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Supreme Court Considers Whether A Fist Is A 'Dangerous Instrument' [CT]
HartfordCourant ^ | November 28, 2011 | CHRISTINE DEMPSEY

Posted on 11/29/2011 5:42:45 AM PST by Daffynition

Is a fist a dangerous instrument?

Lawyers spent some 50 minutes Monday arguing the question in the state's highest court as justices interjected questions.

Richard Condon Jr., a senior assistant public defender, argued that Steeve LaFleur should not have been convicted of first-degree assault with a dangerous instrument. A jury found him guilty of the charge after a trial; LaFleur, who turned 36 Monday, is serving an 18-year prison sentence for the crime.

(Excerpt) Read more at courant.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; US: Connecticut
KEYWORDS:
Also, in Southington, CT from this morning's paper:

Police: Christmas Ornament Used As Weapon

SOUTHINGTON—

A woman allegedly doing her holiday shoplifting at a Christmas Craft Fair Sunday afternoon is facing a host of felony charges after police say she stabbed someone with a seashell Christmas ornament.

Ruth Wagner, of Burritt Street in the Plantsville section of town, was arrested Sunday afternoon at her home. Police were led to Wagner after witnesses took down her license plate as she fled from the craft fair at the Aqua Turf Club in Plantsville, police said.

1 posted on 11/29/2011 5:42:48 AM PST by Daffynition
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To: Daffynition

CHUCK NORRIS, need I say more?


2 posted on 11/29/2011 5:51:43 AM PST by Captain PJ
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To: Daffynition

3 posted on 11/29/2011 5:52:28 AM PST by PGalt
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To: Daffynition

If it helps them answer their question I would draw my gun on someone threatening me with their fist.

There have been several local bar fights that resulted in death after just a single punch.


4 posted on 11/29/2011 6:00:34 AM PST by TSgt (BEAT OBAMA WITH A CAIN!)
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To: Captain PJ

5 posted on 11/29/2011 6:03:51 AM PST by Daffynition ( **Socialism, in general, has a record of failure so blatant that only an effete could ignore it**)
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To: TSgt

Sadly in CT, *you’d* probably be the one arrested for *brandishing.*

I swear, this state makes me nutz! GRRR!


6 posted on 11/29/2011 6:06:49 AM PST by Daffynition ( **Socialism, in general, has a record of failure so blatant that only an effete could ignore it**)
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To: PGalt

7 posted on 11/29/2011 6:08:46 AM PST by Daffynition ( **Socialism, in general, has a record of failure so blatant that only an effete could ignore it**)
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To: Daffynition
In the right hands, a live chicken could be a deadly weapon...
Photobucket
8 posted on 11/29/2011 6:12:16 AM PST by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
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To: TSgt

It all depends. A 20-year-old man punching a 20-year-old man of similar physique is probably not deadly force. A muscular 20-year-old punching a frail 60-year-old is using potentially-deadly force, and it would be reasonable for the 60-yo to respond with deadly force.


9 posted on 11/29/2011 6:17:27 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: Daffynition

This is ridiculous. An “instrument” in the plain dictionary definition is a “device.” Your hand is not a “device,” it’s your hand. To think that the law’s drafters meant anything different is patently absurd, and someone should jail whoever charged him in that manner for criminal stupidity.


10 posted on 11/29/2011 6:19:13 AM PST by mvpel
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To: TSgt
Looking at the article:
He attacked his ex-girlfriend on a New Haven street on Aug. 21, 2008, punching her 20 to 30 times. The assault caused extensive trauma to her right eye, fractures of multiple facial bones, and a broken nose, according to a Supreme Court summary of the case.
That level of force would have merited a "deadly force" response.
11 posted on 11/29/2011 6:19:52 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: PapaBear3625

Just about anywhere in the US you can respond with deadly force if you are threatened not only with the risk of death, but “great bodily harm” as well.


12 posted on 11/29/2011 6:22:21 AM PST by mvpel
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To: PapaBear3625

Indeed. Fist, bat, knife, or gun. None of them should be the focus in a violent confrontation. The only concern should be shutting down the CNS of the person wielding them.


