Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

SWAT team's shooting of Marine causes outrage [Jose Guerena Ortiz]
AP via Yahoo! News ^ | 11/27/11 | AMANDA LEE MYERS

Posted on 11/27/2011 2:17:58 PM PST by Slings and Arrows

TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) — Jose Guerena Ortiz was sleeping after an exhausting 12-hour night shift at a copper mine. His wife, Vanessa, had begun breakfast. Their 4-year-old son, Joel, asked to watch cartoons.

An ordinary morning was unfolding in the middle-class Tucson neighborhood — until an armored vehicle pulled into the family's driveway and men wearing heavy body armor and helmets climbed out, weapons ready.

They were a sheriff's department SWAT team who had come to execute a search warrant. But Vanessa Guerena insisted she had no idea, when she heard a "boom" and saw a dark-suited man pass by a window, that it was police outside her home. She shook her husband awake and told him someone was firing a gun outside.

A U.S. Marine veteran of the Iraq war, he was only trying to defend his family, she said, when he grabbed his own gun — an AR-15 assault rifle.

What happened next was captured on video after a member of the SWAT team activated a helmet-mounted camera.

The officers — four of whom carried .40-caliber handguns while another had an AR-15 — moved to the door, briefly sounding a siren, then shouting "Police!" in English and Spanish. With a thrust of a battering ram, they broke the door open. Eight seconds passed before they opened fire into the house.

And 10 seconds later, Guerena lay dying in a hallway 20-feet from the front door. The SWAT team fired 71 rounds, riddling his body 22 times, while his wife and child cowered in a closet.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: ortiz; policestate; prepare; socialism; starvethebeast; swatteam
Better late than never, I suppose.
1 posted on 11/27/2011 2:17:59 PM PST by Slings and Arrows
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Slings and Arrows

Why arrest him in his home? Why not at work, with a couple of detectives and handcuffs?

This is misuse of SWAT.

I have a solution to misuse of SWAT:

Each time it happens, fire the Chief of Police (or County Sheriff, whichever applies) and start over.

See how many times that’s done before they start using SWAT “only when really necessary”.

And BTW, I know it doesn’t apply in this case, but add this to the “misuse clause”: Got the wrong house.

Got the wrong house? — Fire the top man.
Used SWAT when a simple arrest would do? — Fire the top man.
Any other misuse of SWAT? — Fire the top man.


2 posted on 11/27/2011 2:33:22 PM PST by samtheman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Slings and Arrows
The SWAT Team is question was under the command of Clarence “The Clown” Dupnik.
3 posted on 11/27/2011 2:38:23 PM PST by bwc2221
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Slings and Arrows

Heads had better roll for this s**t.....but of course they won’t.


4 posted on 11/27/2011 2:46:55 PM PST by RightOnline
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Slings and Arrows
Maybe it's just me, but some of the "evidence" seems awfully dubious. He was stopped (a passenger) in a truck and there were commercial-size rolls of plastic wrap in the truck. It "can be" used to wrap marijuana for sale. If I'm not mistaken, it is sold places like Sam's and also "can be" used to cover food!

He "met with" someone who had just dropped off drugs in another location. I don't know about the rest of y'all on FR, but I can't absolutely vouch for every friend, acquaintance, and relative I have. It's possible that if I "meet with" them someplace, they have just left someplace else where they were participating in an illegal activity. If I accept a ride with one of them, I might also be, unknowingly, in the presence of contraband.

I'm betting there is still more to this story than they're telling.

5 posted on 11/27/2011 2:53:50 PM PST by susannah59
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Slings and Arrows

Horrible business. And Dupnik is a corrupt liberal idiot, as we saw with the Gabrielle Giffords business. But he comes from a corrupt, liberal city, where he has been repeatedly re-elected for some 35 years.

If this article is accurate, then they found absolutely no evidence at all of drug smuggling in the home. And they have no evidence whatever that Ortiz was involved with marijuana.

His cousin was evidently a user, and POSSIBLY his brother is a smuggler. Or possibly not, given who is making this case. So, why didn’t they go after his brother, if they have information against him?


6 posted on 11/27/2011 3:16:06 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cicero

Even if Ortiz was everything they said he was, because he had a regular job, the man had a schedule. It would have been easy to figure out when they could have picked him up with a carload of drugs or when he was with his homies.

It was obvious to me, by the lack of evidence, that the man was not using his home as a dropoff point, therefore there was nothing to gain from invading his home.


