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Senators Demand the Military Lock Up American Citizens in a “Battlefield”
ACLU Blog ^ | 11/23/2011 | Chris Anders

Posted on 11/26/2011 7:27:46 AM PST by autumnraine

While nearly all Americans head to family and friends to celebrate Thanksgiving, the Senate is gearing up for a vote on Monday or Tuesday that goes to the very heart of who we are as Americans. The Senate will be voting on a bill that will direct American military resources not at an enemy shooting at our military in a war zone, but at American citizens and other civilians far from any battlefield — even people in the United States itself.

Senators need to hear from you, on whether you think your front yard is part of a “battlefield” and if any president can send the military anywhere in the world to imprison civilians without charge or trial.

The Senate is going to vote on whether Congress will give this president—and every future president — the power to order the military to pick up and imprison without charge or trial civilians anywhere in the world. Even Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) raised his concerns about the NDAA detention provisions during last night’s Republican debate. The power is so broad that even U.S. citizens could be swept up by the military and the military could be used far from any battlefield, even within the United States itself.

(Excerpt) Read more at aclu.org ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: aclu; carlevin; carllevin; defauthorization; lindseygraham; mccain; mccainbill; possecomitatus
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I am loathe to post the ACLU, but this is concerning. Why won't they specify to exclude the US Homeland? Isn't this a violation of Posse Comitatus? For that matter, indefinitely imprisoning US citizens? I don't care if they are fighting with Al Queada, we all know how this can be abused. What say you fellow Freepers?
1 posted on 11/26/2011 7:27:55 AM PST by autumnraine
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To: autumnraine

Oh, and it was drafted in secret by McCain and a Democrat.


2 posted on 11/26/2011 7:28:56 AM PST by autumnraine (America how long will you be so deaf and dumb to the tumbril wheels carrying you to the guillotine?)
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To: autumnraine

This is a piece of crap legislation. It’s time to contact those idiots in Washington. I think they’re running scared of this election...


3 posted on 11/26/2011 7:32:39 AM PST by bcsco (A vote for Cain will cure the Pain!)
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To: autumnraine

So it was drafted by TWO democrats.
Sorry, but the abuse this could mean would lead to SS style” Fog And Mist” arrests.
This power should not be in the hands of political thugs and tyrants.
Never thought I would type this,but Thumbs up to the ACLU...


4 posted on 11/26/2011 7:34:30 AM PST by Yorlik803 (better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)
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To: autumnraine

Obama Justifies imprisonment of civilians as they may be a threat!

OBAMA RULE OF LAW: PROLONGED PREVENTATIVE INCARCERATION -DETENTION

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mPZlysCAm0&feature=email


5 posted on 11/26/2011 7:37:48 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: autumnraine

ACLU, I’ll look somewhere else for a definition of an American, if you don’t mind.


6 posted on 11/26/2011 7:39:19 AM PST by skeeter
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To: autumnraine

It’s getting close to the point where We The People need to start planning to cast off this current “government” and reassert OUR power over them.


7 posted on 11/26/2011 7:41:31 AM PST by Howie66 (I can see November (2012) from my house.)
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To: skeeter

Hey, feel how you want about them. Just understand the legislation that is the issue.


8 posted on 11/26/2011 7:41:43 AM PST by autumnraine (America how long will you be so deaf and dumb to the tumbril wheels carrying you to the guillotine?)
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To: autumnraine
But the legislation is worrisome. Maybe a better answer is become more circumspect about who we allow in to the US.

But the ACLU won't like that option, either.

9 posted on 11/26/2011 7:43:59 AM PST by skeeter
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To: Yorlik803

"Tea party activists confronted Barack Obama in Decorah, Iowa during one of his stops on his Magical Mysery Tour. The tea party activists asked Obama about Joe Biden’s comments that tea partiers were “terrorists.” Obama refused to answer the question."

