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Little Noticed Provision Kills ATF Shotgun Ban Plans
Ammoland ^ | 19 November, 2011 | Evan F. Nappen

Posted on 11/21/2011 10:30:41 AM PST by marktwain

Manasquan, NJ --(Ammoland.com)- Saiga 12’s, Benelli M4’s and virtually any other tactical/military shotgun can no longer be banned from import by the ATF.

A little noticed provision tucked into a large appropriations bill obviously flew under the radar of the “Brady Bunch” and the “Illegal Mayors.”

The new law effectively kills ATF’s plan to stop tactical/military shotgun imports by way of abusing the “sporting purpose” requirement and their agency rulemaking powers.

The “Fiscal Year 2012 Agriculture, Commerce/Justice/Science (CJS) and Transportation/Housing/Urban Development (THUD) Appropriations bills”, also known as the “Mini-Bus”, was passed by Congress, and signed into law by President Obama on November 18, 2011.

The new law reads as follows:

SEC. 541. None of the funds made available by this Act may be used to pay the salaries or expenses of personnel to deny, or fail to act on, an application for the importation of any model of shotgun if–

(1) all other requirements of law with respect to the proposed importation are met; and (2) no application for the importation of such model of shotgun, in the same configuration, had been denied by the Attorney General prior to January 1, 2011, on the basis that the shotgun was not particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

This new law became necessary due to the ATF releasing on January 27, 2011, a “Study on the Importability of Certain Shotguns.” The “Study” argued “military shotguns, or shotguns with common military features that are unsuitable for traditional shotgun sports” should be banned from import into the U.S.

The ban would have applied to all shotguns including semi-autos, pump-actions, double barrels, etc. As part of the rulemaking process, comments from the public on the study were allowed to be submitted until May 1, 2011.

Many gun owners had been dreading the ATF’s decision, knowing full well what ATF’s intention was from the start.

Saiga-20 Autoloading Shotguns

Saiga-20 Autoloading Shotguns

For more info visit: http://tiny.cc/t2fob and search on the Phrase “shotgun”.

Side bar: Interestingly Section 219 of the same appropriations bill forbid funds to be used to provide working firearms to a drug cartel member. A year ago before Fast & Furious came to light, that would have seemed like common sense?

SEC. 219. None of the funds made available under this Act, other than for the national instant criminal background check system established under section 103 of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, may be used by a Federal law enforcement officer to facilitate the transfer of an operable firearm to an individual if the Federal law enforcement officer knows or suspects that the individual is an agent of a drug cartel, unless law enforcement personnel of the United…

About: Evan Nappen (www.efnappen.com) is a criminal defense attorney who has focused in firearms and weapons law for over 23 years. He is the author of New Hampshire Gun, Knife, and Weapon Law and the New Jersey Gun Law Guide. He is a director and the General Co


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: atf; banglist; importation; shotgun
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I believe I met Evan once, quite a few years ago, at a Gun Rights Policy Conference.
1 posted on 11/21/2011 10:30:45 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain
Take THAT ya anti-gunners!

Note to self - must purchase Saiga-20 Autoloading Shotgun.

2 posted on 11/21/2011 10:37:44 AM PST by Enterprise ("Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire)
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To: Enterprise

Yeah, now that we know what they’re trying to grab this time.


3 posted on 11/21/2011 10:42:44 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (Cain = National Sales Tax; Perry = Amnesty for Illegals; Romney = Obamacare forever. Who's left?)
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To: Cyber Liberty
Other good things have happened.

Major Victories in Congress for Gun Owners(NRA)

"-- Firearms Trace Data Disclaimer. A requirement that any trace data released must include a disclaimer stating such trace data cannot be used to draw broad conclusion about firearms-related crime."

Kinda makes me smile here. This is in response to the Administration's claims that guns from America are used in a lot of violent crime in Mexico.

4 posted on 11/21/2011 10:51:00 AM PST by Enterprise ("Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire)
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To: Enterprise

I highly doubt the liberals are going to honor such a restriction on the data. Obama’s DoJ will release it, and the left will demagog it.


5 posted on 11/21/2011 10:53:50 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (Cain = National Sales Tax; Perry = Amnesty for Illegals; Romney = Obamacare forever. Who's left?)
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To: marktwain

Like the Beretta Extrema 2 which can shoot twelve 12ga. rounds in less than two seconds?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk2mFcsa7mw


6 posted on 11/21/2011 10:56:21 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Enterprise; marktwain
Note to self - must purchase Saiga-20 Autoloading Shotgun.

What's a Saiga-20? 20ga version of the Saiga-12?

Here's a review and video of the Saiga-12. The video is worth the price of admission just to see and hear the redneck with the braided beard (I would presume that's Jeff Quinn).

My favorite quote from the review: "Within its range, nothing beats a well-tuned shotgun for social work." ROFL!

7 posted on 11/21/2011 10:58:10 AM PST by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: marktwain

Why is just the Ssaiga 20 mentioned? The Saiga 12 is a far more effective shotgun and would have far more buyers.

Or, is the gauge just a randomly selected example?


8 posted on 11/21/2011 10:59:48 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: marktwain
Wonder how that one slipped by Obama, oh well, he'll probably just issue an executive order correcting his little “oversite”?
9 posted on 11/21/2011 11:01:59 AM PST by apillar
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To: Nervous Tick

In a couple of days I’ll go to the gun dealer near me who sells Saiga and learn the difference.


10 posted on 11/21/2011 11:05:24 AM PST by Enterprise ("Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

I want one. NO, I NEED one.


11 posted on 11/21/2011 11:09:45 AM PST by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoUVeyaY_8&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLD0474A44C087F046


12 posted on 11/21/2011 11:14:21 AM PST by Osage Orange (Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

OMG!!! I must rethink a purchase of a Saiga now. 12 ROUNDS in a little over 2 seconds! Low recoil!


13 posted on 11/21/2011 11:15:43 AM PST by Enterprise ("Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire)
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To: Enterprise

>> OMG!!! I must rethink a purchase of a Saiga now.

Yeah, that Saiga looks pretty brutal on the shoulder relative to the Beretta. I just wish the Beretta came with a shorter barrel (but then you wouldn’t have the capacity I guess).

I’ve also got my eye on a Mossberg 930 SPX. I’m sure it’s nowhere near the Beretta in recoil reduction but it costs much less.


14 posted on 11/21/2011 11:27:35 AM PST by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: marktwain

The paperwork approval for importation will take a verrrry long time, I think.


15 posted on 11/21/2011 11:29:19 AM PST by Erik Latranyi
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To: marktwain

Glad I clicked through to the article and saw this little advertisement!

16 posted on 11/21/2011 11:42:14 AM PST by concentric circles
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To: Nervous Tick
I really DO like a shorter barrel. But I'm thinking down the road for something my wife could fire without dislocating her shoulder.

That Beretta could quickly and positively prevent a passel of perps from performing something particularly pathetic.

17 posted on 11/21/2011 12:03:03 PM PST by Enterprise ("Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire)
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To: marktwain

ping for later


18 posted on 11/21/2011 12:06:31 PM PST by packrat35 (America is rapidly becoming a police state that East Germany could be proud of!)
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To: Osage Orange
"Don't try dis at home. I'm a professional Russian." LOL

Not only is it recoilless it seemed to be sound suppressed. He doesn't appear to be wearing any hearing protection and it doesn't sound that loud in the audio track. Maybe that's just the way the video equipment recorded it and he's blasting his professional Russian ear drums out.

19 posted on 11/21/2011 12:09:29 PM PST by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye
Ha!!

The guy does some good video's..........

20 posted on 11/21/2011 12:25:43 PM PST by Osage Orange (Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum)
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To: Nervous Tick
I bought a Saiga 12, went to shoot it on a cold alaska day, and the magazine shattered ont he first and only shot I every fired from it. Sold it and got a mossberg 930 semi-auto. The mossberg is very functional and reliable...What I absolutely couldn't get over was that the safety is on the top of the rear receiver like a standard mossberg, and you cannot reach it while holding the pistol grip.

I sold mine and got a Benelli M4 after months of saving....Worth every penny !

21 posted on 11/21/2011 12:49:52 PM PST by SENTINEL (Romney is to Conservatism what Mormonism is to Christianity.)
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To: marktwain; harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; wku man; SLB; ...
Best news I've heard all day.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

22 posted on 11/21/2011 12:51:28 PM PST by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: Joe Brower
Thanks for the Ping!

Now if we can just get 18 USC 922 (o) repealed "under the radar", I'd be a happy camper....hell in fact, lets undo Chapter 4 of the GCA ;)

23 posted on 11/21/2011 1:02:55 PM PST by DCBryan1 ("Forget the Lawyers! FIRST YOU MUST kill the journalists!" - Die Ritter, die sagen, "nee"!)
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To: Joe Brower
It's a good start but I fear it could just be pro-gun resume fodder for those seeking re-election. We need sweeping arms control reversal.
24 posted on 11/21/2011 1:09:34 PM PST by Durus (You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. Ayn Rand)
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To: marktwain

Thank the Lord that I got a matched pair of Benelli M1 Super 90s back when I could afford them. Superb fighting shotguns, and decent game-getters when you need it.


25 posted on 11/21/2011 1:14:56 PM PST by Noumenon (The only 'NO' a liberal understands is the one that arrives at muzzle velocity.)
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To: marktwain; mylife; Drumbo

Great news for those of us who are fans of the semi-auto imports!

But what about domestic manufacture or import of HDW and PDW configuration shotguns - (particularly the pistol grip-no buttstock) Mossie 500 or Remmie 870? I thought the ATF was turning its sights against those as well.


26 posted on 11/21/2011 2:35:16 PM PST by Titan Magroyne (What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.)
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To: SENTINEL

>> the safety is on the top of the rear receiver like a standard mossberg, and you cannot reach it while holding the pistol grip

Didn’t think of that! Thanks for pointing it out.


27 posted on 11/21/2011 2:37:54 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: SENTINEL

>> got a Benelli M4

That’s a pretty shotgun. In stock at Bud’s! But 4 + 1? Seems like a low capacity for an auto.


28 posted on 11/21/2011 2:44:44 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: Nervous Tick
Because it's imported, it was limited capacity in stock configuration. You can swap out the mag tube for higher capacity as long as you use US made components to maintain 922R complaince.

These guys have all the details and top notch parts.

http://www.shop.carriercomp.com/category.sc?categoryId=4

The M4 is awesome. With this tube it holds 7 +1 in the chamber +1 in the "Ghost" position, under the bolt....so 9 2-3/4" shells !

29 posted on 11/21/2011 2:50:46 PM PST by SENTINEL (Romney is to Conservatism what Mormonism is to Christianity.)
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To: Enterprise

>> I’m thinking down the road for something my wife could fire without dislocating her shoulder.

Being a manly man ‘n all, I really *enjoy* the shoulder separation I get from firing double-aught buck from my pump-action Mossy. And the bruise looks great under my wifebeater tee shirt.

But I, too, am lusting after an auto-shotgun... you know, just out of consideration for Mrs. Tick. Not that I can’t handle it.

That’s the same reason I bought us... er, I mean *her*... a Browning Automatic Rifle. :-)


30 posted on 11/21/2011 2:52:40 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: Nervous Tick

LOL - me too. It’s out of consideration for my wife that I am considering buying a shotgun that’s not a shoulder buster.


31 posted on 11/21/2011 2:55:52 PM PST by Enterprise ("Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire)
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To: SENTINEL

Thanks for the info, SENTINEL! I really appreciate it.

With the mag extension we’re looking at close to 2 kilobucks... no doubt worth it though.

FRegards


32 posted on 11/21/2011 2:58:25 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: Nervous Tick
There are some Benelli factory collapsible stocks still around for sale as well. With a few more import for US parts swaps, you can install one on your shotgun and remain 922R complaint. In the collapsed position it makes a solid, fast cheekweld at the perfect height for a C-more red dot sight, which I highly recommend.


33 posted on 11/21/2011 3:00:15 PM PST by SENTINEL (Romney is to Conservatism what Mormonism is to Christianity.)
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To: Noumenon

I had a Benelli M1 super 90. It was a beautiful gun and sort of wicked looking.

The problem was it kicked harder than any gun I have ever owned. It kicked harder than my Siamese Mauser in 45-70. It kicked harder than my Grandpa’s old 12 gauge lightweight single barrel. It kicked harder than my Father’s Browning auto 5.

I finally sold it, just too much recoil. I really wish I had a Remington 11-87 with the police/military long mag short barrel, and pistol grip. I have arthritis pretty bad and the pistol grip is much easier for me to handle than the standard stock.


34 posted on 11/21/2011 3:05:21 PM PST by yarddog
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To: SENTINEL

>> There are some Benelli factory collapsible stocks still around for sale as well. With a few more import for US parts swaps...

... at some point it’s OK to stop spending money on your shotgun... right? :-)

What’s the finish on that one? The color in unusual.

Thanks for the tip on the sight.


35 posted on 11/21/2011 3:08:43 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: Nervous Tick
That's not my m4, just some pic I found, it's black just funny lighting.....Don't put away your debit card just yet, you didn't even see the hot new thing in shotgun reloading tech !

These are called shotgun cards. They attach via an aerospace quality die-cut adhesive velcro to the side of your scattergun. When the card is empty you tear it off, pull another loaded one out of any standard ar-15 pouch and slap it up onto the velcro. They work great, and allow for dual weapons carriage with a single set of webgear.


36 posted on 11/21/2011 3:21:20 PM PST by SENTINEL (Romney is to Conservatism what Mormonism is to Christianity.)
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To: SENTINEL

Wow! That would set you up for a major firefight.

Besides blowing stuff up for fun and practice, I figure my most likely real-life “use case” would involve me half-awake in my underwear minus my glasses. I prolly wouldn’t have my ammo-vest on. :-)

I found a couple pages on dot sights, including a thorough technical explanation, if anyone cares...

http://home.comcast.net/~rob.novak/Shooting/red_dot_sights.html
http://www.bullseyepistol.com/dotsight.htm


37 posted on 11/21/2011 3:42:20 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: Enterprise

The Saiga is on my list too. This is great news.


38 posted on 11/21/2011 4:09:36 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Let's apply the "reasonable man" standard to gun laws. How many would stand?)
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To: Nervous Tick
The thing I like the most about the dot sights is the lightning fast both eyes open target aquisition.

Aimpoint, Eotech and C-More all make quality products and have all been battle proven. C-more is the best bang for the buck at $300 or so IMHO, but you have to get what YOU like....Just like there is no "best" movie, there is no "best" setup, once basic reliability is proven.

39 posted on 11/21/2011 4:23:33 PM PST by SENTINEL (Romney is to Conservatism what Mormonism is to Christianity.)
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To: SENTINEL

Benellis are great, I shoot a Super Sport for Sporting Clays and it is a very reliable gun, plus with 1 ounce loads you can shoot 200-300 rounds a day without getting flinchy.


40 posted on 11/21/2011 4:26:20 PM PST by Tijeras_Slim
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To: Tijeras_Slim

My favorite pump gun of all time, and I’ve had most of them, is the Benelli Nova Pump Tactical. Factory Ghost ring sights, 3 1/2” chamber, and only about ~$300.


41 posted on 11/21/2011 4:48:49 PM PST by SENTINEL (Romney is to Conservatism what Mormonism is to Christianity.)
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To: SENTINEL

Other than the Super Sport, I am pretty old school. Pumps are Winchester 12’s (16 gauge a favorite) and 42’s. Lot’s of Browning A5’s (once again 16’s), and a bunch of SXS. A K80 for skeet. I guess the weirdest one I have is a Browning Recoilless Trap.


42 posted on 11/21/2011 4:52:29 PM PST by Tijeras_Slim
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To: Titan Magroyne

This is good news.
I need a saiga 20.


43 posted on 11/21/2011 4:53:24 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Tijeras_Slim

I have never fired a Super Sport and probably never will. I can’t even begin to afford one now, in fact I can’t even afford a Turkish made auto with a similar action.

I understand they finally got the recoil licked with all the recoil reduction features whatever they are. On the negative side, the Super Sport is the only Benelli I have ever heard of having reliability problems, especially with light loads.


44 posted on 11/21/2011 5:06:02 PM PST by yarddog
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To: Nervous Tick
SBR Saiga 12 with an MD Arms 20 round drum magazine.

sbr saiga

Accept no substitute!
45 posted on 11/21/2011 5:19:40 PM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: yarddog

I put a 6 oz Briley forend weight on it, and it will cycle 7/8th ounce loads if they’re running 1250 FPS. My 1 oz loads are 1180 FPS.

It’s very reliable. I got it used, and it was dirty. Just for grins I decided to keep shooting it until it choked. I ran 700 rounds through it until it balked on a reload with
“love handles” just above the brass on a very cold day.


46 posted on 11/21/2011 6:40:32 PM PST by Tijeras_Slim
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To: yarddog

I put a 6 oz Briley forend weight on it, and it will cycle 7/8th ounce loads if they’re running 1250 FPS. My 1 oz loads are 1180 FPS.

It’s very reliable. I got it used, and it was dirty. Just for grins I decided to keep shooting it until it choked. I ran 700 rounds through it until it balked on a reload with
“love handles” just above the brass on a very cold day.


47 posted on 11/21/2011 6:41:32 PM PST by Tijeras_Slim
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To: marktwain

Great news. Now we just need to get the import authorization passed for all of those M1 Garands, Carbines, and M1911A1’s from South Korea.


48 posted on 11/21/2011 6:48:42 PM PST by Stonewall Jackson (Democrats: "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.")
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To: Tijeras_Slim

I taught skeet at the University of Southern Mississippi for two years. I had a Ruger Red Label in skeet and skeet but for the most part I shot a Beretta, I can’t remember the number but it might have been a 303. Anyway it was choked skeet. I had an assitant who was Mississippi state champion and a very slightly better shot than me

He used a Browning Citori He once offered me a near mint Citori his friend needed to sell for $500. I was so broke I could not buy it.

The school paid for all the skeet and shells that I shot but the students had to pay for thei shells They could use their own gun or the school’s gun which were 20 gauge Remington 870.

I would buy the Winchester double X skeet loads but would use my odds and ends of shells I had accumulated over the years. I ended up with several cases of the super X skeet loads.

My assistant never had a defect of any kind with the Citori. I never had a defect in any was with the beretta. I actully don’t reccall a student having a misfire when they were using their own Remintons Brownings etc.

We had some very old and well used 870 pumps in 20 gauge for the students who didn’t have their own gun. All the 870s except one always performed perfectly. There was a single 870 which had begun to sometimes let a shell slip by the carrier stop. We gave them a do over.

That was a lot of shooting over two years at several classes a day and all those guns held up gread except that one 870 and made a rough guess that it had gone over a hundred thousand rounds.


49 posted on 11/21/2011 7:22:00 PM PST by yarddog
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To: Joe Brower

Saiga 12 back on my shopping list...


50 posted on 11/21/2011 8:11:49 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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