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Navy Blue Angels fly into era of budget questions
AP ^ | 23 Nov 2011 | MELISSA NELSON

Posted on 11/23/2011 7:07:09 AM PST by SkyPilot

Edited on 11/23/2011 7:09:19 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

PENSACOLA NAVAL AIR STATION, Fla. The Navy's Blue Angels have been thrilling audiences for more than six decades with their acrobatic flying in fighter planes, but a new era of federal budget worries and proposed deficit cutting has some inside and outside the military raising questions about the millions it costs to produce their shows.


(Excerpt) Read more at xfinity.comcast.net ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bhosecdef; cuts; dod; entitlements; militaryspending; navair; supercommittee; usnavy
The Faustian bargain the Republicans agreed to last August regarding this "Super Committee" was perhaps the biggest politial mistake in a generation.

Entitlements were off the table from the beginning once the debt ceiling "deal" was reached.

The evil Barney Frank, Sen "Dumbest Member of Congress" Murray, and the perfectly possessed Barack Obama could not contain their glee on Monday when it was announed the Dept of Defense would be gutted.

In August of 2010, Pelosi held a single vote, in a single afternoon when Congress was not even in session, to give away about $30 Billion away to teachers and state workers who support Obama and Democrats in droves.

Obama's "jobs bill" is nothing but more of the same - yet the Dept of Defense (one of the few functions of the Federal Govt called for in the Constitution) has been raped of $350 Billion so far, with another Trillion to go.

Until someone, somewhere, has the political courage to tell the 47% of American who are getting an EBT card, a Direct Deposit check, subsidized housing, or Federal Daycare - the word "No" - then our nation is on a path towards destruction.


1 posted on 11/23/2011 7:07:11 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot

A great way to flush an invaluable recruiting tool down the head.


2 posted on 11/23/2011 7:09:48 AM PST by TSgt ("Romney" means "rino cult" in Kenyan)
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To: SkyPilot

And the Thunderbirds?


3 posted on 11/23/2011 7:18:36 AM PST by onedoug (lf)
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To: onedoug

Hopefully still GO....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K9rVRuehGU


4 posted on 11/23/2011 7:39:01 AM PST by wally_bert (It's sheer elegance in its simplicity! - The Middleman)
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To: TSgt

Nothing wrong with consolidation.


5 posted on 11/23/2011 7:51:46 AM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Perry and his fellow demorats.)
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To: wally_bert

´Serves me right. I should have read the actual article before posting. Early morning, bleary eyed....

Though your post led me to another series that I liked as a kid: ¨Supercar¨. Wow, that Mike Mercury sure had eyebrows.


6 posted on 11/23/2011 8:22:04 AM PST by onedoug (lf)
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To: org.whodat

The Canadians just undid the “consolidation” of their military.


7 posted on 11/23/2011 8:23:11 AM PST by pfflier
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To: floralamiss

Pinging you, baby :-*


8 posted on 11/23/2011 8:23:11 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: SkyPilot

“Until someone, somewhere, has the political courage to tell the 47% of American who are getting an EBT card, a Direct Deposit check, subsidized housing, or Federal Daycare - the word “No” - then our nation is on a path towards destruction.”

You won’t hear “No” from Boehner, McConnell, Romney, Gingrich, Huntsman, or anyone in the Bush family. Ron Paul sounds like he would say “No” very loudly but would also significantly cut defense. Bachmann, Santorum, Perry, and Cain sound like they might say “No” but not put up a huge fight when the Democrats and media came at them with a frontal assualt.

Electing a Republican President and Senate is not going to result in major change. It isn’t just the 47% of voters getting a check, it is all of the financial institutions and corporate parasites who have skin in big government. The cost of running campaigns today means almost every politician is owned by someone or multiple someones. Billions of dollars will be spent on the 2012 campaign on both sides. The people and institutions who provide the funding will expect and get a return on their investment. The moneyed interests have very different goals and priorities than the struggling middle class. In 2008 the Wall Street executives succeeded in getting the US government to bail them out and preserve their personal fortunes. They will not give up this new entitlement and will spend aggressively to defend their position.

