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Chaos: Pakistan wants U.S. drone base shut after NATO attack kills 26 Pakistani troops
Hotair ^ | 11/26/2011 | Allahpindit

Posted on 11/26/2011 5:57:40 PM PST by SeekAndFind

Such is the state of U.S./Pakistan relations that no one seems fully confident this was accidental. Is there another “alliance” in the world of which that could be said — where one country wipes out two dozen troops from the other and it’s not instantly clear it was a terrible miscalculation instead of a response to some shadowy provocation?

Is it “friendly fire” if the two sides aren’t really friendly?

“It seems quite extraordinary that we’d just nail these posts the way they say we did,” said one senior American official who was in close touch with American and NATO officials in Pakistan and Afghanistan early Saturday. “Whether they were going after people or whether there was some firing from the Afghan side of the border, then the Pakistan side, we just don’t know. It’s real murky right now. Clearly, something went very wrong.”

The American ambassador in Islamabad, Cameron Munter, called an emergency meeting and expressed regret over the Pakistani casualties. And Gen. John R. Allen, the commander of NATO-led forces in Afghanistan, offered condolences to families of the dead and promised an investigation. “This incident has my highest personal attention and my commitment to thoroughly investigate it to determine the facts,” he said in a statement.

The strikes, which Pakistani officials said had involved both helicopters and fighter jets, took place overnight at two military posts in Salala, a village in Pakistan’s Mohmand tribal region near the border with Kunar Province in Afghanistan. At least 40 soldiers were deployed at the posts, which according to Pakistani officials were established to repulse cross-border attacks by Afghan militants and the Taliban. Pakistani military officials said NATO aircraft had penetrated roughly a mile and a half into Pakistan to make the strikes.

If you’re thinking this might be a jihadi operation that Pakistan’s trying to pin on NATO, no dice: A NATO spokesman says it’s “highly likely” that coalition aircraft were responsible. (Why would the Taliban or the Haqqanis want to attack Pakistan at this point anyway?) As punishment for the incident, Pakistani leaders have cut supply lines into Afghanistan and ordered the U.S. to scram from its drone base in southern Pakistan within 15 days. And opposition leaders are already screaming about ending their “support” for the war on terror, so if you’re one of the many people who wonder what things in Afghanistan would look like without Pakistani “help,” good news — we might be about to find out.

I’ll give you three scenarios about what might have happened in the hope/expectation that knowledgeable readers will rule some out in the comments. One: Hot pursuit. NATO was chasing some jihadi outfit, they crossed the border, then we crossed the border after them. It’s happened before and Pakistani troops have ended up dead in the process. But not dozens of Pakistani troops; the sheer volume of casualties plus the fact that NATO surely knows there are checkpoints near the Durand Line makes it hard to understand how this was a case of mistaken identity. Maybe they killed some troops accidentally and then took fire from the others? Or maybe they took fire as soon as they crossed the border? Two: Deliberate targeting. The Times reported six weeks ago about the sustained escalation in mortar fire at American units from across the border in Pakistan. The troops interviewed for the piece made no bones about their belief that the Pakistani military was involved. Ten days after that story was published, the Pentagon made the charge formally. Maybe last night’s attack was NATO’s way of sending a message in the guise of a friendly fire incident. Problem is, doing it this visibly and spectacularly forces the Pakistani leadership to retaliate, as they’ve now done by revoking base rights. Would the White House really risk their drone program just to take out a few Pakistani troops for supporting jihadi mortar fire? Could be that the drone program’s been so successful that they were planning to wind it down anyway, just because there’s almost no one left to target. But Obama’s always preferred stealth operations to spectacles. If he wanted to send a message, he could do it without making Pakistan lose face.

