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Arab states, Turkey plan 'No-Fly Zone' over Syria ("backed by American logistic support")
Albawaba.com ^ | 11-22-11 | unattributed

Posted on 11/22/2011 4:39:17 PM PST by dynachrome

Senior European sources said that Arab jet fighters, and possibly Turkish warplanes, backed by American logistic support will implement a no fly zone in Syria's skies, after the Arab League will issue a decision, under its Charter, calling for the protection of Syrian civilians. The sources told Kuwait's al Rai daily that the no fly ban will include a ban on the movement of Syrian military vehicles, including tanks, personnel carriers and artillery, adding that this move would aim at curbing the movement of Assad forces, and cripple their ability to bomb cities. The European sources said the no fly ban might lead to the paralysis of the Syrian regime forces "in less than 24 hours." Meanwhile, it is reported that the leadership of the Turkish General Staff informed all the concerned parties with the Syrian issue its rejection of the idea that the Turkish army would launch any invasion to the Syrian territory including the area adjacent to the Turkish border to establish a "buffer zone" to protect civilians fleeing the violence.

(Excerpt) Read more at albawaba.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: iran; iraq; lebanon; muzzies; nato; noflyzone; syria; turkey
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War #4?
1 posted on 11/22/2011 4:39:26 PM PST by dynachrome
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To: dynachrome
Now this would be interesting. Assad and Hezbollah in Lebanon have tens of thousands of short range missiles. Would they use them on Turkey?
2 posted on 11/22/2011 4:48:42 PM PST by Truth29
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To: dynachrome

LOL

No surprise Hussein has fallen in with the muslim brotherhood`s second attempt at civil war in Syria.

Of course the first try was crushed by the Alawite Assad in the 1980s.

Hussein`s foreign policy of a radical muslim caliphate marches on.


3 posted on 11/22/2011 4:50:16 PM PST by Para-Ord.45
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To: dynachrome

Syria’s leadership is Alawite - Turkey’s Islamists, who are Sunnis, would naturally be offended by people they view as subhuman killing fellow Sunnis.


Mainstream Muslims, Sunni and Shi’i alike, traditionally disregarded ‘Alawi efforts at dissimulation; they viewed ‘Alawis as beyond the pale of Islam - as non-Muslims. Hamza ibn ‘Ali, who saw the religion’s appeal lying in its perversity, articulated this view: “The first thing that promotes the wicked Nusayri is the fact that all things normally prohibited to humans - murder, stealing, lying, calumny, fornication, pederasty - is permitted to he or she who accepts [’Alawi doctrines].” Abu Hamid al-Ghazali (1058-1111), the Thomas Aquinas of Islam, wrote that the ‘Alawis “apostatize in matters of blood, money, marriage, and butchering, so it is a duty to kill them.”

Ahmad ibn Taymiya (1268-1328), the still highly influential Sunni writer of Syrian origins, wrote in a fatwa (religious decision) that “the Nusayris are more infidel than Jews or Christians, even more infidel than many polytheists. They have done greater harm to the community of Muhammad than have the warring infidels such as the Franks, the Turks, and others. To ignorant Muslims they pretend to be Shi’is, though in reality they do not believe in God or His prophet or His book.” Ibn Taymiya warned of the mischief their enmity can do: “Whenever possible, they spill the blood of Muslims. They are always the worst enemies of the Muslims.” In conclusion, he argued that “war and punishment in accordance with Islamic law against them are among the greatest of pious deeds and the most important obligations” for a Muslim. From the fourteenth century on, Sunnis used the term “Nusayri” to mean pariah.

‘Alawis had had no recognized position in the millet (sectarian) system of the Ottoman Empire. An Ottoman decree from 1571 notes that “ancient custom” required ‘Alawis to pay extra taxes to the authorities and justified this on the grounds that ‘Alawis “neither practice the fast [of Ramadan] nor the ritual prayers, nor do they observe any precepts of the Islamic religion.” Sunnis often saw food produced by ‘Alawis as unclean, and did not eat it. According to Jacques Weulerrse, “no ‘Alawi would dare enter a Muslim mosque. Formerly, not one of their religious leaders was able to go to town on the day of public prayer [Friday] without risk of being stoned. Any public demonstration of the community’s separate identity was taken as a challenge [by the Sunnis].”

