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The Gingrich Amnesty
NRO ^ | Nov 23, 2011 | Mark Krikorian

Posted on 11/23/2011 7:34:31 AM PST by heiss

Missed the debate because of wrestling practice, but it’s hardly surprising that Newt would support amnesty for illegal aliens. After the Pelosi global-warming ad and Dede Scozzafava and “right-wing social engineering,” is it any surprise he’d adopt the left’s line on immigration too? He earned a career grade of D from Numbers USA (they calculate back to 1989). Heck, even Barbara Boxer has a career grade of D+.

.. So the Gingrich Amnesty would cover illegal immigrants here when Congress passed IRCA. That is to say, it would pick up where the previous amnesty left off, legalizing precisely those people who didn’t qualify for IRCA. This just underlines what a chump you have to be to support any deal offered you by amnesty supporters.

Which is why “enforcement first” is the only way to go: consistent, unapologetic, across-the-board enforcement of the immigration law at our consulates overseas for visa applicants, at the borders, and inside the country, especially at the worksite — without preconditions or deals or grand bargains.

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: amnesty; gingrich; illegal; newt; rinoexpress
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To: caww

Isn’t the solution to improve the laws or regulations, rather than to give up to pro-illegals (”the Newt approach”)?

In recent days, I’d come to despise that pro-illegal panderer/adulterer. He is a good debater and would be ok VP (going to Sunday talk shows) but his judgement is horrible. He would no doubt push Amnesty and Global Warming Acts if here were in WH.


51 posted on 11/23/2011 8:11:10 AM PST by heiss (heartless)
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To: heiss

Aside from Ron Paul who is the only choice, it’s beginning to look like Gov Perry is not only a lesser of evils, he is likely going to be the only lesser of evils!

Semper Watching!
*****


52 posted on 11/23/2011 8:11:14 AM PST by gunnyg ("A Constitution changed from Freedom, can never be restored; Liberty, once lost, is lost forever...)
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To: Lou Budvis

It doesn’t have to be mass forced deportation. stop the services for illegals, don’t allow them to live and work here and they will self deport. Mexico’s poor is Mexico’s problem.


53 posted on 11/23/2011 8:12:32 AM PST by Yaelle (Herman Cain: the clever conservative with cojones.)
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To: pyx

This is better to post as adhere’s to the Plan and the staus we are at today...not ten or fifteen years ago.

Newt said at the debate..and that with a plan....

....”I think you’ve got to deal with this as a comprehensive approach that starts with controlling the border,....“I do believe if you’ve been here recently and have no ties to the US, we should deport you...... I do believe we should control the border.... ...I do believe we should have very severe penalties for employers.


54 posted on 11/23/2011 8:13:26 AM PST by caww
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To: heiss
If there is reasonable threat that they can be deported, they would lose less services, and would be less likely to stay here (or enter here). When did American become “it can’t be done” country?

Everything you say is true.

When are you going to demonstrate the feasibility of what you want by winning an election? You know, just one.

55 posted on 11/23/2011 8:13:57 AM PST by Jim Noble (To live peacefully with credit-based consumption and fiat money, men would have to be angels.)
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To: Lou Budvis

Processes and rules can be changed. Many of these are just rules or guidelines. No hospital should be forced to pay for the care of illegals.


56 posted on 11/23/2011 8:14:39 AM PST by heiss (heartless)
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To: Lou Budvis; Iron Munro
You know that if an illegal shows up at a hospital, ICE can’t just drive him to the airport and put him on a plane to oaxaca, right? Here’s the process - http://immigration.lawyers.com/deportation/Deportation-and-Removal-Process.html Multiply by 12 mil.

Hiding behind the current process isn't going to get it done.

That's an excuse, not a reason.

Laws are made to be changed, especially when they are wrong.

Otherwise, I guess we should just give up on Roe vs. Wade, right?

Or how about that Dred Scott decision by the Supreme Court, you know the one, where the The United States Supreme Court ruled seven to two against Scott, finding that neither he, nor any person of African ancestry, could claim citizenship in the United States, and therefore Scott could not bring suit in federal court under diversity of citizenship rule.

Yea, those laws are rock-solid, always correct, always moral, aren't they?!
57 posted on 11/23/2011 8:15:03 AM PST by SoConPubbie
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To: SuzyQue
I’ve seen a number of comments on FR this morning supporting the Newt position.

Likely the same exact ones who post the we must have total unquestionable party unity and vote for the GOP nominee no matter who it is {Mitt included} threads. This of course in their eyes is so the liberals don't take over the White House. Newt will say or do anything needed for the publicity moment. Thus the reinvented Newt we have seen over the past couple of years.

