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Having Kittens Over E-Cat.
E-Cat World ^ | Nov. 21, 2011 | Frank Acland

Posted on 11/21/2011 7:47:23 AM PST by count-your-change

Acland quotes another cold fusion researcher at the E-Cat World page:

"“In the last 8 weeks I have been astounded by a superior nanotechnology that will capture the imagination of even the greatest foes of LENR. I believe all of LENR is just a new and unanticipated form of nanomagnetism.”

(Excerpt) Read more at ecatnews.net ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: coldfusion; ecat
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Rossi was asked if he would let anyone tour his factory. Answer: "No", which seems strange since a while back he was going to hire workers for some sort of activity.
1 posted on 11/21/2011 7:47:25 AM PST by count-your-change
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To: count-your-change

Now he is using made-up words to describe it- what on earth is nanomagnetism?


2 posted on 11/21/2011 8:04:38 AM PST by Mr. K (Physically unable to proofreed <--- oops, see?)
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To: count-your-change

I can’t find anything about nano or Acland at your links - do you have a specific page number or date?

I don’t blame Rossi a bit for keeping people out of his factory. It’s a private business and every business operates with some level of security.

The real story here that I saw was the new thermoelectric concept that is supposedl up to 15% efficient, which is referenced from some 3rd party developer.


3 posted on 11/21/2011 8:05:08 AM PST by bigbob
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To: count-your-change

If this worked, he would ALREADY be a multi-billionaire

He is doing EVERYTHING that previous scammers have done, and not one thing to prove it works


4 posted on 11/21/2011 8:07:02 AM PST by Mr. K (Physically unable to proofreed <--- oops, see?)
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To: Mr. K
Now he is using made-up words to describe it- what on earth is nanomagnetism?

The only documents describing it in detail are in Reformed Egyptian.
5 posted on 11/21/2011 8:11:27 AM PST by Dr. Sivana (May Mitt Romney be the Mo Udall of 2012.)
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To: count-your-change

Maybe he’s paranoid about industrial espionage. Doesn’t want to see a Chinese knock off hit the market before HIS machine does.


6 posted on 11/21/2011 8:12:07 AM PST by SuziQ
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To: bigbob
At the link, ecatnews.net find first article, it begins with with “Rossi, Production,” etc., then hit the “read more” box.

It's a short article and I didn't want to post the entire article. I should have been a bit more clear, yes.

7 posted on 11/21/2011 8:14:18 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
Here's the proper link.

http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/11/as-rossi-talks-of-production-and-outsourcing-competitors-speak-up/

I notice Rossi is going to outsource production. What about secrecy? What about the self destruct mechanism?

8 posted on 11/21/2011 8:16:04 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: count-your-change
“I AM RECEIVING TO MY MAIL THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS FROM MANY PERSONS:

1- IS MY TECHNOLOGY FIT TO MAKE WEAPONS? ANSWER: NOT AT ALL

That's pretty obvious, unless the military wants to take five hours to brew a pot of coffee.

9 posted on 11/21/2011 8:22:47 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Kevmo

I can’t believe you missed this...


10 posted on 11/21/2011 8:31:04 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Mr. K
Now hold on there. The new and improved, Possi approved web site, by Hydrofusion, has taken on a goodly bit of responsibility to purchasers of Rossi’s device. Money back and all that.

“If this worked, he would ALREADY be a multi-billionaire”

Here's what we'll do...Let's go with a “Big Oil” conspiracy to spice things up!

Seriously...Rossi has suffered from an excess of hype...both his and others. Now the competition is showing up and mickey mouse in a tin box won't cut it anymore.

11 posted on 11/21/2011 8:39:02 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

“nanomagnetism?”

Somebody found Tesla’a missing papers?


12 posted on 11/21/2011 8:41:03 AM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: bigbob
I don’t blame Rossi a bit for keeping people out of his factory. It’s a private business and every business operates with some level of security.

Not to mention that two of his factories have burned down.
1) The one where he supposedly heated his whole factory for over six months with an ECAT, BTW, where's that ECAT?

2) He was supposedly producing TE devices (Thermolectric Device which produces electricity from heat) Rossi's TE was supposed to be 20% efficient. When it came time for independent tests, that factory burned down and he can't produce the 20% ones anymore, now, his are no more efficient than others and they had an extremely high failure rate.