Sunnis were not alone in reading ‘Alawis out of Islam-mainstream Shi’is did likewise. And ‘Alawis in turn saw both groups as deficient.

Sunni heresiographers excoriated Alawi beliefs and viewed the Alawis as disbelievers (kuffar) and idolaters (mushrikun). Twelver Shi’i heresiographers were only slightly less vituperative and regarded the Alawis as ghulat, “those who exceed” all bounds in their deification of Ali. The Alawis, in turn, held Twelver Shi’is to be muqassira, “those who fall short” of fathoming Ali’s divinity.


http://www.danielpipes.org/191/the-alawi-capture-of-power-in-syria


4 posted on 11/22/2011 5:03:28 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: dynachrome

My first thought is the path of Israeli war planes to Iran.


5 posted on 11/22/2011 5:04:55 PM PST by Track9
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To: Truth29
Now this would be interesting. Assad and Hezbollah in Lebanon have tens of thousands of short range missiles. Would they use them on Turkey?

No need. All Assad has to do is to start backing Turkey's Kurdish rebels. Turkey's Kurdish population is estimated at 16m people. Assad could also finally stop persecuting the Kurds in Syria and welcome them as a buffer against Turkey and an ally against Sunni Arabs in Syria.

6 posted on 11/22/2011 5:07:35 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Truth29

The problem with using those missiles on Turkey is that Turkey is a NATO ally, and a missile attack on Turkish soil brings all kinds of treaty complications, whereas giving Turkish Kurds sanctuary creates all kinds of problems for the Turks without triggering a NATO response.


7 posted on 11/22/2011 5:11:24 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Track9

Me too. I immediately thought Iran when reading the headline.


8 posted on 11/22/2011 5:14:58 PM PST by Col Frank Slade
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To: Zhang Fei
"No need. All Assad has to do is to start backing Turkey's Kurdish rebels. Turkey's Kurdish population is estimated at 16m people. Assad could also finally stop persecuting the Kurds in Syria and welcome them as a buffer against Turkey and an ally against Sunni Arabs in Syria."

That would certainly cause Turkey a lot of grief, too; but it sounds like it would take awhile to get rolling. If Turkey is going to try and do the same thing the US and NATO did to Libya, Assad will want to strike quickly before he loses the capability. After seeing Qaddafi's fate, I suspect that Assad will not surrender and will try to take as many of his attackers as possible with him.

9 posted on 11/22/2011 5:18:43 PM PST by Truth29
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To: Col Frank Slade

I doubt the administration would want to explain outright betrayal of Israel but under the guise of ‘protecting Syrian civilians’ they’d have no problem raising the alarm and within minutes the entire mooslime world would be shooting missiles.


10 posted on 11/22/2011 5:25:16 PM PST by Track9
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To: Para-Ord.45

Barry Hussein Obama, making the world safe for the Muslim Brotherhood since 2009.


11 posted on 11/22/2011 5:27:58 PM PST by mike-zed
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To: dynachrome

Ouch........ow....... ow!

Can you hear Iran scream? Iran is being squeezed very very hard


12 posted on 11/22/2011 5:29:45 PM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ..... Crucifixion is coming)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks dynachrome.
Arab jet fighters, and possibly Turkish warplanes, backed by American logistic support will implement a no fly zone in Syria's skies, after the Arab League will issue a decision, under its Charter, calling for the protection of Syrian civilians.
Iraq will balk.

Iran will take a more active role in the Assad stonewalling, despite recent apparent waffling.


13 posted on 11/22/2011 5:34:16 PM PST by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: dynachrome

Hmmm, not so sure about this. They may agree to call for a no fly zone but I cannot see these countries setting up a NFZ that hasn’t also been agreed on by the UN. And there is no way Russia/China will allow that to pass.


14 posted on 11/22/2011 5:44:50 PM PST by maquiladora
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To: Truth29
If Turkey is going to try and do the same thing the US and NATO did to Libya, Assad will want to strike quickly before he loses the capability. After seeing Qaddafi's fate, I suspect that Assad will not surrender and will try to take as many of his attackers as possible with him.

