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Herman Cainís Social Security Problem
Red State ^ | 11-28-2011 | alandlugash

Posted on 11/28/2011 11:18:59 AM PST by TitansAFC

Though I applaud the refreshing boldness that Mr. Cain had shown by proposing to America an actual plan for tax reform, there are two serious drawbacks to his solution that show his fiscal naivete. Most critics would point to the unsavory proposal of having both a sales and income tax in force at the same time, making it possible for future Congresses to increase rates and turn us into Europe. But it is actually the plan’s impact on Social Security that is most devastating.

Cain’s plan would eliminate the Social Security tax and related withholding, and cover retirement pensions as a true “entitlement” (welfare) system out of general tax revenues. This is not what Social Security was intended to be as established by FDR; that is, a system in which people paid for their own retirement. Once liberal politicians started promising individuals far in excess of what their contributions paid for, with no actuarial consideration nor funding whatsoever, Social Security’s demise became assured.

In order to overcome its crippling insolvency, Social Security must go back to its original intent — a self-funded retirement plan. This could be achieved by taking any of many possible forms, but must include the concept that individuals themselves are paying for their own retirement; ie, they are putting money into a plan which will become their invested retirement fund.

By contributing more deeply to the entitlement problem and making Americans further wedded to the government through entitlements, Cain’s tax plan is a failure. Such a solution ultimately departs from his avowed conservativism.


TOPICS: Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2012; burdensome; cain; obama; socialsecurity; taxation; taxes
From RedState.com
1 posted on 11/28/2011 11:19:09 AM PST by TitansAFC
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To: TitansAFC
Social Security must go back to its original intent — a self-funded retirement plan.

Social Security *Insurance* (SSI) was never originally intended to be a retirement plan at all.

2 posted on 11/28/2011 11:22:59 AM PST by kevao
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To: TitansAFC

Yup, 999 is Cain’s only real issue and it isn’t even a good idea. He’s a great motivational speaker, but there just isn’t much substance behind the smile - nor does he understand the issues well enough to really develop anything beyond 999.


3 posted on 11/28/2011 11:25:04 AM PST by Longbow1969
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To: kevao
True, but it depends on the incarnation.

First it was there to provide for war widows, etc.
Then it was there for retirement security (insurance)
Now it's a public retirement pension.

Privatization, certainly partial privatization at least, is the way to go.

4 posted on 11/28/2011 11:27:48 AM PST by TitansAFC (Mr. Cain, infanticide is not a "social decision," and it SHOULD be part of the political discussion!)
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To: TitansAFC

I can’t rebut this because of my lack of economic expertise but please don’t let the good be an enemy of the perfect. There is plenty of time to make a workable, conservative solution out of 999 or else treat it as temporary on a step to utopia.

Social security is messed up right now. Obama, if he touched it, would only make it worse. Newt would go with whichever would make him more beloved by the most people. So because Cain’s plan isn’t perfect doesn’t mean it’s not the best possible plan out there. I haven’t heard romney’s great conservative plan, and no one else will be president but those people.


5 posted on 11/28/2011 11:30:59 AM PST by Yaelle (Help Herman Cain win Iowa so we get a conservative as a nominee!)
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To: TitansAFC

Another good thread to post this e-mail I just opened.

Wages

Salary of retired US Presidents .........$450,000 FOR LIFE
Salary of House/Senate members ..........$174,000 FOR LIFE
Salary of Speaker of the House ..........$223,500 FOR LIFE
Salary of Majority/Minority Leader......$193,400 FOR LIFE

Average salary of a soldier DEPLOYED IN AFGHANISTAN - $38,000

Average income for seniors on SOCIAL SECURITY - $12,000*

I think we found where the cuts should be made! If you agree... Pass it on!
*The President says we may have to cut Social Security??


6 posted on 11/28/2011 11:31:39 AM PST by sodpoodle ( Gingrich-Cain 2012)
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To: TitansAFC
Cain’s plan would eliminate the Social Security tax and related withholding

Barry and his minions are already doing this ... step by step ... with the aim of eliminating the "regressive" payroll tax and replacing it with taxes on millionaires and billionaires.

The pubbies are already being demonized for not extending the payroll tax cut because "they want to increase taxes on the poor and middle class" to further enrich their "wealthy" friends.

7 posted on 11/28/2011 11:32:41 AM PST by tx_eggman (Liberalism is only possible in that moment when a man chooses Barabas over Christ.)
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To: TitansAFC

What social security tax? There has been no “REAL” social security tax in decades. It should be called a “TINO”. Now the dems are wanting to continue the recent Social Security Tax cut which they are incorrectly calling a payroll tax cut. If there was a social security fund it would be hurting that fund. Now FICA Tax is just another tax and has been since LBJ days. But it is being used as a political ploy. I am just totally disgusted with all the crap going on. Just read a Bloomberg report this morning that 7.7 trillion dollars was handed to six different banks without any knowledge of congress. No accountibility. That was in March 2009 right after the 8 billion dollar TARP. We keep getting screwed by the world bankers but hell H.L. Hunt warned us of this in 1958 or earlier.


8 posted on 11/28/2011 11:35:14 AM PST by Jukeman
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To: kevao

Correct. Too bad many here don’t understand that SS is not a “good program gone bad”, but a fraud from the beginning that is now destroying the nation.


9 posted on 11/28/2011 11:36:29 AM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: TitansAFC
If it's Monday (or ANY day)...it's Herman Cain bashing day on RedState.com (or HotAir.com, or Ace of Spades, or...)

Funny how they all seem to love Newton Leroy, though, eh? HotAir.com still has not reported a thing about Newt's FreddieMac lobbying.

