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Why You Should Quit College
FrontPageMag.com ^ | 11-29-11 | Ben Shapiro

Posted on 11/29/2011 8:06:19 AM PST by UltraConservative

Young people spend their time in college getting high, getting drunk, and getting off. So why shouldn’t they major in it? This seems to be the philosophy of Yale University, where a doctoral candidate is leading a course titled “Dance Music and Nightlife Culture in New York City.” The class includes DJ speakers, trips to chic clubs Le Bain and the Boom Boom Room, and a seminar on “Looks, Doors and Guest Lists: Getting Past the Velvet Rope.” The teacher, Madison Moore, says he’s worried “about whether people will think this is serious. But it’s not just about getting drunk. It’s about the history of it, the Harlem cabarets, understanding race, gender, sex, Prohibition and the law.” For just the bargain basement price of $53,070per annum, you can attend Yale and partake in such glorious and insightful learning.

With a $200,000+ degree in Clubbing, no wonder so many college students are joining Occupy Wall Street, where they are calling for jobs commensurate with their educational achievements. The problem is this: they already have jobs commensurate with their educational achievements. They are sitting in a park doing nothing for no pay. Sounds fair when all you know how to do is bat your eyelashes at bouncers.

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TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: college; sex; shapiro; yale
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1 posted on 11/29/2011 8:06:23 AM PST by UltraConservative
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To: UltraConservative
Supply and demand.

If someone's willing to pay $200k for an accredited degree in "clubbing", someone's willing to offer it.

Hey, the nightclub industry is business. With the right education (however obtained) coupled with talent and tenacity, one could make a LOT of money. $200k might be a bargain ... probably not for most unmotivated students, but those willing to do the work of learning, proving, and executing could reap rich rewards.


2 posted on 11/29/2011 8:18:53 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: UltraConservative

College is an investment. Make a stupid investment and expect to lose everything with no return. Make a good investment, and perhaps work a little while you are in school, and you’ll leave with something that is an asset to you the rest of your life.


3 posted on 11/29/2011 8:23:41 AM PST by TSgt (BEAT OBAMA WITH A CAIN!)
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To: ctdonath2

Is that Tiesto?


4 posted on 11/29/2011 8:23:48 AM PST by 31R1O
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To: ctdonath2

Hard to believe that 20-somethings used to be considered a mature adult, intelligent and responsible. That once upon a time, a man who was 20 was expected to marry, raise a family, embark on a career and own a home. They were a ‘man’ and accepted responsibility, and worked to earn their way.

Today, if the 20-something doesn’t poop on the carpet, we feel the need to reward them.


5 posted on 11/29/2011 8:25:55 AM PST by Hodar ( Who needs laws; when this FEELS so right?)
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To: 31R1O

Yes.


6 posted on 11/29/2011 8:26:08 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: UltraConservative

I hate big government but here’s a regulation I’d like to see.

All public colleges and universities should be required to publish potential employment and salary information for each degree program they offer. This information must come from an objective third party source just like your credit history.

In other words, next to “Bachelors of Arts in Studies of Gay Political Leaders” I expect to see:

Job Opportunities: 0
Potential Salary: $0.00


7 posted on 11/29/2011 8:28:19 AM PST by TSgt (BEAT OBAMA WITH A CAIN!)
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To: Hodar

My goal is that my now-toddlers each start a business and own a home (however humble) by end of high school. Kid wants to party? open a nightclub. Start at the top, not the bottom.


8 posted on 11/29/2011 8:28:39 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: UltraConservative

Depends on a lot of variables, most notable what you want to do. If you want to be an accountant, engineer, doctor, lawyer, professor, business manager, vetrinarian, astronaut, officer in the military, banker, or a bureaucrat, you probably should not quit college. If you want to be a stay at home mom, auto mechanic, HVAC tech, ship fitter, coal miner, retail clerk, salesman, or you have no idea what you want to do, you are wasting your money.