While he might or might not take great pleasure is slaughtering random numbers of Turks with missile barrages, launching those missiles is a surefire way of guaranteeing his own demise, because that will trigger a Turkish invasion that he will surely lose. Gaddafi fell because too few were willing to fight to the death for him. Syria's Alawite, Druze and Christian populations (~30% of the population) know that they will be exterminated if Sunni Islamists take power. As long as Turkey does not invade, Assad has a strong chance of staying in power, because these minority populations will stand with him to avoid being slaughtered in the event that the Alawite regime falls.

15 posted on 11/22/2011 5:45:39 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: dynachrome

I don’t see a vital American interest. Of course, that’s why I expected Obama to back this.


16 posted on 11/22/2011 5:45:51 PM PST by Pollster1 (Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)
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To: dynachrome

Thansk to whowver put this in “breaking” I was unsure of the source for the story, since I had nver heard of alwabawa.


17 posted on 11/22/2011 5:53:02 PM PST by dynachrome ("Our forefathers didn't bury their guns. They buried those that tried to take them.")
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To: Zhang Fei

Turkey is the front man for a larger conspiracy. Motive for Turkey is ticket into the EU (as bad an idea as it is). Part of the NWO.

Purpose is to eliminate national sovereignty piece by piece and precedence has been established and entrenched for a future attack against the United States. Who will be the winner? Muzzies? China? The UN? Agenda 21?

Drill and let the Muzzies destroy each other.

Nations that can resist internal subversives may become allies to fight the NWO. They are the non-socialist and converting to capitalism states and states stepping away from their advances towards socialism after seeing the light.


18 posted on 11/22/2011 5:53:26 PM PST by Surrounded_too
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To: dynachrome

Good, we get to help the Sunni in their perpetual war against the Shia. This should turn out well.


19 posted on 11/22/2011 5:58:15 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: dynachrome

My guess is that it’s the Jordanian media mouthpiece, funded on a shoestring budget, relative to Qatari-government-funded al Jazeera. I’d think of it as the moderate alternative to (all jihad all the time) al Jazeera. From Wikipedia:


Al Bawaba is a news, blogging and media website[1] headquartered in Amman, Jordan with an office in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. Al Bawaba publishes news stories related to the Middle East. It has separate English and Arabic sections.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Bawaba


20 posted on 11/22/2011 5:59:12 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: dynachrome

“alwabawa” or alibaba may be on the mark. Which universe or realm is the question. :)


21 posted on 11/22/2011 6:01:36 PM PST by odds
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To: Zhang Fei

That’s the historical norm. Good history and background in your other post as well.

Obama’s foreign policy is going for Maximum Mess.

You’ve got three empires - Persia, Turkey, and Egypt - vying for power with a shadow empire - Saudi Arabia - working behind the scenes and in madrassa’s across the globe to install Sharia law on unsuspecting liberal governments.

It’s not going to be a smooth flight.


22 posted on 11/22/2011 6:01:38 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Col Frank Slade; Track9

You two and about 1% of Americans. The rest are wondering what to buy on Black Friday and the other half are wondering what they’re going to get for Christmas.


23 posted on 11/22/2011 6:03:38 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: dynachrome
( Arab states, Turkey plan 'No-Fly Zone' over Syria ("backed by American logistic support") ....

Everyone knows that Turkeys can't fly... go ask WKRP...
24 posted on 11/22/2011 6:05:43 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: dynachrome
( * Arab states, Turkey plan 'No-Fly Zone' over Syria ("backed by American logistic support" * )

Arthur Carlson : " God as my witness, I thought Turkeys could fly "


25 posted on 11/22/2011 6:14:51 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: Surrounded_too
Drill and let the Muzzies destroy each other.

Staying completely out of it seldom works out well. Somebody always wins, and the empire that results will be stronger because of added population and resources. This is why a classic precept of strategic thought is to support* the weak against the strong, preferably the lesser of two evils. And Alawites are considered heretics - and therefore even more subhuman than non-Muslims - by Shiites** and Sunnis alike.