7 posted on 11/27/2011 3:25:09 PM PST by Jonty30 (If a person won't learn under the best of times, than he must learn under the worst of times.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Cicero

Even if Ortiz was everything they said he was, because he had a regular job, the man had a schedule. It would have been easy to figure out when they could have picked him up with a carload of drugs or when he was with his homies.

It was obvious to me, by the lack of evidence, that the man was not using his home as a dropoff point, therefore there was nothing to gain from invading his home.


8 posted on 11/27/2011 3:25:19 PM PST by Jonty30 (If a person won't learn under the best of times, than he must learn under the worst of times.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Cicero

Even if Ortiz was everything they said he was, because he had a regular job, the man had a schedule. It would have been easy to figure out when they could have picked him up with a carload of drugs or when he was with his homies.

It was obvious to me, by the lack of evidence, that the man was not using his home as a dropoff point, therefore there was nothing to gain from invading his home.


9 posted on 11/27/2011 3:25:59 PM PST by Jonty30 (If a person won't learn under the best of times, than he must learn under the worst of times.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Cicero

Even if Ortiz was everything they said he was, because he had a regular job, the man had a schedule. It would have been easy to figure out when they could have picked him up with a carload of drugs or when he was with his homies.

It was obvious to me, by the lack of evidence, that the man was not using his home as a dropoff point, therefore there was nothing to gain from invading his home.


10 posted on 11/27/2011 3:26:11 PM PST by Jonty30 (If a person won't learn under the best of times, than he must learn under the worst of times.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

You can say that again x 4!


11 posted on 11/27/2011 3:58:06 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Jack Hydrazine

I kept getting a service unavailable on my Blackberry.

When it finally posted, four times!


12 posted on 11/27/2011 4:03:25 PM PST by Jonty30 (If a person won't learn under the best of times, than he must learn under the worst of times.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: susannah59
Maybe it's just me, but some of the "evidence" seems awfully dubious.

Yep, and I like the paragraph that read..."Sheriff's Capt. Chris Nanos...said that high-powered rifles and bulletproof vests that were found in Guerena's home after the shooting back up investigators' belief that Guerena was involved in drug trafficking."

That's a dead giveaway, fer sure. No doubt, that would make a lot of Freepers "drug traffikers, too...".

13 posted on 11/27/2011 4:14:32 PM PST by moovova (Report my sarcastic, fear-mongering, hate-filled lies to www.AttackWatch.com by clicking HERE.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Jack Hydrazine

LOL we all have posting stutter today


14 posted on 11/27/2011 4:16:48 PM PST by goat granny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Jack Hydrazine

LOL we all have posting stutter today


15 posted on 11/27/2011 4:16:50 PM PST by goat granny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Jack Hydrazine

LOL we all have posting stutter today


16 posted on 11/27/2011 4:16:52 PM PST by goat granny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Jack Hydrazine

LOL we all have posting stutter today


17 posted on 11/27/2011 4:16:52 PM PST by goat granny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Jack Hydrazine

LOL we all have posting stutter today


18 posted on 11/27/2011 4:17:15 PM PST by goat granny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Jack Hydrazine

LOL we all have posting stutter today


19 posted on 11/27/2011 4:17:41 PM PST by goat granny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: samtheman

And cut off all federal funding to the local agency for five years.


20 posted on 11/27/2011 4:39:35 PM PST by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: goat granny

You can say that again! :-)


21 posted on 11/27/2011 4:40:26 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Slings and Arrows
The whole thing stinks and wreaks of cover up. Too many who knew the man have came forward and said he was likely not involved. That said I want too see Law Enforcement returned to some for of recognizable sanity.

For starters a place at least at minimum a two minute required knock {5 at night} with a loud speaker announcement every 30 seconds after the first minute before forced entry EXCEPT where there is obvious life endangerment inside such as hostages, someone being beat, shot, etc. ALL cops who are not detectives or undercover should wear their departments uniform and I include that uniform should be worn carrying out raids also. Uniform should not be a Black Tee Shirt or Ninja type garb but a traditional recognizable police uniform with badge visible. All cars making routine traffic stops should be marked, have light bar on top, and be driven by a uniformed officer. Civilian Law Enforcement except for Border Patrol needs to be demilitarized. That includes not using military type uniforms in typical duties.

Any officer obtaining a search warrant should also be required to execute it in person. No Exceptions. In event of wanted person officers should make efforts to arrest a suspect away from home. There was no sense in raiding the mans home when they could have served warrant much safer elsewhere. These type of bust in John Wayne tactics need to end NOW except in emergency.