9 posted on 11/29/2011 8:31:46 AM PST by wolfman23601
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To: ctdonath2

I saw him in Amsterdam in 2000 with about 10 other world class DJ’s. Sven Vath, Jeff Mills, Tiesto, Carl Cox ets. in the same night at the same event. After that, events just weren’t the same.


10 posted on 11/29/2011 8:31:59 AM PST by 31R1O
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To: TSgt

No. That’s the student’s - to wit customer’s - problem.
To the contrary (or maybe to your point from the other direction) colleges are becoming legally obligated to say “we promise nothing regarding what this degree - or any degree - will get you.”


11 posted on 11/29/2011 8:32:20 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: wolfman23601

Yeah, I was scratching my head over the title being unrelated to the article. That a school offers a goofy degree is no reason to quit.

...and I’m inclined to insist it’s what you do with the degree - any degree - that matters. A degree is a ticket to begin the race, not a guaranteed win.


12 posted on 11/29/2011 8:35:17 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: 31R1O

[insert seething jealousy here]


13 posted on 11/29/2011 8:36:16 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: ctdonath2
we promise nothing regarding what this degree - or any degree - will get you.

That's fair. I've seen many colleges as of late embellishing job opportunities.
14 posted on 11/29/2011 8:38:18 AM PST by TSgt (BEAT OBAMA WITH A CAIN!)
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15 posted on 11/29/2011 8:38:48 AM PST by Baynative (The penalty for not participating in politics is you will be governed by your inferiors.)
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To: UltraConservative

good lord.


16 posted on 11/29/2011 8:43:58 AM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: ctdonath2

That is not a business class. They aren’t learning anything about business.

Free market?

Getting $200,000 in college loans from the government and spend the rest of your life with OWS demanding it be forgiven and the taxpayers stuck with it is “supply and demand”??


17 posted on 11/29/2011 8:46:08 AM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Hodar
Today, if the 20-something doesn’t poop on the carpet, we feel the need to reward them.

Post of the morning!! LOLs!

18 posted on 11/29/2011 8:46:39 AM PST by Albion Wilde (A land of hyper-legalisms is not the same as a land of law. --Mark Steyn)
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To: UltraConservative

I have to assume you have to be 21 to take this course but then again, colleges seem to be above the law sometimes.


19 posted on 11/29/2011 8:48:23 AM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: wolfman23601
A good college education is in no way a waste of money for a stay at home mom.
20 posted on 11/29/2011 8:49:03 AM PST by Jack of all Trades (Hold your face to the light, even though for the moment you do not see.)
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To: UltraConservative

Stay in school. Most jobs require a Bachelor’s Degree today and that includes most low wage job. Getting a degree shows the company that you can finish something you start. You guys probably were supporting kids quit high school back in the day. You are going to end up having children in poverty if you keep up this anti-college nonsense. My kids are going to college or into the military and that is it. There is no way I would support getting a job out of high school....what do you think 10 years down the road they are gong to be able to do? Sure a minute few individuals do very well with just a high school degree. But you guys are acting like those idiots who make their children practice playing basketball from birth 24/7 because they MIGHT get into the NBA. Does not make sense at all.


21 posted on 11/29/2011 8:51:33 AM PST by napscoordinator (Anybody but Romney, Newt, Perry, Huntsman, Paul. Perry and Obama are 100 percent the same!!!!!)
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To: wolfman23601
If you want to be an accountant, engineer, doctor, lawyer, professor, business manager, vetrinarian, astronaut, officer in the military, banker, or a bureaucrat, you probably should not quit college.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Charles Murray is right. What is needed are credentialing exams so that employers and others could know that certain subjects had been mastered.

Are employers really interested in degrees, or do they want motivated, smart, and educated employees and some way that measures that? I'd say it is the latter.

Most of the work done in banking, accounting, bureaucracy, and business, does not need a specific degree to do the work. Since the existence of European presence on this continent this work was done by people who did not attend college. Most in fact were homeschooled or attended one room schools in a spotty manner...even up to my father's day ( born 1913).

