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Republicans back payroll tax cut extension
Reuters ^ | 2011-11-29 | Richard Cowan

Posted on 11/29/2011 4:54:09 PM PST by rabscuttle385

WASHINGTON, Nov 29 (Reuters) - Republicans in the U.S. Congress on Tuesday threw their support behind a payroll tax cut extension, trying to blunt charges ahead of 2012 elections of favoring wealthy Americans over middle-class workers.

Until Tuesday, Republicans had been lukewarm on extending President Barack Obama's payroll tax cut for workers, indicating they were open to negotiating it but never explicitly backing a measure, which the White House says will boost the country's sputtering economic recovery.

(snip)

"In all likelihood we will agree to continue the current payroll tax relief for another year," Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell said after a closed-door meeting of his colleagues.

McConnell said there was now "a majority sentiment" among Republicans for continuing the temporary tax cut.

(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 112th; 2012elections; bho44; biggovernment; congress; gop; mcconnell; medicare; obama; socialsecurity; taxes

1 posted on 11/29/2011 4:54:17 PM PST by rabscuttle385
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To: rabscuttle385

Thank goodness. I don’t vote GOP in order for money to be taken out of my paycheck. This lower tax rate for the Social Security Ponzi program should be made PERMANENT. That’ll put more pressure on them to start doing what’s needed: cut gov’t spending.


2 posted on 11/29/2011 4:56:27 PM PST by WilliamIII
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To: WilliamIII
pressure on them to start doing what’s needed: cut gov’t spending.

Right. Any minute now.

3 posted on 11/29/2011 5:08:21 PM PST by M. Thatcher
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To: WilliamIII
That’ll put more pressure on them to start doing what’s needed: cut gov’t spending

Say what? That money is presumably your insurance premium.

If they give in here, theyll give in anywhere. Absolutely disgusting and cowardly.

4 posted on 11/29/2011 5:14:08 PM PST by Nonstatist
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To: Nonstatist

Social Security taxes aren’t an “insurance premium”. They’re payments into a ponzi scheme. Let me keep the money I earn and invest it my self, not have sucked into a fraudulent scheme that spends it as soon as the tax is collected.

As I mentioned on another thread, any freeper who really believes he or she isn’t paying enough to the federal government, is free to send in more money, voluntarily. Count me out - my family and I can’t afford to be so generous to the feds and the Social Security ponzi fraud.


5 posted on 11/29/2011 5:19:02 PM PST by WilliamIII
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To: rabscuttle385

Go ahead, drive the Ponzi deeper into the red. Why the hell not... it’s just Monopoly money.


6 posted on 11/29/2011 5:19:26 PM PST by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard (Some men just want to watch the world burn.)
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To: Nonstatist

The sooner we realize we have a one party system. the sooner we can go about fixing it.


7 posted on 11/29/2011 5:21:14 PM PST by cableguymn
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To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

If you’re young and counting on Social Security for your retirement, think again.

We’re better off being allowed to keep the money in our paycheck and investing it ourselves. Social Security doesn’t invest our money, it spends it on today’s government programs. The whole thing is a fraud, and the less I’m forced to pay into it, the better.


8 posted on 11/29/2011 5:22:22 PM PST by WilliamIII
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To: Nonstatist

If they give in here

You mean, if they don’t force me to surrender more of my paycheck to the Social Security fraud fund?

Unlike you, that won’t disgust me, that’ll make me and my kids happy. I’ll have $1000 more for savings, instead of $1000 lifted out of my paycheck and sent into the federal government’s black hole.


9 posted on 11/29/2011 5:25:22 PM PST by WilliamIII
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To: rabscuttle385
This is the one of the most dishonest articles I have read in a long time.

This is what is really happening. The politicians have created a fraudulent Ponzi scheme and called it Social Security. In 1966 LBJ created the unified budget in which the annual surpluses contributed to Social Security were used in the general fund. The government kept track of how much Social Security money was given the the general fund. They called this amount the Social Security Trust Fund. It is about $35 trillion.

In the last 11 months Social Security outflows have been greater than inflows. Social Security is effectively bankrupt and the only reason checks continue to go out is the government borrows more money.

The so called “payroll tax” that the article refers to are actually contributions to the Social Security. The irresponsible politicians are making a fraudulent scheme that elderly Americans depend on for living expenses even more underfunded. It will make it run out of money sooner. None of these politicians who claim credit for the “payroll tax cut” will ever take responsibility when Social Security becomes insolvent. When the elderly have no source of income and face insolvency and starvation no politician will be said to be responsible.

Social Security needs to be reformed, restructured and put on sound financial footing. Reducing Social Security contributions will only make things worse.

10 posted on 11/29/2011 5:37:04 PM PST by detective
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To: WilliamIII
Social Security taxes aren’t an “insurance premium”. They’re payments into a ponzi scheme. Let me keep the money I earn and invest it my self, not have sucked into a fraudulent scheme that spends it as soon as the tax is collected.

As I mentioned on another thread, any freeper who really believes he or she isn’t paying enough to the federal government, is free to send in more money, voluntarily. Count me out - my family and I can’t afford to be so generous to the feds and the Social Security ponzi fraud.

Thank you. You are exactly correct.

What conservative in his right mind would oppose extending this tax cut? Hell, if Obama wants to cut it still further, we should one up him and propose an even deeper cut. Social Security is indeed nothing but a ponzi scheme. I'd prefer to invest my own money, thank you very much. We would be INSANE to put ourselves in a position to oppose this payroll tax cut extension. It would make the Democrats the party of tax cuts for every worker, and the Republicans the party of increased worker taxes.

11 posted on 11/29/2011 5:39:53 PM PST by Longbow1969
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To: detective

The trust fund is about 2.3 trillion not 35 trillion


12 posted on 11/29/2011 5:59:33 PM PST by kushnejz (Boehner shopuld forc3e)
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To: WilliamIII

I think if we each hold our breath, you while waiting for spending cuts and me while waiting for default, I’ll have better odds.


13 posted on 11/29/2011 6:06:20 PM PST by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
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To: WilliamIII

A bigger ponzi scheme is our debt. We’ll be over 90% of GDP before the next president signs his first budget. We’ll be default at around 120%, probably in his first term.


14 posted on 11/29/2011 6:09:14 PM PST by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
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To: rabscuttle385

“payroll tax cut”

I will never get that. What it really is, is a cut in the Social Security Tax. Social security is now in the red. So this “cut” means that more money needs to be borrowed to pay out Social security. Both now and in the future. Instead of fixing social security they actually made it more insolvent by this move. Not that it matters that much. The whole system is going to collapse in the weight of borrowed debt anyways.


15 posted on 11/29/2011 6:18:34 PM PST by Revel
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To: rabscuttle385
Purely political. These temporary measures do little for the economy. This is about the election, fine.

At this rate, however, when will we they end this temporary payroll tax holiday and start funding social security at full strength again? People won't be too happy.

16 posted on 11/29/2011 6:22:04 PM PST by newzjunkey (Republicans will find a way to reelect Obama and Speaker Pelosi.)
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To: Longbow1969

Social security has not added one single dollar to the deficit. If something isn’t done it will soon be adding to our debt, and reducing the payroll tax without making fundamental changes to the program will only speed that day’s arrival.


17 posted on 11/29/2011 6:23:39 PM PST by csmusaret (The only borders Obama has closed is a bookstore.)
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To: rabscuttle385

And for the other side of the story, which will allow the the Dems to still claim the Republicans are cheating lower incomes in favor of the rich:
“”The Democrats’ bill would extend and expand last year’s tax break. Payroll taxes, cut to 4.2 % from 6.2% last year, would be lowered to 3.1%. That would provide middle class families with up to $1,500 more in their paychecks next year, Democrats said. Democrats would also partially extend the break to employers, hoping that might spur hiring. The price tag of the bill is about $265 billion, according to aides.

“”Democrats want to pay for it with a 3.25% surtax on annual income over $1 million, and they sense they have the political advantage on the issue.””

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/29/gop-backs-payroll-tax-extension-but-rejects-surtax-on-millionaires/


18 posted on 11/29/2011 6:24:47 PM PST by hocndoc (WingRight.org Have mustard seed: Will use. Cut spending, cut spending, cut spending, now,now,now!)
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To: csmusaret
Social security has not added one single dollar to the deficit.

Not true. Social Security will run a $150 billion cash flow deficit this year. Social Security will become a major force in future deficits. The baby boom retirement has just begun. In 10 years, Social Security will run a very large cash flow deficit as though $150 billion today is not a large deficit.
19 posted on 11/29/2011 6:38:06 PM PST by businessprofessor
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To: WilliamIII
I don’t vote GOP in order for money to be taken out of my paycheck. This lower tax rate for the Social Security Ponzi program should be made PERMANENT. That’ll put more pressure on them to start doing what’s needed: cut gov’t spending.

You are falling for the rat trap. The rats have no intention to reduce government spending (except defense). They are absolutely opposed to any entitlement reform except for increasing taxes on the most productive. The rats want to establish the new lower rate as the norm and then increase taxes on the most productive through income and payroll tax surcharges. With 50 percent of voters already paying no federal income taxes (many in this group receive tax welfare), this reduction will just increase demands for more government services because the majority will pay even lower taxes.
20 posted on 11/29/2011 6:43:45 PM PST by businessprofessor
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To: businessprofessor

In years past SS ran surpluses which are now being depleted at an alarming rate as you indicate. As yet however, they are still a surplus so SS has NOT added to our deficit. It certainly will if something isn’t done soon. The government doesn’t have the money to repay what it has borrowed (some would say stolen) from those surpluses, and that is what makes many people believe SS is already adding to our debt.


21 posted on 11/29/2011 6:45:27 PM PST by csmusaret (The only borders Obama has closed is a bookstore.)
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To: csmusaret

You are misinformed. The only accounting that matters is cash flow. Until about 2 years ago, SS ran a cash flow surplus. It is now running a deep, cash flow deficit partially because of the payroll tax reduction. Do not be confused by trust funds and intra government borrowing. Cash flow is the only method to understand SS accounting.


22 posted on 11/29/2011 6:48:49 PM PST by businessprofessor
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To: businessprofessor

As yet SS has not spent more than it has taken in.


23 posted on 11/29/2011 6:56:11 PM PST by csmusaret (The only borders Obama has closed is a bookstore.)
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To: newzjunkey
People won't be too happy.

I'm quite happy, but then again, I'm using the extra 3 percent to pad my 401k and IRAs.

24 posted on 11/29/2011 8:26:59 PM PST by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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To: csmusaret
As yet SS has not spent more than it has taken in.

You are spreading misinformation. Here is an article discussing the cash flow situation with SS. You are counting phony intra government interest payments. These interest payments are not cash flow. SS has no assets. It only has the payroll taxes collected.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/cash-flow-is-only-true-measure-of-social-security/2011/05/16/AFvDjB5G_story.html
25 posted on 11/29/2011 8:40:04 PM PST by businessprofessor
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To: WilliamIII
You mean, if they don’t force me to surrender more of my paycheck to the Social Security fraud fund? Unlike you, that won’t disgust me, that’ll make me and my kids happy.

If they give up on the pretense that this is "insurance" then its nothing more than welfare and it ought to be means tested and the payout age ought to be pushed back until its solvent, say to age 73 or so.

This is one of those Ponzi Schemes that people are going to go ballistic over when they "find out" its just welfare.

BTW, about half the country pays for SS but not income taxes. Yea , lets get rid of this and just crank taxes up on the "rich", thats the ticket. Wont that be great for the "economy" ?!

26 posted on 11/29/2011 8:58:08 PM PST by Nonstatist
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To: MontaniSemperLiberi

A bigger ponzi scheme is our debt.

So you want to raise taxes to pay for our debt?


27 posted on 11/29/2011 9:00:45 PM PST by WilliamIII
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To: businessprofessor

The fact that the Dems don’t want to cut spending isn’t a reason to end the Bush tax cuts, and it isn’t a reason to make me pay more money into the Social Security Ponzi scheme, either.


28 posted on 11/29/2011 9:03:03 PM PST by WilliamIII
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To: csmusaret

You’re making Nancy Pelosi’s argument for higher taxes — if we don’t raise taxes we’ll have more debt!

I don’t buy her argument for ending Bush tax cuts, and I don’t buy the same argument when it says I have to pay more out of my paycheck, for SS taxes.


29 posted on 11/29/2011 9:05:55 PM PST by WilliamIII
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To: detective

So explain why you think I should be forced to pay more out of my salary into the “Social Security System”?

Unlike a private retirement account or annuity, Social Security is not an investment fund and Congress could end payouts at any time, with no liability to any taxpayer for reimbursement. It’s an income transfer program; the money goes in and is spent immediately. You’re paying taxes without creating any legally guaranteed equity or assured return. It’s a fraud, or a mirage to be generous.

Let me keep the money I earn, so I can invest in a REAL retirement account.

The fact that Obama and Reid are for a tax cut doesn’t mean I’m going to say “no” to keeping more of the money I earned for myself and my family. If Obama and Reid told you your nose was pretty, would you cut it off to spite them?


30 posted on 11/29/2011 9:18:22 PM PST by WilliamIII
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To: rabscuttle385

Ridiculous. This is another scam and fiscally reckless policy.


31 posted on 11/29/2011 9:19:11 PM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: WilliamIII

?????? This is a moronic policy. Unless you cut benes you can’t cut the funding. This is fiscal recklessness.


32 posted on 11/29/2011 9:21:04 PM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: detective

Bingo - this is bi partisan fiscal criminality.


33 posted on 11/29/2011 9:22:46 PM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: GlockThe Vote; WilliamIII
Unless you cut benes you can’t cut the funding. This is fiscal recklessness.

You might as well be talking to a wall, Willie dont get it. The Democraps will cut SS taxes and replace them with more "progressive" income taxes, and when SS starts to go bankrupt they will means test it and remove the cap for paying into it, giving us the highest top marginal taxes in the world. Spending will never be reduced. This is only the first step, Obama knows where hes going, numbnutzes like Willie havent a clue, tho.

34 posted on 11/29/2011 9:44:10 PM PST by Nonstatist
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To: GlockThe Vote; WilliamIII; qam1
Unless you cut benes you can’t cut the funding.

Yes, we can.

35 posted on 11/29/2011 10:00:48 PM PST by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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To: rabscuttle385

Ridiculous. That’s ponzinomics. Sorry , whoever s feeding you that carp is delusional. Its basic math. With more people collecting than ever, and less paying in, doing this only makes problem worse. We need to cut the benes, promises, and taxes, not just the taxes. That’s pure idiocy.


36 posted on 11/29/2011 10:15:56 PM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: WilliamIII
If you believe the Social Security program is going to become insolvent in the next few years no matter what happens then you are right. If you believe that no matter how much people pay in to Social Security the government will pay out nothing then it makes sense to reduce payments to zero and just let the system fail.

For people who are retired or near retirement this “payroll tax cut” will make the system become insolvent sooner. It will also make the problem more difficult to fix.

If the elderly have their Social Security income taken away do you really think the politicians will not blame people such as you and I and call us greedy and demand to confiscate more of our hard earned money?

37 posted on 11/30/2011 5:09:52 AM PST by detective
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To: kushnejz
You are right. I overestimated a little but more importantly I neglected to put in the decimal point.

Good catch.

38 posted on 11/30/2011 5:18:30 AM PST by detective
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To: businessprofessor

I think you are counting government borrowing from SS as spending by SS. Of course SS needs to be ended or amended ASAP, but to blame that program for our current deficit problems is just wrong.


39 posted on 11/30/2011 5:34:16 AM PST by csmusaret (The only borders Obama has closed is a bookstore.)
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To: WilliamIII

Who doesn’t want to pay off their debts? Thieves?


40 posted on 11/30/2011 5:35:57 AM PST by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
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To: WilliamIII

You haven’t made an argument for changing the benefits paid by SS (spending) just cutting the program’s tax revenue. If you want one you should at least advocate for the other.


41 posted on 11/30/2011 5:38:52 AM PST by csmusaret (The only borders Obama has closed is a bookstore.)
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To: csmusaret

I am not counting the borrowing as spending. I am just counting cash flow: benefits paid versus payroll taxes received. To assert that SS does not have a cash flow deficit, you are counting phony interest payments as in flow.


42 posted on 11/30/2011 6:25:49 AM PST by businessprofessor
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To: businessprofessor

Benefits paid versus payroll taxes received over the life of the program result in a surplus. That surplus will soon turn into a deficit, but as for now Social Security has not added one dollar to our National debt.


43 posted on 11/30/2011 7:05:43 AM PST by csmusaret (The only borders Obama has closed is a bookstore.)
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To: csmusaret

You are spreading misinformation. The life of the program does not matter. The dollars have already been spent. The life of the program would matter if SS had assets. It does not have assets. The cash flow is now negative about $150 billion. SS is just one of many runaway entitlements.

You have a moral claim to benefits. So what. A moral claim does not mean that the benefits can be paid. The government is broke including SS benefits.


44 posted on 11/30/2011 7:15:04 AM PST by businessprofessor
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To: businessprofessor

You have a moral claim to benefits. So what. A moral claim does not mean that the benefits can be paid. The government is broke including SS benefits.

I agree with that statement, but Social Security has not yet added one dollar to our National debt.


45 posted on 11/30/2011 7:22:19 AM PST by csmusaret (The only borders Obama has closed is a bookstore.)
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To: csmusaret

Yes it has. This year, SS has a cash flow deficit. I believe there was a cash flow deficit in 2009 and 2010 also. SS is now adding to the debt and annual deficit. Government accounting is so phony that I am not sure the status of any program matters. The cumulative impact of uncontrolled government spending will come crashing down when the dollar is devalued. SS and many other programs will be impacted. There will be blood in the streets.


46 posted on 11/30/2011 8:24:12 AM PST by businessprofessor
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To: businessprofessor

Once again I agree with half of your statement. Have a good day.


47 posted on 11/30/2011 9:56:54 AM PST by csmusaret (The only borders Obama has closed is a bookstore.)
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