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Navy frigate sent to Libya with four missiles (UK)
The Daily Telegraph ^ | 21 Nov 2011

Posted on 11/22/2011 3:31:41 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki

Navy frigate sent to Libya with four missiles

A Royal Navy frigate was sent to the Libyan war zone armed with as few as four missiles, it has been disclosed.

Royal Navy officers said HMS Westminster was “dangerously under-defended” when it was called on to patrol close to the Libyan port city of Benghazi in March.

The warship can carry 32 Seawolf and eight Harpoon missiles but it is understood that military cutbacks left the Westminster and its crew of 190 with only a fraction of that capability.

As Seawolf missiles — which are used to intercept incoming missiles — are fired in pairs, sources said the Westminster had just two rounds to defend against missile attacks from Col Muammar Gaddafi’s forces.

In another recent admission, the Royal Navy said it was unable to spare a warship to guard British waters for the whole of October after last year’s defence cuts.

Rear Admiral Chris Parry, a retired officer, said it was unbelievable that the Westminster had so few missiles on board and said ships in the Falklands and the Gulf wars were equipped to full capacity. He added: “This is yet another example of the incoherence of last year’s Strategic Defence and Security Review. What if the Government’s bluff had been called? What would the Ministry of Defence be saying if the Westminster had been hit by something? They took a big risk.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: hmswestminster; libya; royalnavy; uk; ungland

HMS Westminster Photo: Chris Ison/PA

1 posted on 11/22/2011 3:31:43 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

and some very old fish and chips..


2 posted on 11/22/2011 3:48:51 AM PST by aces
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Well that was pretty reckless of the Admiralty to allow that ship to sail into harms way if they had no intention of supplying it further at sea.


3 posted on 11/22/2011 3:48:51 AM PST by exPBRrat
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Don’t they know the Navy way???.... IT DOESN’T MATTER IF IT WORKS - JUST AS LONG AS IT SHINES!!


4 posted on 11/22/2011 3:53:42 AM PST by missnry (The truth will set you free ... and drive liberals Crazy!)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

This is what Obama wants for us.

He has said flat out that he will make sure the cuts promised if the Super Committee failed are carried out.

Obama could care less about our military,except for Air Force One, he loves that.


5 posted on 11/22/2011 3:55:55 AM PST by Venturer
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To: Venturer
"Obama could care less about our military,except for Air Force One, he loves that."

Cut that first... Give the slug an old Piper Cub.

6 posted on 11/22/2011 3:59:49 AM PST by Average Al (Forbidden fruit leads to many jams.)
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To: exPBRrat

Sorta like the days we had with the peanut picker sitting in the oval office with his thumb up his butt while Iran held our embassy staff hostage and Jimmah kept cutting the military budget.


7 posted on 11/22/2011 4:02:37 AM PST by BTCM (Death and destruction is the only treaty Muslims comprehend.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Sure hope the Brit’s didn’t tell the enemy...


8 posted on 11/22/2011 4:07:22 AM PST by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion. 01-20-2013: Change we can look forward to.)
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To: BTCM
Sorta like the days we had with the peanut picker sitting in the oval office with his thumb up his butt while Iran held our embassy staff hostage and Jimmah kept cutting the military budget.

And let's not forgot the fine job Stansfield Turner did in gutting the CIA at the command of Cahter. Both, POS, may they burn in hell.

9 posted on 11/22/2011 4:08:20 AM PST by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

When my father joined the New York National Guard in 1940, they drilled with wooden rifles. With Obama’s sense of tradition, maybe we’ll be back to wooden rifles in 2012.


10 posted on 11/22/2011 4:12:07 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Ceterum autem censeo, Obama delenda est.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
Rule Britannia...
11 posted on 11/22/2011 4:15:39 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
Coming soon to the US Navy. FUbo and every slimy dim that ever breathed! I will make exception for those that have left satan's party and no longer tolerate their anti American communism.

LLS

12 posted on 11/22/2011 4:19:04 AM PST by LibLieSlayer ("Americans are hungry to feel once again a sense of mission and greatness." Ronaldo Magnus)
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To: Covenantor

Both will burn in hell and worse. That’s my opinion and I am sticking to it.