Even in professions such as medicine, dentistry, architecture, ( and especially law), qualifying exams could replace many of the basic and fact-based courses. Mentoring, of course, would still be required but the cost to the student could be greatly reduced by the use of qualifying exams for many courses.

Qualifying exams could start in first grade. For example, once a child demonstrates mastery of addition math facts, he would immediately move on to subtraction math facts.

All courses provided by state elementary, high school, and universities should be available on-line. The taxpayer paid for it so access should be free to all. Private qualifying exams could prove that the student mastered the material.

Finally....This could be a Mark Zuckerman opportunity. Those who privately produce Internet material and provide the certifiable exams could offer the material to the students for **free**. They could become as rich as Zuckerman, if they accepted advertising.

22 posted on 11/29/2011 8:53:38 AM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: napscoordinator
Please read my post #22.
23 posted on 11/29/2011 8:55:27 AM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: 31R1O
Is that Tiesto?

Nope. Chuck Testa.

24 posted on 11/29/2011 8:57:30 AM PST by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: wintertime

I like this idea a lot. For one thing it actually will put kids where they can succeed. The military does this exact thing. You are given the ASVAB test where they show where your “specialties” are. You are give a couple of areas that you exceed in and you can decide which one you would like to pursue. Some will say, “but what if they don’t like it or if they are not as good as the test say”. Sure this happens but it is rare. If that happens, then take another test and see if there is something else that would work. This really would work! It would save a lot of heartaches for people that is for sure.


25 posted on 11/29/2011 9:01:43 AM PST by napscoordinator (Anybody but Romney, Newt, Perry, Huntsman, Paul. Perry and Obama are 100 percent the same!!!!!)
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To: napscoordinator
high school degree
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Please forgive me for being picky.

High schools give diplomas. Colleges and universities award degrees.

By the way....My kids all went to college and finished. Two have M.S. degrees. One partly finished a masters. As things stand, they are better off with the degrees than without. But...I would like to see a move toward qualifying exams.

This obsession with college degrees wastes a lot of the young person's life. Is inefficient, and keeps them out of the workforce which is a cost as well. Not only does tuition have a price tag, the lost income from not holding down a full time job in a career has a cost as well.

One of the benefits of homeschooling was that 2 of my four kids finished B.S. degrees in math by the age of 18. As I drive past my local high school I **know** that the top 10% could be finishing B.S. or B.A. degrees by age 18 as well. Those extra 4 years in the workforce adds up to a very large amount of wages.

26 posted on 11/29/2011 9:04:32 AM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: Hodar

“Today, if the 20-something doesn’t poop on the carpet, we feel the need to reward them.”

Dittos! I say the same thing. We would follow the Dr. Spock thing and say, while cleaning it up ourselves, “Gee, I am disappointed in you. Next time I hope you can do better and make it to the bathroom, but I still love you.”


27 posted on 11/29/2011 9:07:28 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: wintertime

Those extra 4 years in the workforce adds up to a very large amount of wages.

That is VERY true. What a difference saving money for 42 years instead of 38 years. It would be huge. Plus a lot of those kids at the high school are so bored. They really don’t know how to individualize high school. I know it is hard with thousands of kids but a better way of doing this would actually help the school in the long run.


28 posted on 11/29/2011 9:07:51 AM PST by napscoordinator (Anybody but Romney, Newt, Perry, Huntsman, Paul. Perry and Obama are 100 percent the same!!!!!)
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To: Hodar
Hard to believe that 20-somethings used to be considered a mature adult, intelligent and responsible. That once upon a time, a man who was 20 was expected to marry, raise a family, embark on a career and own a home. They were a ‘man’ and accepted responsibility, and worked to earn their way. Today, if the 20-something doesn’t poop on the carpet, we feel the need to reward them.

It's still the case today, that men in their early 20's are made responsible for people's lives and millions of dollars of complex equipment in the military.

29 posted on 11/29/2011 9:08:12 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: wintertime

“What is needed are credentialing exams so that employers and others could know that certain subjects had been mastered.