The US economy and political system worked, despite the rapid growth of entitlement spending and corporate welfare, when the pie was growing. However, Wall Street and the multinational corporations were able to persuade our government to drop tariffs and trade barriers in the 1990’s. The resulting deindustrialization of the US enriched Wall Street and the executives at multinationals while destroying US manufacturing, many small to mid size companies, and the US middle class. The internet bubble and the real estate bubble created the illusion of prosperity to cover up the gutting of the economy and allowed government to continue its spending spree. Today, the regulatory, tax, trade, and financial environment is hostile to entrepreneurs so many people who might have started up new ventures will not. As a result the economic pie has stopped growing and is shrinking yet the entitlement voters and corporate welfare recipients have ever growing appetites. Now we are going to experience extremely difficult times and the decisions, or no decisions, made over the next year or so will determine our fate.

I’m not a Ron Paul fan and I don’t believe he is electable. However, he is the only player who is really talking frankly about the tough and significant cuts to specific programs that need to be made. He is also the only one talking about getting the budget balanced in 4 years and then paying down the debt. The rest of them are talking about trimming the budget and making the existing bloated bureaucracy more efficient. Once one of them gets elected they’ll be just like George Bush — playing the Washington compromise game and preparing to run again.

Our leaders are not deep thinkers and patriots concerned about the long term future of the nation. They are professional politicians who play the game to line their nests and massage their egos. Look at Gingrich taking $1.6 million from Freddie Mac to give advice as a historian. If he were a principled conservative, he wouldn’t have even considered taking such a deal. The fact he did just shows he is happy to be part of the Washington gravy train.

The other telling thing for me is the fact the Republican House allowed Obamacare to be off the table for the SuperCommittee negotiations. Boehner has done absolutely nothing to stop Obamacare since he became Speaker and the Republicans really aren’t making it a huge issue other than some of the presidential candidates mentioning it to call Romney a hypocrite. I suspect big pharma and big medical supply companies like J&J have already figured out how to game Obamacare and are quietly spreading enough money around the Republican Party to keep it from being killed. If the Supreme Court doesn’t rule against Obamacare in June, we will see the Republican Party opposition quietly go away and another big millstone hung around the 53% who pay the bills.

It is going to take a major war that threatens the homeland, or a total financial collapse, or both to effect real change. Unfortunately, the real change is as likely to be dictatorship as it is a rebirth of small government committed to individual liberty. Remember, Europe chose socialism and statism after the destruction of WWII instead of free market capitalism and limited government.

The USA came back strong from the Great Depression and WWII. At that time we had a common culture and shared values. In addition we had strong leaders who would put the nation’s well being ahead of petty political differences. Fiscal responsibility was ingrained in the DNA of our politicians. However, today we live in immoral times and our leaders in industry, politics, academia, and the media are self serving narcissists who live to line their pockets and exert their power and influence over others. The absence of shame, loss of common culture, and hatred for our country among its elites makes me believe a slide into dictatorship is more likely than a return to founding principles. As I look around my neighborhood and workplace today I see very few people who care enough about this nation to give their lives to change the course. I perceive most people will gladly accept chains if they can keep their flat screen televisions. Not unlike the Germans who sat cowering in their homes while the Nazis rounded up their political opponents, gypsies, and Jews. They delayed paying the price of their acquiescence for a few years but ultimately lived through the horror of war and destruction.

Inertia is a powerful force. Ronald Reagan slowed the advance of communism and statism but he wasn’t able to get the nation’s fiscal house in order. We came close to having our fiscal house in order when George W. Bush took office but he unfortunately didn’t have the backbone to say “No” and keep the nation on the road to financial security. Instead, he doubled the nation’s deficit in eight years and by wearing the cloak of a conservative while doing so, eliminated any remaining moral restraint in the governing class thereby setting the stage for the unconscionable and irresponsible spending orgy of the current administration.

For those who say Bush wasn’t as bad as Obama I say you are merely quibbling about degrees of badness. Doubling the national debt in eight years is irresponsible leadership. Period. Had Bush aggressively used his veto pen I might give him a little slack. Unfortunately, he gladly signed outrageous spending bills while adding the additional unfunded prescription care drug entitlement not to mention the bloated Department of Homeland Security and TARP. In the 2008 financial crisis he abdicated his leadership role to Paulson thereby allowing Paulson, Bernanke, and Geithner to unconstitutionally transfer the privately held bad debt on Wall Street to the backs of the taxpayers. The experience of eight years of the compassionate conservative George Bush give me little hope things will improve if the Republicans gain the presidency and both houses of Congress in 2012.