LLS


13 posted on 11/22/2011 4:20:52 AM PST by LibLieSlayer ("Americans are hungry to feel once again a sense of mission and greatness." Ronaldo Magnus)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

What do you call a frigate without weapons ?

A target


14 posted on 11/22/2011 4:21:53 AM PST by maine yankee (I got my Governor at 'Marden's')
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To: sukhoi-30mki
"The Government needs to realise there’s only a limited amount you can cut the tail before the teeth fall out."

Is this a normal British saying that is getting lost in the translation?
15 posted on 11/22/2011 4:28:30 AM PST by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Venturer
"Obama could care less about our military,except for Air Force One, he loves that."

One more thing, he doesn't want to give up all those base golf courses either. He's making sure that we pour money into the base golf course part of the defense budget.
16 posted on 11/22/2011 4:30:23 AM PST by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: sukhoi-30mki

That’s ok. The money has been more well spent provided free housing, welfare, and food to the millions of muslim missionaries they invited in who want Sharia Law.


17 posted on 11/22/2011 4:52:11 AM PST by Proud_USA_Republican ("The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.")
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Sounds like the liberals in the UK are doing the same things as the liberals here. The US Navy is currently at pre-1915 levels and shrinking. Thank the jerk in charge, Obama, for this.


18 posted on 11/22/2011 5:04:11 AM PST by BuffaloJack (Defeat Obama. End Obama's War On Freedom.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
Ungland...
19 posted on 11/22/2011 5:08:04 AM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Proud_USA_Republican
'the Westminster had just two rounds to defend against missile attacks from Col Muammar Gaddafi’s forces.'

Another casualty of the UK's welfare state

20 posted on 11/22/2011 5:08:06 AM PST by STD (Cut Taxes, Cut Spending Stupid!)
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To: Venturer

The cuts start in 2013. There is a certain way to make sure that Hussein has nothing to do with the budget after the election.


21 posted on 11/22/2011 5:27:50 AM PST by Former Proud Canadian (Obamanomics-We don't need your stinking tar sands oil, or the jobs that go with it.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

"Left hand down a bit, Chief Pertwee."

22 posted on 11/22/2011 5:35:03 AM PST by Jonah Hex ("To Serve Manatee" is a cookbook!)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Yeah, but they have plenty of money to waste on all of their social welfare ratholes.


23 posted on 11/22/2011 5:43:25 AM PST by Redleg Duke ("Madison, Wisconsin is 30 square miles surrounded by reality.", L. S. Dryfus)
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To: sukhoi-30mki; archy

It’s sad how far Great Britain has sunk.

This is what happens in a welfare state. Buying votes from the proles trumps having an effective military. Britain is now an empty husk.


24 posted on 11/22/2011 6:03:54 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee
This is what happens in a welfare state. Buying votes from the proles trumps having an effective military. Britain is now an empty husk.

And our congress just abbrogated their authority and responsibility to allow Obama to turn our nation 's military hollow.

25 posted on 11/22/2011 6:11:32 AM PST by TADSLOS (Lexicon Genetics- Rick Perry's Solyndra Moment)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
In another recent admission, the Royal Navy said it was unable to spare a warship to guard British waters for the whole of October after last year’s defence cuts.

This seems like a century ago.


26 posted on 11/22/2011 6:17:48 AM PST by Oztrich Boy (New gets old. Steampunk is always cool)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

The Brits can be a stingy lot. I studied there, I know them.


27 posted on 11/22/2011 6:27:19 AM PST by BufalloSoldier
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To: Oztrich Boy
"Rule Britannia, we use to rule the waves........
28 posted on 11/22/2011 6:36:56 AM PST by Robe (Rome did not create a great empire by talking, they did it by killing all those who opposed them)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Whomever deployed this vessel should be court marshaled if they are in the military. If it was a civilian decision they should be executed in public.
All senior military officers who didn’t refuse to deploy the vessel should be publicly exposed and then court marshaled.
Sailing in harms way is one thing. Purposely being placed in harms way as soon as the colors are shifted is a totally different matter.