PREVENTATIVE INCARCERATION

10 posted on 11/26/2011 7:46:45 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: bcsco

“I think they’re running scared of this election...”

They are running scared of the guillotine.


11 posted on 11/26/2011 7:49:25 AM PST by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: LucyT; autumnraine
Ping

Isn't this a violation of Posse Comitatus?

Oh, and it was drafted in secret by McCain and a Democrat. (Post #2)

12 posted on 11/26/2011 7:50:31 AM PST by thouworm (.)
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To: autumnraine

“Oh, and it was drafted in secret by McCain and a Democrat.”

You mean a pair of RATs, then.


13 posted on 11/26/2011 7:50:39 AM PST by Howie66 (I can see November (2012) from my house.)
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To: KeyLargo

Could also be “Being held for corrective measures”
Or “Re-education”.
Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and a host of other tyrants have used such things to keep the people from protesting or voiceing opposing view points.
Obama and his minions would love to have this tool....


14 posted on 11/26/2011 7:51:38 AM PST by Yorlik803 (better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)
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To: thouworm

HR 1388 Creates the Obama “Brown Shirts” Civilian Army; Google suppresses searches and videos

http://james4america.wordpress.com/2009/03/17/hr-1388-creates-the-obama-brown-shirts-civilian-army-google-suppresses-searches-and-videos/


15 posted on 11/26/2011 7:52:08 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: autumnraine

God forbid the Alabama Hghwy Patrol lock up an illegal!!!


16 posted on 11/26/2011 7:53:22 AM PST by mo
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To: Yorlik803
Obama wants to keep people in prison indefinitely for future crimes!
17 posted on 11/26/2011 7:59:27 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: autumnraine
In support of this harmful bill, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) explained that the bill will “basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield” and people can be imprisoned without charge or trial “American citizen or not.” Another supporter, Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.) also declared that the bill is needed because “America is part of the battlefield.”

whiskey tango foxtrot ?

18 posted on 11/26/2011 7:59:47 AM PST by NonValueAdded (At 4 AM, it is a test; at 2 PM, it is a demonstration)
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To: autumnraine

I just watched a movie a couple of nights ago ( from Redbox) called “Sarah’s Key” that should be watched by all FReepers, Americans, and French citizens. It’s about the active, deliberate participation of the French (occupied) government in the NAZI Holocaust (1942), by arresting and transporting to Germany of 76000 Jews, FROM PARIS.


19 posted on 11/26/2011 8:01:01 AM PST by matthew fuller (I stand with Leroy!)
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To: Yorlik803

From a different article: McCain and Levin where the sponsors.
“The worldwide indefinite detention without charge or trial provision is in S. 1867, the National Defense Authorization Act bill, which will be on the Senate floor on Monday. The bill was drafted in secret by Sens. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) and passed in a closed-door committee meeting, without even a single hearing.”


20 posted on 11/26/2011 8:02:51 AM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: autumnraine

Everything is tied to the presidential election. If the dems believe they’re going to lose big time, Obama can declare martial law by one of his executive orders, postpone elections, and then say he saved the US. Think occupiers smashing windows and burning cars from sea to shining sea, all at the behest of Obama. Soros, unions, dems, MSM, they won’t leave a stone unturned in an effort to steal that election. If you think this is impossible, where have you been the past three years.


21 posted on 11/26/2011 8:02:57 AM PST by hershey
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To: Howie66

that’s what this legislation is about, the elites in DC know we the people have had enough of their corruption at our expense


22 posted on 11/26/2011 8:03:14 AM PST by drypowder
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To: autumnraine

Agreed. While I loathe the ACLU, I find myself increasingly siding with them on a lot of things.

This is bi-partisan police state bs!


23 posted on 11/26/2011 8:04:18 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: autumnraine
READ THE BILL:

SEC. 1032. REQUIREMENT FOR MILITARY CUSTODY.