Too any Cops reading this. I support LEO's. I realize they have a difficult and often thankless job. I also have a job and a GOD GIVEN RIGHT which is self and family protection. My home should be considered safe for my family and myself. I should have the right to believe someone knocking down my door is coming too shoot or kill me or family members and I should have a right too respond accordingly too that threat. If I busted down your door a zero dark thirty yelling and screaming like a junkie hyped on PCP you would shoot if you did not recognize me. It was zero dark thirty to the man who was killed BTW. He was a day sleeper.

I have a door in which to knock on, a phone which too call me on {BTW most LEA's have landline numbers too all homes via 911 system data}, and like you I sleep close to immediate protection. Simple changes in allowed search warrant procedures would save many lives including other innocents as well as officers.

If as a LEO you feel it is too dangerous too do your job in the safer for all more traditional up till the last couple of decades manner listed above perhaps you need too change careers. Yes I know some drugs or other evidence may get flushed etc. BIG DEAL!!! and I am not pro-legalization of such BTW. Law enforcement needs to reestablish some creditable distance between property forfeitures {the driving force behind many raids of today} and the money it rakes in for the local government and work too regain public trust.

22 posted on 11/27/2011 4:53:59 PM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
His cousin was evidently a user, and POSSIBLY his brother is a smuggler. Or possibly not, given who is making this case. So, why didn’t they go after his brother, if they have information against him?

If that was their basis for arrest then likely half the USA is suspect after their activities of association with other family members during the past four days. LOA's are doing sloppy police work because they know they can get by with it. Biigest punishment is usually job termination. Big Deal another agency job is just a county or election away.

23 posted on 11/27/2011 5:00:30 PM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Slings and Arrows

“During this investigation, extremely little evidence, if any, was found to raise even a suspicion that Jose Guerena was involved in any possible drug trafficking ring,” the notice says.

Scileppi said the fact that Guerena had been fired at 71 times and hit 22 times was “grotesque,” and “almost a caricature of an overly excited group of poorly trained law enforcement agents.”

Kastigar sharply disputed that, calling the Pima County SWAT team one of the best of its kind in the nation. “We’re not a bunch of country bumpkins in southern Arizona with big bellies and cowboy hats,” he said.

The shooting was justified, he said, because Guerena pointed his AR-15 at the SWAT officers and said, “I’ve got something for you,” before they opened fire.

The five SWAT team members who shot Guerena believed that he had fired his weapon first, he said. Subsequent investigation revealed that the gun’s safety was on and hadn’t been fired.


They sound pretty incompetent to me — big bellies or not.


24 posted on 11/27/2011 5:06:07 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open ( <o> ---)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: smokingfrog
Too me it's a credibility issue. The dead man has many who can speak for his character it seems including his former Marines he served under. The ones in the raid on the other hand? They have each other. His weapon was on safety. He was in his own home. The sheriffs office has yet to make enough of a case to justify the search too start with. Ample oppertunites to arrest or serve him at a safer venue were not taken. They chose intead to raid his home where they did not have visual on him. If they knew where he worked they darn well know what shift thus the morning raid.

It Stinks! They could have served him as he pulled into his driveway. We have way too many agencies running around in military type gear and tactics looking for any reason and chance to use it.

25 posted on 11/27/2011 5:20:03 PM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: MrEdd

Is it too late to change my recommendation?

I want prison time for the top management.


26 posted on 11/27/2011 5:36:45 PM PST by samtheman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: bwc2221

Dupnik. That about tells me everything I need to know. The man is the perfect amalgam of arrogance and incompetence.


27 posted on 11/27/2011 5:46:14 PM PST by 6SJ7 (Meh.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: samtheman
Got the wrong house? — Fire the top man.
Used SWAT when a simple arrest would do? — Fire the top man.
Any other misuse of SWAT? — Fire the top man.

You are 100% right.

28 posted on 11/27/2011 6:15:12 PM PST by JakeS (This would be a good time to read John chapter three 1-21)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Cicero

:O( i think 6 is a record...yikes..


29 posted on 11/27/2011 7:08:42 PM PST by goat granny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: goat granny

I’m not a techie, but I think that John Robinson must have set up some kind of barrier to deflect some of the hits on the site while some of the servers were down, being fixed, to prevent the site from being overloaded and going down.

I finally figured out that if you tried to post, and instantly were denied access, then you could try again. But if you tried to post, and access was cut off after some delay, then probably the post got through, but not the second stage, the return to the thread where you could see the post.

Interesting to know, although I haven’t seen this happen very often.