10 posted on 11/28/2011 11:38:25 AM PST by montag813
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To: sodpoodle

So, would term limits only create more instances of these kind of liabilities?


11 posted on 11/28/2011 11:39:13 AM PST by infool7 (Let us water the tree...)
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To: TitansAFC
Cain’s plan would eliminate the Social Security tax and related withholding, and cover retirement pensions as a true “entitlement” (welfare) system out of general tax revenues. This is not what Social Security was intended to be as established by FDR; that is, a system in which people paid for their own retirement.

Too late to close the stall door now. That horse fled the barn about 40 years ago. Anyone who thinks there is seperate money set aside in a "trust fund" is a simpleton.

12 posted on 11/28/2011 11:40:48 AM PST by Hugin ("Most time a man'll tell you his bad intentions if you listen and let yourself hear"--Open Range)
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To: TitansAFC
I like the newt plan, where we have 3 dollar an hour illegals, helping spend your social security, so you can become a unit at age 70. Works well for the exempt ones retire on the government teat.
13 posted on 11/28/2011 11:45:19 AM PST by org.whodat (Just another heartless American, hated by "AMNESTY" Newt, Willard, Perry and his fellow supporters.)
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To: TitansAFC
Most critics would point to the unsavory proposal of having both a sales and income tax in force at the same time, making it possible for future Congresses to increase rates and turn us into Europe.

It's already possible. The Donkees would love to layer in a VAT or something, the better to shear the sheeple and buy their votes with their own wool. The only thing that prevents it is Republican votes. There's nothing in the Constitution that keeps Congress from instituting a national sales tax.

14 posted on 11/28/2011 11:47:39 AM PST by cynwoody
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To: TitansAFC
Privatization, certainly partial privatization at least, is the way to go.

Glad you agree with Herman Cain on that. Privatization, similar to Chile, is part of his campaign .

15 posted on 11/28/2011 11:52:58 AM PST by Prokopton
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To: TitansAFC

0-0-0 is much better.


16 posted on 11/28/2011 12:02:02 PM PST by IbJensen (What this country needs are more unemployed politicians.)
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To: TitansAFC

I get to keep more of MY money which I can then invest for my own retirement. SS was originally meant as a safety net because of the severe circumstances of the depression. It was never intended as a retirement program for everyone, that came later


17 posted on 11/28/2011 12:03:39 PM PST by Nifster
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To: kevao

Correct!

No doubt the dems slipped it in under SS cover. Don’t know if SSI is overall good or no good. Do know alot of people scam to get it and they all ain’t just Holders people.

A lot of things have reduced Cain to bagasse.


18 posted on 11/28/2011 12:06:36 PM PST by X-spurt
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To: Yaelle

Well, Perry dared to speak the truth about SS and look what it got him. Romney ridiculed Perry.


19 posted on 11/28/2011 12:08:05 PM PST by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: TitansAFC
nce liberal politicians started promising individuals far in excess of what their contributions paid for, with no actuarial consideration nor funding whatsoever, Social Security’s demise became assured.

So that would have been in 1935. Payments began in 1940 and Ida May Fuller, who had paid $22.54 total in SS taxes, started collecting checks for the next 35 years and got a total of $22,888.92 in payments.

Until the 1980s Social Security always ran on a "pay as you go basis" where they collected enough to pay current retirees and never worried much about the future. At the time the trust fund was run more like the "leave a penny, take a penny" tray for the years when they taxed a little too much or came up a little short, but the contents of the trust fund were minimal compared to annual revenue and expenses. After 1986 (I think), taxes were increased to be able to "save" for the future, but Congress had the keys to the Social Security trust fund vault and spent it all long before it was needed.

20 posted on 11/28/2011 12:10:37 PM PST by KarlInOhio (Herman Cain: possibly the escapee most dangerous to the Democrats since Frederick Douglass.)
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To: TitansAFC
Most critics would point to the unsavory proposal of having both a sales and income tax in force at the same time, making it possible for future Congresses to increase rates and turn us into Europe.

Yawn.

So Congress can't raise taxes under our current system?

And we don't currently have Sales Tax "in force at the same time" as Income Tax in all but five states? (Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, Oregon)

This is a tired argument.

Cain's plan isn't the best option, but he put something on the table and forced the other candidates to come up with a proposal. If people want to gripe about Cain's ideas, they should jump to the end result, which is the Flat Tax. 9-9-9 is a transition plan. (And in my mind, why bother with that... just get right to the end game.) So if people have a better idea, throw it out there. Because if we don't start talking about it now, it will never get changed/fixed.

21 posted on 11/28/2011 12:16:37 PM PST by BagCamAddict (If you hate a particular candidate, look inward, and ask why you are so full of hate.)
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To: infool7

Yes - if the pensions were not stopped ASAP.

How many working people get such a generous pension after only 2, 4, 6, or 8 years on the job?

Term limits can be implemented and elected officials must make their own contributions to a 401K or to the Social Security fund....like every one else.


22 posted on 11/28/2011 12:48:49 PM PST by sodpoodle ( Gingrich-Cain 2012)
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To: TitansAFC

Which is what Cain has supported if you listened to his debate with Gingrich.

Why are you lying about him again?

Cain supports privitization of the present system.


23 posted on 11/28/2011 2:13:16 PM PST by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! 10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government)
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To: KarlInOhio
So that would have been in 1935. Payments began in 1940 and Ida May Fuller, who had paid $22.54 total in SS taxes, started collecting checks for the next 35 years and got a total of $22,888.92 in payments.

That worked out for Ida May but not so well for my dad, who paid in from the beginning until he died in 1974 and never received a dime from S.S.

24 posted on 11/28/2011 3:48:58 PM PST by Graybeard58 (Of course Obama loves his country but Herman Cain loves mine.)
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