He's new, he's interchangeable & comes complete with new accessories. There is Global Warming Newt. Compassionate to illegals Newt. Nancy's friend Newt. Conservative Newt. Just slide in the chip and then press play for the desired Newt position you can hear today. Media package included at no extra cost for this limited time offer. The I resign my position Newt available at a later date.

58 posted on 11/23/2011 8:15:24 AM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Lou Budvis

The executive branch is responsible for border security and INS and as far as I remember, Newt has never been in the executive branch of Government.

Mass deportation is unworkable and if there was such an exit - it would resemble the holocaust - the Media would be out in force at every train station and bus terminal. Rioting and a breakdown of civil order.

Full employment for attorneys is the engine for INS and this Administration’s failures.

The first effort by the next POTUS should be securing the borders and then to identify all existing illegal residents when applying for work, hospital care, welfare and unemployment benefits.


59 posted on 11/23/2011 8:15:24 AM PST by sodpoodle ( Gingrich-Cain 2012)
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To: Jim Noble; heiss
Everything you say is true.

When are you going to demonstrate the feasibility of what you want by winning an election? You know, just one.


Well shoot, I guess we should just give up then, right?

I sure am glad the GOP did not give up trying to get control of the house after 40 years of Democrat control.
60 posted on 11/23/2011 8:16:44 AM PST by SoConPubbie
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To: heiss

The iimmigration laws and regulations are obsolete....however... Newt did address that these need to be streamlined and remove the obstacles so that what is there is ‘effective’..the key word being “effective”. As it now stands it’s dysfunctional in every way.


61 posted on 11/23/2011 8:16:44 AM PST by caww
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To: SuzyQue

This is the first comment I have posted in YEARS on FR - I just can’t stay silent on this one.

I support Newt 100% on this stance, and believe this position will work for him for two reasons. #1, Conservative Christians like myself are Christians first and foremost in their lives. It may not be the most conservative immigration position, but Newt’s plan is humane and it is not godly to tear families apart. You have to look at deportation on a case by case basis. #2, I truly think this stance will help him with other Christians and force them to look past his past marital problems, by seeing that he does have a heart after all. It has definitely warmed up my perception of him!


62 posted on 11/23/2011 8:19:05 AM PST by rocky88
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To: heiss
"Yeah, and we cannot go to moon either. This is BS."

Amen. Give me a RepubliCAN to vote for. Sick and tired of whiny RepubliCANTs who do nothing but beg for votes and campaign donations, then swear up and down that they're powerless to do anything about anything.

Root hog or die!

Oh, and Newt's plan stinks. So does Newt.
63 posted on 11/23/2011 8:19:13 AM PST by CowboyJay (Generic Republican - 2012. He's the only 'electable' candidate.)
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To: heiss

Think carefully about what Newt said. He said,

“Is it inhumane to deport an illegal immigrant who came to the United States 25 years ago,”

Why did he choose 25 years ago and not 20 or 30.

People assume that 25 years was just a number that Newt pulled out of his ass.

It is not.

Think back about about what happened 25 years ago.

That would be 1986.

That was the year Ronald Reagan’s bill gave amnesty to the then current residents in exchange for sealing the border.

The border wasn’t sealed and millions more Mexicans and other poured over the border.

The people who came after 1986 were illegal. But the people who came before 1986 were legalized if they bothered to come forward.


64 posted on 11/23/2011 8:19:37 AM PST by ckilmer (Phi)
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To: Lou Budvis
The deportation/forced emmigration of 12 million people would be the largest migration in human history. Not going to happen.

On what evidence do you say that? Operation Wet Back in 1954 got rid of 1 million illegals and most left just from the threat. We could easily do this again if the politicians were on board like the US citizens are.

65 posted on 11/23/2011 8:20:22 AM PST by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: heiss

Ok. So what would you do with the illegals who have been here 15, 20 or more years who have established themselves, bought homes, have careers, own businesses, paid taxes, raised children, have settled into this country and are no burden to the citizens of this nation? There is no way in hell they can be rounded up and sent back to wherever they came from. There has to be a line drawn on which illegals get to stay and the main issue should be: are they a burden upon the citizens of this country? And there must be enforcement of immigration laws. Stop the inflow of illegals. Otherwise, the problem will never be resolved. Anyone who says they should all be deported, jailed, shot or whatever is just not being realistic or honest about the matter. Newt and Perry are correct. Romney and Bachmann are hypocrites. They would not say what they would do with those here now.


66 posted on 11/23/2011 8:20:28 AM PST by Jukeman
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To: LuvFreeRepublic

This is an interesting vid.