(a) Custody Pending Disposition Under Law of War-

(1) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in paragraph (4), the Armed Forces of the United States shall hold a person described in paragraph (2) who is captured in the course of hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40) in military custody pending disposition under the law of war.

(2) COVERED PERSONS- The requirement in paragraph (1) shall apply to any person whose detention is authorized under section 1031 who is determined--

(A) to be a member of, or part of, al-Qaeda or an associated force that acts in coordination with or pursuant to the direction of al-Qaeda; and

(B) to have participated in the course of planning or carrying out an attack or attempted attack against the United States or its coalition partners.

... snip ...

(b) Applicability to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident Aliens-

(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States

(2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.

The way I read this, American citizens and legal aliens are specifically exempted from the requirement to detain enemy combatants. So, can someone explain to me why there is cause for concern?

24 posted on 11/26/2011 8:07:09 AM PST by GenXFreedomFighter
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To: hershey

There is a thread here from SSI about how federal agents have basically infiltrated every rightwing group in this country.

Some believe the agents can steer these groups away from acts of violence or towards acts of violence.

Imagine another Oklahoma City Bombing scenario tied to a right-wing group (which will be linked to the Tea Party, of course)and Obama’s ability to use this new power to lock them up.


25 posted on 11/26/2011 8:12:17 AM PST by Erik Latranyi
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To: autumnraine
I've been searching for an alternative source for this report from a reputable, sane webpage and can find none . . . lots of OWS, Paul, DU, conspiracy sources, but nothing from the sane side of the net.

I think I'll wait for calmer, less emotional, more reliable sources to discuss this.

Wake me when the Heritage Foundation, Michelle Malkin, National Review, or one of the more mainstream, conservative sites mentions this before I over-react.
26 posted on 11/26/2011 8:15:04 AM PST by Sudetenland (There can be no freedom without God--What man gives, man can take away.)
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To: autumnraine

I don’t care if they are fighting with Al Queada, we all know how this can be abused.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Well, I have always contended that people such as the ‘American Taliban’ early on in these conflicts, should have been turned over to our ‘ally’ in the particular skirmish. Once one fires on US troops, knowingly or unknowingly, especially in a hot zone, they become fair game.
If these recent three students were indeed throwing fire bombs at either side they should remain there to ‘face the music’ of no matter who they had a gripe with.

There has been a lot of ‘hand wringing’ around here about the audacity of the Iranians ‘detaining’ US CIA Operatives.
Sorry, but they knew the risks when they signed on and we also have a tendency to arrest and, in some cases, execute, spies for a foreign nation in this country.

Used to be a saying back in the ‘day’ that “Every time Russia arrests an American for spying, America arrests 5 Americans for spying”....


27 posted on 11/26/2011 8:19:52 AM PST by xrmusn ((6/98) If govt involved, the more outlandish a scheme appears, the truer it probably is.)
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To: autumnraine

I say they are almost all globalists who will say and do anything to stay on the gravy train as well as have a seat at the table when it all crashes down.


28 posted on 11/26/2011 8:26:44 AM PST by winodog
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To: drypowder

I have news for them. They are on the verge of pushing us too far.


29 posted on 11/26/2011 8:27:47 AM PST by Howie66 (I can see November (2012) from my house.)
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To: autumnraine

John McCain is a lying traitor.

And anyone that thinks Romney wouldn’t go along with all of this is on acid.


30 posted on 11/26/2011 8:33:59 AM PST by ChildOfThe60s ( If you can remember the 60s....you weren't really there)
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To: Howie66

More likely we need to raise up a people’s militia to do hand to hand combat in the streets with those who would attack and destroy our government. Sure can’t expect Obama and his running dog lackeys to defend our system.


31 posted on 11/26/2011 8:34:00 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: autumnraine
I had to look up Posse Comitatus. I was pretty sure I knew what it was. This is from Wikipedia:

The Posse Comitatus Act is an often misunderstood and misquoted United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385 ) passed on June 18, 1878, after the end of Reconstruction. Its intent (in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807) was to limit the powers of local governments and law enforcement agencies from using federal military personnel to enforce the laws of the land. Contrary to popular belief, the Act does not prohibit members of the Army from exercising nominally state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order"; it simply requires that any orders to do so must originate with the United States Constitution or Act of Congress.

