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Sens. Paul, McCain clash over terrorist detainee amendment
The Hill ^ | 11/29/2011 | Josiah Ryan

Posted on 11/29/2011 10:02:26 AM PST by B Knotts

Republican Sens. Rand Paul (Ky.) and John McCain (Ariz.) battled on the Senate floor Tuesday over a proposed amendment to the pending defense authorization bill that could allow American citizens who are suspected of terrorism to be denied a civilian trial.

Paul argued the amendment, which is cosponsored by McCain, "puts every single American citizen at risk" and suggested that if the amendment passes, "the terrorists have won."

“Should we err today and remove some of the most important checks on state power in the name of fighting terrorism, well then the terrorists have won," Paul argued, "[D]etaining American citizens without a court trial is not American."

(Excerpt) Read more at thehill.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: mccain; rand; terrorism; trials
Weren't the Bill of Rights added to the Constitution to prevent just this sort of thing?
1 posted on 11/29/2011 10:02:36 AM PST by B Knotts
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To: B Knotts

Of course they “clashed”! It’s American Patriot vs Traitor. What do you expect?


2 posted on 11/29/2011 10:06:11 AM PST by albie
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To: B Knotts

I always knew McCain was a RINO but until now I had never conceived what a fascist he was.


3 posted on 11/29/2011 10:06:52 AM PST by circlecity
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To: B Knotts

The Occupy Wall Street ‘protesters’ look like terrorists to me...

But I am afraid the TEA party looks like terrorists to the Obama admin (and I think they even said so)

McCain should be ashamed of himself for sponsoring this


4 posted on 11/29/2011 10:07:32 AM PST by Mr. K (Physically unable to proofreed <--- oops, see?)
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To: B Knotts

Do you really consider ANY terrorist a citizen? These terrorists mock our courts.


5 posted on 11/29/2011 10:09:45 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Mr. K

Exactly. “Suspecting” someone of terrorism is not a very high bar. Anyone can “suspect” anyone of anything.


6 posted on 11/29/2011 10:10:44 AM PST by B Knotts (Just another Tenther)
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To: B Knotts

When it comes to McCain, one must always keep in mind that he is the enemy of the U.S. Citizen. End of story...


7 posted on 11/29/2011 10:11:28 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: Sacajaweau

So, you want to just skip the trial and let the government presume guilt?

You may be the next to be “suspected.”


8 posted on 11/29/2011 10:12:59 AM PST by B Knotts (Just another Tenther)
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To: circlecity

McCain is NO longer a RINO - he’s a facist traitor to his country. What the Hell is he thinking giving over that type of power to the executive office? Especially this particular executive who will use the power against HIS enemies, and not enemies of the U.S.


9 posted on 11/29/2011 10:14:07 AM PST by SoldierDad (Proud dad of an Army Soldier currently deployed in the Valley of Death, Afghanistan)
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To: DoughtyOne

This is why The Lefty Media CHOSE McCain as the Republican candidate last time around- and a great reminder of why we can NOT let them pick Romney this time.

McLame was losing the primaries last time around, until he finally won ONE- and the media declared it was all over.


10 posted on 11/29/2011 10:14:16 AM PST by Mr. K (Physically unable to proofreed <--- oops, see?)
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To: B Knotts

‘”An individual, no matter who they are, if they pose a threat to the security of the United States of America, should not be allowed to continue that threat,” said McCain. “ We need to take every stop necessary to prevent that from happening, that’s for the safety and security of the men and women who are out there risking their lives ... in our armed services.”’

Its unclear from McCains argument how denying due process would make us any safer. For an American citizen simply arrest them, deny bond if that applies and have a trial. Nothing’s broken so why is he trying to ‘fix’ it? Whats he is suggesting is completely unconstitutional. Thx AZ for giving this guy another term. We’re all going to have to suffer under his silliness.


11 posted on 11/29/2011 10:14:16 AM PST by 556x45
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To: B Knotts

I don’t want these people declaring my country a combat zone UNTIL they are willing to explain to me EXACTLY who our enemy is.


12 posted on 11/29/2011 10:16:09 AM PST by DManA
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To: B Knotts

not that I support that this is Constitutional or not, it really is unnecessary.

We can prosecute American citizens in a public court, as we always have.


13 posted on 11/29/2011 10:16:31 AM PST by camp_steveo
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To: B Knotts

The left went nuts when we tried to deny Constitutional rights to foreign terrorists but its okay to deny them to American citizens??


14 posted on 11/29/2011 10:16:31 AM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: 556x45

Ultimately, it’s a form of elitism that is somewhat like the divine right of kings. He’s comfortable with making those types of decisions, because he truly believes he and his fellow elites are perfectly capable of omniscience.

The truth is, these guys are about as far from omniscient as you can get.


15 posted on 11/29/2011 10:18:22 AM PST by B Knotts (Just another Tenther)
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To: albie

Which one are you saying is the traitor?


16 posted on 11/29/2011 10:19:48 AM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: Sacajaweau
Do you really consider ANY terrorist a citizen? These terrorists mock our courts.

Our Constitution wasn't written so that the party in power at any particular time can cherry-pick the requirements needed to arrest an individual under military jurisdiction. A United States Citizen while in United States territory should NEVER be subject to military arrest and/or military trial at the whim of the government, regardless of what they have been accused of.

17 posted on 11/29/2011 10:20:27 AM PST by SoldierDad (Proud dad of an Army Soldier currently deployed in the Valley of Death, Afghanistan)
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To: SoldierDad

Well said. I have no great objection with detaining citizens engaged in terrorism abroad, who are on the battlefield, so to speak. Try them in a military tribunal.