13 posted on 11/21/2011 8:42:47 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: count-your-change

hey count,

I design and build proprietary process equipment and would never let “casual” observers in for a “look see” on our processes or equipment.

Anyone who has intellectual property (IP) has to have his head examined if he allows anyone, other than an absolute need to know folks under his factory roof.

His activity is not strange it is just in keeping with good IP practice, and to do otherwise he would certainly loose his proprietary and confidential IP status.

You are obviously unfamiliar with IP or confidential process property or you would not bring it up.

Lurking’


14 posted on 11/21/2011 8:47:15 AM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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To: SuziQ
Thing is, his machine has already hit the market. And if the Chinese wanted to reverse engineer his device they could very soon and have a large market at home, something all of Rossi’s patents and secret herbs and spices could do nothing about.

Yes, I understand paranoia about theft of ideas, money has no morals, but the only part he was going to manufacture was the “reactor” and that a simple machine shop could do with ease.

So again I suspect he's inflating the truth with his hopes and hype.

15 posted on 11/21/2011 8:53:07 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: LurkingSince'98
His activity is not strange it is just in keeping with good IP practice, and to do otherwise he would certainly loose his proprietary and confidential IP status.

It is also not strange for some who has no Intellectual Property, and just a scam. Letting people around would get him found out, and lose his (might just be something to it) status.

Seagulls report, you decide. Squawk.
16 posted on 11/21/2011 8:59:21 AM PST by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: Mr. K

In Rossi’s defense, Brian Ahern is the one who used the nano-magnetism term and it is a real term.


17 posted on 11/21/2011 8:59:53 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Moonman62
Show off with your big long links! Anyway as I recall Rossi was going to manufacture the “reactors” and the more mundane stuff farm out.

” What about the self destruct mechanism?”

That's a bit worrying. But maybe there's thermite in the thing to melt it down unless opened correctly. OOOps! E-Cat on the barbie-b-cue!

18 posted on 11/21/2011 9:09:57 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

Hey- I am totally with you- I am a PHYSICIST

I would love to see this work

But the effort he is going through to prevent access and examination is ridiculous to the point of making me VERY skeptical- all scammers I have seen over the last 30 years behave this same way.

If I had something that was generating more electricity than I put in, I would document it, and then invite the whole world to see.


19 posted on 11/21/2011 9:15:17 AM PST by Mr. K (Physically unable to proofreed <--- oops, see?)
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To: count-your-change

Those reactors are pretty small. I wonder why they take hours to warm up.


20 posted on 11/21/2011 9:40:10 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Mr. K
Hey- I am totally with you- I am a PHYSICIST

Very cool. I don't want to pry but what do you do, teach, work at a LHC type place, nuclear research???

What do you think of the physics of the Ecat? Did Rossi really discover something new, something already known or a complete scam. I say it's a scam but I want it to be true. That is how I think he keeps it going, people wanting, against all odds, to believe that it works.

21 posted on 11/21/2011 9:40:29 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Mr. K
Now he is using made-up words to describe it- what on earth is nanomagnetism?

Very small magnetism!

22 posted on 11/21/2011 9:46:10 AM PST by Lazamataz (Monkeys do not like getting slapped, contrary to popular belief.)
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To: Mr. K

I mean, come on, he-LLOOO-ooo.


23 posted on 11/21/2011 9:46:41 AM PST by Lazamataz (Monkeys do not like getting slapped, contrary to popular belief.)
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To: LurkingSince'98
Maybe protection of some secret process or equipment is the motivation but from all the details given only the catalysts is the truly unknown.

Maybe the factories don't exist. Not in fifth floor apartment or a mail drop office certainly. If people are going to be hired to work in these factories I assume they'll have to look at what they're doing.

“You are obviously unfamiliar with IP or confidential process property or you would not bring it up.”

An unwarranted assumption.

Rossi isn't designing something proprietary to the customer. Anyone who purchases his device can tear it down and see exactly what is in it how it was constructed.

“His activity is not strange it is just in keeping with good IP practice, and to do otherwise he would certainly loose his proprietary and confidential IP status.”

Take a tour of a Coca Cola bottler and you still won't know the formula for the syrup.