I deplore the gutting of the defense budget. However, the loss of our national identity and sense of purpose is a greater issue than the size of our army and navy. South Vietnam fell to communist North Vietnam despite having one of the most well equipped and trained armies in the world. Its government was hopelessly corrupt and its people did not care enough about their nation to carry on the fight once the US soldiers went home. We will see the same thing in Iraq in 2012 as Iran takes control when the US is gone. Afghanistan, another fragmented “nation” is showing the same thing — corruption and division into tribal politics. Is the USA today any different?

If our sense of national identity is lost, it doesn’t matter how much we spend on defense. Our nation will perish or transform into a brutal dictatorship to maintain its current borders. Obama knows this and uses every chance he gets to divide us through class envy and racial polarization.

Great sacrifices are going to be needed soon. If the nation has a shared sense of identity and purpose, its citizens will make those sacrifices voluntarily (as they did in WWII) for the common good. If the nation is divided into factions, each seeking advantage over the other, its citizens will not sacrifice and the government will impose the sacrifice at the point of a gun.


9 posted on 11/23/2011 8:23:19 AM PST by Soul of the South (When times are tough the tough get going.)
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To: SkyPilot

Where’s our MacArthur? FDR gutted the defense budget to buy votes for the Democrats. MacArthur drew the line on cutting the officer corps. He knew they’d be needed if war broke out, and I believe he saw war coming. FDR wanted to cut the officer corps. MacArthur told him something to the effect that “When the next war breaks out and an American Soldier is lying on the battlefield with the enemy getting ready to thrust a bayonet in his throat because we didn’t have the necessary military, then that American’s last words will be f-ck Roosevelt and not f-ck MacArthur” and he stormed out of the White House. Our generals and admirals are too busy writing books and lobbying for other government jobs.


10 posted on 11/23/2011 8:40:25 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: pfflier
There is no reason to have two flying show groups was what I was addressing. ,
11 posted on 11/23/2011 8:41:43 AM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Perry and his fellow demorats.)
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To: org.whodat

Theres almost no way one of those groups can successfully make all the airshows that two are requested to be in.
They are the big draw for all major airshows. The rocket truck just doesnt pull em’ in any more!


12 posted on 11/23/2011 8:45:25 AM PST by DainBramage
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To: DainBramage
We be broke, do you want equipment are do you want air shows.
13 posted on 11/23/2011 8:49:39 AM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Perry and his fellow demorats.)
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To: SkyPilot
There is no money, and this is a frill. Don't need them to defend the US. Same with the Thunder birds, Golden Knights, and the Marine Corp Band.

Sorry, there is no money.

14 posted on 11/23/2011 8:55:56 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: org.whodat
So youre going to destroy the planes and fire the pilots and ground crews? Or just move them somewhere and keep using them?

You do know the airshow provides all fuel needs and housing? Im betting as a recruiting tool they more than pay for themselves.

15 posted on 11/23/2011 9:05:25 AM PST by DainBramage
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To: magslinger

Ping


16 posted on 11/23/2011 9:20:18 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: DainBramage
Cannot afford it.
17 posted on 11/23/2011 9:28:01 AM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Perry and his fellow demorats.)
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To: Vroomfondel; SC Swamp Fox; Fred Hayek; NY Attitude; P3_Acoustic; investigateworld; lowbuck; ...
SONOBUOY PING!

Photobucket

Click on pic for past Navair pings. Post or FReepmail me if you wish to be enlisted in or discharged from the Navair Pinglist. The only requirement for inclusion in the Navair Pinglist is an interest in Naval Aviation. This is a medium to low volume pinglist.

18 posted on 11/23/2011 9:34:58 AM PST by magslinger (Who cares if they are"electable" if they are going to govern like Democrats? -noprogs)
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To: org.whodat
Neither the Blue Angels nor the Thunderbirds are solely "Flying Show Groups".

Their missions are to instill interest in a military career, to demonstrate the tactics and hardware the Air Force and the Navy possess and to demonstrate their service unique committment to excellence.

We need more of that in all aspects of our society, not less.

19 posted on 11/23/2011 10:01:18 AM PST by pfflier
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To: pfflier

And tanks and support of drag racing and nascar is not doing anything. LOL, actually I think, a tank at the county fair and the men in drag racing and nascar have a bigger bang for the buck. http://www.goarmy.com/army-racing/nhra-top-fuel.html


20 posted on 11/23/2011 10:07:05 AM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Perry and his fellow demorats.)
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To: org.whodat
You didnt answer my questions. How exactly are you going to save money. Destroy the planes and fire the crews?

Because you have to do that in order to save much. Other wise you are just doing the same flying somewhere else.

One could actually save the same amount by not running a couple of aircraft carriers for a day....if that LOL.

You are cutting in the wrong spot. Washington is the place to cut. Shut the government down for a month with no pay and see how much you save vs production lost. Probably wont even notice the dif. And the places where you see no production loss whatso ever ...fire 25 % of the employees.

21 posted on 11/23/2011 12:42:17 PM PST by DainBramage
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To: redgolum
Sorry, there is no money.

Do the EBT cards still work? Are the dual household Social Security checks still being direct deposited? Is that SSDI payment still being paid?

Our $15 Trillion in debt is strangling us as a nation, but it wasn't military spending that is breaking our back. Spending on the defense is now barely 3.5% of GDP.

What is bankrupting us is Entitlements - and that exponential disease is growing every day.

22 posted on 11/23/2011 5:13:47 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot
True, but the fist step to balancing a budget is to stop spending money on the frills. Demonstration teams are frills.

So are nice congressional offices, most of the White house staff, and a lot of other things.

There is NO MONEY! You can't say “Well my pet project doesn't cost to much in the grand scheme of things!”. Everyone can say that will a 15 Trillion dollar debt.

Everything has to be cut. Everything has to be on the table. If we really want to reduce our debt, you have to cut deep, and not just into things that are nice to have, but not needed.

23 posted on 11/23/2011 6:53:04 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

I’ve heard ‘no more money’ for a decades but things are still happening.

If there was really ‘no more money’ we’d have zero military whatsoever.

There is still a lot of money out there. It’s where it goes that is the problem.


24 posted on 11/23/2011 6:58:13 PM PST by Tolaei1
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To: Tolaei1

What are our incoming taxes, what our our outgoing expenses, and where does the difference come from?

Once the bond auctions fail (like they did in Germany), the game stops.


25 posted on 11/23/2011 7:08:55 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

The tiny costs of the Blue Angels or NASA aren’t the issues.

Want to cut expenses? Phase out SS in the next 15 years.

Don’t chase ants, go after the elephant. It’s politically impossible though, even conservatives won’t go after the big targets.


26 posted on 11/23/2011 7:28:01 PM PST by Tolaei1
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To: Tolaei1

Everybodies sacred cows will have to be made into burger. Cut SS while keeping things like the blue angles will not work. Go on any FR SS thread to see just how that goes over. Everything need to be on the block.


27 posted on 11/23/2011 7:33:48 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

Well, people apparently fail math I guess. You don’t expect .0001% to matter when 75% is off the table.

If you have to cut that tiny amount to get 1% off the big one, you’ve not really gained much except bragging rights.

If SS will be cut by 75% to get rid of those tiny budget items, ok. Heck, I’d say a 20% cut on SS/Medicare and I’ll get rid of the smaller stuff.

We all know though that the low fruit are things like this article and nothing will be done on the big ones.


28 posted on 11/23/2011 7:37:37 PM PST by Tolaei1
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To: redgolum
There is NO MONEY! You can't say “Well my pet project doesn't cost to much in the grand scheme of things!”. Everyone can say that will a 15 Trillion dollar debt. Everything has to be cut. Everything has to be on the table.

1. There is money. Trillions of dollars. Yes, 40 cents of every dollar is borrowed. But the amount of money being spent is immense; almost incalculable.

2. Everything is not "on the table", and Entitlements never wereon the table during this disastrous Super Committee debt deal to begin with.

Do you understand that this is what has happened, and is happening?

Entitlements are protected, and growing at almost the rate of cancer cells.

Defense has been mortally wounded with cuts, and now on top of that it is being eviscerated.

29 posted on 11/23/2011 8:09:21 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: Soul of the South
Your post #9 is one of the most brilliant and eloquent I have read in quite some time.

I read it aloud to my wife this morning over our Thanksgiving breakfast and coffee.

You captured the problems and the deep rooted problems of this nation. I believe the core problem for this nation is ultimately spiritual. Not as in "new age" spiritual, but Judeo-Christian spiritual - for we have rejected God Almighty, and we as a nation are reaping as we have sown.

There is always hope if we pray to God. Prayer changes things. And for that, I can continue on.

Have a blessed and happy Thanksgiving.

30 posted on 11/24/2011 5:44:29 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot
Ok, lets game this.

We go to the SS recipients, and tell them “You are getting massive cuts, but that is OK, the Blue Angels will keep flying!”

Remember, we have SS people on FR saying we need sell our national parks to China to pay them off. Politically, how well will that work?

The military is going to be scaled back. Massively. We have been playing world policeman to long, and just like Great Britain before us, can't keep doing it. The reality is that both military spending and entitlements will be cut.

And if 40 to 50% of all that I spend is done on credit, I am broke. There is no money. If you did that in your household, you would rapidly come to the conclusion that you need to scale back your lifestyle. Including the “little perks and frills”. We have been spending like madmen for 60 years, and we have to stop.

I know that you are emotionally connected to the subject, but would you be defending a study on the sexual habits of Mexican tree slugs as “Just a little bit, not really that much money?”

31 posted on 11/24/2011 6:40:30 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

Someone should make a Red Dawn-type movie where all the performance acts in the military end up saving the nation :-)


32 posted on 11/24/2011 6:46:53 AM PST by rabidralph
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To: redgolum
We go to the SS recipients, and tell them “You are getting massive cuts, but that is OK, the Blue Angels will keep flying!” Remember, we have SS people on FR saying we need sell our national parks to China to pay them off. Politically, how well will that work?

No.

The way it should be approached is realize that Social Security is a tax, it was a tax, and it always has been a tax.

There is no "trust fund" and people are not receiving "their money." On this point Gov Rick Perry was correct - it is a Ponzi scheme whereby the current recipients are bankrupting the country through excessive taxes and through debt.

The reality is that both military spending and entitlements will be cut.

Really? That "reality" isn't happening right now, is it? Entitlements were not even 'on the table' when the Joint Resolution Committee walked into the room.

Will Entitlements be on the table in the future? Will they be scaled back? Will the Cost of Living raises be readjusted so that the programs don't bankrupt our nation even faster than they are now?

I doubt it. Entitlements are political payoffs for votes - and I have seen very few politicians want to tackle them.

I only see them ending or being scaled back after a complete global economic collapse - which ironically now seems more and more likely and less the meanderings of the doomsday prophets of yesteryear. The European economies are collapsing because of Entitlements, and our economy is as well.

If I were to assign "moral equivalency" to Entitlements, I would do it this way. The first people who should be in line disabled veterans and retired military. After that, would be the rest, including Social Security and Medicaid. But, I acknowledge that at least (most) Social Security recipients paid their taxes while working, and had not the system been corrupted and raided in the past the program would not be the train wreck that it is. But, it is still a tax Ponzi scheme, no matter how you slice it. Bringing up the rear would be the perpetual welfare lazy collecting their AFDC, Section 8 housing, EBT cards, day care, subsidized utilities, and the rest. Dead last would be illegal aliens who suck off the welfare and Social Security system. There is no money.

Talking to you is like talking to a wall on this subject. First of all, there is a hell of alot of money involved in this. To the tune of Trillions. There is money - lot's of it borrowed, and the rest of it confiscated via taxation. But there is money, and it is being spent like a water hose. Democrats and most of those getting the checks in their ATM accounts want to see that money rolling in. And that's just our current payouts. There are also about 60 Trillion in unfunded liabilities, but that is another conversation. But there is money all right. Lots of it. And the Fed is printing it by the metric ton.

What you need to realize is that our priorities cannot be paying out thousands of dollars per year to people because those voters "want it."

I can almost guarantee you one thing (given human history, evil in the world, and our sinfulness as human beings): there is going to be another terrible war in our lifetime. A real war. You go to war with what you have. And here is the rub - our military will be expected to work magic in the opening days and weeks of that war, and the American people are going to be in for one hell of a wake up call. Because we are not 1/2 the military (in equipment, numbers, bases, weapons, and infrastructure) today than we were when Reagan was President.

We are going to get shellacked in the next war, and when the people cry and ask "How could this happen?!" - I am going to tell them to look at their Entitlement Direct Deposit slip.

33 posted on 11/24/2011 3:17:34 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: redgolum
Demonstration teams are frills.

A key purpose of periodic military demonstrations is to shake the bones of our domestic enemies. The message is: don't even think it. They despise the Blue Angles. We actually get a lot of bang for our buck out of military air shows.

34 posted on 11/24/2011 3:55:20 PM PST by Reeses (Have you mocked a Democrat today?)
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