30 posted on 11/27/2011 8:01:21 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Slings and Arrows
The wife is lying. She knew it was police outside. It was broad daylight. They were in marked vehicles with lights on. They used sirens. The officers were wearing vests with POLICE on them. They announced themselves as police with a warrant. She was shown identification. If she didn't tell her husband there were police outside the shooting is as much her fault as anyone elses. If you point an assault rifle at a SWAT team you are probably going to get shot.

And before any of you chime in with but...but....but:

1)It was a search warrant not an arrest warrant.
2) They had the right house. It was not a wrong address.
3)SWAT had been briefed that Guerena was potentially armed and dangerous.
4) It was not a no-knock warrant. They were in marked, lit, vehicles with siren. All officers had POLICE stenciled on their vests.
5)The affidavit used to get the search warrant suggested an elaborate ongoing criminal enterprise possibly tied to one or more murders.

It's unfortunate an ex-marine had to die this way but all indications are he was a criminal and made very poor choices.

http://www.wsfa.com/story/14901148/swat-shooting-of-guerena-ruled-reasonable-and-justified

http://www.kvoa.com/files/Scanned%20Document0582_000.pdf

http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2011/06/05/

31 posted on 11/27/2011 8:19:23 PM PST by MtBaldy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Slings and Arrows

Oh some person will post it latter.


32 posted on 11/27/2011 11:09:34 PM PST by Domangart
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MtBaldy

No arrests as of yet. Just a dead Marine who was not the target of the warrant. And some fatherless little boys and a widow. What a shameful day May 5, 2011 was in Tucson, AZ.


33 posted on 11/27/2011 11:18:51 PM PST by petitfour
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Slings and Arrows
I believe it's time to disband SWAT teams and to outlaw "no-knock" warrants.

In the same spirit as the "innocent until proven guilty" doctrine we depend upon -- even though some guilty people will get away -- I believe it's far better to wait and get the bad guy later, in some other way, than to allow police officers to gun down the people they have sworn to protect EVER AGAIN.

34 posted on 11/27/2011 11:34:53 PM PST by TChris ("Hello", the politician lied.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TChris

I agree 100%. Also it makes NO SENSE to serve a search warrant on someone while inside their home. Serve warrants where the persons are visable outside or at another location.


35 posted on 11/28/2011 12:04:28 AM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: samtheman
Got the wrong house? — Fire the top man.< br> Used SWAT when a simple arrest would do? — Fire the top man.
Any other misuse of SWAT? — Fire the top man.


Replace 'fire' with 'Put on trial for murder and then publicly hang'.
36 posted on 11/28/2011 8:03:23 AM PST by TalonDJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: TalonDJ

I agree.

When I first posted “fire”, I then changed it to “prison time”.

And you’re right, if anyone dies in a botched SWAT raid, the Chief of Police and any other high-ranking officials who signed off on it should get the death penalty.


37 posted on 11/28/2011 8:22:50 AM PST by samtheman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: smokingfrog
“We’re not a bunch of country bumpkins in southern Arizona with big bellies and cowboy hats,” he said."

That's for sure. A bumpkin sheriff with a big belly and cowboy hat would have probably handled this competently.

38 posted on 11/28/2011 8:28:55 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: MtBaldy
And before any of you chime in with but...but....but:

Okay then. How bout the cops are lying PsOS, and you're no better for your selective recitation of circumstances.

That any better?

39 posted on 11/28/2011 8:50:25 AM PST by papertyger (What has islam ever accomplished that treacherous, opportunistic, brutality couldn't do on its own?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: MtBaldy

BTW, Ayoob’s blog entry is a joke.

I’ve seen better writing and balance come out of MSNBC.


40 posted on 11/28/2011 8:55:40 AM PST by papertyger (What has islam ever accomplished that treacherous, opportunistic, brutality couldn't do on its own?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: smokingfrog
They sound pretty incompetent to me — big bellies or not.

Twenty seconds into the raid, they've got one suspect down in the living room and haven't cleared the ret of the house yet. There may or may not be more suspects in the house (maybe even in the next room), who may or may not be armed - and they're all standing there holding empty weapons.

41 posted on 11/28/2011 9:02:16 AM PST by tacticalogic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: papertyger

How about you’re an ignorant a-hole whose hatred for the cops won’t let you deal with fact and reality?


42 posted on 11/28/2011 10:43:09 AM PST by MtBaldy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: MtBaldy

It’s either that, or your just another cop sucker.


43 posted on 11/28/2011 10:58:13 AM PST by papertyger (What has islam ever accomplished that treacherous, opportunistic, brutality couldn't do on its own?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson