief amongst these men when their enemies who were struck in battle with these lesser numbers didst not fall but did continue to cause great harm.”
Just like any double action revolver.
Isn't that called a Mexican holster?
How do you like the P64?
I keep eyeballing them on dealer websites.
I just got a Bulgarian Makarov and absolutely love it. I figure that since I'm already buying 9x18, I might as well check into some of the other Iron Curtain pistols chambered for the round.
Disagree. If your not competent enough to carry a loaded weapon safely, you should probably leave it at home.
IIRC, the Glocks that NYPD have the infamous NY trigger. I think the trigger pull is something like 12 lbs. Probably one reason why you often hear about some shootout where the cops fired off 150 rounds and didn’t hit the perps.
Most people want a firearm that works that way.
It is very sad that he shot himself in front of his wife and kids. A life changing moment for sure.
The NYPD guys I know are really strange about guns, it’s like they are uncomfortable with them. It could be the result of an anti RKBA upbringing. You’ve always got to consider safety but shooting should be a natural function.
And I don’t want to hear any nonsense about how the 9mm isn’t an effective round, as it is very effective loaded with Cor-Bon or Hydra-Shok ammunition and center mass is double-tapped.
A 9mm is easier and less expensive to become proficient with.
I don’t care how much more stopping power a .45 is purported to have (The difference is minimal), it’s worthless if you can’t hit the target.
I know, off topic and I don’t want to turn this into a pissing contest between the 9mm and the .45, but it is expensive to shoot and become proficient with a .45
Plus my M9 holds 15+1, but don’t tell anyone as I live in California but the mag is a pre-ban, so I’m legal.
As soon as I read the story, I prayed for the man and his family, too. And I was just thinking today how no one is immune from tragic accidents, like the father reaching for a baseball for his son, or the father using a knife while cooking dinner, both incidents ending tragically in front of children. How many split-second mistakes do most people make - taking their eyes off the road for a moment when they’re driving, for example - and nothing happens. People are usually so lucky. This man probably reached for the gun a gazillion times, but, this one time, it cost him his life in front of his wife and young children. My heart goes out to them.
Guns are always loaded.
Don't point the firearm at anything you don't wish to destroy.
Keep you finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
Only cops should carry guns...oh wait. Yeah, I saw that video.
I can rack the slide on my M9 with one hand as long as I have a solid edge to push the rear sights against.
Like the edge of an open car door for example, or even a table or a chair.
I like having 16 rounds handy, as the first couple of shoots will leave the shooter temporarily night blinded and deaf in a dark environment from the muzzle flash and the loud bang the round makes when the firearm is discharged.
I’ve done a little training in a dark environment, and you can’t see or hear for a a while after firing off a couple of rounds and leaves one a bit disorientated, especially after firing a .357 or .44 Magnum.
Uhh...no. You carry your weapon in a proper holster, know your weapon and don’t unintentionally pull the trigger.
A pistol with a chambered round is no different than a DA revolver. Carrying a weapon takes humility and a profound respect for what the weapon can do. No one with any brains tucks a weapon into their waistband without a holster - that is a failure to comprehend the solemn duty of being safe.
The bad guy already has the element of surprise...I’m not going to cede even a fraction of a second to him - that’s why I carry chambered. I might need my other hand to hold him off, you never know. I just have to point and pull; exactly how I like it to be.
That’s risky, not 100%. If you short stroke it you can end up with an empty chamber.
I changed the springs in my P64 to lighten up the double action after my wife complained. Even so when the P64’s safety is on, which also de-cocks the hammer and disconnects the trigger, I feel just as safe with a cartridge in the chamber as I do when carrying a loaded revolver.
The Makarovs are actually good bargain pistols and well-made, depending on the country of origin.
One more tip - no matter what you shoot, if you have a Pistol or Revolver for home defense, learn how to shoot with your opposite hand.
How many times have you woken up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom, only to find your dominant arm numb from sleeping on it with your head on your outstretched arm and it’s numb for a minute or two?
When you tuck it in your waistband, you are pointing it at your crotch.
LOL, I did that this morning.
BTW, good tip. I use a S&W 642 as my nightstand gun, and I always practice both right and left handed shooting with it.