13 posted on 11/29/2011 6:25:14 AM PST by Wolfie
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To: Daffynition
The fag on the right needs secret service protection from the evil bitch on the left.

If the SS shot moochelle, while protecting the one, would he turn on them and rat them out to his pal, Holder?


14 posted on 11/29/2011 6:26:40 AM PST by USS Alaska (Nuke The Terrorist Savages)
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To: PapaBear3625

Two punks on Roller Blades tried to jump an 80 year old man in Malden MA for the Money Bag he had from the Parking Lot he works at. He knocked the 1st one out with one punch and the other took off. The “old man” is in the Golden Tornado Club as one of the best football players in the High School’s history. He is also one hell of a bartender.


15 posted on 11/29/2011 6:28:46 AM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Daffynition

is a fist an “instrument”? or an “implement”? Can stores and public places ban hands?


16 posted on 11/29/2011 6:32:29 AM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: massgopguy

I love reading stories like that. Thanks!


17 posted on 11/29/2011 6:34:01 AM PST by meatloaf (I've had it with recycling politicians in any way shape or form. Toss 'em out!)
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To: PapaBear3625
It all depends. A 20-year-old man punching a 20-year-old man of similar physique is probably not deadly force. A muscular 20-year-old punching a frail 60-year-old is using potentially-deadly force, and it would be reasonable for the 60-yo to respond with deadly force.
Which is why the law, and this particular application of it, is so stupid, and why the ruling could be so dangerous.

Do they lack the proper law for giving someone a long sentence for committing "grievous bodily harm" -- or they have the law and the prosecutor and judge are too stupid to use it?

The point is, they shouldn't have focused on (or been forced to focus on) the fist; they should have focused on (or been able to focus on) the extent of the injuries. THAT's what he should be serving a long prison sentence for, not for the irrelevant fact that he used his fist.

I don't care what he used -- fist, badminton racket, dinner fork, potted plant -- if he viciously and maliciously caused that long list of injuries he deserves a long stay in prison.

I guess our "justice system" is just too stupid to get to the heart of the matter.

18 posted on 11/29/2011 6:42:07 AM PST by samtheman
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To: Daffynition

Reading this after just reading about the social workers who removed a fat kid from his parents because they didn’t make him lose weight. I guess this article means we’ll all have to have our fists cut off, I find this country increasingly bizarre!


19 posted on 11/29/2011 6:45:55 AM PST by pepperdog (Why are Democrats Afraid of a Voter ID Law?)
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To: samtheman
Do they lack the proper law for giving someone a long sentence for committing "grievous bodily harm" -- or they have the law and the prosecutor and judge are too stupid to use it?

They wanted to twist and warp the law so that they could nail him with a 5-year mandatory minimum and 20-year maximum sentence for first-degree assault, instead of a 5-year maximum for second-degree assault.

Vigilante prosecutors are more dangerous than gang members.

20 posted on 11/29/2011 6:46:01 AM PST by mvpel
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To: PowderMonkey
ROFLOL!!! What live chicken?


21 posted on 11/29/2011 6:47:13 AM PST by Daffynition ( **Socialism, in general, has a record of failure so blatant that only an effete could ignore it**)
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To: Daffynition

Is Barney Frank filing an amicus brief on this?


22 posted on 11/29/2011 6:51:10 AM PST by RichInOC (Frank/Studds: Not Just Our Names, Our Way Of Life. (Gerry Studds, R.I.P.))
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To: TSgt

I have always thought that boxers had to register their fists as dangerous weapons. No?

In any case, if we start down this where will it lead? As a practical matter almost anything can be used as a lethal weapon. This includes pens/pencils, a can of soup, a pillow, broom stick, baseball bat, fork etc. etc.

If we were to deem pencils lethal weapons what would the impact be in schools?

This whole issue is just another colossal waste of time. There are already laws on the books for murder, manslaughter whatever. Except for the premeditation issue, what does it matter what you used to kill someone with. A nuance only a slimy lawyer could love.