If Rossi has no factories to tour the whole question is moot.

24 posted on 11/21/2011 9:53:28 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Moonman62

Maybe it will be used for Steam Bomb!


25 posted on 11/21/2011 9:58:34 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
Maybe it will be used for Steam Bomb!

Yes, based on the premise of the boiled frog anecdote. Before the enemy troops realize what's happening, they'll be cooked to death extremely slowly.
26 posted on 11/21/2011 10:03:01 AM PST by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

Just the CliffsNotes.


27 posted on 11/21/2011 10:05:12 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: SuziQ
Doesn’t want to see a Chinese knock off hit the market before HIS machine does.

Why not? Reagan used a cold fusion scam to help bankrupt the USSR.

28 posted on 11/21/2011 10:08:06 AM PST by Pan_Yan
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To: Moonman62

It’s like the gas tank on a big SUV, It’s not what you put in that counts, it’s what you get out.


29 posted on 11/21/2011 10:16:11 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Moonman62
Those reactors are pretty small. I wonder why they take hours to warm up.

The yeast has to rise first and that is an excellent point. The temperature can't rise to infinity and is seems it shouldn't take the nickel that long to get to the right temp. I thought Rossi's said something along the lines of that it takes a while for the LENR to get going.

Now Defkalion is saying they're going to announce something in 15 days?

Here's an interesting link:

Hyperion testing

Now, is the Hyperion their version of the Ecat or the device that converts what the Ecat puts out into electricity?? If you look at the circuit board in the little square container, it has silkscreen on the component side. If this thing was a prototype, I wouldn't expect them to have what looks like a production board.

Didn't Rossi and Defkalion have a falling out? I don't trust Rossi as far as I could throw him but it would suck to have Defkalion get all the attention and credit if this thing happens to work. I'd actually be PO'd on Rossi's behalf.

One other thing is, if you look at those pictures, they're all close up so you can't see how big the place is except for the top picture. They also label the pics as test lab, lab 1 and lab 2 and production so either they have a decent sized facility or they're pulling a fast one. Again though, like Rossi, they built something too. It sure would be nice to have this thing subjected to a rigorous test and settle once and for all whether this works or not. They've had more than one qualified person or company volunteer to test one. They only need to prove one works and since they're the size of a microwave, what's the big deal? Rossi could protect his secret by having his folks watching round the clock but he won't do it.

Why?

30 posted on 11/21/2011 10:23:29 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Mr. K
The Fat Lady hasn't had her turn yet. When the e-cats or whatever they are going to be called actually are in service and examined by an independent lab then the third act of this opera can close.
31 posted on 11/21/2011 10:28:37 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Moonman62

because it’s COLD fusion, they have defrost the reactor. In a pinch they can be put into the microwave for on 30% power for about 5 minutes.


32 posted on 11/21/2011 10:58:57 AM PST by Made In The USA (This post may be recorded for quality purposes.)
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To: Mr. K
Now he is using made-up words to describe it- what on earth is nanomagnetism?

I have no idea. But I can dream. I would love to see traditionally non-magnetic materials become magnetic. Imagine a tiny ceramic device at the bottom of a container, that converts heat into electricity. It could keep a beverage cool, while the energy is converted into stirring a drink. I've got lots of ideas.

33 posted on 11/21/2011 11:05:07 AM PST by roadcat
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To: Lx
In Rossi’s defense, Brian Ahern is the one who used the nano-magnetism term and it is a real term.
Interestingly, Brian Ahern has made it very clear that he thinks Rossi is a fraud.

LINK

34 posted on 11/21/2011 12:23:07 PM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Mr. K

“If I had something that was generating more electricity than I put in, I would document it, and then invite the whole world to see.”

As a “PHYSICIST” I would think you would have paid more attention to what the claims have been. At no point did anyone involved say it put out any electricity at all. It puts out low level heat at this point which is not particularly useful in generating electricity.


35 posted on 11/21/2011 12:27:54 PM PST by babygene (Figures don't lie, but liars can figure...)
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To: Johnny B.
I didn't realize it was Ahern who wrote that. Isn't the Rossi fan club saying NASA is saying positive things about the Ecat?