For a long time I carried empty chamber. Whether strong hand or weak hand, I saw no discernible difference between time on target or accuracy compared to chambered. (I am a proponent of weak side carry, but that is OT).
When one is unable to use both hands, it is possible to rack against the side of the leg (no finger on trigger, please), but not optimal.
However, I began to envision too many scenarios where it was inadequate to surmise that I would always be able to have both hands free, and switched to chambered carry. Carrying while driving was always an issue the other way (btw - left hip carry is better in that case, too). It took a while to get over prior conditioning, but it stuck.
IMO, for a civilian, the most likely threat is one that requires a quick response, and may require the other hand for clearing space around you, a slightly different threat than the one facing someone on patrol, where it often is more prudent to have an empty chamber unless otherwise instructed.
Around the house, there is a one step to fire rule which all adults are aware of, and conditioned for. If the chamber is full, the safety is on, and the weapon out of reach/sight of little folks. If empty, the safety is off. This allows for quick visual assessment (though one may still wish to verify the chamber).
Occasionally, I forget to take the safety off once the holstered weapon is securely in place, but this is more easily correctable than several other possibilities related to my forgetfulness.
That’s why one should practice doing it.
It can be done without ruining your sights, or in my case, my Tritium Nite Sites.
Some firearm self-defense classes teach this with a pistol similar to your own so you don’t have to ruin the sights racking the slide repeatedly with one hand with your own weapon.
I like the luxury of have the extra rounds in a situation where I might be faced with multiple adversaries, and/or temporary night blindness and deafness after those first couple of shots are fired.
I’ve experienced the night blindness and deafness in a dark environment - you can’t see or hear anything and every round you have left becomes more valuable.
I’ll always take 16 rounds over 6 and risk the off chance of having to rack a round one handed.
Especially if you have a nice, butter smooth slide.
But to each his own. This is just my personal experience and training speaking.
I need to get out to the range as it’s been a while...
People start in childhood to develop the habit of putting their fingers on the triggers of cap guns, squirt guns, butane lighters, spray bottles, etc. The habit carries over to their handguns—grab the gun, finger goes to the trigger.
I would advise anybody who is new to concealed carry or is considering it for the first time to start replacing that habit with a new one. Practice drawing, over and over again. Get some snap caps so as not to freak out the family while practicing. Buy a realistic BB gun and practice while watching TV. Practice. Change the habit. POINT that finger.
As soon as I saw the headline I thought “Glock”.
I was right. Nice guns. But I wouldn’t want one for that very reason.
They can call that thing on the trigger a safety all they want. But it isn’t.
Or you use your arm to support yourself as you get out of bed, not realizing your support arm is numb and you fall on your ass?
I've done that before.
My Prayers to his family. Poor man. :(
Glocks are nice, but they just feel unbalanced, even with a full mag.
Most PolyCarb Pistols feel like that to me, Beretta included.
I was thinking of getting a Beretta 9000, but it just doesn’t feel natural in my hand.
I guess I’m just used to the feel of steel and the M9
But when people ask me “what type of handgun should I get” I tell them to go to the range, rent several, and find the one that you shoot the best.
Like I said, to each his own.
I wouldn’t mind a plastic Kel-Tec .32 for concealed carry, but they’re illegal for sale in Kalifornia as they don’t have an external safety.
The Glock is a simple firing mechanism, very reliable, and accurate. When you see police carrying a Glock it is always in a holster and most always not concealed. Ask a few detective who carry in concealed holsters what they prefer as primary pistol and what they carry as backup. I own a Glock with a 9mm barrel and mags and a .40 cal barrel and mags. I concealed carry a CZ82, chambered with hammer down. If I holster and carry my .45 Taurus OSS DS it is always in aholster, chambered and decocked. The Glock is reserved for holstering in a Molle Vest or as an extra in a fanny pack, and I never carry it chambered, but never have just that pistol to depend on.
The gun went off because he pulled the trigger.
AS far as the news story, it’s a liberal reporter wanting to install redundant mechanical safeties to make up for the stupidity of a few individuals. Never mind that millions carry Glocks and Revolvers without a problem.
Actually a glock even though a fine weapon is a poor choice for a carry weapon. There have been more cops shot with their own glocks than with any other weapon!