* This support doesn't have to take the form of direct military intervention - US financial and military aid for the South East Asian countries during the Vietnam War era prevented those countries from being similarly overrun by Chinese- and Soviet-backed (with arms, money and training) Communist insurgencies.

** If Assad is a heretic, why are Shiite regimes supporting him? Because the alternative is a Sunni-ruled Syrian regime - a real danger to Shiite states, considering that the vast majority of Muslim states in the region are Sunni-ruled. Shiites fear Sunnis because Sunnis have this habit of slaughtering or otherwise persecuting religious minorities.

26 posted on 11/22/2011 6:29:08 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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very old map, but shows the Kurds sprinkled across a bunch of countries occupying their territory.

http://www.users.cloud9.net/~recross/israel-watch/images/Kurdistan.jpg


27 posted on 11/22/2011 6:32:00 PM PST by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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ah, a newer map:

http://users.htcomp.net/kishwork/Kland.jpg


28 posted on 11/22/2011 6:33:24 PM PST by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: dynachrome

My guess is that Al Bawaba stands for The Gatekeeper.


http://essenes.net/index.php?Itemid=1073&id=752&option=com_content&task=view


29 posted on 11/22/2011 6:37:11 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei

Thanks!


30 posted on 11/22/2011 6:40:49 PM PST by dynachrome ("Our forefathers didn't bury their guns. They buried those that tried to take them.")
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To: dynachrome
This type of action by any political body is frightening to comprehend. What happens if the UN decides to put a no-fly zone over America and keeps our military from whatever actions they are engaged in? And what actions would they deem so important that they wouldn't want us meddling in?

What about the border with Mexico? Canada? terrorists actvities? etc..........

31 posted on 11/22/2011 6:55:15 PM PST by ducttape45
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To: 1010RD

No British empire in that mix?


32 posted on 11/22/2011 7:15:25 PM PST by odds
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To: Para-Ord.45

It does look like Hussein wants a Caliphate armed with Nukes pointed at us.

All these states are going Radical Islam and have a death wish for us.


33 posted on 11/22/2011 7:22:50 PM PST by PA-RIVER
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To: Zhang Fei

Who’s going to fly Muz-Cap?


34 posted on 11/22/2011 7:51:48 PM PST by bayouranger (The 1st victim of islam is the person who practices the lie.)
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To: bayouranger
Who’s going to fly Muz-Cap?

My guess? Turkey. The Arab contribution will probably consist of cash grants to pay for fuel and ordnance. Unfortunately, our taxpayer dollars may end up going towards handing free ammo and fuel to Turkey so that they can achieve their goal of a Sunni Islamist (Ikhwan aka The Brethren aka Muslim Brotherhood) government in Syria to replace the current Alawite heretics running the place.

35 posted on 11/22/2011 8:29:58 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: dynachrome

It is the handing over of the muslim world to religious sunni extremists. Long gone are the days of the strongarm arab rulers who destroy any semblance of religious extremism. It started in Iraq, and has spread to all of north africa and now its syrias turn. In the place of these dictators will rise islamic regimes and will lead to discrimination among minorities, specifically middle eastern Christians(case in point: Iraq, Egypt)
In the meantime, Obama and his grand project of further islamizing the arab world is a whopping success.


36 posted on 11/22/2011 10:31:10 PM PST by hannibaal
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To: hannibaal

bttt


37 posted on 11/22/2011 11:40:04 PM PST by odds
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To: dynachrome

Imagine where we’d be if Obamao didn’t win a Nobel Peace Prize.


38 posted on 11/23/2011 2:12:49 AM PST by hattend (If I wanted you dead, you'd be dead. - Cameron Connor)
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To: dynachrome; jhpigott

ping


39 posted on 11/23/2011 4:36:02 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ..... Crucifixion is coming)
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To: dynachrome
At some point, the subject of "War Crimes" needs to be discussed. After all, Article 2 of the UN Charter states: All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations. (And, like it or not, we are a signatory to that charter)

So far as I can see, there was no UN Security Council resolution given to authorize military force against Libya. There is no UNSC Resolution authorizing the use of force against Syria. So they haven't, in either case, complied with Article 43.

And no declaration of war has been given by Congress (nor an authorization given in accordance with the War Powers Resolution)

And neither country has asked for assistance.