But when it comes to detaining citizens without trial in the U.S., that is a step too far.


18 posted on 11/29/2011 10:23:49 AM PST by B Knotts (Just another Tenther)
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To: B Knotts

Was the Mad Hatter ever an asset to the country?


19 posted on 11/29/2011 10:25:55 AM PST by School of Rational Thought
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To: B Knotts
There will be a lot of silence about this on talk radio. Even Constitution expert Mark Levin won't discuss it because the big $$$ chickenhawks @ Heritage, Claremont, etc. are statists who support atrocities like this.

I hope I'm wrong.

20 posted on 11/29/2011 10:28:10 AM PST by Forgotten Amendments
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To: B Knotts
There will be a lot of silence about this on talk radio. Even Constitution expert Mark Levin won't discuss it because the big $$$ chickenhawks @ Heritage, Claremont, etc. are statists who support atrocities like this.

I hope I'm wrong.

21 posted on 11/29/2011 10:28:47 AM PST by Forgotten Amendments
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To: 556x45

Every one of the founding fathers was a terrorist by this modern definition.


22 posted on 11/29/2011 10:31:12 AM PST by Soul of the South (When times are tough the tough get going.)
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To: Mr. K

Yep, I agree.


23 posted on 11/29/2011 10:35:25 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Romney, Newt, any chance whatsoever you might sometime pander to U.S. Citizens vs the illegals?)
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To: B Knotts

Good to see Sen. Paul standing up for liberty. The neo-cons are a threat to liberty. Newt’s policies will make McCain look like Patrick Henry.


24 posted on 11/29/2011 10:46:22 AM PST by Huck (LIBERTY is the object.)
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To: B Knotts

Having made my earlier statement, I would like to add the caveat that any recently naturalized citizen (since 9/11/01 perhaps) who later, if found to have had ties to a terrorist organization, and has or is actively plotting terrorist acts against U.S. citizens, maybe should be disqualified as being a U.S. citizen, and be bound over to the military. There should be protections against our enemies using citizenship as a shield to cover their actions against us. However, this issue revolves around the acquisition of citizenship for the purpose of evasion, and is not equivalent to being a citizen who is accused of plotting acts of terror. The loss of citizenship, though, should be, if appropriate, accomplished through our civilian system, not a military system. Just a thought.


25 posted on 11/29/2011 10:46:28 AM PST by SoldierDad (Proud dad of an Army Soldier currently deployed in the Valley of Death, Afghanistan)
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To: DManA

The enemy is white Christians in the minds of the DHS.


26 posted on 11/29/2011 10:54:05 AM PST by VicVega (Geaux LSU, Geaux Saints)
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To: School of Rational Thought
"Mad Hatter"

Not sure if he is an asset to the Country, but surely Les Miles of LSU has done an outstanding job coaching their football team.

Geaux LSU

27 posted on 11/29/2011 10:56:17 AM PST by VicVega (Geaux LSU, Geaux Saints)
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To: Soul of the South

Brilliant


28 posted on 11/29/2011 11:18:25 AM PST by nkycincinnatikid
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To: Mr. K
How do you shame a would be dictator?

The people of Arizona must like him because they reelected him again.

29 posted on 11/29/2011 11:32:03 AM PST by chainsaw (Sarah Palin would be my first choice. .)
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To: circlecity

Once again, the people of AZ have struck out.


30 posted on 11/29/2011 11:52:08 AM PST by Theodore R. (Forget the others: It's Santorum's turn, articulate, passionate, less baggage.)
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To: B Knotts
Does anyone really believe that the citizens of Arizona actually reelected this traitor jackass? I don't and the fact that McAmnesty is still in elected office indicates how corrupt our system of government has become. I agree with Sarah Palin when she stated to rid DC of corruption the removal of every elected official needs to be swift and thorough. That better happen before they pass laws that protects themselves thus allowing the government to incarcerate any of us on mere suspicion of being a terrorist patriot.
31 posted on 11/29/2011 12:16:17 PM PST by drypowder
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To: B Knotts
>>So, you want to just skip the trial and let the government presume guilt?<<

Can you imagine what this would look like if passed?

Images of midnight raids on homes, doors being caved in, flash bangs, a hoard of black clad men storming the home.

Dad being dragged out of the home, cache of weapons (.22LR and a 9mm pistol) seized, indefinite detention.

This is scary stuff.

32 posted on 11/29/2011 12:30:41 PM PST by servantboy777
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To: GeronL

The “left” denies rights to American citizens every day; the guarantees of the second amendment, the right to property through income taxes, disallow the 11th amendment by letting non citizens sue for damages in civil court, etc.


33 posted on 11/29/2011 1:27:38 PM PST by noprogs (Borders, Language, Culture....all should be preserved)
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To: servantboy777

Agreed.

It’s about as un-American as it gets.


34 posted on 11/29/2011 2:35:26 PM PST by B Knotts (Just another Tenther)
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To: Forgotten Amendments
There will be a lot of silence about this on talk radio.

"Intelligent" Michael Medved today:

Hour 1 - Cain

Hour 2 - Sex addiction

Hour 3 - Baiting some OWS punk.

More bread and circuses for boobs while the republic is murdered.

35 posted on 11/29/2011 2:58:07 PM PST by Forgotten Amendments
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To: B Knotts

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/29/senate-defies-obama-veto-threat-terrorist-custody-/

Is Obama on the right side on this? The link I’m posting is written in a confused manner, but it sounds like Obama, Paul and I are all on the same side.

First time ever.


36 posted on 11/29/2011 4:35:43 PM PST by samtheman
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