The statute only directly addresses the US Army (and is understood to equally apply to the US Air Force as a derivative of the US Army); it does not reference, and thus does not implicitly apply to nor restrict units of the National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States. The Navy and Marine Corps are prohibited by a Department of Defense directive, not by the Act itself.[1][2] The Coast Guard, under the Department of Homeland Security, is exempt from the Act.

If this Wiki article is accurate, then Posse Comitatus provides for Congressional overrides. Is that correct, and if so why would this bill be a violation?

Now that part of imprisoning citizens without charge or trial would be a clear violation of numerous Constitutional protections in my untrained mind.

I strongly dislike what I'm reading about this bill. Please comment.


32 posted on 11/26/2011 8:34:30 AM PST by gitmo (Hatred of those who think differently is the left's unifying principle.-Ralph Peters NY Post)
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To: gitmo

I’m no legal scholar, that is exactly why I posted it. To get the minds of you guys to help me out.


33 posted on 11/26/2011 8:36:58 AM PST by autumnraine (America how long will you be so deaf and dumb to the tumbril wheels carrying you to the guillotine?)
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To: autumnraine

This ones for you patriots


34 posted on 11/26/2011 8:44:07 AM PST by ronnie raygun (V)
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To: ronnie raygun

What concerns me is the fact that an Amendment is being proposed to “exempt” U.S. Citizens on U.S. Soil from this Bill:

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/your-front-yard-is-a-battlefield-senate-to-vote-on-legislation-that-allows-u-s-military-to-detain-citizens-without-charge-or-trial_112011

“But there is a way to stop this dangerous legislation. Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.) is offering the Udall Amendment that will delete the harmful provisions and replace them with a requirement for an orderly Congressional review of detention power. The Udall Amendment will make sure that the bill matches up with American values.

In support of this harmful bill, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) explained that the bill will “basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield” and people can be imprisoned without charge or trial “American citizen or not.” Another supporter, Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.) also declared that the bill is needed because “America is part of the battlefield.”


1. If the Legislation is so dangerous, why pass it in the first place?
2. How are we supposed to read the 678 page pdf and decipher the entire thing in the few days provided to form an opinion?

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=s%201867%20%22national%20defense%20authorization%20act%20%22&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCsQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gpo.gov%2Ffdsys%2Fpkg%2FBILLS-112s1867pcs%2Fpdf%2FBILLS-112s1867pcs.pdf&ei=4iLQTqqyNYjo2gW5z_W_Dw&usg=AFQjCNGnu8a63PkbLr6qgYO2Kmma3w6soA&cad=rja

...smells bad. Does not pass the “stink” test of common sense.


35 posted on 11/26/2011 9:07:21 AM PST by NoNAIS (Yet another Government program not needed.)
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To: Howie66

At the risk of sounding tin foil hat-ish, I believe this indicates a concern on their part that the American people are getting closer to a tipping point.

IMO, the size and strength of TEA Party types is alarming them. This bill is intended for us, not for terrorists or enemy combatants outside the US.

This portends very bad things for this country in the *near* future. Do not automatically assume the the 2012 elections taking place is a given.


36 posted on 11/26/2011 9:09:53 AM PST by ChildOfThe60s ( If you can remember the 60s....you weren't really there)
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To: GenXFreedomFighter

My instincts were correct - if the ACLU is against it it must have some redeeming qualities.


37 posted on 11/26/2011 9:32:01 AM PST by skeeter
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To: thouworm; Berlin_Freeper; Hotlanta Mike; Silentgypsy; repubmom; HANG THE EXPENSE; Nepeta; ...
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

. . . . Red Alert.

Article, then comments # 1 through # 36 .

Thanks thouworm.

38 posted on 11/26/2011 9:43:42 AM PST by LucyT
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To: autumnraine
Why won't they specify to exclude the US Homeland

American Citizens and Legal Residents are specifically excluded.

39 posted on 11/26/2011 10:07:57 AM PST by Ajnin (Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnocet!)
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To: GenXFreedomFighter
The way I read this, American citizens and legal aliens are specifically exempted from the requirement to detain enemy combatants. So, can someone explain to me why there is cause for concern?

1) Slippery slope incrementalism. No matter what kind of power you give the federal government, they *never* stay within the original defined limits
2) Consider the source. These people are *not* trustworthy.

40 posted on 11/26/2011 10:10:37 AM PST by ChildOfThe60s ( If you can remember the 60s....you weren't really there)
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To: autumnraine

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1540


41 posted on 11/26/2011 10:12:47 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks autumnraine.
The Senate is going to vote on whether Congress will give this president -- and every future president -- the power to order the military to pick up and imprison without charge or trial civilians anywhere in the world.
comments, please.


42 posted on 11/26/2011 10:13:11 AM PST by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: GenXFreedomFighter

And it was voted on, and it is a 48 year old legislation that gets an appropriation every year with some amendments.


43 posted on 11/26/2011 10:14:56 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: LucyT

Whoops, thanks LucyT! [blush]


44 posted on 11/26/2011 10:15:33 AM PST by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: autumnraine
Oh, and it was drafted in secret by McCain and a Democrat.

Is there some way to kick McCain out of our party? God, I hope so...

45 posted on 11/26/2011 10:19:20 AM PST by GOPJ ( Democrats are the only reason to vote for Republicans.... Will Rogers)
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To: Sudetenland
Wake me when the Heritage Foundation, Michelle Malkin, National Review, or one of the more mainstream, conservative sites mentions this before I over-react.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Michele Malkin? Huh?...or...the other major conservative yappers?

Sorry! I don't trust them. Given their abysmal vetting of Obama’s eligibility, and ignoring his forgeries, fake social security numbers, failure to e-verify and other outrages, these people will be **worthless** in the face of true tyranny.

Count on it! When true tyranny comes to our nation Malkin, Rush, Hannity, Beck, Levin, Ingrham, Medved, and the rest, will sell their talents to the fascist oligarchy. They will lick the jack boots crushing our necks. Oh! And “Ditto” for our most highest ranking military officers. Forgery and identity theft is now part of their military code of honor and oath to defend the Constitution.

46 posted on 11/26/2011 10:42:42 AM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: matthew fuller
"...the active, deliberate participation of the French (occupied) government in the NAZI Holocaust..."

Sounds like an interesting film. I think that over 12,000 of the Jews deported from Paris were children. A bit over a year ago, I was in the Faubourg-Montmartre district of Paris. Near a synagogue, I saw a memorial plaque that made mention of that statistic.

47 posted on 11/26/2011 10:57:08 AM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: autumnraine

Excuse Me folks

But this is a Declaration of War on the American people, how can you see it any other way. This is the one bill that says screw the constitution, screw the American people, we will arrest you as we see fit or kill you without a trial or charges.

Here is the bill that just made all of us terrorists and declared war on each and everyone of us.

Get prepared here it comes.


48 posted on 11/26/2011 11:03:52 AM PST by ggwyo
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To: Charles Martel

It was a very interesting film- I never knew about French involvement in the holocaust, checked it on the internet, and found out that a French court confirmed this in 2009. Amazing what a “civilized” country can perpetuate on it’s own citizens. This atrocity was committed by the French Police against French citizens.


49 posted on 11/26/2011 11:12:55 AM PST by matthew fuller (I stand with Leroy!)
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To: autumnraine

Repealing the Patriot Act is a more urgent priority than repealing Obamacare, it would seem.


50 posted on 11/26/2011 11:14:21 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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