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Beechcraft Bailout Gone Bust
Second Line of Defense ^ | 11/20/2011 | Ed Timperlake

Posted on 11/21/2011 10:46:00 AM PST by DefenseMatters

End-Game for USAF Competition?

By Ed Timperlake

November 20, 2011

11/20/2011 The headline in the Wichita Eagle says it all—“Hawker Beechcraft loses out on big Air Force contract”

Reporter Dan Voorhis writing for The Wichita Eagle, (November 18 2011) points out that;

“Hawker Beechcraft Corp. says the Air Force has informed the company that it lost out on a military contract worth nearly $1billion.

“The company had hoped to win the Light Air Support contract with its AT-6, an armed version of its T-6 trainer. But on Friday, the company said it received a letter from the Air Force saying the AT-6 had been excluded from the competition. The company wants an explanation.”

http://www.kansas.com/2011/11/18/2108059/hawker-beechcraft-said-air-force.html

To clarify using Occam’s Razor that the simplest explanation may be the best before an orchestrated campaign to attack the integrity, professionalism, judgment and rational for a very wise USAF decision a simple point can be made. The opening principle of the request for entry into the selection process has the below first sentence in the RFP and everything that occurred may have followed:

“BACKGROUND AND REQUIREMENTS: LAS aircraft must be a non-developmental item (NDI) that is production-ready. No development or testing funds are available. ” Introduction of LAS Solicitation FA8615-10-R-6088”

In response to the Air Force decision Hawker Beechcraft immediately issued what may go down in history as one of the worst press statement ever made. Not only does the press release demonstrate why they were eliminated HBC may also find out, by their own words that any legal recourse for any protests are staggeringly bad.

“We have been notified by the United States Air Force in a letter that the Beechcraft AT-6 has been excluded from the Light Air Support competition. The letter provides no basis for the exclusion. We are both confounded and troubled by this decision, as we have been working closely with the Air Force for two years and, with our partners, have invested more than $100 million preparing to meet the Air Force’s specific requirements. Additionally, the AT-6 has been evaluated and proven capable through a multi-year, Congressionally-funded demonstration program led by the Air National Guard. We have followed the Air Force’s guidance closely and, based on what we have seen, we continue to believe that we submitted the most capable, affordable and sustainable light attack aircraft as measured against the Air Force’s Request for Proposal. We have requested a debriefing from the Air Force and will be exploring all potential options in the coming days.”

By their own words “We have followed the Air Force’s guidance closely….” HBC admits that they are to be measured by the terms of the RFP— see the initial RFP opening requirement stated above-they were not ready to compete and the AF called them on that fundamental point as the public evidence evolved to make that very clear.

Additionally, in making their defense and initiating a demand for an explanation they publicly state that they have spent $100 Mil in their continuing and ongoing effort to develop the AT-6 to compete in a non-developmental contest!—Priceless. Physician heal thyself!

In a request to Embraer on how much they invested in preparing the Super Tucano for the flight testing part of the competition it was their estimate that it was under $50,000 to fly the aircraft to the test site, fly the test missions and then return to Brazil. Since RFP paper work is constant among competitors the accurate ratio of $100 Million to $50,000 says it all. Additionally, the $100 mil was US taxpayer dollars, and the $50,000 was at the Super Tucano’s teams risk funding.

The AF evaluation team proves that “The Right Stuff” can be shown in all dimensions of creating a modern airpower combat team. From an office at Wright-Pat to eventually the combat skies over Afghanistan our war effort to help the that country and quickly leave just took a turn for the good.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: elite; embraer; hawkerbeechcraft; iran; socialism; subsidies; usaf; waaaaaaa
Goldman Sachs owns Hawker Beechcraft and they both got caught trying to steal taxpayer dollars with the AT-6 scam. There really is no AT-6 - only a half-working prototype - and the "jobs" they talked about creating were a fantasy. The USAF killed the Beechcraft Bailout and we ought to be glad about that. As SLD points out in the article -- the only plane capabale of providing srvice and value to the American Taxpayer is still alive in this competiiton -- the A-29 Super Tucano
1 posted on 11/21/2011 10:46:00 AM PST by DefenseMatters
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To: DefenseMatters

The attempt at legal analysis in the article is pathetic.


2 posted on 11/21/2011 10:49:14 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: DefenseMatters

The a-29 is made by Embraer, a Brazilian company. Looks like another George Soros decision.


3 posted on 11/21/2011 10:51:33 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

The A-29 Super Tucano will be proudly built in Jacksonville, Fla., with parts and services from more than 70 U.S. companies in 21 states.

This contract will immediately support the creation of at least 50 new jobs on the final assembly line in Jacksonville, and will help support at least 1,200 more jobs across America. Some 60 U.S. companies will supply components that will go into the Super T or services related to the LAS contract.