From your link:

“Rossi has been clever enough to change the trick on each successive demo. Using a secret customer is a great way to allow him to fulfill his promise to demo the 1 MW unit in October. He then evaded conducting the demo transparently by saying that the customer demanded the demo conditions. The “customer’ signed off when Rossi gave him the wink and he shut things down without any measurements by anyone except the shill.

“Occam’s Razor, on the other hand, says that 12 inconclusive demos in succession are not random. It is well planned and orchestrated. He has used the journalists like a team of puppets.”

Ouch!

36 posted on 11/21/2011 12:31:07 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Lx
Isn't the Rossi fan club saying NASA is saying positive things about the Ecat?
Yes, that's part of Kevmo's ostrich droppings. (If he can call us seagulls, I think we can call him an ostrich; you know, burying his head in the sand).

As far as I can tell, almost all of that junk was rumor and speculation from Sterling D. Allan, Rossi's partner. He's been spreading rumors about what companies/government organizations were the "secret customers". Even though Allan is working with Rossi, his rumors seem to be almost completely wrong. I don't know if that's because Allan is so gullible, or because he is intentionally misdirecting everyone; either theory seems reasonable to me.

37 posted on 11/21/2011 12:47:04 PM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Johnny B.

Sterling Allen is the reason I posted the picture of Joe Isuzu.


38 posted on 11/21/2011 12:59:13 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: babygene

Heat can be transformed to electricity very efficiently with a stirling engine.

Isn’t it a bit strange that Rossi doesn’t just generate electricity and sell it to the power grid?

Generating a small amount of heat would be an actual money machine.

To me, this is a telling sign of something fishy. Rossi is not following the path of least resistance to cash flow.


39 posted on 11/21/2011 1:15:40 PM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: Lx
I didn't realize it was Ahern who wrote that. Isn't the Rossi fan club saying NASA is saying positive things about the Ecat?
To be fair, Ahern's comments were not part of any information from NASA. It was his personal opinion on Rossi's demos.

However, that same page does show the NASA PowerPoint slide stating that Rossi has not sufficiently demonstrated that his E-Cat is producing energy beyond what could be done chemically (i.e. cheating).

40 posted on 11/21/2011 1:18:21 PM PST by Johnny B.
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To: babygene

duhhhhhhhhhh it was AN EXAMPLE duhhhhhhhhhhhh


41 posted on 11/21/2011 2:15:57 PM PST by Mr. K (Physically unable to proofreed <--- oops, see?)
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To: Lx

I don’t see anyhing from the ECat that says anything other than FRUAD yet

After you have studied physics you just look at things differently - I look at this and think I am NOT convinced.

I am sure there is a lot of data to go through, but you can wade though a ton of documentation for everything you see- you would never get any work done- you look at it from an overview, and see if it passes the smell test- then if it does, you look further into the data

I have not seen enough to convince me to look further.


42 posted on 11/21/2011 2:19:27 PM PST by Mr. K (Physically unable to proofreed <--- oops, see?)
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To: roadcat
Why do your ideas require the magnetic element to be ceramic?

In any case, there are already magnetic ceramic materials. Your fridge magnets are made of ferrite, an oxide of iron (that's a ceramic).

And there are devices that convert heat (or more accurately temperature differences) into electricity. Look up thermoelectrics. They're nothing but a peltier junction run backwards.
43 posted on 11/21/2011 3:02:58 PM PST by aNYCguy
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To: ZX12R

hey Z

you are sadly misinformed.

SPAWAR, the Navy Space and Naval Warfare Systems Command has been doing independent research and has replicated the physics behind Nickel-Hydrogen’s LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reactions) that Rossi mentions as the basis of his invention. They conclusively proved radiation emissions.
I believe, but have not confirmed that SPAWAR is one of the groups who have purchased one of Rossi’s plants.

In addition, Rossi has a US patent application on his invention see here: http://ecatnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/USeCatPatentApplication.pdf

So he has his cards on the table, except for his hole cards, which somehow you think he should show you ...

that’s funny who are you that he should show you his proprietary intellectual property?

Lurking’


44 posted on 11/21/2011 3:44:14 PM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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To: Mr. K
Hi Mr K,

What is “FRUAD” and why should we care what you think?

“I have not seen enough to convince me to look further.”

The following are Yes or No answers:

Have you read Rossi’s US patent?