I watched a couple of episodes of Texas Border War on Dsc. Apparently they have pulled the videos.

Guess Zero and Jan the Man didn’t like Dsc showing them during election season. Maybe Newt and Romney should be forced to watch it.

http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/texas-drug-wars-sneak-peek.html


67 posted on 11/23/2011 8:21:16 AM PST by marty60
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To: marty60

Thanks for posting that video.

Rick Perry gets it!


68 posted on 11/23/2011 8:21:28 AM PST by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
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To: Jim Noble

How did it go with Mr. Amnesty himself, Jose McCain? He won by landslide?

So you are openly saying that winning elections is all that matters. Heck, why not just go demanding that minimum wage is $500, every family gets a free house and every illegal on the planet can come here? Maybe 100M new illegalos will vote for us then.

We have principles and we can argue our positions (rule of law being one of them). Reagan didn’t accept your pessimistic view. He had his views and he defended them and Americans accepted those. He won them over.

Besides, majority of americans oppose illegal immigration. It is only our RINO elite and dems looking for cheap labor or cheap votes.


69 posted on 11/23/2011 8:21:41 AM PST by heiss (heartless)
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To: rocky88

“not godly to tear families apart”

Nobody is demanding families to be torn apart. Anybody is free to follow illegals where ever they go.


70 posted on 11/23/2011 8:22:59 AM PST by heiss (heartless)
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To: Lady Lucky
given the fact that they’ve been law-abiding citizens for 25 years.

And there's the fatal flaw of Newt's "argument."

71 posted on 11/23/2011 8:23:27 AM PST by M. Thatcher
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To: cva66snipe

Very well said.


72 posted on 11/23/2011 8:23:42 AM PST by SuzyQue
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To: SoConPubbie
Hiding behind the current process isn't going to get it done.
That's an excuse, not a reason.
Laws are made to be changed, especially when they are wrong.

Well said - right to the point.

Hanky wringing is the refuge of those who won't fight for the constitution and the nation.


73 posted on 11/23/2011 8:24:29 AM PST by Iron Munro (Ben Raines For President)
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To: caww
Hey, Newt; I do believe if someone has illegally broken into a country for a long time, stolen the ID's of residents, evaded taxation and stolen facilities that are intended only for residents, then they are a felon. Also Newt, I don't not believe in pardoning felons, I believe in convicting felons. We don't give a Mulligan to a bank robber or a mugger.
74 posted on 11/23/2011 8:26:36 AM PST by pyx (Rule#1.The LEFT lies.Rule#2.See Rule#1. IF THE LEFT CONTROLS THE LANGUAGE, IT CONTROLS THE ARGUMENT.)
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To: SoConPubbie; MNJohnnie; heiss
Well shoot, I guess we should just give up then, right?

No, not at all.

Look, I'm very sympathetic. Up here, the only time we see an illegal alien is if some Quebecker who has overstayed gets drunk and we trip over him passed out.

But in the most important election in my lifetime, when getting rid of Obama is the main issue, it's very reasonable to ask you and the others for whom this is issue #1 to demonstrate to the rest of us that taking your position on immigration is not a guaranteed loser for a candidate.

I say it is. I say no one has won, and many have lost, elections by taking the hard restrictionist position that you favor.

I say that if a candidate who could otherwise beat Obama takes your position, he will lose.

If you can prove me wrong, great. Try your best.

I don't think you can do it. You sure can't do it by calling me names.

75 posted on 11/23/2011 8:28:07 AM PST by Jim Noble (To live peacefully with credit-based consumption and fiat money, men would have to be angels.)
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To: M. Thatcher

I agree on this point, he should have said “otherwise law-abiding” or “like law-abiding citizens.”

Technically they are breaking the law every day they are here illegally. I don’t like hearing it glossed over, even if he does have but a 30-second window to speak.

However, many (e.g., many wives and children) may have had no practical alternative but to come here when commanded by the head of their household.

I think if welfare recipients can be reviewed for workfare fitness on a case-by-case basis, illegal residents can also. And it would probably be better if this were done by the state rather than the federal government; indeed the welfare/workfare requirements are applied on a county level in my state. But certainly it is feasible and the alternative of mass deportation is not.


76 posted on 11/23/2011 8:33:36 AM PST by Lady Lucky
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To: heiss
So you are openly saying that winning elections is all that matters

I am openly saying that winning the November 2012 Presidential election, if the Democratic nominee is Barack Obama, is more important that your position on illegal immigration.

Besides, majority of americans oppose illegal immigration

In the abstract, they do. If they favored doing anything about it, I imagine the electoral record would look very different.

It is only our RINO elite and dems looking for cheap labor or cheap votes

It's mostly Republicans who are looking for the cheap labor, and that coalition you described is a fairly robust majority of the voting population.

77 posted on 11/23/2011 8:36:00 AM PST by Jim Noble (To live peacefully with credit-based consumption and fiat money, men would have to be angels.)
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To: heiss

Newt’s plan is not amnesty, he clearly said illegals would not get citizenship, but they would get “residence rights.” There are many bad illegals, believe me, I know, and they need to be deported - but it is not reasonable (or Christian) to just make a decision to deport millions of people after some have made a life here for decades.


78 posted on 11/23/2011 8:36:12 AM PST by rocky88
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To: heiss

The SCOTUS has already held that illegals cannot be denied emergency care.


79 posted on 11/23/2011 8:37:20 AM PST by Lou Budvis
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To: Lou Budvis

Maybe, but they can be identified and hence, deported afterwards.

Non-emergency care msy be denied for anybody.


80 posted on 11/23/2011 8:39:32 AM PST by heiss (heartless)
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To: Iron Munro
Laws are made to be changed, especially when they are wrong. Well said - right to the point. Hanky wringing is the refuge of those who won't fight for the constitution and the nation.

To change laws, you have to elect a majority in a legislative body.

Why do you think you have not been able to do this? Why isn't Tom Tancredo or Duncan Hunter President? Why isn't JD Hayworth a US Senator from Arizona?

It's not because you can't argue your point well, or because you aren't clear about what you want.

It's because your position is unpopular, and is electoral death for candidates who adopt it.

81 posted on 11/23/2011 8:40:26 AM PST by Jim Noble (To live peacefully with credit-based consumption and fiat money, men would have to be angels.)
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To: heiss
Maybe, but they can be identified and hence, deported afterwards

Do you know what happens when you call INS, or whatever they call it now, and report an illegal?

82 posted on 11/23/2011 8:41:46 AM PST by Jim Noble (To live peacefully with credit-based consumption and fiat money, men would have to be angels.)
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To: heiss
Missed the debate because of wrestling practice, but it’s hardly surprising that Newt would support amnesty for illegal aliens

Newt did not support amnesty. He did say to provide a pathway to legal if they have been here for many years, have a family, paid taxes, etc, that he could see a way to keep them here. He did say that illegals should be deported.

83 posted on 11/23/2011 8:41:55 AM PST by Logical me
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To: Lady Lucky
many (e.g., many wives and children) may have had no practical alternative but to come here when commanded by the head of their household.

Pap. Substitute ANY other country here. "My husband 'commanded' me to come to Bermuda illegally, so the Bermuda government better damn well embrace my arrival and continued residence." Pffft.

I'd be thrown out on my ass, as would said 'commandant' husband, and rightly so.

84 posted on 11/23/2011 8:42:26 AM PST by M. Thatcher
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To: Lou Budvis

No it won’t. Another “Trail of Tears”. not going to happen.


85 posted on 11/23/2011 8:42:49 AM PST by annieokie
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To: Lady Lucky
Let me show you the pertinent pull quote that everyone is ignoring.

“So I think you’ve got to deal with this as a comprehensive approach that starts with controlling the border, as the governor said. I believe ultimately you have to find some system — once you’ve put every piece in place, which includes the guest worker program,........”

1. CONTROL THE BORDER. In case you didn't notice, this is NUMBER ONE.

2. Guest worker program.

3. THEN, he talks about a way to deal with long time residents with ties, jobs, families, on a case by case basis, to remain here legally SHORT OF CITIZENSHIP.

We are NEVER going to deport all illegal aliens, nor should we. It's not practical, humane, nor even possible. To have the opinion that we just kick out ALL illegals, is just plain IGNORANT. Discussion with anyone with that opinion is like having a discussion with the “Flat Earth Society”.

You can't judge Newt with soundbites. You need to listen to his complete answers.

86 posted on 11/23/2011 8:43:41 AM PST by faucetman (Just the facts ma'am, just the facts)
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To: marty60

If you go to the Border Security sites you REALLY see the warzone and the hoards of illegals coming over...you also learn that our guys hands are tied more times than not.


87 posted on 11/23/2011 8:45:07 AM PST by caww
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To: Lou Budvis
Enforce the existing laws and they will self-deport.

If they aren't being supported by the nanny state programs they will eat better in Mexico.

And perhaps if most of them went back, they would be inspired to fight the corruption in their own country and lift it out of third world status, instead of bring the USA down to that level.

88 posted on 11/23/2011 8:46:31 AM PST by Syncro (Sarah Palin, the unofficial Tea Party candidate for president--Virtual Jerusalem)
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To: Jukeman

If we stopped all services save life and death care to illegals, as well as fining employees and daily enforcing it, most illegals would self-deport. Families or not. Most are here for the freebies and jobs.

Now, if your wonderful illegal is seriously no burden on the taxpayers or job seekers, he will stay. Say, if he has a company himself and his kids all speak English and he pays for his own needs. He won’t self deport.

But all the freeloaders will.

Never abandon the good because it isn’t the perfect. Newt’s plan is amnesty. Central Americans know that all you have to do is to get here and lay low. Eventually you will be allowed to stay. Newt’s idea encourages everyone who’s not here to get here. Newts idea lets countries like Mexico just outsource their poverty. It’s wrong.


89 posted on 11/23/2011 8:48:37 AM PST by Yaelle (Herman Cain: the clever conservative with cojones.)
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To: heiss
Newt and Global Warming? Newt does not support cap nad trade in fact opposes it greatly and did so before the energy committee...as well against what Al Gores claims are. Further many changed their position once the e-mails of bogus science were realeased...and guess what today we can read more of these were realeased.

What Newt wants is to settle the issue...open discussion which yp to now has been impossible beacuse of the push for cap and trade on an International level. He's opposing that but still wants it open for conversation and debate to settle matter...I agree.

90 posted on 11/23/2011 8:49:25 AM PST by caww
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To: Jukeman
Sure it can be handled. Deport the illegal parents no matter how long they have been here. Now if as you say they have been here 20 years and have grown adult kids born here {proof required} then allow the ones born here to stay but the parents leave. Yes it can and it must be done. Don't tell me it can't be done. There are certain things having no statute of limitations and this is one of them. As an illegal invader they willingly, knowingly, and with disregard for our nations laws got them here to start with.

BTW what about the living here 20 something years who still demand government print paperwork in Spanish? What about second generation grown up who still no speak English? We paid for their education remember that? The parents didn't come here to become Americans they came here too be illegals working in the USA UNDER THE TABLE taking benefits while doing so and if they get caught or in legal trouble they do one of several things like go back home till the heat is off, or move to another state with new someone else STOLLEN I.D. and right back in.

Can you or I do this and avoid jail? No we can't live without a trace number so why are you wanting to enable them too do what we can't? If I did the things illegals do including signing official papers under penalty of perjury with false information I'd be under the jail.

91 posted on 11/23/2011 8:49:49 AM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Lady Lucky
Thank you Lucky Lady. Newt is right on. If we are real Americans with compassion we can see what Newt was saying. Mexico is rotten to the core with corruption and murder. I would try to escape too and to wait for legal immigration would be a death sentence.

I totally support Newt for President. I cannot believe some of the comments from some of the posters. Some seem to live in a cocoon of stupidity.

92 posted on 11/23/2011 8:51:21 AM PST by Logical me
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To: G Larry

I heard him say “pro family” policies cannot separate families. A straw man; when the person is deported, he takes his anchor babies with him.


93 posted on 11/23/2011 8:53:16 AM PST by DLfromthedesert ( Honkies for Herman 2012)
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To: rocky88

You should post more often. Your clarity and common sense are needed here on FR to help dilute the Knee JERK reactions of others.


94 posted on 11/23/2011 8:53:35 AM PST by faucetman (Just the facts ma'am, just the facts)
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To: Logical me

and a “cone of stupidity” as well.


95 posted on 11/23/2011 8:55:29 AM PST by faucetman (Just the facts ma'am, just the facts)
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To: Lady Lucky

It’s a choice to be separated from family; take your anchor babies, and leave.....family remains intact.


96 posted on 11/23/2011 8:57:01 AM PST by DLfromthedesert ( Honkies for Herman 2012)
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To: cva66snipe
There are certain things having no statute of limitations and this is one of them

Can you post a reference?

I pulled the relevant USC this morning, and it said ten years except for fraud, which is seven.

97 posted on 11/23/2011 8:58:50 AM PST by Jim Noble (To live peacefully with credit-based consumption and fiat money, men would have to be angels.)
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To: cva66snipe

If they support themselves, they stay. If not they go, no matter how long they have been here.


98 posted on 11/23/2011 9:02:42 AM PST by Jukeman
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To: Jim Noble

Governor Jan Brewer!!!!! She kicked butt!!


99 posted on 11/23/2011 9:03:28 AM PST by DLfromthedesert ( Honkies for Herman 2012)
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To: heiss

Newt is to the left of Perry on this. I wonder how Newt feels about his global warming nonsense in light of the latest tranche of emails that has emerged...

I wish DeMint were running.


100 posted on 11/23/2011 9:04:52 AM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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