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MSNBC: Americans Just Donít Pay Enough Taxes Ė Period!
Newsbusters ^

Posted on 11/26/2011 12:04:58 PM PST by Sub-Driver

MSNBC: Americans Just Don’t Pay Enough Taxes – Period! By Noel Sheppard Created 11/26/2011 - 1:23pm

If you had the misfortune of watching Weekends with Alex Witt on MSNBC Saturday morning, you sadly were treated to four minutes of propaganda about how we Americans just don’t pay enough taxes – period!

CQ Roll Call’s David Hawkings was invited on to misinform the gullible about Americans’ tax rates being too low, corporations shirking their tax responsibilities, the poor paying more than conservatives contend, and, of course, the rich not paying their “fair share” (video follows with transcribed highlights and commentary):

“If you take all the taxes paid in the United States and you compared them against other countries, the U.S. overall taxes are the lowest as a percentage of the economy among developing countries,” said Hawkings. “About one out of every four dollars in the whole economy is paid in taxes. That’s lower than any other country in the developed world. In Denmark it’s as high as about 50 percent.”

I realize this might seem like an odd question, but what is the goal of a capitalist system? Is it for the citizens to pay the highest taxes possible or for them to build their own wealth?

If the goal is the former, I’d suggest even Denmark is failing: why stop at 50 percent?

But here in America, which was founded by former British citizens escaping the King’s confiscatory taxes, we have historically strived for the tax burden to be as low as possible, even as low as zero during peacetime.

Yet Hawkings seemed a bit confused about our tax history saying, “If you compare the U.S. taxes now to where they have been historically, lower than almost any year in recent memory. The income tax has been around for about a hundred years. For about half that time the tax rate has been higher than it is now for the top earners.”

Well, that means that half of those roughly 100 years, the tax rate for top earners has been lower. Now add the 100-plus years prior to that and taxes on the most successful are now actually higher than they’ve historically been.

Not surprisingly, such logic escaped Hawkings and Witt.

When the subject of what America’s poor pay in taxes surfaced, Hawkings said, “Conservatives point out that in fact as many as half of Americans in the last year paid no income taxes, no traditional IRS income taxes. But let’s remember that nine percent were unemployed, some are elderly and disabled, and almost all the rest of them pay those payroll tax deductions that we see in our paychecks that come out for Medicare and Social Security.”

Yes, but according to the Congressional Budget Office, in 2006, the bottom quintile in the nation paid just 0.8 percent of all federal taxes collected including income, payroll, excise, and corporate.

That’s right: the poorest 20 percent paid only 0.8 percent.

By contrast: the richest 20 percent paid 69.3 percent; the richest ten percent paid 55.4 percent; the richest 5 percent paid 44.7 percent, and; the richest one percent paid 28.3 percent.

Maybe more importantly, as can be plainly seen from the following CBO chart, what the poor have been paying has been declining since 1979 while what the upper-earners have contributed has steadily risen:

Not surprisingly, neither Hawkings nor Witt brought this up either.

But what did surface, of course, was the fiction that the rich just aren’t paying their “fair share.”

“Historically, the top one percent of Americans pay a big chunk of the taxes,” said Hawkings. “Conservatives say in fact they pay about a quarter of the taxes, but they make 40 percent of the money. That much is true, but again, like we were talking about a minute ago with the corporations, the rich have an enormous advantage in terms of their deductions. They can deduct their capital gains taxes, they can deduct charitable donations. They have a better job with their accountants and in some cases their own lobbyists keeping their tax rate low.”

Maybe so, but what Hawkings dishonestly ignored is that with all that, the rich still pay more as a percent of both taxable and adjusted gross income than lower wage earners.

The IRS tables for 2009 show folks making $200,000 or more paid between 26.3 and 28.6 percent of their taxable incomes. By contrast, those making less than $200,000 paid between 17.8 and 22.1 percent.

As such, the progressive nature of our tax code – meaning folks that make more pay more – is still quite intact in America despite the carping and whining of liberals about the rich not paying their “fair share.”

If only it were required that actual real tax percentages reported by CBO and the IRS be included in such discussions.

It would make it much more difficult for the Left to continually propagandize the nation about who is and who isn’t paying taxes.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: msnbc; pmsnbc; socialism; taxes
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1 posted on 11/26/2011 12:05:00 PM PST by Sub-Driver
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To: Sub-Driver
“If you take all the taxes paid in the United States and you compared them against other countries, the U.S. overall taxes are the lowest as a percentage of the economy among developing countries,” said Hawkings.

I consider that a plus. Obviously, Mr. "I'm a socialist but won't admit it" Hawkings thinks it not.

2 posted on 11/26/2011 12:08:12 PM PST by jeffc (Prayer. It's freedom of speech.)
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To: Sub-Driver

I agree ... all the freeloaders that don’t pay taxes should be. I for one am tired of the parasites


3 posted on 11/26/2011 12:09:48 PM PST by clamper1797 (Hoping to have some change left)
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To: Sub-Driver

I wonder if, when raising taxes, our representatives ever note that God only asks for 10%.