Three: It really was a crazy accident. Gen. Allen met with Pakistani Gen. Kayani on Thursday, just one day before the incident, to discuss greater coordination. Less than a month ago, the White House decided that its (insane) new strategy in Afghanistan was to somehow convince Pakistan to bring the Taliban and the Haqqanis to the bargaining table for talks. If we’re still of the mind that Pakistani cooperation is essential to getting out of the war as quickly and cleanly as possible, mowing down their soldiers en masse seems … counterproductive. So yeah, it probably is an accident — assuming accidents on this scale are even possible. Any Air Force readers willing to weigh in? How likely is it that NATO jets and choppers might not recognize whom they’re engaging on the ground, even when they know there are “allied” checkpoints in the area?

TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: drones; economy; enemy; mutthamed; nato; oil; pakistan; pakitrash

1 posted on 11/26/2011 5:57:43 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Does Hallmark make a card for things like this?

2 posted on 11/26/2011 6:02:41 PM PST by tumblindice
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To: SeekAndFind

How about a radar directed strike against mortar fire which, oops, happened to be coming from the Pakistani base ?

3 posted on 11/26/2011 6:03:06 PM PST by dr_lew
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To: tumblindice

`We’re so very sorry for your loss,
We say that, man-to-man.
But it seems that very recently
We can’t tell you from the Taliban.’

4 posted on 11/26/2011 6:11:49 PM PST by tumblindice
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To: dr_lew

How about video proving that, do you have a link.

5 posted on 11/26/2011 6:15:01 PM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Newt, Willard, Perry and his fellow supporters.)
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To: tumblindice

Yeah, it reads....”This is Big Duke Six, clear the area I’m comin’ in myself. Don’t these people ever give up?”

6 posted on 11/26/2011 6:15:40 PM PST by bobby.223
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To: bobby.223

Nuke them from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.

7 posted on 11/26/2011 6:17:35 PM PST by tumblindice
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To: SeekAndFind
How about we pull every last US soldier out of there along with every last penny of US aid?

Seriously though, this is the usual posturing by the government there to assuage the populance. A few riots, a few attacks on Americans or American interests in Pakistan and this will soon be forgotten and the base will stay operational - or close in name only and remain operational.

8 posted on 11/26/2011 6:23:23 PM PST by ExpatCanuck
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To: SeekAndFind; All






Pam Gellar:
“All American Muslims” is an attempt to manipulate Americans into ignoring the threat of jihad and to bully them into thinking that being concerned about the jihad threat would somehow victimize these nice people in this show.

The problem people have with Islam is its teachings of violence against and the subjugation of unbelievers. It is with the supremacist ideology and the fervent believers in those noxious doctrines of warfare and subjugation. The ultimate danger posed by a program presenting the “normal” side of life for American Muslims is that it isn’t’t accurate.

The danger is in the deception and obfuscation of the truth which results in the intellectual disarming of the American people.”


Email TLC.



Get up a petition.

They will destroy all we have done to alert America to the danger of Islam

This atrocity MUST be stopped!


From ‘Bare naked Islam’

Here’s a simple email form to send: TLC SPONSOR LETTER


FACEBOOK Boycott TLC here: BoycottTLC


9 posted on 11/26/2011 6:26:04 PM PST by patriot08 (TEXAS GAL- born and bred and proud of it!)
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To: patriot08

Just for the record, I like the show. The folks in it are no threat to me.

10 posted on 11/26/2011 6:27:49 PM PST by sand lake bar (You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.)
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To: sand lake bar

Are you serious? You like the show!!?

11 posted on 11/26/2011 6:37:55 PM PST by bobby.223
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To: bobby.223

I did like the two shows I saw. I grew up in Dearborn and it seems pretty authentic.

12 posted on 11/26/2011 6:42:15 PM PST by sand lake bar (You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Theory #4: Our “allies” tried to ambush US troops and found out why that is a BAD idea!