29 posted on 11/22/2011 6:40:55 AM PST by em2vn
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To: BufalloSoldier

Thats not a bad thing sometimes, though.

p.s where did you live and study?. What did you like and dislike about the UK, and be brutally honest.


30 posted on 11/22/2011 6:49:13 AM PST by the scotsman (I)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

And the enemidia knows this because? Who was stupid enough to reveal this bit of intelligence and put a ship and crew at risk? Sounds like treason!


31 posted on 11/22/2011 6:59:47 AM PST by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: JimRed
If you think the Royal Navy was being cheap in arming its frigate to enter a war zone, consider the USN and the Mk 48 torpedo.

For those not up on torpedoes, the Mk 48 is the primary anti-sub and anti-ship weapon of the American Navy's SSN (fast attack) and SSBN (ballistic missile) subs. About the size of a WW2 “dumb” (unguided) torpedo, the Mk 48 relies on wire guidance and active sonar to find and kill its prey. One shot is usually enough — look up the sinking of the destroyer escort HMAS TORRENS (DE-53) by the submarine HMAS FARNCOMB (SSG-74) in 1999 on YouTube ir Wikipedia.

In the 1990s, had the USN gone to war, its submarine fleet had one complete load-out of Mk 48s for all its SSN/SSBN boats. When they came back to reload their torpedo racks (those that came back), there were only enough Mk 48 reloads to fill HALF the racks on the boats. After the first reload, there were no more Mk 48s in the inventory for a second reload. Since then, nothing has improved for the Mk 48 situation except things have gotten worse.

32 posted on 11/22/2011 8:44:08 AM PST by MasterGunner01 (To err is human; to forgive is not our policy. -- SEAL Team SIX)
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To: MasterGunner01
In the 1990s, had the USN gone to war, its submarine fleet had one complete load-out of Mk 48s for all its SSN/SSBN boats. When they came back to reload their torpedo racks (those that came back), there were only enough Mk 48 reloads to fill HALF the racks on the boats. After the first reload, there were no more Mk 48s in the inventory for a second reload. Since then, nothing has improved for the Mk 48 situation except things have gotten worse.

True, but the US wasn't preparing for a long-term slug-fest/war of attrition. There was enough firepower in the Navy to sink EVERY potential target multiple times over. And do it very quickly. That overall capability (quality over quantity for the entire military) was revealed when we dropped Iraq's Soviet-supplied offensive and defensive capabilities in a single night in mid-January 1991.

Mk.48s are close-in/knife-fight weapons. Very, very good ones, of course, but back in the 1990s it was understood that the SSN force would significantly attrit enemy surface ships with TSAM and Harpoons, and enemy subs with SUBROC (ok, that's only through the late 1980s) before having to turn to the Mk.48s. It was also understood that P-3s would significant attrit enemy subs before the SSN/SSBN force had to engage.

The fact is that a late-1980s/early-90s general conflict with the USSR would have seen their conventional military capability annihilated, probably with them then resorting to nukes, long before the SSN force finished its first war patrols and needed a reload.
33 posted on 11/22/2011 9:00:40 AM PST by tanknetter
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To: Former Proud Canadian

Quite Correct. But if he is re-elected , hold on to your hat -—he will run wild.


34 posted on 11/22/2011 2:17:26 PM PST by Venturer
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To: Travis McGee
It’s sad how far Great Britain has sunk.

This is what happens in a welfare state. Buying votes from the proles trumps having an effective military. Britain is now an empty husk.

My latest addition to our crew in our little corner of the Rawles Redoubt is a former Royal Marine sergeant, about as unhappy with his initial exposure to urban USA [Indianapolis] as he was to what has happened to his native Blackpool.

His parents have passed on, and he had not the slightest interest in bnurdening his life with one of the typical dimwit lasses who's grown up under the Labour Party's governing policies and educational system. Accordingly, he;s looking forward to meeting a few nice Wyoming girls, not to mention one oer two who may not be all that nice.

But when I told him we had a couple of relocated Gurkhas in the area, he positively brightened. And when I told him he had the use of my L1A1 SLR until he could pick up a decent gat of his own, he was quite happy, and inquired a bit about bolt guns as well. Oh yes, I think he's going to fit in just fine.

Their loss is our gain. Enoch was right.

35 posted on 11/22/2011 5:49:17 PM PST by archy (I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous!)
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To: Venturer

If Hussein is re-elected, you might not have a country left in 4 years.


36 posted on 11/22/2011 7:14:58 PM PST by Former Proud Canadian (Obamanomics-We don't need your stinking tar sands oil, or the jobs that go with it.)
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To: Oztrich Boy

Quite imposing. Quite amazing. Wow.


37 posted on 11/23/2011 12:49:16 AM PST by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: Former Proud Canadian

Don’t think that thought hasn’t crossed my mind.


38 posted on 11/23/2011 4:20:37 AM PST by Venturer
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To: Venturer

It’s kind of scary, and I don’t even live in the US.


39 posted on 11/23/2011 4:46:36 AM PST by Former Proud Canadian (Obamanomics-We don't need your stinking tar sands oil, or the jobs that go with it.)
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To: Former Proud Canadian

When we go down the world goes down son, I do not mean to be arrogant in saying that, but the United States is the greatest defender of freedoms in this world, and in any vacuum there is always something trying to fill the void.

That something today is Islam, or Communism.


40 posted on 11/23/2011 4:53:11 AM PST by Venturer
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To: Venturer

Yeah, I know.


41 posted on 11/23/2011 5:20:27 AM PST by Former Proud Canadian (Obamanomics-We don't need your stinking tar sands oil, or the jobs that go with it.)
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To: archy

How old is your Brit Sgt? I have a Brit Sgt in my next novel, maybe he can vet it.

He is going to be pretty happy when he finds out there are places where he can shoot 1,000 yards in 360* in Wyoming. Not too much of that in Blighty.


42 posted on 11/23/2011 5:33:20 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden

Not exactly...its more normal military saying. In military parlance the “teeth” are the bits that actually do the fighting. The “tail” are the various support elements - supply ships, techies, engineers, armorers and so on who keep it all working. Its tempting for politicians to cut back on the latter, because after all, they dont directly do any fighting, but as the saying has it, if you cut the tail, eventually the teeth will fall out. Nice little analogy I thought.


43 posted on 11/24/2011 7:06:43 AM PST by Vanders9
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Texas Ranger sent to riot with four bullets and no gun.


44 posted on 11/24/2011 7:08:10 AM PST by bvw
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To: spetznaz; Oztrich Boy
That presumably is a picture of the Grand Fleet pre-Jutland?

If so, that would be imposing. Twenty-eight (yes..twenty eight) battleships plus nine battlecruisers, eight older armoured cruisers, one hundred and six light cruisers and destroyers.

And that's just the main fleet.

45 posted on 11/24/2011 7:11:56 AM PST by Vanders9
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To: Vanders9

Thank you for that explanation. It makes complete sense now. I would say that Britian has not only been cutting the tail, but they’ve been pulling out those teeth also!! It’s a shame that a once mighty and great Navy has come to this. And it should be a lesson to what can happen to us in America if we don’t get our debt under control.


46 posted on 11/24/2011 7:53:07 AM PST by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Oztrich Boy
"This seems like a century ago."

Look at that picture closely. Notice the smoke coming from the ships. Those are coal fired battleships. There's a good chance that picture was taken a century ago!!
47 posted on 11/24/2011 7:56:15 AM PST by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
Look at that picture closely. .... There's a good chance that picture was taken a century ago!!

Well, yes, That was the point.

But if I am going to look at the picture closely. Ship on extreme right: no prominent secondary battery, forecastle break level with two closely spaced equal sized funnels, immediately behind a pole foremast, no mainmast. King George V class, early in war (at latest 1915-16).

Left column do appear to have maindeck 6" battery, superstructure to funneltop height, small fire control top. Either Iron Duke or Queen Elizabeth class. Again early, but post mid-1914.

48 posted on 11/24/2011 9:53:15 AM PST by Oztrich Boy (New gets old. Steampunk is always cool)
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