Employers used to have a better system: They checked on colleges and degree programs and would only accept those that had demonstrated quality. A person needed to have the appropriate degree from an accepted college for the degree to count.


30 posted on 11/29/2011 9:11:58 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: UltraConservative

Still not as good as Northwestern University’s sex toy class. You get an A if you put the batteries in right. If you put the batteries in upside down, you get to go to law school.


31 posted on 11/29/2011 9:14:09 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: wintertime

“Please forgive me for being picky. High schools give diplomas. Colleges and universities award degrees.”

Wrong! Yet, one more demonstration of the lack of knowledge in this country. Colleges do issue diplomas for degrees.


32 posted on 11/29/2011 9:16:16 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: Jack of all Trades

“A good college education is in no way a waste of money for a stay at home mom.”

Well, if you have the money and wish to learn, it isn’t a waste, but it certainly isn’t an investment.


33 posted on 11/29/2011 9:16:53 AM PST by wolfman23601
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To: PapaBear3625
I attended nursing schooling in 1964. At 18 we were in charge of entire hospital wards. Scary but true.
34 posted on 11/29/2011 9:17:29 AM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: All

wow


35 posted on 11/29/2011 9:19:23 AM PST by Maverick68
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To: wintertime
Charles Murray is right. What is needed are credentialing exams so that employers and others could know that certain subjects had been mastered. Are employers really interested in degrees, or do they want motivated, smart, and educated employees and some way that measures that? I'd say it is the latter.

Such testing used to be the norm. It was effectively outlawed by the Supreme Court in Griggs v. Duke Power Co. in 1971. Since then, any test which has "disparate impact" (different pass rates for blacks and whites) is declared racially discriminatory. Coincident with this, companies started to push for college degrees as a way to select for more-intelligent applicants.

We would need to repeal Title VII of the Civil Rights Act in order to restore sanity.

36 posted on 11/29/2011 9:19:26 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: UltraConservative

There’s nothing wrong with going to college, so long as you don’t slack off and get a degree in something completely useless like Transgendered Studies.


37 posted on 11/29/2011 9:21:09 AM PST by Shadow44
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To: wintertime

I certainly agree with you, but I was speaking to the reality of the current situation. You are unlikely to get any of my listed jobs without a degree, though it is possible to have careers as an undegreed engineer, accountant, or banker, your chances are close to zero in getting your foot in the door unless you are entering a family business. Credential exams would be great, but it won’t happen as it would take the power away from big education. Can you think of any reason why I should have to go to law school to take the bar exam... or have 100+ credits in accounting to take the CPA exam? If I think I know the material and am willing to pay for the test, why should I have to spend money on formal education. You realize Bill Gates is unqualified to teach a high school businuss class?


38 posted on 11/29/2011 9:24:31 AM PST by wolfman23601
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To: 31R1O

What is a ‘world class DJ’?

don’t they just spin records?


39 posted on 11/29/2011 9:24:54 AM PST by Mr. K (Physically unable to proofreed <--- oops, see?)
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To: TSgt
"In other words, next to “Bachelors of Arts in Studies of Gay Political Leaders” I expect to see:

Job Opportunities: 0
Potential Salary: $0.00"

Except you need a third category:
Government Job Opportunities and salary: Upper Management at over $150K.

40 posted on 11/29/2011 9:28:46 AM PST by Mr. K (Physically unable to proofreed <--- oops, see?)
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To: Albion Wilde; Hodar
Post of the morning!

I agree - great post!

My oldest has been self-supporting since she was 18, but the next one ... well, he's not 18 yet, but I still feel rather grateful that he doesn't go on the carpet ...

41 posted on 11/29/2011 9:30:09 AM PST by Tax-chick (Thomas Sowell. Accept no substitutes!)
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To: TSgt

Agree with your statement!

I have 2 boys in college now! Oldest received his Associate in Science - Computer Programming (magma cume laude) and will receive his Bachelors Degree in May. He knows his education is expensive and important.