13 posted on 11/26/2011 6:52:09 PM PST by piytar (The Obama Depression. Say it early, say it often. Why? Because it's TRUE.)
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To: SeekAndFind

You’re manning a Pakistani outpost on the Afghan border, when you spot some NATO helo gunships. Do you c) fire warning shots at them? (

14 posted on 11/26/2011 7:01:42 PM PST by SkyDancer ("If You Want To Learn To Love Better, You Should Start With A Friend Who You Hate")
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To: sand lake bar

The folks in it are no threat to you? You want to bet your life on that? If they are muslims following the koran and sharia they are 100% entitled and encouraged to deceive westerners by any and all means until the ‘time’ comes. The ‘fooled’ westerners are gonna be the first ones with their heads sawed off when the SHTF here. But then again....maybe you have another reason to be so trusting?

15 posted on 11/26/2011 7:27:11 PM PST by bobby.223
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To: sand lake bar

Just for the record, I like the show. The folks in it are no threat to me.


I cannot believe you said that.
‘All American Muslim’ is Muslim propaganda.
Islam is a threat to you and to all of us.

16 posted on 11/27/2011 4:14:45 AM PST by patriot08 (TEXAS GAL- born and bred and proud of it!)
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To: ExpatCanuck
Pakistan is the center of the jihad against the west. They have been for years.

Withdraw all aid? Hell yes, yesterday was not soon enough. But don't expect Hussein to do it. He is far too cozy with the moslems.

This "country" sheltered Bin Laden for years. They created the taliban. They are at war with us.

17 posted on 11/27/2011 5:08:55 AM PST by Former Proud Canadian (Obamanomics-We don't need your stinking tar sands oil, or the jobs that go with it.)
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To: patriot08

I’ve lived and worked among Muslims and Muslim Americans most of my life. My experience is that they reject fundamentalist extremism and love this country. Have there been exceptions? Sure, just as there are among any group. I grew up in Dearborn and the show does capture the town’s reality.

18 posted on 11/27/2011 7:12:09 AM PST by sand lake bar (You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.)
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To: bobby.223

OK, so what if they’re not “true Muslims” in your eyes? What if they are in fact “moderate” in their beliefs? Will you admit that they don’t deserve your attacks?

19 posted on 11/27/2011 7:21:39 AM PST by sand lake bar (You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.)
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To: patriot08

Ah, the Nick Berg approach to islam.

20 posted on 11/27/2011 12:26:30 PM PST by bayouranger (The 1st victim of islam is the person who practices the lie.)
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To: patriot08
Ah, the Nick Berg approach to islam.
21 posted on 11/27/2011 12:32:28 PM PST by bayouranger (The 1st victim of islam is the person who practices the lie.)
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To: sand lake bar; bayouranger; bobby.223; Former Proud Canadian; tumblindice

It is through naive people like you, sand lake bar, that Europe is allowing themselves to rapidly become Islamized. Countries have been overrun with Muslms who are destroying their culture and endangering their very lives.

For Muslims the Quran and the life of Mohammed are not 14 centuries old, but are an everyday reality, an ideal, that guide every aspect of their lives. Winston Churchill called Islam “the most retrograde force in the world”. He compared Mein Kampf to the Quran.

The Koran commands that Muslim fight until Islam rules the world. It commands that it is every Muslim's duty to make it so. Don't fool yourself. However they may act, whatever they may say or do, they're objective is to this end. Muslims are allowed to lie (Taqiyaa) to strengthen and spread Islam. (Koran 3:28, 16:106)

The apologists for Islamic terrorism try to draw attention to the "millions of moderate Muslims". But you cannot be a moderate Muslim any more than you can be a moderate member of the Klu Klux Kan, or the Nazi party. You cannot be a moderate member of a group with a belief system that is intrinsically extreme and intolerant. There are no moderate Muslims - just "good" Muslims who believe in world domination by the use of terrorism as ordained by the Koran.

Have you even READ the Koran? How can you sympathize with people who believe in such evil?

Koran is filled (80-90%) with hate for Christians, Jews and blacks. It instructs to kill and conquer them and take their lands and possessions. Muslims believe the Koran to be the perfect word of their god, Allah.

These are the verses that the Islamist terrorists us to justify their murders:


(The following are only a few of the verses commanding Muslims to fight)

WARFARE IS ORDAINED FOR YOU, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. (2.216)


If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom. 9:39

Believers must fight for Allah. They must kill and be killed , and are bound to do so by the Torah, Gospel, and Quran. But Allah will reward them for it. 9:111

Fight those among the People of the Book [i.e. Jews and Christians] ... who do not profess the true religion, until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued. (9.29)


(It is taught in textbooks in some Muslims countries today that Christians are monkeys and Jews are pigs)

Christians will be burned in the Fire. 5:72

Whoever says Muhammad was black must be killed…(Ash-Shifa, Tr. Aisha Abdarrahman, 2004)

Disbelievers’ faces will be black on the judgment day and they will receive God's penalty...3:106 White faces on the judgment day will receive God's mercy...3:107

Allah will reward the doers of good with paradise and much more, their faces will be radiant‑stained; they will never be humiliated. The unbelievers’ faces will be turned dark…10:26‑27

Ahmad ibn Abi Sulayman, the companion of Sahnun said, "Anyone who says that the Prophet was black should be killed. (ibid, p.375)

In one Hadith, Mohammed referred to Blacks as Raisn Heads (Sahih Al Bukhary vol. 1, no. 662 and vol. 9, no. 256), and as pug nosed slaves in Sahih Moslem vol. 9 pages 46 and 47.

Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. 5:73

Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to the rich and greedy Christian monks and Jewish rabbis.9:34

Jesus was not the Son of God. Those who say he was (Christians) are going to hell. 19:35-37

Scourge adulteresses with 100 stripes. Do not show them any pity. Have a party of believers watch the punishment. 24:2


Those who die fighting for Allah will go to heaven. 3:195 Those who make war with Allah and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom. 5:33 The transgressors will roast in the Fire and be forced to drink boiling liquids followed by ice cold drinks. 38:55-9


Sura 33 "And he bequeathed to you their lands, their homes and their possessions, together with land you have never trodden" (33.27) .


"Be patient with unbelievers until you have strength" (86.17).

THE KORAN INSTRUCTS MUSLIMS TO BE DECEPTIVE: Quran 3:28 Don't have unbelieving friends unless it is to deceive them. Remember the final goal is to Allah.


Allah’s law (Sharia) is binding to all…4:135

Allah accepts only Sharia and no other laws…7:29, 57:25

Allah is the Law-giver; He appointed Muhammad to implement the only correct laws (Sharia laws)…45:18



"ISLAM ISN'T IN AMERICA TO BE EQUAL TO ANY OTHER FAITH, BUT TO BECOME DOMINANT. The Koran ... should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth. Everthing we need to know is in the Koran. We don't need to look somewhere else."

OMAR M. AHMAD, CHAIRMAN OF CAIR,the mainsteam Muslim advocacy group.



"Every “moderate” Muslim is a potential terrorist. The belief in Islam is like a tank of gasoline. It looks innocuous, until it meets the fire. For a “moderate” Muslim to become a murderous jihadist, all it takes is a spark of faith.

It is time to put an end to the charade of “moderate Islam.” There is no such thing as moderate Muslim. Muslims are either jihadists or dormant jihadists – moderate, they are not."

Ali Sina

(former Muslim now helping to enlighten America about the danger of Islam)

Jihad Watch "Islam will rule the world" This was posted at Faith Freedom International. There is no doubt that it embodies the globalist, totalitarian vision of radical Islam -- as anyone who reads this site regularly can attest.

Constitution for the new Islamic Republic of USA is under construction.

We will fight infidel to death.

Meanwhile, American laws will protect us.

Democrats and Leftist will support us.

UNO will legitimize us.

CAIR will incubate us.

ACLU will empower us.

Western Universities will shelter us.

Hollywood will love us.

Our children will immigrate from Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Indonesia and even from India to the US for education in full scholarship. America is paying and will continue to pay for our children's educations and their upbringing in state funded Islamic schools.

We will use your welfare system. Our children will also send money home while they are preparing for Jihad.