Have you watched SPAWAR’s videos which show radiation from Nickel-Hydrogen?

Do you know what LENR are?

Can you explain why Copper is a result of Nickel-Hydrogen interaction?

If the answer to any of the above is NO then you are a FRAUD (not a FRUAD) yourself.

Lurking’

45 posted on 11/21/2011 4:05:24 PM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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To: Mr. K

Hey K

then it was A BAAAAAAAAAD EXAMPLE because Rossi’s unit produces heat not electricity.

Lurking’


46 posted on 11/21/2011 4:08:56 PM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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To: aNYCguy
Why do your ideas require the magnetic element to be ceramic?

No particular reason. In this case, the ceramic would be a part of the beverage container, built-in at time of manufacture. Imagine having mugs that when you pour soda, the beverage self-cools. No ice, no watered-down drink. Or other beverages that stay cool without ice, and self-stir. No batteries or wires to contend with, and can be placed in a dishwasher without harm. I would patent it if I had a working prototype.

47 posted on 11/21/2011 4:31:03 PM PST by roadcat
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To: LurkingSince'98
Check it out:

Long but interesting read and multiple sources to separate rumor from fact

Believe it or not.

Small quote about SPAWAR

Rossi’s Mystery Customer Performs Disappearing Act, Twice Posted on November 12, 2011

On Nov. 2, John Brandon published a story on Andrea Rossi and his claim of an “energy catalyzer” on Fox News.

Brandon speculated, based on what he read on Sterling Allan’s free energy blog, that U.S. Navy’s Space and Naval Warfare Systems Center San Diego was Rossi’s mysterious customer and that they measured and verified Rossi’s test.

On Nov. 9, I asked James Fallin, the director of public affairs at SPAWAR San Diego, “is there any truth to the suggestion published on Fox News that SPAWAR is, or is considering purchasing any device from Andrea Rossi?”

“No truth at all,” Fallin wrote.

On Nov. 11, Mark Gibbs, writing for Forbes.com, wrote that Craig Brown, who operates the Free Energy Truth Web site, claimed that Rossi’s “first” customer was Austin, Texas, based National Instruments Corp.

Gibbs checked with National Instruments. According to John Pasquarette, Vice President of Corporate Marketing and eBusiness, National Instruments did not purchase a 1 MW cold fusion plant from Rossi.

Sander Olson, a writer for Next Big Future, contacted me yesterday about the SPAWAR rumor.

“After having read your articles on E-CAT and receiving independent confirmation from SPAWAR that they are not taking possession of any device from Rossi,” Olson wrote, “I have decided that he is almost certainly a fraud and [I] will not pursue an interview. I always suspected that he was a fraud and I now find the evidence overwhelming. Thank you for providing assistance in this matter.”

48 posted on 11/21/2011 4:56:41 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: roadcat
Imagine having mugs that when you pour soda, the beverage self-cools.

Are you saying the mugs would be shipped with a built-in battery that would run down and expire?

Because you need an energy source. It takes energy to create a difference in temperature.
49 posted on 11/21/2011 5:08:01 PM PST by aNYCguy
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To: Lx

Hi Lx

that doesn’t change the fact that

1) SPAWAR doing their own independent research, positively confirmed radiation from Nickel-Hydrogen LENR. They have several hour long videos describing their research and results.

2)Someone confounded the fact that NI’s instrumented system was being used to control Rossi’s reactors - as flogged to death on other threads - with the possibility that NI had bought Rossi’s units. That does not change the fact that Rossi is using NI’s control systems to control his process as confirmed in multiple places.

3) Just because Sander Olson takes it as fraud - does that mean it is a fraud - hell no. Barak Obama believes in in the 13th Imam is coming - does that mean he is?

4)When Sander Olson applies for his own US patent claiming an opposite effect from Rossi then maybe I would be mildly interested in what he said.

However, Sander Olson is an Historian: “Sander Olson, 33, is Vice President of NanoApex Corp., has a bachelors degree in History, and a Masters degree in the History of Technology and Science.”

Good old Sander is a history buff and I always consult my high school history teacher when I am checking on the validity of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions.

you’re joking right?.

lurking’


50 posted on 11/21/2011 6:35:52 PM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Catholics=John 6:53-58 Everyone else=John 6:60-66)
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