My next son just finished his first term at WPI with all A’s working towards a degree in Interactive Media and Game design. Again, it’s all in what you put into your own self worth.

I think parents have a lot to do with how their children look at their education. Anything you receive in life requires working hard to receive. It’s a struggle every day, hopefully they will do better in life than I was afforded. They know this and they respect this!


42 posted on 11/29/2011 9:30:47 AM PST by jcsjcm (This country was built on exceptionalism and individualism. In God we Trust - Laus Deo)
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To: CodeToad
Please note that I was referring to the phrase, “high school degree”.

High schools do not award or confer degrees. The proper expression is “high school diploma”. The diploma merely will state that the student has completed the program.

Colleges and universities award degrees. You are right, however, the college **diploma** will plainly state what **degree** has been conferred.

43 posted on 11/29/2011 9:34:54 AM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: napscoordinator
That is the problem.

We require a BS degree for a lab position paying $40k a year.

Most of the people have $65K in debt.

You can make more with less debt on the plant floor after four years of seniority.

44 posted on 11/29/2011 9:40:53 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: wolfman23601

I’m a stay at home mom, and I’m glad I have a college degree. First, I worked for 10 years as a software engineer, and that is where I met my husband (a fellow engineer). That right there makes my degree worth it.

However as a mom, it’s great toe able to help my kids with all their homework or have discussions with my kids about what they are learning.

One of my daughters has a brain injury and my husband has cancer, I’m the one that researches health issues. It’s helped to have my degree.

I need to go back to work, and I’m hoping that I’ll be able to find something even though I haven’t worked in years.


45 posted on 11/29/2011 9:41:16 AM PST by luckystarmom
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To: wolfman23601
I think you are right. In the professions there would be a great deal of resistence from the professional organizations and licensing boards.

In my office, I would **not** interview anyone with a high school diploma. The reason is that I had wasted far too much time with illiterates and innumerates with high school diplomas. I required some community college just to assure that the applicant could read. (Even with some community college most of my employees were incapable of doing fractions or decimals.) This was for a job that any eight grade graduate of my mother's era could have **easily** done!

If someone could have shown that they pasted the AP exam in history, English, calculus, chemistry, or other similar exams, I absolutely would have given them an interview without having a high school diploma or community college courses.

The point is, that there are likely many employers who are in similar situations. They really don't care about the degree awarded. They merely want smart and motivated employees. Most work done in the U.S. is exactly that type of work.

46 posted on 11/29/2011 9:48:15 AM PST by wintertime (I am a Constitutional Restorationist!!! Yes!)
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To: wolfman23601
Right, because exposure to arts and sciences, history, literature and critical thinking would pay no dividends in raising children < /sarcasm >

IMHO, it's a great investment for a mother. BTW, my wife is home with the kids, and I met her in college, so maybe I'm biased. I see the value anyway.

47 posted on 11/29/2011 9:51:50 AM PST by Jack of all Trades (Hold your face to the light, even though for the moment you do not see.)
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To: wolfman23601

Verizon requires a college degree for new sales associates. Not that the degree conveys any special skills, but in this economy they can pick and it’s a simple filter to weed out the numbest of the numbskulls.


48 posted on 11/29/2011 10:03:52 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Ceterum autem censeo, Obama delenda est.)
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To: ctdonath2

Given current societal trends - you are spot on.

Which will be more in demand - club director for insanely stupid trendy crap - or tool and die manufacturer/mfg engineer?

Easy one.

The first is a growth industry.


49 posted on 11/29/2011 10:07:32 AM PST by Eldon Tyrell
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To: GeronL

Fine. However gratuitous it may be, if someone is willing to shell out that kind of money for it, more power to Harvard for providing the very best education therein money can buy. Yes, supply and demand. There’s a whole lotta high quality useless stuff out there, and I don’t begrudge anyone doing a good job creating it and charging what willing buyers will spend.

OWS demanding the rest of us pay for it, well, that’s a different story. Don’t conflate the issues.


50 posted on 11/29/2011 10:49:50 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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