We will take advantage of American kindness, gullibility, and compassion. When time comes we will stab them in the back to death. We will say one thing on the camera and teach another thing to our children at home. We will teach our children Islamic value from the very childhood. We will teach them not to compromise with Infidel. Once we do that from the very early age our children won't hesitate to be martyr. We will take over the Europe first and then US. We already have a solid ground in the UK, Holland, Sweden, Spain, Italy, Germany, and US.

Our children will marry Caucasian in Europe and in America. We will mixed with intricate fabric of the Western society but still will remember to Jihad when times come. We are called "sleeper cells". We will raise our children to be loyal to Islam and Mohammad.

At the time of the real fight we will hold our own children as our armor. When American or Israeli troops shoot at us the world will be watching. Imagine,... Imagine the news in the world /. Death of Muslim babies by infidels.

We know CNN, ABC, CBS are broadcasting live. Al-Jazeera will pour gasoline on the fire. The news will spread like wild fire. "Americans killed 6 babies, 10 babies". "Jews killed two women",

Visualize the news flash all over the world, ...Moslem mother is sobbing, ....crying. ....Her babies are killed by Jews and Americans, the whole world is watching live. Hundrends of millions of Muslims all around the world are boiling. They will march through Europe. We will use our women to produce more babies who will in turn be used as armor/shield. Our babies are the gift from Allah for Jihad.

West manufactures their tanks in the factory. We will manufacture our military force by natural means, by producing more babies. That is the way it is cheaper.

You infidels at this site cannot defeat us. We are 1.2 billion. We will double again. Do you have enough bullets to kill us?

On the camera: We will always say, "Islam is the religion of Piece." We will say, "Jihad is actually inner Jihad." There will be more 911 in Europe and in America. We will say, "We do not support terrorism but America got what it deserved."

Muslims, CAIR, ISNA and other international Islamic Organization will unite. We will partner with Leftist, ACLU, with Koffi Annan, and the UN, and if we have to then even with France. Fasten your seatbelt, war of civilizations has just begun.

We will use your own values of Kindness against you.

You are destined to loose.

Must be very depressing for you. Isn't it?



22 posted on 11/27/2011 2:12:03 PM PST by patriot08 (TEXAS GAL- born and bred and proud of it!)
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To: patriot08

You are immune to rational argument so I won’t waste many more words on you. But I’ll just ask you this: can you name any conservative candidate, can you name any well known conservative thinker at all who believes that all Muslims deserve the sort of bile you’re dishing out? Especially American Muslims?

There aren’t any. You’re on the fringe.

23 posted on 11/27/2011 5:15:57 PM PST by sand lake bar (You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.)
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To: patriot08

I would start with leaders who are aware of the threat that koranimals are to Western civilization.

Geert Wilders
Herman Cain
Allen West
Rick Womick
Gov Haslam
Even Newt understands that the moslem brotherhood is a jihadist organization & all of its’ members are supporters of jihad; every front group they use to fool naive Infidels/apologists must be labeled as such, terrorists. Any moslem that has given zakat knows that the money fuels jihad around the world & that’s the 6th pillar of islam.

Now if someone is ignorant that’s one thing, and they can quickly come to light but if one knows this obvious information..that’s aiding & abetting the enemies of the USA.

Toss them into the jail with the jihadist.

24 posted on 11/28/2011 5:35:06 AM PST by bayouranger (The 1st victim of islam is the person who practices the lie.)
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To: bayouranger

Thank you.
Don’t forget Rep. Sue Myrick

25 posted on 11/28/2011 7:08:45 AM PST by patriot08 (TEXAS GAL- born and bred and proud of it!)
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To: patriot08

Thinking too early & a lack of coffee makes bayouranger a dull boy.
Thinking too early & a lack of coffee makes bayouranger a dull boy.
Thinking too early & a lack of coffee makes bayouranger a dull boy.
Thinking too early & a lack of coffee makes bayouranger a dull boy.


26 posted on 11/28/2011 7:24:36 AM PST by bayouranger (The 1st victim of islam is the person who practices the lie.)
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