So, as far as I can see, these are huge war crimes. I'm not any kind of a peacenik...but there is a proper, legal way to go about this (like how GWB did with both Afghanistan and Iraq) and an illegal way (like Clinton in Kosovo, Barry in Libya, and now this).

40 posted on 11/23/2011 7:28:58 AM PST by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good-Pope Leo XIII)
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To: dynachrome

This may be bluster to put more pressure on Assad’s regime.

Is there a serious, credibly military and logistical plan for this???

I know that the IAF has kicked the SAF’s butts hard in the past, but without Israeli involvement (pretty unthinkable with current Turkish and Arab sentiments toward Israel), it would all depend upon Turkey’s capabilities and commitment.

Syria would not roll over, and it would be a tougher nut than Libya I’d guess....

Not saying it can’t be done militarily, but if Syria puts up a solid fight (big ‘if’ I know) Turkey would face serious losses even with their NATO quality forces.

I’m not saying this is not possible, either militarily or diplomatically, just that it seems unlikely to me. It would be a much tougher task than the no-fly zone over Libya.


41 posted on 11/23/2011 8:37:54 AM PST by Enchante
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To: shield

Indirect Perry ping


42 posted on 11/23/2011 9:01:22 AM PST by Gene Eric (Save a pretzel for the gas jet.)
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To: Gene Eric; Cincinatus' Wife; RoosterRedux; jonrick46; deepbluesea; RockinRight; TexMom7; ...
p> Perry Ping....

IF you'd rather NOT be pinged FReepmail me.

IF you'd like to be added FReepmail me. Thanks.

43 posted on 11/23/2011 9:09:43 AM PST by shield (Rev 2:9 Woe unto those who say they are Judahites and are not, but are of the syna GOG ue of Satan.)
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To: Zhang Fei; Truth29

A better plan would be to fire their missles at Israel. Sure, Israel would likely pound the hell out of them. but the rest of the Muslim world would have to rally to Assad’s side. They coudln’t afford to be seen as stabbing a frontline state in the back while they are fighting the hated Jews.

Too bad for Saddam and Khadaffi they didn’t have a border with Israel.


44 posted on 11/23/2011 11:50:49 AM PST by Hugin ("Most time a man'll tell you his bad intentions if you listen and let yourself hear"--Open Range)
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To: odds

The Empah passed from the scene by 1967 when they withdrew from east of Aden.


45 posted on 11/23/2011 1:32:09 PM PST by RitchieAprile (Precious little in your life is yours by right and won without a fight..)
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To: dynachrome

Are there still US assets in Libya? Didn’t they win yet? Best damned thing that could happen right now is the fall of Assad, however that’s accomplished. Suddenly, Iran and Hizbollah are short a partner.


46 posted on 11/23/2011 1:43:34 PM PST by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Zhang Fei

Assad could support the Turkish Kurds. Turkey could support the Syrian Kurds. Israel could support the Turkish, Syrian and Iranian Kurds, and also Iranian student dissidents. Let the good times roll.


47 posted on 11/23/2011 1:50:54 PM PST by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: dynachrome

Yep war #4 since Uganda hasn’t sprouted yet. Also Yemen sorta fell a bit this week...another fracas we’re in thanks to the Nobel dynamite prize guy.


48 posted on 11/23/2011 2:41:57 PM PST by Karliner ( Jeremiah 29:11, Romans 8:28, "...this is the end of the beginning."WC)
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To: Karliner

Egypt still has possibilities.


49 posted on 11/23/2011 3:13:44 PM PST by dynachrome ("Our forefathers didn't bury their guns. They buried those that tried to take them.")
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To: dynachrome
Turd Ferguson offers the following potential scenario:

1) In the name of "civilian safety", NATO begins "kinetic military action" vs Syria.

2) Iran responds as support for their ally.

3) Israel now has "cover" to attack Iran nuclear facilities.

4) Iran unleashes attack on Israel and activates "cells" all over Europe and in U.S.

50 posted on 11/23/2011 3:46:26 PM PST by Brandybux (Oportet ministros manus lavare antequam latrinam relinquent.)
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