The safety system on a 1911 has saved more lives because of it’s complexity than all the glocks ever produced could dream of.
I own both guns but carry a 1911!
Police departments jumped on the glock because they didn’t have to teach weapon use just shot placement and according to FBI stats police shot placement is only 50 percent of the time.
In classes I have put on when I allowed somebody to take an unloaded glock from me they were able to pull the trigger my 1911 they were not able to make the gun fire before I had it back in my hands or were able to display a backup weapon!
Safety was a priority during those drills but now what firearm do you want to carry?
And let’s face it, if the Phantom wore two 1911’s, they must be the best.
Gave himself a “Glock racing stripe”, alas.
Glocks are reliable (except for when firing reloads) but are very unforgiving if you get a finger or even a fold of cloth inside the trigger guard.
Condolences to his family.
Before I even read beyond the title, my mind was screaming GLOCK!
The reasoning behind the Glock’s safety is as follows:
1. If you want to fire the weapon, you depress the trigger.
2. If you want to fire the weapon, you must release the safety.
3. One way to be assured that you have depressed the safety when you want to fire the weapon is to put it where it must be depressed when you pull the trigger.
4. The striker in the Glock is about 1/3 cocked before you depress the trigger, not enough to discharge the primer on the round in the chamber. This pre-cock somewhat reduces the trigger pull.
5. The partially cocked striker can not hit the primer unless the internal safety (located in the center of the trigger) is depressed.
The Glock is made to balance reliability, safety, and speed of operation. It is the preferred sidearm of some people, as designed. Because of relatively high rate of inadvertant discharge, some police departments required changes, such as the higher trigger pull variant called the “New York Trigger” required by the PDNY.
Other people disagree with the balance struck by its designers, and so make different choices.
I have a Smith and Wesson double action revolver in .45 ACP. It will also discharge if you pull the trigger, and it has no external safety at all except the operator, and the trigger mechanism. It is not normally carried about while cocked. Not very concealable, but that is my choice. Yours may differ.
Russian approach: “Is gun. Is not supposed to be safe.”
XDM is a solid choice.
The early XD versions, like the Glock required dropping the striker by pulling the trigger, hopefully on an empty chamber.
To me that is a “Rule 3” violation, which I didn’t want to sign up for as a matter of routine. Does the XDM still require that to disassemble?
12 lbs? That’s strong......I’ve got a Nagant 7.62 pistol, WWII that’s a gas-seal design (the trigger pull actually has to pull the cylinder back away from the seal over the barrel throat to rotate a new round in)....it’s a DA but has a 25 lb pull!......
Thank you for the explanation on the Glock trigger safety. And I like the quote!
Russian approach: Is gun. Is not supposed to be safe.
My old man used to say how Skill-saws and guns scared him (he was a builder and a hunter). “But - I also have all my fingers and never shot anything I didn’t want to!” (I’m thinking “scared” wasn’t quite the right word for it - but it worked on me as a kid using both of them. (Although I must admit when it comes to skill-saws, chain saws and other items spinning at high rpms next to my body - scared fits pretty well!)
It does have an external safety, in the sense that there is a separate external lever that must be depressed to permit the striker to move.
That lever is located in the middle of the trigger.
1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Don’t point your gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your booger hook off the bang switch until your sights are lined up.
4. Know your target and what lies behind it.
No - you don’t need to press the trigger, just a locking mechinism on the slide needs to be rotated and then it slides apart.
My main compaint against the glock is the safty built into the trigger. It just doesn’t seem safe to me. Tough I own one I don’t carry it.
My old style .44 Navy single action lets me drop the hammer between loaded chambers, so I get most of the benefit of an empty chamber, and still get that one extra round: A 20% gain for that oh-so-common situation in my pastoral existance wherein I miss the bad guy the first 5 times.
And the added round, for a firearm stoked with black powder makes the defensive smoke cloud even thicker.
Right here I realized that this was one of those false gnostic gun gospels that hippie gunslingers try to pawn off on the gullible in the glock flock. All scripture needs to be tested against both the special revelation of other scripture and against the general revelation, which is reality. And, while I love my 1911s to death, and they're the most fun and best shooting guns I've ever owned, they don't necessarily workith when needeth.
And yeah, anyone who carries a glock without a holster is a moron.