23 posted on 11/29/2011 6:53:32 AM PST by dools0007world
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To: samtheman
I don't care what he used -- fist, badminton racket, dinner fork, potted plant -- if he viciously and maliciously caused that long list of injuries he deserves a long stay in prison.

I agree. The focus should have been on the "grievous bodily harm" he caused, and not how he caused it.

24 posted on 11/29/2011 6:53:40 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: GeronL
**In many jurisdictions the fist can be considered a weapon if the perpetrator of the assault is trained in the use of their hands (e.g.: martial arts instructor or high-ranking 'belt' - a professional boxer or wrestler - military trained and skilled in the art of hand-to-hand combat (i.e.: Navy Seal or Army Ranger) - etc) it is conceivable that the charge could be enhanced to reflect this ability to inflict pain, injury or death by their use.**

Saying *talk-to-the-hand* might get you 20 of hard time. ;(

25 posted on 11/29/2011 6:58:41 AM PST by Daffynition ( **Socialism, in general, has a record of failure so blatant that only an effete could ignore it**)
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To: dools0007world
My son is a boxer, no he does not have to register his hands. He does have to register with the state as a boxer in order to box in sanctioned boxing matches. I'm sure were he to be in a conflict outside the ring it would be taken into consideration with a court.
26 posted on 11/29/2011 7:02:39 AM PST by ladyvet ( I would rather have Incitatus then the asses that are in congress today.)
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To: USS Alaska
Best dey not be doin' dat in North Carolina.
27 posted on 11/29/2011 7:03:41 AM PST by Daffynition ( **Socialism, in general, has a record of failure so blatant that only an effete could ignore it**)
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To: Daffynition

that hand would talk back...


28 posted on 11/29/2011 7:11:12 AM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: RichInOC
Sends chills down my spine...


29 posted on 11/29/2011 7:25:48 AM PST by Daffynition ( **Socialism, in general, has a record of failure so blatant that only an effete could ignore it**)
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To: mvpel
Vigilante prosecutors are more dangerous than gang members.
Yup.
30 posted on 11/29/2011 7:42:38 AM PST by samtheman
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To: Daffynition
"These hands are registered as lethal weapons!"


31 posted on 11/29/2011 8:12:39 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: Yo-Yo
LOL...card-carrying, no doubt. :)


32 posted on 11/29/2011 8:28:47 AM PST by Daffynition ( **Socialism, in general, has a record of failure so blatant that only an effete could ignore it**)
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To: PapaBear3625
"A muscular 20-year-old punching a frail 60-year-old is using potentially-deadly force, and it would be reasonable for the 60-yo to respond with deadly force."

Hence, my favorite saying: "I carry a gun 'cause I'm too young to die, and too old to fight fair."
33 posted on 11/29/2011 8:46:15 AM PST by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
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To: PowderMonkey
Remember the *epic beard guy* from the *amber lamps* incident?


34 posted on 11/29/2011 8:52:22 AM PST by Daffynition ( **Socialism, in general, has a record of failure so blatant that only an effete could ignore it**)
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To: Daffynition

So does that mean anyone with a hand can be shot because he came at me with a dangerous instrument? Precedence has been set? Woo hooo!


35 posted on 11/29/2011 8:54:55 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
As a matter of fact, I'm headed down to the police precinct now, to register my belt buckle. Have you done your's yet? Are the permits reciprocal?


36 posted on 11/29/2011 9:11:09 AM PST by Daffynition ( **Socialism, in general, has a record of failure so blatant that only an effete could ignore it**)
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To: Daffynition

I also have suspenders which stretch real nice and my wife has a bunch of those double barrel slingshots too!


37 posted on 11/29/2011 9:17:51 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: dools0007world

“I have always thought that boxers had to register their fists as dangerous weapons. No?”

No. That’s what’s known as a “marketing conceit” :)


38 posted on 11/29/2011 9:20:14 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Daffynition
LOL! "Never pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you." - John Steinbeck
39 posted on 11/29/2011 9:36:51 AM PST by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
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To: CynicalBear
Is that you Mork? :)


40 posted on 11/29/2011 10:32:26 AM PST by Daffynition ( **Socialism, in general, has a record of failure so blatant that only an effete could ignore it**)
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