Sierra Nevada Corporation (SNC), the contract lead, currently employs more than 2,100 people at 29 locations in 15 states. Embraer North America has been in the United States for over 30 years, and employs 800 people in Florida; Arizona; Tennessee; Minnesota; and Connecticut. The company recently opened a new executive jet production facility in Melbourne that is creating 200 new jobs. The Jacksonville facility will augment this ongoing U.S. production.

Embraer is the world’s third-largest aircraft manufacturer and sources a majority of its component parts – across all business lines – from the United States. More than 7,000 U.S. jobs are supported as a result of Embraer’s component purchases

http://builtforthemission.com/american-made.php


4 posted on 11/21/2011 11:19:27 AM PST by frithguild (Restricting access to capital - Liberalism: The sharpest tool of big business, banks, etc.)
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To: frithguild

It would appear the best aircraft won... as it should be, our airmen deserve nothing but the best, wherever it comes from


5 posted on 11/21/2011 11:21:15 AM PST by joe fonebone (Project Gunwalker, this will make watergate look like the warm up band......)
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To: frithguild
Spoken like a public relations person for this Brazilian company.
6 posted on 11/21/2011 11:30:50 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: joe fonebone

These are prop planes which we are apparently building and then plan to give away to countries such as Afghanistan.


7 posted on 11/21/2011 11:37:04 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: DefenseMatters

Almost sounds as if this “Brazilian” company is really an American company that has it HQ in a place that has lower taxes.


8 posted on 11/21/2011 11:42:04 AM PST by glaseatr (Father of a Marine, Uncle of SGT Adam Estep. A Co. 2/5 Cav. KIA Thurs April 29, 2004 Baghdad Iraq)
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To: glaseatr

Almost, unless you consider the Board of Directors does not have one American on it.

No its a foreign owned and operated company which figured out the Americans would outsource military defense contracts.


9 posted on 11/21/2011 11:48:10 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

yes they are prop jobs.......but they are to be used in counter insurgency roles...they get way better fuel consuption than a jet, carry a crapload of ordinance, and have better loiter time... a tool that is needed in our arsenel... the ground pounders that have had these at their disposal love them, they are a great ground support tool ( to be used after air superiority is established) I do not believe they are slated to be “given away”


10 posted on 11/21/2011 11:52:30 AM PST by joe fonebone (Project Gunwalker, this will make watergate look like the warm up band......)
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To: driftdiver
The a-29 is made by Embraer, a Brazilian company. Looks like another George Soros decision.

Spoken like Kip Chalmers

11 posted on 11/21/2011 11:53:53 AM PST by frithguild (Restricting access to capital - Liberalism: The sharpest tool of big business, banks, etc.)
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To: frithguild

Perhaps you think outsourcing Americas defense infrastructure to semi-friendly countries is a good thing, I don’t.

Perhaps you aren’t motivated by a strong America though.


12 posted on 11/21/2011 11:58:05 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: DefenseMatters

Buy a Mooney!
http://www.mooney.com/index.php

;o)


13 posted on 11/21/2011 12:09:21 PM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: driftdiver
Perhaps you think outsourcing Americas defense infrastructure to semi-friendly countries is a good thing, I don’t.

I believe giving our forces the available tools they ask for, without nonsense preventing it.

14 posted on 11/21/2011 12:10:06 PM PST by frithguild (Restricting access to capital - Liberalism: The sharpest tool of big business, banks, etc.)
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To: frithguild

“I believe giving our forces the available tools they ask for, without nonsense preventing it.”

Nonsense? Procurement of items “vital to our nations defense” from foreign sources is nonsense?

Spoken like a true Benedict Arnold.


15 posted on 11/21/2011 12:12:23 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
Nonsense? Procurement of items “vital to our nations defense” from foreign sources is nonsense?

So we can buy 100 planes that don't exist from the Canadian owned company with a presence in Kansas or 100 that do exist from the Brazilian owned company with a presence in Fla.

Actually, if I follow you, this plane should be bought from a 100% US owned company - so I guess we should buy no planes at all.

So yes, nonsense is all that you have stated.

16 posted on 11/21/2011 12:42:20 PM PST by frithguild (Restricting access to capital - Liberalism: The sharpest tool of big business, banks, etc.)
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To: frithguild

strawmans are easy

but hey don’t let me interrupt you’re celebration of a foreign owned and operated company getting our defense contracts.


17 posted on 11/21/2011 12:47:03 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
strawmans are easy

You would know.

18 posted on 11/21/2011 12:48:40 PM PST by frithguild (Restricting access to capital - Liberalism: The sharpest tool of big business, banks, etc.)
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To: frithguild

Stating the FACT that this company is foreign owned and operated is not a strawman.

So either you work for this company or you are from Brazil, which one is it?


19 posted on 11/21/2011 12:51:28 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: frithguild; driftdiver

Whoever they buy from it is money flushed down the toilet. With a trillion dollar budget deficit we are buying the planes for Karzai’s Afghanistan, who said recently that in a war between Pakistan and the US, Afghanistan would side with the Pakistan (who’s ISI supported the Taliban that hosted Al Qaeda). Afghanistan within it’s present borders was created to serve as a buffer state between British India and Czarist Russia, an obsolete function. We would better served by allowing Afghanistan to breakup along racial and linguistic lines, the breakup would be bloody and messy, but it would not be our blood. Fighting over the merits of either plane is just arguing over the most efficient way of doing something that it makes no sense to do.


20 posted on 11/21/2011 12:54:09 PM PST by fallujah-nuker (Pat Buchanan, kryptonite to RINO's)
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To: fallujah-nuker

go back and look at one of my first posts, where I said we were probably going to give the dang things away


21 posted on 11/21/2011 12:57:31 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
So either you work for this company or you are from Brazil, which one is it?

Now you demand answers to questions about nonsense. Are you Wesley Mouch?

22 posted on 11/21/2011 1:04:50 PM PST by frithguild (Restricting access to capital - Liberalism: The sharpest tool of big business, banks, etc.)
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To: driftdiver

Thanks, looks like you are correct. Everything I’ve heard about this deal sounds like it is a foreign aid program. I’d rather we go back to building a large bomber fleet, like we had in the fifties. Our 9-11 memorial should have been wasteland where Kandahar once stood.


23 posted on 11/21/2011 1:04:57 PM PST by fallujah-nuker (Pat Buchanan, kryptonite to RINO's)
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To: fallujah-nuker

And yet supposed Freepers celebrate the waste and the outsourcing of the contracts.

Don’t forget Mecca and a few other choice targets.


24 posted on 11/21/2011 1:11:08 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
And yet supposed Freepers celebrate the waste and the outsourcing of the contracts.

Brazil is run by a socialist, and is very friendly with Iran. We already had a case where where a Swiss company cut off the supply of IC's used in the JDAM, while we were at war with Iraq. Becoming dependent upon foreign nations for energy shows what we can look forward to if we outsource the means of providing for our national defense. Remember the gas lines of 1973 and 1979? Wichita would be a great place to build a new bomber, they did a great job on the B-47 and B-52.
25 posted on 11/21/2011 1:19:03 PM PST by fallujah-nuker (Pat Buchanan, kryptonite to RINO's)
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To: DefenseMatters
...the only plane capabale of providing srvice and value to the American Taxpayer is still alive in this competiiton — the A-29 Super Tucano.”

I haven't seen any comparative cost or performance data. But wonder how purchasing foreign is a plus for Americans. Are we talking cheap like Chinese toys??

26 posted on 11/21/2011 3:00:10 PM PST by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-Qaeda" and its allies.)
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To: DefenseMatters
Are there just these two companies in contention??

If so then shame on us. American industry has been known for their ability to quickly tool up for any challenge.

p.s. I soloed in a T-6 in 1949.

27 posted on 11/21/2011 3:14:11 PM PST by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-Qaeda" and its allies.)
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If the article were true why would the USAF have let HBC continue on with the program up until weeks before the contract award.

If their aircraft did not meet the basic requirements ‘as-is’ like the article says above someone at the pentagon should have said something.

Otherwise this was all a waste of not only their internal funds but also taxpayer dollars!

The simple truth is that HBC has coordinated with the USAF for years! (There has been involvement with the Iraqi Air Force since 2008!) Why would the USAF have strung them along up till now only to see them get the boot? It doesn’t make any sense.

Some of you seem hung up on how good the Tucano is....but have you seen the advanced systems going into the AT-6.

The Tucano may be proven in combat but does that necessarily mean it’s better? Would you also say the F-22 is a terrible airplane because it hasn’t seen real combat yet?


28 posted on 11/22/2011 3:58:31 PM PST by djanes
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To: DefenseMatters

Did Air Tractor ever have a shot at this? I thought they were building some military models suitable for counter-insurgency.


29 posted on 11/22/2011 4:07:32 PM PST by tacticalogic
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To: djanes

“The simple truth is that HBC has coordinated with the USAF for years!”

The USAF wanted a plane that was production-ready. The AT-6 seemingly is still not ready.


30 posted on 11/22/2011 4:14:25 PM PST by PLMerite (Shut the Beyotch Down! Burn, baby, burn!)
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To: tacticalogic

“Did Air Tractor ever have a shot at this?”

Apparently they had about the same shot at this as the AT-6. (sarcasm)

The AT-6 is ready to go right now. AT-1 and AT-2 were the test aircraft and the third off the line is representative of production. So by the time this contract is awarded, yes, it is an ‘off-the-shelf’ peice of equipment.


31 posted on 11/23/2011 6:39:20 AM PST by djanes
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