4 posted on 11/26/2011 12:10:12 PM PST by stansblugrassgrl (PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION!!! YEEEEEHAW!)
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To: Sub-Driver
“If you take all the taxes paid in the United States and you compared them against other countries, the U.S. overall taxes are the lowest as a percentage of the economy among developing countries,” said Hawkings. “About one out of every four dollars in the whole economy is paid in taxes. That’s lower than any other country in the developed world. In Denmark it’s as high as about 50 percent.”

I always chuckle when I hear nitwits complain that we're not like other countries. America didn't become exceptional by imitating Europe.

5 posted on 11/26/2011 12:13:39 PM PST by NittanyLion
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To: Sub-Driver

“Many Americans ARE STANDING IN A bucket trying to lift themselves UP by the handle”..

Others are laughing at them for doing this...


6 posted on 11/26/2011 12:22:33 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: clamper1797

The problem with so many people not paying federal taxes is that they don’ see big government as a threat, because they are getting all those services for free. HUD loans, FHA, federal money for schools, school lunches, local police equipment, 87 different job programs......are all fine because they don’t see the bill.


7 posted on 11/26/2011 12:23:53 PM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: clamper1797

The problem with so many people not paying federal taxes is that they don’ see big government as a threat, because they are getting all those services for free. HUD loans, FHA, federal money for schools, school lunches, local police equipment, 87 different job programs......are all fine because they don’t see the bill.


8 posted on 11/26/2011 12:23:55 PM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: clamper1797

The problem with so many people not paying federal taxes is that they don’ see big government as a threat, because they are getting all those services for free. HUD loans, FHA, federal money for schools, school lunches, local police equipment, 87 different job programs......are all fine because they don’t see the bill.


9 posted on 11/26/2011 12:23:58 PM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: Sub-Driver

The “progressive” income tax makes things progressively worse. In fact, the progressive tax rates are regressive when it comes to growing GDP. Since the income to the treasury increases as GDP increases “progressive” taxation is resulting in the opposite of its stated intent.


10 posted on 11/26/2011 12:25:09 PM PST by jdsteel (Give me freedom, not more government.)
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To: Sub-Driver

It never occurs to these IDIOTS that if you keep raising taxes, one day the productive are going to decide that work no longer makes sense. (See what happens then).

Perhaps this is why they love inflation so much as it is a hidden tax.


11 posted on 11/26/2011 12:25:42 PM PST by desertfreedom765
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To: Sub-Driver

I’ve always said that if there was a standard income tax of $500 a year for anyone who makes under $25,000 a year and one that was lower up to the amount where they do start to pay a percentage everyone would all of a sudden find a way to make it to the over $25K to beat the system.


12 posted on 11/26/2011 12:29:01 PM PST by chris_bdba
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To: jeffc

How has our economy fared against theirs over time, Hawkings?


13 posted on 11/26/2011 12:29:02 PM PST by A_Former_Democrat (There's nothing more hypocritical than a white liberal calling someone else a "bigot")
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To: Sub-Driver
I spent Thanksgiving with a number of relatives who were really hoping that the government would get smart and tax the bejeezus out of them.

There was also a general consensus that the "Bush tax cuts" are the whole reason this country is $15T in debt.

14 posted on 11/26/2011 12:29:13 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Roll the stone away, Let the guilty pay, It's Independence Day)
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To: jeffc
"If you take all the taxes paid in the United States and you compared them against other countries, the U.S. overall taxes are the lowest as a percentage of the economy ....

These types of statements are always apples to oranges comparisons. They don't include taxes at all levels, or the effect of federal mandates, which in the US are substantial and have the same effect as a tax but aren't counted as such.

15 posted on 11/26/2011 12:33:49 PM PST by Pearls Before Swine
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To: Sub-Driver
"the poor paying more than conservatives contend"

Those taxes that the poor "pay" are excise taxes (sales, liquor, gas, tobacco, etc.) and they receive "earned" income tax credits to pay offset the cost of said taxes.

But when the claims major corporations "pay no federal income taxes" why are corporations not credited for the taxes they pay locally, such as sales tax, employee tax, city tax, county taxes, state taxes, etc.

The left always wants it both ways.

16 posted on 11/26/2011 12:35:02 PM PST by Michael.SF. (When you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras.)
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To: Sub-Driver

see : Hauser’s Law


17 posted on 11/26/2011 12:36:58 PM PST by griswold3 (Character is Destiny)
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To: NittanyLion
In Denmark it’s as high as about 50 percent.”

Ah, so that's how Denmark became the economic powerhouse that it currently is.

18 posted on 11/26/2011 12:37:24 PM PST by Hoodat (Because they do not change, Therefore they do not fear God. -Psalm 55:19-)
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To: Pearls Before Swine
"They don't include taxes at all levels"

Absolutely right. Additionally they do not include that some things we pay on our own, such as 401K or other retirement funding, or our health care deductions, are not counted as "taxes". Europeans pay those items through there taxes, and thus are getting more for their money then we are.

19 posted on 11/26/2011 12:37:55 PM PST by Michael.SF. (When you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras.)
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To: Sub-Driver
paying taxes is VOLUNTARY! at least that's what the IRS says anyway...

so feel free to pay more if you don't think you are taxed enough already and STFU!!!

20 posted on 11/26/2011 12:43:53 PM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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